kaitak
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Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:57 pm

Well, 4/07 saw a few interesting developments, not least the possibility of an Etihad route to DUB. I guess it goes to show that if the stimulus doesn't come from inside, it can be external - a salutory reminder that we can only go so far by lounging around thinking the rest of the world waits for us.

Tuesday sees the launch of the new National Development Plan, which will take us to 2013; it is expected that there will be some investment in Transport infrastructure (though I don't expect much for aviation specifically); however, we may see some progress on rail links to airports.

I always hope that there will be something interesting in the Sunday papers; not a great deal unfortunately, so we launch into 5/07 without too much great excitement on the horizon. Next exciting thing (and it sounds almost sad to describe it as such) is the EU/US bilateral talks, to begin on the 5th of next month. At this stage, I'm less and less convinced that we'll see much in the way of new US access this year, but with Etihad coming to DUB, meaning more competition on M/E routes, this may well be the year that Ireland finally gets its first far eastern link.

So, here we go guys; "below the line" checks complete, flaps set, clearance copied, brakes released and throttles forward. We're rolling ...
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:18 pm

I think Aer Lingus are ready to take on Etihad but it's weird that they are only putting lie flat seats on the two new A330s and not the reasonably young A332s? I understand the A333s because I really think they are on the way out I suppose we will know more when Aer Lingus make their "big" order.

A321s over the Atlantic, although possible I just think Aer Lingus knows what it needs and that's A330s for long-haul and A32Xs for short-haul.

Since DM arrived at EI, I think we have seen a change in the Aer Lingus image. There is less of the aerlingus.com all you have to do to see this is look at Dublin where the instructions for Fast Pass are, there is no yellow or red and there is no aerlingus.com. It's even got the Shamrock and a green background which was missing for a few years. The fast pass machines are turning green!

MyAviation.net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photographer © Alexander Sarmiento Schober


I think this is great to see the green but I hope it doesn't damage the low fare image which has been working for Aer Lingus for the past few years.
 
kaitak
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:53 pm

I thought the lie-flat seats were going on all 332s; hasn't one them already gone to Filton for a refit, with another still to go.

I had a quick look at the JP Airline fleets and EY is taking about three new A330s (all -200s) this year and two A346s, so it's not at all unreasonable to expect new routes to be added; furthermore, as the A346s replace A330s on some routes, these will be available for use on new routes. The airline is introducing Pearl (its rather special looking F Class) on its 332s, but I would expect DUB flights to be operated by two class aircraft.

Competition is often the best way to spur airlines into a better product and if that's what it takes, so be it. The same applies on the Atlantic; CO is to add AVOD to its 757 fleet, so that will hopefully persuade other airlines to do likewise. I know PTVs aren't the end of the world, but if you're flying long distance, it's nice to have the choice. I did KIX-FRA about two years ago on a Lufthansa A340-600; thirteen hours, no PTV. Never again.

The one thing that is playing on my mind more and more recently - and it will be discussed on other threads later in the week - is the whole environmental aspect. On Wednesday night, at 9pm, there will be a program about the effect of aviation on the environment. It just grates with me that aviation is now the whipping boy for the environmental movement; they don't look to power generation, cows or any other form of transport; it's planes and it's bad enough when it's in England, but what about here in Ireland? We don't have the choice and in any case, the 2-3% of carbon emissions by aviation is dwarfed by the huge emissions being poured out by Chinese and Indian coal- driven power plants.

I think what really gets me is that it's becoming a "moral" issue; not so much in Ireland, but certainly in the UK, it's becoming an issue of judgment, that people are expected to cut back on foreign holidays and to reduce their carbon footprint etc etc. There was a report this week which suggested that in 30 years, long haul holidays will only be for the elite. All very depressing ...
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
I thought the lie-flat seats were going on all 332s; hasn't one them already gone to Filton for a refit, with another still to go.

Here is the link from USToday.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/colum...telli/2006-12-08-brancatelli_x.htm

All it mentions about the current A330s is that they will be "refreshed" and it then goes onto say that the seats both old and new will have new power points. It also says something about handheld PTVs which we discussed a few weeks ago.

Didn't PenPusher say that new seats were on the way for EI-CRK but they were not lie flat just newer versions of the current seat? It was in a thread before Christmas.
 
