MAXjet To Temporarily End STN-IAD

latinaviation · Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:34 am

Haven't seen this posted:
http://washingtontimes.com/business/20070112-111405-1731r.htm

Maxjet Airways announced yesterday it will temporarily suspend service from Washington Dulles International Airport to London beginning Tuesday.
The low-fare carrier, which operates four weekly flights from Dulles to London's Stansted Airport, said it will resume the service on May 24.

RDUDDJI · Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:54 am

Interesting. I have a few old JI friends who fly for them, and they told me the IAD-STN flight has better loads than their other flights... ahh, who knows, maybe they're short an airframe?

MaverickM11 · Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting LatinAviation (Thread starter):
it will temporarily suspend service

Uh huh....is this like when FL temporarily suspended MDW/EWR?

mtnwest1979 · Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:56 am

I have rarely ever seen 'temporary' suspensions that didn't end up being permanent.
Reminds me when the OAGs had the 'x' next to an airlines code whose service was 'temporarily suspended'.

[Edited 2007-01-16 20:56:51]

AF022 · Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:04 am

I would say this route is dead. If MaxJet can't make a business route work this time of year - when demand skews heavily to business - then the summer won't work either.

FutureFO · Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:29 am

They are also one of the worst companies to work for right now. People are jumping ship like rats off of a sinking ship. Even some of the upper management is leaving.

Guest · Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:44 am

Does MaxJet use some kind of lounge in IAD? I was transiting Dulles on the 9th and the flight was delayed until 11:00 -- gate area was completely deserted save for 1 or 2 people - hopefully that wasn't the load for the night.

jetblueatjfk · Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 1):
ahh, who knows, maybe they're short an airframe?

I don't think thats it because on Sunday at JFK I saw a MAXjet plane in old white colors parked right by the JFK Expressway entrance from the Belt.

B6jfk airplane

Reggaebird · Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:55 am

Rumor has it that MaxJet was planning to start BOS-STN service in the Summer or Fall. They were at Logan Airport checking out the territory a few months ago. Maybe this will allow them to start BOS sooner.

Reggaebird

cwldude · Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:58 am

This certainly is unusual! Things aren't looking particularly well for MAXJet at the moment are they?

How are loads on the STN-LAS route?

aerlinguscargo · Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:15 am

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 7):
I don't think thats it because on Sunday at JFK I saw a MAXjet plane in old white colors parked right by the JFK Expressway entrance from the Belt.

Still sitting there when I drove past tonight, I double took when i noticed the all white aircraft wearing MAX jet titles. Why hasnt this frame been painted purple yet? New Delivery ?

FlyDeltaJets · Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting Aerlinguscargo (Reply 10):
Still sitting there when I drove past tonight, I double took when i noticed the all white aircraft wearing MAX jet titles. Why hasnt this frame been painted purple yet? New Delivery ?

That plane has been there for a couple of weeks. I personally like the white better the purple is ugly.

cslusarc · Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:58 pm

Do you think that there is a long term future for an all business class service offering, like the one provided by MAXjet, between STN and various airports throughout the US? I absolutely don't think so, because STN is so distantly removed from The City and other business destinations within Central London. I would think MAXjet and other all business class service operators would have a better chance if they operated from either LTN or LGW.

cancidas · Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:01 pm

that white airplane has been sitting at the FedEx hangars for a while now. i saw it there middle of the week, about to weeks ago. is that one AOG-ed for MX now?

rdwootty · Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:22 pm

Looking at the arrivals etc over the last few weeks they have cancelled the LAS and IAD flights on a regular basis. Aircraft problems or just bad loads. LAS has seemed to be cancelled for the last few weeks so is it all folding slowly ??

LHR777 · Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 12):
I absolutely don't think so, because STN is so distantly removed from The City and other business destinations within Central London.

STN is actually quite close to the 'City of London'. The Stansted Express takes 40 minutes from STN to Liverpool St station, right in the financial district, with easy connections out to Docklands too. Try doing LHR to the City in 40 minutes. Almost impossible.

Kevin777 · Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:47 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):

Uh huh....is this like when FL temporarily suspended MDW/EWR?

Or BD temporarily suspending BOM.... Bye, bye MAxJet at IAD... and bye bye MaxJet in general very soon, by the way

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 12):
Do you think that there is a long term future for an all business class service offering, like the one provided by MAXjet, between STN and various airports throughout the US? I absolutely don't think so, because STN is so distantly removed from The City and other business destinations within Central London. I would think MAXjet and other all business class service operators would have a better chance if they operated from either LTN or LGW.

