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lutfi
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:33 pm

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:25 pm

Agree, it is unfair calling Indonesia a banana republic. That would be giving the agriculture ministry too much credit! In Thailand, the govt gives huge support (education, export advice, breeding programmes etc.) to banana farmers, as well as durian, manggis, mango, any type of farming. IDO has the perfect climate for fruit farming, yet exports are far far below say, Thailand. Sugar cane yields are now lower than they were in the 1920's...

Yes, Thailand has its problems. But the difference I think is that in Thailand, the "elite" really do care about the country and its people. In Indonesia, too many of the elite act the same way as the tax farmers in the old Dutch days.

E.g. the bird flu scandal, when the agriculture dept acted with pharmaceutical firms to vaccinate chickens with, basically, water.

I love the country, which is why I am so critical.
 
aidan
Posts: 30
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:39 pm

Lutfi, I love China also, but appreciate if you keep the discussion on the subject.

Because is so easy to spot somebody elses flaw than your own.

[Edited 2007-01-08 07:41:34]
 
a3
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:24 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:33 pm

Quoting Aidan (Reply 95):
My point is simple.

Simplified yes, simple no…….

Unfortunately when several bad things happen in your country, describing the reasons by someone that sees the things from some more distance (more then a native can have) and tries to explain what is wrong is note by default attack.

To me what HB-IWC is doing is showing his interest and care to the country he works. I can understand his frustration when he is witnessing all these catastrophes happening and seeing no action to prevent any more future ones.

I think that if you try to see the situation from his point of view, then there will be no difference in your posts because you both care for this country and its people.
Needless to say that personally I am very sorry that all these people (ship , plane…) lost their lives such way.
Don't spend your money on airlines that don't respect your business.
 
PHKLM
Posts: 788
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:23 pm

Quoting A3 (Reply 102):
I think that if you try to see the situation from his point of view, then there will be no difference in your posts because you both care for this country and its people.

You cannot blame people for being proud of their nations; I think a lot of countries have a period in their history that is characterized by events we later feel ashamed of; Chile has Pinochet, Argentina has the Dirty War, the US has Vietnam, Belgium has Congo, the Netherlands Suriname/Indonesia, Germany WWII, France Mururoa, and I could continue here for some time.

Now my point is; because of these mishaps, are all the people living in those countries wrong or a fool? We in the Western world, or the developed countries for that matter, are no better than people living in developed countries; I read in the Washington Post than almost 30.000 people die in the US every year because of obesity - that's 300 AdamAir flights - and this is as much as a cultural problem then it is a individual problem.

So yes, Indonesia might be going thru a period of corruption and internal problems, but it does not mean the country is doomed forever and all the people living in Indonesia are bad. I do not claim HB-IWC and the likes have been saying this; their point of view was mainly related to aviation, but if you start calling countries banana republics you are asking for replies like Aidan gave.
For us it might seem odd to rely on religion when a 734 is missing, but to me it seems odd to drink and then drive while thousands of people do it (or even fly for that matter  Wink ) - guys, we're all different and I'm glad about it because it makes our world a whole lot more interesting.
 
a3
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:24 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:37 pm

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 103):
You cannot blame people for being proud of their nations;

Are you referring to my post???

If its so, you got it wrong.
I say exactly the opposite.
I only point out that they both care for that country but they approach the matter from different point of view.
Don't spend your money on airlines that don't respect your business.
 
YLWbased
Posts: 905
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:09 pm

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:52 pm

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 103):

I totally agree with you. welcome to my RR list.

And from my heart to all indonesian, i love your country and i love your culture! Every country got its own problem, even the developed first world nation. If it is far to call Indonesia the "Banana Republic" ( which it is not ture, i could hardly find any good bananas in indonesia), then would it be fair to call the US of A the "United States of Criminals? I was born and raise in a first world, Hong Kong. I studied in a first world, Canada. I work in a first world, Japan and S. Korea. But i had never heard "gun shooting killing 2 in schools", "i'm must lock my door at night while i'm driving downtown, i might get rob" anywhere else besides USA. All i'm trying to say is, every country got is own problem, so let their own people deal with it. I love Indonesian as much as i love americans, so don't take me wrong that i'm going against the US.