EIBoston
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:32 am

If EI did base some aricraft in the USA then the A321 might be a good fit for flights to ORK from JFK/BOS. Currently I believe the A33X has issues turning at Cork. I really think there is a market for flights from Cork to the USA. 757's would be ideal. CO or AA may do this when OS is sorted out.
 
EI787
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/0

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:14 am

I was having another look at where the EI A330's have been in January.

I notice the following about EI-LAX:

On Jan 8th it flew somewhere as EI990 and was spotted by someone in Cheshire, England.
Then, it didn't fly anywhere until Jan 19th, when it flew somewhere as EI991, spotted in Offerton, England.

This has to be for a cabin re-fit in England - don't ya think?! (Maybe a bit of wishful thinking - but could be true)!
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting EI787 (Reply 5):
I notice the following about EI-LAX:

Is EI-LAX a 332?

I'm just back from Dublin airport and there is a 332 parked on a remote stand. It doesn't look like its in use at the moment so possibly that could be the bird in question?
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting Shamrock330 (Reply 6):
Is EI-LAX a 332?

Yes it is.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui


If these aircraft haven't been in use for sometime what is Aer Lingus using instead?

It was at Filton last week which is used by Air Livery and one of their customers is our very own Aer Lingus!

Is it possible it was the A330 hit by lightning yesterday?
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...hp3?ca=9&si=1760206&issue_id=15151
Just scroll down.

[Edited 2007-01-21 19:51:24]
 
EI787
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 7):
Is it possible it was the A330 hit by lightning yesterday?

According to SPOTTERS, that aircraft was EI-DUB.
 
PenPusher
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting EI787 (Reply 5):
On Jan 8th it flew somewhere as EI990 and was spotted by someone in Cheshire, England.
Then, it didn't fly anywhere until Jan 19th, when it flew somewhere as EI991, spotted in Offerton, England.

This has to be for a cabin re-fit in England - don't ya think?! (Maybe a bit of wishful thinking - but could be true)!

Hi Folks
EI-LAX went to Filton only for Painting, any cabin work etc would be done in Dublin by SR Technics which reminds me the A330-200's will gettings MOD's done over the next few weeks for crew rest areas down in the back of 'Y'. One aircraft will be modified and crew area installed and the other two will have the wiring etc done with the crew area installed later in 2007. Now maybe this is all being done for a Cape Town service next winter ??

BX737 any offers?

PenPusher
 
kaitak
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:05 am

I doubt it; the 104 is always an A330-300.

Great shot; I hadn't seen that one before. Sam Chui has another one (from an overhead angle) of one of the 332s landing at LAX, which is actually one of the most popular shots on A.net - it's frequently on the main page of the site.

Anyway, good to see that this is happening at last. The 333s will probably get the J Class upgrade, but not the PTVs in Y Class, which is a pity, but weight issues are weight issues and if it can't do ORD with a full load, then it's a no-no.

Looking forward, I wonder what EI's next plan is. There was a rumour, mentioned above, that EI was looking to start Asia this year. At this stage, with talks due next month, it looks unlikely that EI can start new US routes in time for this Summer, although it could start them later in the year. Will this be the year we finally see EI flying to Asia? With new aircraft (and a product quality to match), it could be the right time to do it - and make a (good) name for itself, before Jetstar and others get in. Let's hope.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting EI787 (Reply 8):
According to SPOTTERS, that aircraft was EI-DUB.

Not another A333! I hope it wasn't too badly damaged by the strike.

Hopefully EI-LAX is fine and is getting it's new seats.  crossfingers 
 
EI787
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting PenPusher (Reply 9):
EI-LAX went to Filton only for Painting

Agh, that's a pity!
 
kaitak
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting PenPusher (Reply 9):
EI-LAX went to Filton only for Painting, any cabin work etc would be done in Dublin by SR Technics which reminds me the A330-200's will gettings MOD's done over the next few weeks for crew rest areas down in the back of 'Y'. One aircraft will be modified and crew area installed and the other two will have the wiring etc done with the crew area installed later in 2007. Now maybe this is all being done for a Cape Town service next winter ??