I personally don't think there is a market for independent all-C operators between London and the US. If there is, it can maximum support one player, but even that is doubtful. They can't provide flexibility and reliability, and service wise the only difference between them and VS, BA's etc. premium classes is that they come with an economy section attached; one that you aren't likely to see anyway. Eos, MaxJet and SilverJet combining forces? Maybe, but not big chances. Surviving on their own? Snowball's chance in hell.
However, I don't think its unviable because of using, say, STN - STN is, for instance, closer to London, and in particular the financial district, than LGW.

Kevin777 Smile

flyboy7974 · Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:20 am

there was a post regarding this sometime over the weekend or last week where discussed was the lost of the IAD service for MAXJET, and clips were provided that due to unforseen maintenance and continued op problems with an aircraft, the airline decided to offer the IAD service seasonally, BOS service which was to be announced for the summer season is now delayed until further notice, and LAS service will be increased by one added flight a week and now the airline will focus on STN - JFK/LAS service. While loads weren't that bad on the IAD service and just the same for LAS, yields were higher for the LAS service, which surprised me quite a bit. I've been trying to search for the clips from the UK business paper that had all the info, but can't find them and I just checked also on flyertalk but couldnt find it there either

UAL777UK · Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:42 am

I bet UA are really upset about this as well.....NOT!

mlsrar · Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting Sjc>sfo (Reply 6):
Does MaxJet use some kind of lounge in IAD? I was transiting Dulles on the 9th and the flight was delayed until 11:00 -- gate area was completely deserted save for 1 or 2 people - hopefully that wasn't the load for the night.

They use the Northwest WorldClub there.

jacobin777 · Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:49 am

As long as MaxJet doesn't pull their "bread and butter" JFK-STN route, I think they have a shot at surviving.....but reading some comments on skytrax, it seems they need to get their house in order a little bit and be a bit more consistent with their product offering....

8herveg · Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:54 am

Do not mean to sound ignorant, but what is the actual reason they are stopping the flight to IAD?

To focus on the other two routes says the press release. But how is stopping the IAD going to affect this?

They have 3 aircraft.

1 doing the 6 weekly STN - JFK route
1 doing the 2 weekly STN - LAS route

Which means they still have one aircraft left over, with the 2nd aircraft (the one doing the STN - LAS route) being spare for the 4 days it can do the IAD route.

Have any of them gone tech or something?

[Edited 2007-01-17 18:22:55]

LGW · Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 16):
STN is, for instance, closer to London, and in particular the financial district, than LGW.

STN is closer to much of the financial district yes, but LGW is closer to London in general.

Kevin777 · Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:28 pm

Quoting LGW" class=quote target=_blank>LGW (Reply 22):
STN is closer to much of the financial district yes, but LGW is closer to London in general.

Okay, LGW you must know!

Kevin777

richcandy · Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:00 pm

"Do you think that there is a long term future for an all business class service offering, like the one provided by MAXjet, between STN and various airports throughout the US? I absolutely don't think so, because STN is so distantly removed from The City and other business destinations within Central London. I would think MAXjet and other all business class service operators would have a better chance if they operated from either LTN or LGW."

Question is who are maxjet targeting? More and more people here in the UK are flying business class when they go on holiday. They are happy to pay a bit more for space. I understand that Maxjet’s product is like an old style business class. So maybe it’s the premium economy class passengers that they are out to get?

As said before the travel time to STN from the city is not that bad. I guess if you live a West London it would be more of an issue. Eos have a more upmarket product and claim in a presentation that they did for the company I work for that they can get you from aircraft to kerb side within 14mins at STN, much faster than LHR.

And from next week we will have silverjet with there own terminal at LTN. BA have said that the cannot get enough capacity between London and New York and that’s why they have 11 flights a day.

Rich

avianca707359b · Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:31 pm

I am a firm believer in the free market system and I will always support new ventures IF they deliver on what they promise. The suspension of the Washington route is an ominous sign. The complaints on AirlineQuality/Skytrax are starting to sound very "Air-Madrid"-ish....

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/maxjet.htm

The issue of Stansted v. Heathrow v. Gatwick v. Luton is irrelevant if it is convenient to THE PASSENGER as opposed to what A-netters THINK is convenient for themselves.

Comparisons have been made with EOS, but I think there are some very different service dynamics working here:

By most accounts I've read, EOS is comparable or superior to the main carriers' business class products at a lower price, trading off multiple-daily-flight flexibility and some service extras for a corporate-jet-like experience at a less congested airport in London. In contrast, MaxJet offers a less-than-real-business class experience at a MUCH lower price, and with that lower price comes MUCH lower flexibility and reliability - two things that business travellers prize highly. EOS seems to be fulfilling their mission, but MaxJet does not; I worry that MaxJet is going to turn into a "splurge" carrier for upscale leisure travellers that would never pay $8,000 for Club World or Upper Class, while at the same time driving away business travellers. In the long run, such an operation cannot succeed.