At last, i would like you all the listen to my little request. Could we all just put the anger and hateness here, shake hands and all be good a.net friends again?

May be i'm a little off topic here, but that kind of anger and hateness only generates war at the very end.

Should all of you allow me to quote a song lyric here,
"There comes a time
When we head a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
And it's time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all"

Timmi
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
 
PHKLM
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:24 pm

Quoting A3 (Reply 104):
Quoting PHKLM (Reply 103):
You cannot blame people for being proud of their nations;

Are you referring to my post???

Sorry A3; I should have quoted HB-IWC - because my main argument refers to his posts. Sorry once again.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4110
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:12 pm

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 105):
At last, i would like you all the listen to my little request. Could we all just put the anger and hateness here, shake hands and all be good a.net friends again?

I don't know what everyone is really getting excited about. I don't have any personal issues with anyone in this discussion, and those of you who can not separate the points I am trying to make from a personal attack, or the messenger from the message, for that matter, should really grow some balls.

The fact is - and that has been the point that I have been trying to make all along - that the current sad state of affairs, both on the Indonesian civil aviation scene at large and in the ongoing search and rescue debacle for the missing airliner, is directly related to a number of issues, including endemic corruption, a lack of human resources and years of inadequate investment in infrastructure which are rampant in all parts of Indonesian society. Is that a direct attack on the country at its citizens? I don't think so, because anyone who reads Indonesian newspapers on a regular basis will see that I am just stating facts here.

I believe it is impossible to truly grasp the wheelings and dealings leading up to the disaster that we have been discussing for a week now, without having access to at least some basic information about how the country is being run and how the airline industry is being organized and supervised.

Surely, the truth may be somewhat unsettling, and I would imagine that some of you involved in this discussion would rather not have some of the issues I have been raising spread out in the open here. But, at the end of the day, it is still the truth. Anyone who really wants to understand the poisoning of a human rights activist on board a Garuda aircraft, the crash of an overloaded Mandala aircraft in Medan or the mysterious disappearing of and Adam Air 737 will not get around dealing with these facts.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4110
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:19 pm

Metal objects detected to the West of Sulawesi Island

In a discovery that might represent a breakthrough in the current search operation for the missing Adam Air aircraft, it has been reported in the local media that American detection equipment has picked up signs of metal objects, possibly part of the missing jetliner in the waters immediately to the West of the Island of Sulawesi. Indonesian warships are currently on their way to the place indicated by the Americans in hopes of finally locating the position of the missing plane.
 
ANother
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:36 pm

Finally some news: BBC
 
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jetfuel
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:29 pm

It's the Indonesian navy saying they have found in three locations, within a several kilometer radius and at a depth of 1,500 meters to 2,000 meters, large metal objects. Let's hope its not a wild goose chase again. I am sure many who are grieving want closure but doubt that such information would be released without some certainty that the discovery is related to the 737
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2100
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:50 pm

i just found out that TK is giving some of their -400s to Adam Air, that explains why i saw one fully painted in front of our MX hangar on the 1st of this month, and i took a pic of it too...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
Blasphemystic
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:48 pm

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:12 pm

Could this plane have came down for the same reasons as the TWA flight 800?
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2100
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:18 pm

what was the previous registration of this a/c?
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
a3
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:24 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 113):
what was the previous registration of this a/c?

07/11/1992 British Airways G-BNNL
19/03/1995 GB Airways G-BNNL
06/04/2001 National Jets Italy G-BNNL
26/02/2002 WFBN N112TR
04/03/2002 Air One EI-CXH
11/12/2002 JAT YU-AOO
01/12/2005 AdamAir PK-KKW


Here you are.
Rgds
Don't spend your money on airlines that don't respect your business.
 