CPT is certainly a possibility; when DM was in Cork this week, he mentioned Cape Town as a possible market from Ireland. I'm really just guessing here, however, I think EI will want to look further east before it looks south; I'm basing that on the scheduling issues. If EI flies to CPT first, that means a waste of a whole day's utilisation, one way or another. Flying to Asia first, with an evening departure, would allow EI to operate a day flight back from CPT, which could then fly on to Asia, thus maximising aircraft utilisation.

The crew rest areas are a very good clue to longer flights being planned; wasn't this one of the requests of flight crews when EI was looking at CPT about 2-3 years ago?
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:16 am

Thanks for the info PenPusher!

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 13):
Flying to Asia first, with an evening departure, would allow EI to operate a day flight back from CPT, which could then fly on to Asia, thus maximising aircraft utilisation.

So I suppose we are more likely to see BKK announced before CPT. At least DM is talking again and action is being taken to get the fleet ready for more long-haul routes.

 bigthumbsup 
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting PenPusher (Reply 9):
EI-LAX went to Filton only for Painting,

Too Bad! If the long haul fleet is to have the new "cocoon" seats by April, we really should be seeing some movement by now.

I would imagine an overhaul of the business cabin including carpet, seats and electrics etc. would be pushing three- four days to be complete. ( Perhaps thats too realistic? )

Anyway, what do cocoon seats look like? Are these Cocoon style or are they more akin to the current EI offering, much like Delta Business Elite setas?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Christopher Liao - Spot This!
View Large View Medium
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Photo © René Posch



I particularly like the austrian airlines seats.




[Edited 2007-01-21 20:20:00]
 
kaitak
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:35 am

I don't actually know what the term "coccoon" means, though I suspect it is a seat where the back of the seat remains rigid, but the seat itself reclines within that "coccoon".

The one problem with both of these seats is that there is quite a steep incline, with the result that pax could find themselves sliding down the seat during the night (no joke!); SIA had similar seats on its A340-500s on the long nonstops and this was one of the complaints.

Apparently, the comfortable sleeping position is said to be a "quarter past nine", in clock terms, in that the main part of the body is flat, but the legs are very slightly upwards.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 16):
The one problem with both of these seats is that there is quite a steep incline, with the result that pax could find themselves sliding down the seat during the night (no joke!);

Having slept in angled and flat J class seats, there isn't a hell of a lot of difference (I am speaking about QF and BA specifically). You feel like you "might" slide down the seat, but it's virtually impossible. It's just that the angle makes sleeping feel unusual.

Either way, the thing could be at a 45 degree angle and be better than EIs current offering.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 16):
The one problem with both of these seats is that there is quite a steep incline, with the result that pax could find themselves sliding down the seat during the night

That seems to be a common complaint of passengers going by the comments over on airlinequality.com

The current Premier seats look quite comfy, but they're so outdated it's taking the biscuit. I just hope that EI don't screw up their one shot to make an impact by installing seats that passengers are continually sliding down.

Their proposition of a "good nights sleep" could be well and truly be squandered if they get a reputation for having uncomfortable seats.

[Edited 2007-01-21 20:58:27]
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
The one thing that is playing on my mind more and more recently - and it will be discussed on other threads later in the week - is the whole environmental aspect. On Wednesday night, at 9pm, there will be a program about the effect of aviation on the environment. It just grates with me that aviation is now the whipping boy for the environmental movement; they don't look to power generation, cows or any other form of transport; it's planes and it's bad enough when it's in England, but what about here in Ireland? We don't have the choice and in any case, the 2-3% of carbon emissions by aviation is dwarfed by the huge emissions being poured out by Chinese and Indian coal- driven power plants.

I think what really gets me is that it's becoming a "moral" issue; not so much in Ireland, but certainly in the UK, it's becoming an issue of judgment, that people are expected to cut back on foreign holidays and to reduce their carbon footprint etc etc. There was a report this week which suggested that in 30 years, long haul holidays will only be for the elite. All very depressing ...