I'm curious to see what happens to this equation once Silverjet has been up and running for a while....

Kevin777 · Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 24):
BA have said that the cannot get enough capacity between London and New York and that’s why they have 11 flights a day.

You mean they cannot get enough large AC and that's why they have 11 daily flights with smaller a/c's or? Sounds weird! That should only be a temporary problem. I'm sure they could use the slots at LHR if they got some bigger, more infrequent departures to NYC

Kevin777 Smile

v1valarob · Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:01 am

A friend who is looking to get hired by MAXjet called her inside person. Whether its all BS or not who knows. But the lady said that loads where really light on that route, they are adding more Vegas routes, and MAXjet has had a few charters to do. All have been mentioned, except the charters, but with everyone on here saying that they don't have enough aircraft, how can they afford to do charters?

-Rob

Kevin777 · Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting V1valarob (Reply 27):
All have been mentioned, except the charters, but with everyone on here saying that they don't have enough aircraft, how can they afford to do charters?

I think it's a question of how can they afford not to do charters. I'm sure doing ad hoc charters for God-knows-who is the last thing you want to do as an all-C airline between NYC and London. Doing the charters is probably an attempt to get in some cash (ad hoc charters can be pretty lucrative), and nothing wrong with that of course. Flying with 30 pax to IAD or doing a full-load charter to the Caribbean; easy answer: xxx the IAD and rebook people with a compensation.

Kevin777 Smile

StarGoldLHR · Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting LGW" class=quote target=_blank>LGW (Reply 22):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 16):
STN is, for instance, closer to London, and in particular the financial district, than LGW.

STN is closer to much of the financial district yes, but LGW is closer to London in general.

Only a user with LGW in the name would suggest LGW is closer in general.
I live in Canary wharf (Centre of the London's new business world) and find LGW the pits end of the world airport to try to fly from !.. 2 hour drive if the M25 allows it, 1hr 20 if the train/tube works at all.

At least LHR is reliable, and there's alternate ways to get there if one of london's decrepit transport networks fails.

STN is a 45 minute drive, 1 hr from Liverpool st by train.

Still LCY.. is the best one of all.

LGW · Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 29):
Only a user with LGW in the name would suggest LGW is closer in general.
I live in Canary wharf (Centre of the London's new business world) and find LGW the pits end of the world airport to try to fly from !.. 2 hour drive if the M25 allows it, 1hr 20 if the train/tube works at a

I said that STN is closer to London's financial district and LGW is closer in mileage terms to London; both of which are correct, no bias there.

expatmatt · Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:46 pm

I was at LAS Terminal 2 on Tuesday and noticed the MAXjet inbound was from STN and JFK, but the outbound was just for STN.

Are the LAS flights making fuel stops (like many other westbound transatlantic flights are doing right now due to strong headwinds) or is this a planned schedule?

Kevin777 · Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:25 pm

Quoting Expatmatt (Reply 31):
I was at LAS Terminal 2 on Tuesday and noticed the MAXjet inbound was from STN and JFK, but the outbound was just for STN.

Are the LAS flights making fuel stops (like many other westbound transatlantic flights are doing right now due to strong headwinds) or is this a planned schedule?

I'm no expert on fuel stops in general, but to me this seems like an all too obvious case of doubling up a flight across the pond. Nothing wrong with that as such, but still, it is a sign of trouble and of course it's not a nice sign to send to your customers, too. If it was a fuelstop, going down in JFK seems odd if you're heading for LAS; JFK is way south of the STN-LAS flightpath.

Kevin777

N1120A · Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 21):
Which means they still have one aircraft left over, with the 2nd aircraft (the one doing the STN - LAS route) being spare for the 4 days it can do the IAD route.

Have any of them gone tech or something?

Anyone want to bet on a C-check being needed?

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 29):
1hr 20 if the train/tube works at all.

Which it ALWAYS does.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 29):
if one of london's decrepit transport networks fails.

That decrepit network is damn near the best in the world

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 32):
If it was a fuelstop, going down in JFK seems odd if you're heading for LAS; JFK is way south of the STN-LAS flightpath.

It is, however, online.