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jetfuel
Posts: 1078
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:08 am

http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news.php?id=240208


"....The metal is reportedly at a depth of more than 1,000 metres, about two nautical miles north of Tanjung Rengas, Mamuju, in southern Selatan.......................... after learning from two fishermen that they had seen a plane flying low over the waters."

Quoting Blasphemystic (Reply 112):

I guess anything is possible but in flight break up or fuel exhaustion is more likely
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
laddb
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:18 am

Quoting Blasphemystic (Reply 112):
Could this plane have came down for the same reasons as the TWA flight 800?

You mean a US Navy Missile?  Wink

You are not serious with this question, are you? Back to topic....

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 115):
after learning from two fishermen that they had seen a plane flying low over the waters."

I know, I know - never rely on eye witness accounts. BUT, if this is true, then it rules out flight breakup.
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 115):
Quoting Blasphemystic (Reply 112):


I guess anything is possible but in flight break up or fuel exhaustion is more likely

Exactly. With almost no evidence whatsoever so far, there's not a lot of point in being trying to be too specific or in going for less likely options. We don't even know yet whether it broke up in flight or on impact.
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10812
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting Laddb (Reply 116):
I know, I know - never rely on eye witness accounts. BUT, if this is true, then it rules out flight breakup

It would also potentially rule out these pieces of metal as being the lost aircraft; if it was flying low then how could the wreckage be spread several km apart, in three pieces? Surely such a break-up would also result in substantial scatter of debris over the surface.

Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:43 am




Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 118):
if it was flying low

"Flying low", as defined by two fishermen.

Though their reports are likely more reliable and accurate than those of the Indonesian government, I still wouldn't accept them as fact...


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
Blasphemystic
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:48 pm

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting Laddb (Reply 116):
Quoting Blasphemystic (Reply 112):
Could this plane have came down for the same reasons as the TWA flight 800?

You mean a US Navy Missile?

You are not serious with this question, are you? Back to topic....

NO, I was thinking more like the center fuel tank explosion.

Im sorry you think a missile brought it down..but i really doubt that.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
ConcordeMach2
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:04 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting Blasphemystic (Reply 120):
NO, I was thinking more like the center fuel tank explosion.

Thats exactly what came into my head when I read that. If so, then Boeing would probably have to take a look into the design of the fuel tanks of all its older airliners.
 
zenarcade
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:08 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting ConcordeMach2 (Reply 121):
I was thinking more like the center fuel tank explosion.

I apologize for any future ignorance the next sentense may have.

I thought that distress signals were sent. If distress signals were sent, would'nt that rule out a fuel tank explosion... I guess it could be one of those slow mode movie type explosions.
If a plane falls on the tarmac and no one is there, does it make any sound? - Starlionblue
 
na
Posts: 9830
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting A3 (Reply 114):
Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 113):what was the previous registration of this a/c?
07/11/1992 British Airways G-BNNL
19/03/1995 GB Airways G-BNNL
06/04/2001 National Jets Italy G-BNNL
26/02/2002 WFBN N112TR
04/03/2002 Air One EI-CXH
11/12/2002 JAT YU-AOO
01/12/2005 AdamAir PK-KKW

You forgot the original operator:
1989-1992 Dan Air London G-BNNL

National jets leased the aircraft apparently in full BA colours
Does anyone know if PK-KKW was painted up in the full livery of Adam Air? The only photos around are from last summer, showing just titles and painted engines.
 
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Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2332
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting Zenarcade (Reply 122):
I apologize for any future ignorance the next sentense may have.

I thought that distress signals were sent. If distress signals were sent, would'nt that rule out a fuel tank explosion... I guess it could be one of those slow mode movie type explosions.

According to Mandala499, distress signal were not received. Most likely that means they weren't sent either - there were other planes in the region that would most likely have picked up something.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
ATCGOD
Posts: 519
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:24 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 124):
According to Mandala499, distress signal were not received. Most likely that means they weren't sent either - there were other planes in the region that would most likely have picked up something.