This really gets under my skin. Air Travel seems to get picked on when it comes to pollution instead of blaming the real source of CO2 emissions such as road transport & power plants. Air travel is a soft target in the eyes of the EU & the various governments throughout Europe because environmental taxes can be imposed on airlines with only minimal consequences in terms of p*****g off the electorate. This way, they can claim they are doing their bit to help the environment (sounds good on an election campaign) but they don't have to face the huge public uproar that would be caused by implementing a carbon tax on big, gas guzzling cars owned by an ever increasing percentage of the voting population. You wouldn't mind as much but Air Travel is much more necessary than people who sit into their cars & drive half a mile down the road simply because they are just too plain lazy to walk.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
kaitak
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:48 am

It will be interesting to see if this documentary adds anything new or presents the other side, or whether it will just be another rehashing of the same old anti-aviation line, without any opportunity given to defend the industry. One of the fears I have is that aviation will become the new smoking. In years to come, there will be a new breed of pushers, "psst, kid ... c'mere, want to buy some plane tickets?" Okay, that's facetious, but give the environmental lobby can't be underestimated. We can pooh-pooh them as eco-nuts, but the fact of the matter is that in the UK at least, they have the ear of the Chancellor; that's why we have this mindlessly stupid tax on aviation, without any incentive element and if that isn't proof of the environmental lobby's browbeating, I don't know what is.

The thing is, I remember being told by a now retired EI pilot that when he started (on 720s), the aircraft burned about 5-6t of fuel an hour (and carried 115 pax). When he retired, he was a 330 captain and that aircraft burned the same amount, but carried nearly 3 times as many pax. Now, what I'm trying to say is that the aviation industry, GIVEN THE CHANCE and the incentive and a fair opportunity to address the issues which are causing concern, can go a considerable distance to make the necessary changes to control environmental damage, but flat taxes like the one imposed in the UK budget do nothing to encourage that; it's like the modern day equivalent of the Animal Farm motto, "two legs bad". Now it's "flying bad". No debate, no allowance to rebut or challenge. Indeed, for all his faults, the only one who is really challenging this is MO'L!

We have to consider this issue in Ireland too, in particular - as I said - because of the competitive disadvantage caused by this UK tax to us. However, we do need to go beyond that and ensure that this anti-aviation push doesn't put us at a disadvantage. It's easy for the likes of Austria, Germany, Hungary etc to promote road and rail travel (and admittedly, the latter is more eco-friendly), but we don't have that option and thus a flat tax across the EU would be an unfair competitive disadvantage against us (as well as Cyprus, Malta and other island countries in the EU).
 
ac747
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:15 am

I'm wondering about the possible EY flights to AUH.
Specifically which type of aircraft they might use from DUB. Most people seem to think the 330.
Any thoughts on them using 767's ?
Haven't we been here before ?
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:17 am

It's great to hear about the new Premier class and what type seat it could be, I really can't wait to see what it will look like.
This looks nice but I could see myself sliding off or at least feeling like I will.

I'm also looking forward to seeing the new economy class on the new A330s. I love the current seats, they are comfy and great for a long flight but they look outdated especially the yellowish coloured ones.
Economy passengers will want comfort and a good looking cabin so they can relax but they dont want to pay a lot for it. Y class is what will make or break EI on long-haul J class is great and needed but Y needs something special.
 
EI787
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting AC747 (Reply 21):
Any thoughts on them using 767's ?

I doubt it. They only have 1 767 which they tend to use on the more local routes. We can pretty much bet that it'll be an A330.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:47 am

DUB is becoming A330 heaven with all those Aer Lingus A330s the GF A330 and now an EY A330 all of which have great livery's.
 
ac747
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:50 am

Didn't realise they just had one.
Was on their website checking fares and saw the fleet listing and it struck me as an option.
Haven't we been here before ?
 
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OA260
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 13):
The crew rest areas are a very good clue to longer flights being planned; wasn't this one of the requests of flight crews when EI was looking at CPT about 2-3 years ago?

I heard that also the costs involved of the crews demands for longer stops made the route un viable. Whats changed now if that was the case??
 
EI787
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:00 am



Stunning!
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:03 am

WIth the possible edition of Etihad on the Dublin - Middle East route, theres going to be a bloodbath. I don't think the market is big enough for all three, even with all the Ireland - Australia traffic, how many are going to be convinced to switch from the traditional Heathrow transit, which so many have become unnaturally accustomed to.

Etihad will always be the winner, since I remember someone saying that their owners don't mind losing money, at the moment the prioity is expansion and enhancing credibility to make EY a truly world class airline.

How can EI compete with that mentality?