Kevin777 · Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:38 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
That decrepit network is damn near the best in the world

The best being Copenhagen's, although sizes of course are quite different

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 32):
If it was a fuelstop, going down in JFK seems odd if you're heading for LAS; JFK is way south of the STN-LAS flightpath.

It is, however, online.

Sorry for maybe asking a dumb question here, but what do you mean by that..???

Kevin777

N1120A · Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:10 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 34):
Sorry for maybe asking a dumb question here, but what do you mean by that..???

Online means an airport they serve.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 34):
The best being Copenhagen's, although sizes of course are quite different

Copenhagen's is too bus-intensive. The only cities that really compare to London are Berlin, New York, Paris and Tokyo

Kevin777 · Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:01 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 35):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 34):
Sorry for maybe asking a dumb question here, but what do you mean by that..???

Online means an airport they serve.

Ok, knew that, just misunderstood your post..

Quoting N1120A (Reply 35):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 34):
The best being Copenhagen's, although sizes of course are quite different

Copenhagen's is too bus-intensive. The only cities that really compare to London are Berlin, New York, Paris and Tokyo

Hmm.. firstly, I don't think Copenhagen or Berling should be directly compared to the above mentioned cities, size is too different... but still, Copenhagen was very bus-intensive, but not anymore, and both the city rail service as well as the metro has been heavily expanded recently (inside the city, not in some far-away suburb). And (too keep an air-focus!) CPH must have one of the world's best connections to the city: Straight from the terminal on to the highway, that'll take you to the center of the city in 15 mins. Or take the train from the basement of the arrivals terminal to the central station in 12 minutes / 2,50 Euros. From Oct 07 the metro will terminate in terminal 3, taking you to various downtown locations within 10-15 mins at 4-min intervals, also 2.50 Euros. I really think it's impressive, and world-class.

Kevin777 Smile

acvitale · Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:18 pm

I would not put a lot of credit to people commenting as if they had inside information on Max Jet when you read some of the comments above.

Max Jet apparently makes a considerably high charter fee off of the unique product. A charter broker I work with did a one day charter with them domestically that ran $500K.

On the same hand they have had a problem with IAD yields and loads as is evidenced by the drop from 6x to 4x weekly and now a suspension until the peak summer season.

Max Jet is also apparently doing well on the LAS route where loads have been very strong and the carrier is adding services.

The airline has now acquired a total of 5 aircraft. 2 in regular service, 1 spare and 2 more in the next few weeks.

The airline is cash positive and the ability to make the difficult decisions is one that is important. They are preparing to go public for $180M USD. The full truth will be released to the public domain with the share offer. I suspect that many on this board will need to re-evaluate their stance.

As for Skytrax I do not have anything good to say. They push airlines who use their consulting services and drop positive comments from those who do not and only post the trash. I find their tactics abhorant!

Good luck to Max Jet. I would expect to see at least 4 destinations for the summer from STN.

Kevin777 · Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:52 pm

Quoting ACVitale (Reply 37):
I would not put a lot of credit to people commenting as if they had inside information on Max Jet when you read some of the comments above.

We can't all have inside info. Do you have any on MaxJet?

Quoting ACVitale (Reply 37):
The airline is cash positive

You sure? How do you know? Even the success-airline stories (that are few) rarely have a positive cash-flow in the first year or so of operation. Doubt MaxJet would be different.

Quoting ACVitale (Reply 37):
I suspect that many on this board will need to re-evaluate their stance.

Hmm... I don't! Smile

Quoting ACVitale (Reply 37):
As for Skytrax I do not have anything good to say. They push airlines who use their consulting services and drop positive comments from those who do not and only post the trash. I find their tactics abhorant!

I absolulety agree. I don't give anything for their "advice" on these issues either. Also, Skytrax ignores the economics of it all: The trick is to find the optimal service model, not the best; however, SkyTrax doesn't seem to recognize this.

Quoting ACVitale (Reply 37):
Good luck to Max Jet. I would expect to see at least 4 destinations for the summer from STN

Yes, good luck to them. But I'm not buying any stock!

Kevin777

WJ · Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:29 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 21):
Have any of them gone tech or something?

Yup, one of the three (N251MY) has been parked in a hanger at JFK for a while now. They are operating with the two remaining planes. Kudos to them if they make it through this ok and are able to relaunch IAD and expand.

8herveg · Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting Wj (Reply 39):
They are operating with the two remaining planes.

So if LAS is only being operated 2 (and soon 3) times per week, surely they could still operate the IAD service the other 4 - 5 times a week?

N1120A · Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:41 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 36):
Straight from the terminal on to the highway, that'll take you to the center of the city in 15 mins.

Well, that isn't really public transport, is it.

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