I would have to rule out the center fuel tank explosion based solely on the lack of physical evidence. TWA800 left a massive debris field with burning fuel and smoke. Surely something would have been found if this aircraft broke up in flight. A floating shoe, or papers, something like that. I find the aircraft breaking up in flight theory very hard to believe.

That said, I don't know what the other options would be. If this aircraft exhausted it's fuel and made a water landing, it still would most likely leave some sort of debris field. Probably not as much as if the aircraft broke apart in flight though. Therefore, after making these assumptions and speculations...I'm still thoroughly confused.  Confused
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2100
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:23 am

i fly the 737 and the center fuel tank is only an issue during summer months on the ground for long periods of time and on low-fuel situations....this accident, i hope, had nothing to do with this in my opinion...


rip
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
dallasnewark
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 103):
You cannot blame people for being proud of their nations

Just to be proud without any justificiations is plainly stupid. You need something to be proud of. Is anyone proud of being a fool? I don't think so.

And in the words of Ving Rhames " F**K PRIDE, it only hurts, it never helps"
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
Blasphemystic
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:48 pm

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting Zenarcade (Reply 122):
I apologize for any future ignorance the next sentense may have

If you were following this story closely, you would know that it never did sent any distress signals. It was one of many assumptions made by the Indoneasian goverment who were clueless at first.

Everyone is soo quick to put ppl down on this forum.

I am not an aviation wizard, I come on this forum to share what I might know and learn what I dont.

When I asked if it could be a center fuel tank explosion, I wasnt saying that it was..I was just wondering if that can be a possiblity.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
PHKLM
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 127):
Just to be proud without any justificiations is plainly stupid. You need something to be proud of.

As for nationalism it just takes a passport.
I, for one, was proud sitting on a Fokker 100 in Brazil. I did not have any reason for that, but still it felt special. Now you can call me plainly stupid but I call it quite ignorant when you tell people when to be proud and when not.

On a side note: although it makes me feel very sad for the relatives involved in Indonesia, I really enjoy reading this thread. Good stuff A.netters
 
zenarcade
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:08 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Blasphemystic (Reply 128):
Everyone is soo quick to put ppl down on this forum.

Sorry if my comment appeared to be rude. I'm on day number two of quitting smoking cold turkey.
If a plane falls on the tarmac and no one is there, does it make any sound? - Starlionblue
 
laddb
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:54 am

Quoting Blasphemystic (Reply 120):
NO, I was thinking more like the center fuel tank explosion.

Im sorry you think a missile brought it down..but i really doubt that.

No I don't - that's why I had the smiley face after that.

I did find your assumption that it might be a center fuel tank explosion a bit premature since there is a dearth of information on this tradegedy, and what information there is can not be assumed factual.
 
lostturttle
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 126):
i fly the 737 and the center fuel tank is only an issue during summer months on the ground for long periods of time and on low-fuel situations....this accident, i hope, had nothing to do with this in my opinion...


Last night CNN had a 2 hour special CNN Presents "No Survivors TWA 800" dealing with the center tank explosion. I only caught the last 20 minutes. There is a podcast on the CNN site as well. What I saw dealt with the fact that 10 years on nothing has been done to make current aircraft flying any safer. (all new Boeings by 2008 including 787 will have the new systems in I believe) The industry stated that with new checks and wiring they "only" expected one tank explosion in forty years (think I got that right)

Mid to late 90's I trucked various different fuels including jet A-1. One of the things I was taught was "upper and lower" explosive range. If the gas is too rich or lean combustion can not happen. I never worried about my "nearly" empty tanker truck blowing up around me after sitting in the hot summer sun. Yes I know it is different but I also do not worry about the centre tank below me or the wing tanks exploding. If I did I would not fly, and when I get a bad case of "Rock Fever" I just have to get off de rock!

Back to the topic, I see the lawyers have started already

"Adam Air facing Civil Suit
Adam air, an Indonesian budget carrier, facing civil suit for alleged regulation violation caused the accident of Adam Air Surabaya-Manado Flight on January 1, 2007.