Unless EI get cracking with their EK codeshares and DO IT PROPERLY, enabling booking on aerlingus.com and streamlined transfers, then I can honestly see EI bolting and pulling the route. However, if things go according to plan then Gulf air will crack.

Out of all the Middle Eastern carriers they have the worst connection facilities and smallest network. Add to that the defecetion of James Hogan and things aren't looking too good for GF.
 
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OA260
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting Shamrock330 (Reply 28):
WIth the possible edition of Etihad on the Dublin - Middle East route, theres going to be a bloodbath.

If EY come onto the Dublin route then GF and EI are finished on the Gulf transit routes. The service onboard and especially their premium cabins are simply amazing . Something that has never before been seen on the Irish market. GF are the only ones that have offered an alternative to LHR and a good premium product ie: flat beds but put against EY theyd be eaten alive.

Nice 787 pic!!! It does look nice and I hope EI go for them.
 
EI321
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 29):
Nice 787 pic!!! It does look nice and I hope EI go for them.

Its actually an A350!
 
kaitak
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:30 pm

Here's an article from today's Indo about two major European airports - Dublin and Amsterdam: one, as the article says, really works; the other barely functions.

I wonder which is which!

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...hp3?ca=9&si=1760450&issue_id=15152

On the subject of the new crew rest areas, I saw on the Dublin Airport forum that new crew rest areas are required for all new flights over 9h30 (which would take in SFO); no crew rest areas, no new flights over 9h30.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:17 pm

With EY coming to DUB by the years end, *hopefully,* I see EI being kicked out of the market and GF staying.

No'one will bother with EI especially if they are still flying with such a poor premium product and little IFE throughout the entire aircraft. The only way EI can with-stand the EY service is if it quickly gets into talks with EK for a codeshare and FFP alliance.

Also, isn't GF planning to increase their Irish service from thrice weekly to 5 times a week by years end? Once GF gets it's frequencies up there will be no stopping them. They will own the premium market which is all they need.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 31):
On the subject of the new crew rest areas, I saw on the Dublin Airport forum that new crew rest areas are required for all new flights over 9h30 (which would take in SFO); no crew rest areas, no new flights over 9h30.

Let us not panick here. EI still have options. Lagos is another possibility which I don't think has been explored yet. Could it be made non stop from DUB using 321's or 320's? Other ideas are Doha, Jeddah, Riyadh, Mumbai and Mexico City.

How many flights per week does the current Irish-Canadian bi-lateral agreement allow? Is this limiting EI from expanidng to YUL and YYZ because I see these two destinations as having great potential aswell.
 
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OA260
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:34 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 30):
Its actually an A350!

Hmmm on another thread someone said they looked the same !! I have to agree now , they are very similar just ones American and ones European!!!

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 32):
Let us not panick here. EI still have options. Lagos is another possibility which I don't think has been explored yet.

God I wouldnt inflict that on EI crew!!!! Bloody nightmare flight ...
 
Danny
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:43 pm

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 4):
If EI did base some aircraft in the USA then the A321 might be a good fit for flights to ORK from JFK/BOS.

A321 doesn't have the range for it.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 13):
CPT is certainly a possibility; when DM was in Cork this week, he mentioned Cape Town as a possible market from Ireland.

LH is about to discontinue CPT. Is it really good idea for EI? I think Asia offers much better prospects.
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:06 pm

Where exactly are the crew rest areas being installed?

I presume that they are situated downstairs in cargo, in a compartment about the size of a container of cargo?

Quoting EI321 (Reply 30):
Its actually an A350

I thought it was a 787 aswell, just shows that, visually, the two are quite similar!
 
jwmd123
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:07 pm

Quoting Shamrock330 (Reply 28):
WIth the possible edition of Etihad on the Dublin - Middle East route, theres going to be a bloodbath. I don't think the market is big enough for all three, even with all the Ireland - Australia traffic, how many are going to be convinced to switch from the traditional Heathrow transit, which so many have become unnaturally accustomed to.

If the marketing is right, then it just might happen. I am heading to OZ in October and will be using GF. They are a lot cheaper than the rest of them and from all accounts, their product is good.

Was over in BHX the weekend. Took the 6.30am DUB-BHX on Saturday and the 7.00pm BHX-DUB last night. Have to say the crew were v. good. One thing I noted, was the breakfasts and pannis sold out on the flight (I got my panni!!!). Just looking, EI seem to be making plenty of money on there sky cafe. Have to say, I always find the range v .good. Now they have new pasta meals as well.

Was also reading DM's letter in the Cara magazine and from what I read, he is still fully committed to EI and does want to grow it. There was a mention of the E400m made from the sale, so I say it is making some amount of interest in a Bank account somewhere!!!.

Another point I have to make is, I flew FR to DUB last November and EI now and I know I would always favor EI over FR but I do honestly see a big difference in the two products. EI seem more professional, personal and provide good customer service. Flying again with EI next week to CDG so hopefully it is as good as the weekend!!
 
bx737
Posts: 612
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:12 pm

CPT is an interesting one and I would not be surprised to see it in due course. As I said in a previous post, cabin crew have agreed a fly anywhere agreement with the company and part of this is the rest areas on the A332s. This is one of the changes that OA260 was wondering about.

Regarding other routes Lagos could be a possibility. There would be a market for it I believe, but is there the will to play by Nigerian rules. I know that there are efforts in Nigeria to clamp down on this.Speaking of Lagos what is the story with Visionair?

I believe that Mexico and South American destinations are worth looking into. EI would need to work with local airlines in these markets to fully benefit and ensure seemless transfers.
 
Shamrock330
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:26 am

RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:23 pm

Quoting JWMD123 (Reply 36):
One thing I noted, was the breakfasts and pannis sold out on the flight (I got my panni!!!). Just looking, EI seem to be making plenty of money on there sky cafe

Don't EI crews earn a percentage of all sales from the skycafe? A relative of mine works in EI and I seem to remember him saying that they get a cut.

He also said that the Hertz partnership is under quite a bit of stress. Takeup of Hertz car rental via aerlingus.com is depressingly low, he mentioned a little less than 2%.

Quoting JWMD123 (Reply 36):
If the marketing is right, then it just might happen. I am heading to OZ in October and will be using GF. They are a lot cheaper than the rest of them and from all accounts, their product is good.

Thats true, but I suspect that Ireland is a price market, in that travellers choose the carrier based on price and price alone. GF are exceedingly cheap but I still think that if a European carrier can offer us a "bargain bucket" fare then we'll go with them as opposed to a ME carrier that few know much about.
GF are apparently superb in the premium classes but often very basic in Economy.

Anyway, you'll have to write us a trip report for EI and especially GF, theres no T.R from them on airliners.net!
 
keego
Posts: 187
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting Shamrock330 (Reply 38):
Anyway, you'll have to write us a trip report for EI and especially GF, theres no T.R from them on airliners.net!

I wont go into detail on a T.R. but I flew GF last week BKK-BAH-LHR and they were fantastic, the food was great, seats were comfy and the flights even though 7 1/2hrs each seemed to pass by really quickly. I also flew DUB-BAH-BKK in Dec with them on the way out. The only complaint id have (if you could call it a complaint) is the service is very slow. On the DUB-BAH flight it was more than an hour after the meal service started that I got mine and the other 3 flights were not much better.

Got to fly on the 332 with the special scheme tho  Smile.
 
kaitak
Topic Author
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:34 pm

I haven't heard anything about Visionair recently. I'm not even sure how serious they were when they first started. However, I have to say that I have some serious concerns about any prospects of a Lagos route. Firstly, is the demand there, FROM IRELAND?

Secondly, and at the risk of being accused of racism (not guilty!), Nigeria is a country from which we already get a large number of illegal immigrants. Also, given that corruption is rampant (and as an employee in the financial sector, I can tell you that most western banks SIMPLY WILL NOT DEAL with Nigeria, so endemic is the corruption), a question has to be asked: is Nigeria a country with which Ireland actually wants a bilateral aviation relationship.

Now, I know, in saying that, I run a risk of being flamed, but that's calling a spade a spade. There are many other countries with which we do want and need to have and build commercial, cultural and other relationships. Maybe in the future, when Nigeria mends its ways and illegal immigration is more effectively controlled, this can be considered, but right now, there are many other markets to consider.