Adam air, an Indonesian budget carrier, facing civil suit for alleged regulation violation caused the accident of Adam Air Surabaya-Manado Flight on January 1, 2007."

http://www.agoravox.com/article.php3?id_article=5461

Did not take them long did it?
 
dallasnewark
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:55 am

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 129):
, for one, was proud sitting on a Fokker 100 in Brazil. I did not have any reason for that, but still it felt special. Now you can call me plainly stupid but I call it quite ignorant when you tell people when to be proud and when not.

When pride interferes with common sense, it is a precursor of stupidity. Why were you proud sitting in a Fokker 100? Any special reasons?

I'll repeat it once more, pride hurts, it never helps. Pride is a trait of people with low self-esteem or the inferiority complex.
B732/3/4/5/6/7/8/9, B742/4, B752/3,B762/3/4, B772/3, A306, A318/9/20/21, A332/3, A343/6, MD80/83/88, L1011, TU104/134, F
 
Blasphemystic
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:48 pm

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting Zenarcade (Reply 130):
Sorry if my comment appeared to be rude. I'm on day number two of quitting smoking cold turkey.

funny you say that, im also trying to quit smoking, its been 3 days...  bomb 

Quoting Laddb (Reply 131):
and what information there is can not be assumed factual.

I never did..all it was...was a suggestion.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
jasond
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:23 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 115):
I guess anything is possible but in flight break up or fuel exhaustion is more likely

Current reports indicate that 'metal' has been found in 3 locations in a radius of 'several kilometres'. An aircraft hitting the water intact would, I assume, result in a much smaller and concentrated debris field i.e MD-11 (Peggy's Cove). Current reports imply (and I use the term loosely), an in-flight breakup.
 
cx777fan
Posts: 304
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:22 pm

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:29 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 126):
i fly the 737 and the center fuel tank is only an issue during summer months on the ground for long periods of time and on low-fuel situations....this accident, i hope, had nothing to do with this in my opinion...

Of course the exploding fuel tank is pure speculation, but the conditions you mention could actually be true in this case. Indonesia straddles the equator so it's always hot. I don't know what the a/c was doing prior to this flight, but I guess it's possible that it was on the ground for quite some time. Low fuel may have been an issue if the plane did lose its way in bad weather as some have speculated and was flying in circles trying to find a familiar landmark. (Though this final scenario has all sorts of holes...it assumes that the on-board nav equipment failed - not without precedent at Adamair - AND that no radio and/or radar contact could be made).

For the sake of the berieved families, I hope a genuine explanation is forthcoming and that the Indonesian authorities make moves to clean up domestic aviation.
 
laddb
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:55 pm

Evidently, the USNS Mary Sears will be getting to the site today (Tuesday) and will begin searching. I've done some operations from that ship and she is only a couple years old and perfect for the task, with some of the best equipment your (USA) tax dollars can buy.  Smile There was no autonomous vehicles when I was on board, and my guess is they will just tow a side scan sonar. This can give a very clear picture of the debris field. Then they will go down with a cabled ROV for video identification.

I've read some reports that say they have found a large metal object. This, coupled with the eyewitness reports of a low flying plane, no floating debris found, could (possibly, maybe, with high chance of error), mean there was a controlled ditching of the plane and it remained largely intact. ?????
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10812
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:17 am

Has there been any report yet on weather the metal objects have been located on the sea bed and if they are any wiser as to their identity?

Over 8 days now, I cannot imagine what the poor families must be going through, my thoughts are with them.

Dan.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
jasond
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:23 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting Laddb (Reply 137):
I've read some reports that say they have found a large metal object. This, coupled with the eyewitness reports of a low flying plane, no floating debris found, could (possibly, maybe, with high chance of error), mean there was a controlled ditching of the plane and it remained largely intact. ?????