As to Lufty and CPT, I noticed this. I haven't had a chance to look at their current schedule, but I believe that their return flight from CPT to FRA is an overnight; in other words, the aircraft is stuck at CPT all day. I've referred to that in the past and that's why I think that EI needs to introduce an Asian route first, with an evening departure, so that it can then have a day return and a flight which the homebound aircraft can then operate. If utilisation can be maximised, CPT could be a runner.
 
EIBoston
Posts: 409
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 34):
A321 doesn't have the range for it.

That was my first impression too Danny when I saw the original post but according to Airbus it could make the journey.

http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a320/a321/performance.html
 
rineanna
Posts: 768
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:33 am

RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:21 am

Quoting Shamrock330 (Reply 38):
He also said that the Hertz partnership is under quite a bit of stress. Takeup of Hertz car rental via aerlingus.com is depressingly low, he mentioned a little less than 2%.

That's a suprize. I was under the impression RYR are doing quite well from their partnership with Hertz in terms of ancillary revenues; I would have thought EI would have been the same.

Quoting JWMD123 (Reply 36):
their product is good.

That's for sure. Don't they have a sky chef and a nanny service onboard??
 
User avatar
OA260
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 40):
Secondly, and at the risk of being accused of racism (not guilty!), Nigeria is a country from which we already get a large number of illegal immigrants. Also, given that corruption is rampant (and as an employee in the financial sector, I can tell you that most western banks SIMPLY WILL NOT DEAL with Nigeria, so endemic is the corruption), a question has to be asked: is Nigeria a country with which Ireland actually wants a bilateral aviation relationship.

Its not racist ...its just the truth and common sense!!!! So dont worry about it LOL....if I see an email from Lagos it goes into trash instantly!!!


Re: Gulf Air . I have it on good authority that their loads in J are up now and on average 68% and in Y class 82% so not bad. They were looking at 4 to 5 flights a week as they thought they would have a spare A/C. Turns out now that they need to re fit the cabin of the BAH-BKK A/C as its out dated and in real need to new seats etc.... so the spare A/C is being used for BAH-BKK instead of DUB. This will be reviewed in March however. As discussed before about the EY route. GF are worried a bit as they know EY is willing to loose money on a route just so that they can say they fly there!!!

Im thinkin of doing a DUB-BAH in J maybe in June. If I do I will do a trip report incl pics. I only flew GF 6 years ago in J class to BKK but its totally changed now and looks alot better.
 
aerarann
Posts: 361
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:57 am

RE: AER LINGUS LONG HAUL USING A320/321

I found this interesting snippet, Stating how AC are using a 319 for LHR - Canada.

"Air Canada is reinstating the route from Heathrow to St John's in Newfoundland in April, but with a difference. Instead of deploying a long-haul Boeing 767, the carrier is using a short-haul jet, the Airbus A319 - the main type used by easyJet. And, as with no-frills airlines, the round-trip will be operated by the same crew. The entire round-trip, between departure from St John's and arrival back in Canada, lasts under 12 hours, including 75 minutes on the ground at Heathrow. The eastbound flight takes five hours, about the same as a Cyprus-UK hop. Travellers - and airline accountants - can treat the North Atlantic as a short-haul flight."

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/features/travel/article2175843.ece
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 2540
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RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting AerArann (Reply 44):
he entire round-trip, between departure from St John's and arrival back in Canada, lasts under 12 hours, including 75 minutes on the ground at Heathrow. The eastbound flight takes five hours, about the same as a Cyprus-UK hop. Travellers - and airline accountants - can treat the North Atlantic as a short-haul flight."

The key here is that the flight originates in ST. Johns. New York/Boston would be another two hours in each direction. So a there and back with one crew is perhpas a bit unrealistic. I believe that AC have a special config specially for this flight and Im also guessing that there is a reserve crew member(s) carried as well.

Its interesting to see that AC used the A319. This model has the longest range of all the A320 family. About 1000nm greater than the A321 IIRC. While airbus say that the A321 can do Paris-NY, I think that the load restrictions would be pretty sevre.

I dont think that the LHR-St. Johns route has a perticularly strong cargo volume or passenger demand either, one thread estimated 100-150 pax per day. But the traffic that is there is very high yield.
 
COEI2007
Posts: 837
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:33 am

RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 32):
With EY coming to DUB by the years end, *hopefully,* I see EI being kicked out of the market and GF staying.