Thanks for that scenario, I didn't consider that one in my earlier post. It could well turn out that way.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:50 pm

Here's an update from Reuters on CNN:

"A U.S. navy ship helping hunt for an Indonesian plane missing for nine days should be able to shed light on whether metal objects found on the sea bed is wreckage, an Indonesian navy commander said on Wednesday."

"It will take them until 10 p.m. (1500 GMT) tonight to confirm the exact position and to figure out what kind of object is down there," Moekhlas Sidik, commander of the navy's eastern fleet, said after returning from aboard a ship in the area."

Isn't that in a couple of hours?
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:29 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:11 am

What time is it now in Indonesia? Shouldn't there be some news?
 
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jetfuel
Posts: 1078
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:17 am

Whilst the US Navy vessel is still having difficulties identifying the metal on the ocean bed, yet another report re possible sighting

http://www.centralchronicle.com/20070111/1101192.htm

Mark Jarrett, deputy director of operations for the U.S. Naval Oceanographic Office, said the vessel conducted oceanographic surveys and can map the sea bed, but had its limits.

"In shallow water that's not too difficult to do, in less than 500 metres. Any deeper ... and it will be very difficult for our ship to identify any parts, especially if they're small," he told Reuters in Washington.





http://www.tempointeractive.com/hg/n...7/01/10/brk,20070110-90973,uk.html

"The Manado Search & Rescue (SAR) team moved to Sang Tombolang subdistrict, North Bolaang Mongondow regency, North Sulawesi yesterday (9/1) to follow up on new reports regarding the possible location ......................................It was a rattan worker who saw it,” said Sukardi, Head of the Manado SAR team, yesterday......It is not yet known for certain whether or not what the rattan worker saw was definitely the missing Adam Air plane................."

To me it's sounding like something out of the 1950's, yet with so many unaswered questions




The pilot twice altered his flight path because of strong winds but where and when did this occur and what were the changes in track?

What was the confirmed fuel load on departure and what endurance did the jet have?

Why was the pilot asking ATC for his position? Does this imply a failure of aircraft nav equipment? Surely the 737 would have had GPS/INS or other coordinate equipment?

Has anybody established from the fisherman what the aircraft they saw looked like? Was it a 737 or a 172? What altitude was it and was it under power or gliding?
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
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jetfuel
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 141):
What time is it now in Indonesia? Shouldn't there be some news?

Its just before first light there and the above is all I can find that's newsworthy
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 88):
Whenever I have to go to a doctor here, it doesn't matter what is wrong with me, I am always diagnosed with "masuk angin". I guess it is the Indonesian way of saying, "I don't really know what is wrong with you".

That's a blatant insult to the medical professional in Indonesia. Don't you know that Indonesia has several of the most skillful surgeons in the world? If they were given more advanced equipment, you'll see their names everyday in the news.

Besides, what you describe as "masuk angin" is another way of saying you catch a cold. Not really unscientific right? I guess you should learn about Indonesia better before commenting.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 92):
Why is it that Singapore, to name just one, is so successful where Indonesia seems to be failing miserably over and over again? Given the country's wealth in natural resources and a population of over 200 million, don't you think we could reasonably expect better? Does a different set of logics and rules, of which the rest of the world has never heard anything before, apply only here?

Well, there's much more complex problems than saying having population of over 200millions and wealthy natural resources. You might find it counter intuitive, but managing 200million people in a country is much harder than managing the tiny ass Singapore. A lot of Indonesians are still living in very traditional and isolated manner, which cannot help the overall economy of the country.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 107):
The fact is - and that has been the point that I have been trying to make all along - that the current sad state of affairs, both on the Indonesian civil aviation scene at large and in the ongoing search and rescue debacle for the missing airliner, is directly related to a number of issues, including endemic corruption, a lack of human resources and years of inadequate investment in infrastructure which are rampant in all parts of Indonesian society. Is that a direct attack on the country at its citizens? I don't think so, because anyone who reads Indonesian newspapers on a regular basis will see that I am just stating facts here.