No'one will bother with EI especially if they are still flying with such a poor premium product and little IFE throughout the entire aircraft. The only way EI can with-stand the EY service is if it quickly gets into talks with EK for a codeshare and FFP alliance.

Most people fly based on price. EI offers very good fares on flights to the Gulf, so I think they could hold their own. If they sorted out the transfers etc with EK, they could do well
 
EI787
Posts: 1230
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:06 am

RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:15 am

I found this article about the upcoming EY flights (I'm not sure if it has been posted before)

Quote:
UAE airline to decide on Dublin service

Released : Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:48 AM

One of the world's fastest-growing airlines may decide within weeks to begin direct flights between Dublin and Abu Dhabi, with onward connections to Australia and major centres in Asia.

Taoiseach Bertie Ahern yesterday held two hours of talks with James Hogan, chief executive of Etihad Airways, the Abu Dhabi-based national airline of the United Arab Emirates and other senior company executives.

The airline was established four years ago.

The direct flights, planned to run four times a week, would cut hours off the journey time to Australia and Asia for Irish travellers, who currently have to make two connections in Europe and Asia to reach Australian destinations.

Etihad executive Vijay Poonoosamy said the airline was "seriously considering" opening the service "in the near future - sometime this year", and that the issue would go to the company's board shortly.

The airline announced a week ago that it would begin daily flights to Australia from Abu Dhabi following a bilateral aviation agreement between the United Arab Emirates and the Australian government.

Etihad's growth, backed by the Abu Dhabi authorities, and nearby Dubai's decision to build a new airport capable of dealing with 120 million passengers a year, threatens to damage Heathrow and continental European airports' dominance of long-distance travel.

Abu Dhabi, the oil-rich capital of the United Arab Emirates, is the wealthiest of all of the seven emirates and is a 90-minute drive from Dubai. It is building a new airport which it intends to open within four years. The prospect of direct Abu Dhabi flights opens the possibility of three direct services between Dublin and the Gulf region, which is already served by Aer Lingus to Dubai, while Gulf Air serves Bahrain.

Etihad's chief executive, Mr Hogan, worked for Gulf Air in the same capacity up to recently.

The two airlines, along with Emirates Airlines, are in fierce competition as they strive to establish major hubs in the region.

Emirates, the Dubai-based carrier, is also considering opening a direct connection to Dublin, though sources close to the Taoiseach indicate this could be up to two years away.

Mr Ahern has directed Irish officials to discuss Etihad's requirements with the Dublin Airport Authority on their return to Dublin following the conclusion of a successful week-long trade mission to Saudi Arabia and Dubai since Monday.

Asked if there was a danger of too much capacity arriving too soon on the route, Mr Poonoosamy said Abu Dhabi intends to spend $136 billion (104 billion) on infrastructure over the next few years.

"From a business perspective, the opportunities that arise for Irish companies in the areas where they have an interest, or an edge, are really tremendous," he told The Irish Times yesterday.

In addition, Far East and Australian-bound travellers would find transiting through Abu Dhabi far easier than the choices currently offered by airlines, he suggested.

http://calibre.mworld.com/m/m.w?lp=GetStory&id=238001361
 
COEI2007
Posts: 837
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:33 am

RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting EI787 (Reply 47):
Mr Ahern has directed Irish officials to discuss Etihad's requirements with the Dublin Airport Authority on their return to Dublin following the conclusion of a successful week-long trade mission to Saudi Arabia and Dubai since Monday.

This says it all. Dublin' supposed the be loosing wide-body stands, so whats it going to do with an EY A330?????????
 
Shamrock330
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:26 am

RE: Clear The Way For The Flying Irish: Thread 5/07!

Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 48):
Dublin' supposed the be loosing wide-body stands, so whats it going to do with an EY A330?????????

Indeed it will loose widebody stands when work begins on that farcicle of a terminal, but anyway it can only facilitate three long haul aircraft as it stands. Can you believe that they're tearing down the newest section of Dublin airport, pier C, the only modern section in use.

Sometimes I see Air Canada's B767 on stand at Pier A. I'm not sure how many regular stands are lost when its parked, but I would imagine that its two possibly three ( seen as those stands are RE's). With the likely edition of Etihad , perhaps their A330 could be housed at Pier A?

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