It's easy for a foreigner to see and judge another country. The fact is that the civil aviation is still developing. It's not cheap to buy all the best equipment in the world and employ the best engineers for inspections. The country simply cannot afford it right now with a lot of other more important problems than building state of the art airports and aviation facilities.

Indonesians try to make the best of what is available to them. I am not saying that corruption is not rampant in Indonesia, but I am just saying that the facility although is not the best in the world is adequate for Indonesians to travel. If you don't like it, you are more than welcome not to use it. Maybe you can build your own airport and use it exclusively, cause we cannot afford Changi-like airport.

Sure, I'd like my government clean and my CGK gold-plated, but 3 weeks and Adam Air's missing plane won't be enough. It will take much more than that, and I can only be patient and make do what is available to me.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 92):
Back to aviation now. A very small percentage of the Indonesian population has access to air travel, and only a fraction of those finds it within its financial means to embark on international air travel - courtesy of the Indonesian government which finds it safer to keep its citizens at home and therefore slaps a tax of more than USD 100 on all those renegades who dare to exit this country.

So what? 100USD is a tax, and governments can have their own way to tax their people. It's not about what is safer or the government trying to keep its citizens at home. It's about taxing more on the rich. How bout those environmental tax levied by the EU or the security tax levied by the TSA. Same difference. I don't mind spending that money if I want to go abroad, so why should you? You are not even taxed.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
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jetfuel
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:25 am

I really wanted others to see this photo of Indonesians setting fire to a cardboard model of an Adam Air aircraft Jakarta this week




I think it's important to know that many people are not happy with the way the country's airline industry is regulated (or unregulated), the apparent silence from the airline following the crash (loss) of the 737 and the seemingly weak actions from the Indonesian Government.


http://www.tempointeractive.com/hg/n...7/01/09/brk,20070109-90881,uk.html

Further, the airline is being sued on the basis that consumer protection is ignored due to the cheap fare policy enacted by the company. (ie. cheap fares are available because aircraft maintenance cost is reduced) putting lives at risk


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...e/0,5744,21036410%255E2703,00.html

...."Indonesian Consumers Foundation spokeswoman Indah Sukmaningsih... said yesterday the case calls for damages of one billion rupiahs ($141,000) to be paid on behalf of each of the passengers
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:50 am

MSNBC is reporting that a portion of the tail of the aircraft has been found.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16567269/
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:04 am

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 144):
That's a blatant insult to the medical professional in Indonesia. Don't you know that Indonesia has several of the most skillful surgeons in the world? If they were given more advanced equipment, you'll see their names everyday in the news.

Besides, what you describe as "masuk angin" is another way of saying you catch a cold. Not really unscientific right? I guess you should learn about Indonesia better before commenting.

I wasn't saying that Indonesia does not have skillful surgeons. I am sure that like most countries Indonesia has doctors who are both of the best quality and some that are not so good. You are clearly reading things into an innocent comment.

BTW, why should I learn more about Indonesia? I know what " masuk angin" is. I was mearly commenting that it doesn't matter what symtoms I have, two certain doctors who live in Yogyakarta always diagnose me with "masuk angin" when clearly that is not what is wrong with me. A throat infection is not a cold. Food poisoning/ sakit perut is not a cold. Persistent headaches could possibly be a cold, although the fact that I have thought it serious enough to go to a doctor should suggest to them that it is somethings more serious. From my experiences with lower-level medical professionals, I have found the staff at K24 much more helpful.

BTW, I am heavily critical of Indonesia. This is only because as an outsider it is easy for me to pick faults, just as you would probably find it easier to pick faults with my society than would I. I do not mean anything I say to be insulting, simply casual observations I have made.
 
anthonyspider
Posts: 13
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RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:04 am

Here is another link re: the found tailfin

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/...ound/2007/01/11/1168105090388.html

[Edited 2007-01-11 03:05:49]
 
NZKTBOY
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:46 am

RE: Adam Air Flight Loses Contact During Flight 2

Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:18 pm

yup

a piece of the tail was found by a fisherman
Do i have to live here??

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