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rampart
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting ArcrftLvr (Reply 92):
The personal attacks lend a lot of credibility to your argument. However, par for the course with your types; when you are wrong, you guys love the personal attacks...Brainless dittohead? I love it...

I hope you are joking, because I was -- taking the other extreme to prove a point, which I hope you saw. No more personally attacking than you were. Par for the course, right? As credible as you, right? Am I "wrong", or do I simply have an equally relevant opinion? Tell you what, I'll use smileys and rolly eyes more often if you do the same, so I can remind myself that you aren't serious.

edit: Sorry, meant to mention that my original use of "you" wasn't intended to literally you, but to "if you are a good parent..." in the generic sense. I still feel the same, but did not mean to single you out. Take offense only if you feel that you qualify to my extreme example!

-Rampart

[Edited 2007-01-24 03:15:22]
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 150):
I really dislike replies like this. Become a parent first before you reply.

So your opinion only matters if you're a parent? How tolerant of you...  sarcastic 
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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AY104
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:51 am

Hopefully this will set a precedent. I've been on flights where small children kick up such a fuss, and the parents just sit idly by and watch or, which is even worse, ignore. I take a very dim view of parents who refuse to discipline their children. Unfortunately, there is very little can be done about it, I only see it getting much worse.
Cheers,
AY104
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
 
AY104
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:59 am

Imagine the airline giving them compensation for a thing like that! I am sure Air Trans is absolutely heart-broken that those folks will never fly with them again - not! It is absolutely unimaginable that people like that would expect that 112 inconvenience passengers would go along with nonsense like that, just sit by while they solve their domestic problems. Totally on the side of Air Trans for that one, except that they compensated the family with free tickets. To me that is admitting guilt on their part, and basically telling the rest of society that it is acceptable behaviour, and if anyone else cares to put on the same production they too will be rewarded! What a load of BS! It just goes to show how totally ridiculous society has become. There is absolutely nothing in place to protect the person who wishes to go quietly about his/her business and expect a reasonable amount of peace, quiet and solitude. Cannot see the problem getting any better, though. I really was on the side of the airline in this case, but as far as I am concerned they botched it by giving the freebies!
Cheers,
AY104
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
 
thunder9
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 58):
The federal regulations are what they are. 3 years and up, in their own seat

Not quite. FAA regs require any person who has reached their second birthday to have their own seat. Lap children are those that are under the age of two years.

-J

P.S. - My apologies if this was already pointed out, but I didn't have time to read the last 100 or so replies!  drool 
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AC345
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:16 pm

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 150):
Become a parent first before you reply.

And I really dislike answers like this. It's a parent's job to be in charge of their children. If they can't be in charge of a 3-year old, maybe they should not have become a parent in the first place. I see almost every day "parents" in my office that should not have been parents. When your 2-year old daughter hits you and all you can do is to ineffectualy whine: "sweetie, don't hit mommy, mommy hurts too", maybe mommy should be hit a lot harder to wake up and realize that she's a parent and it's her job to raise a human being not Damien.

So for all the parents who can't control their kids, I say learn to, cut the "become a parent first" crap, or get off the plane with your misbehaved children.
 
AY104
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:16 pm

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 150):
I really dislike replies like this. Become a parent first before you reply.Seems to me Air Tran admitted wrong doing by comping their flights AND giving them another set of free tickets.

Please read my reply AY156. Behaviour like this as exhibited by the parents is totally unacceptable. It is ridiculous that they would expect their child's behaviour to be an acceptable reason for any airline to take a delay, and to inconvenience other passengers, not just for the time on the ground, but also the possibility of missed connections at the arriving city. Who is going to compensate the airline and the passengers who miss their connections. Do I see the parents waving their hands in the air saying "We'll pay!" This type of nonsense whereby people cannot handle their domestic problems without affecting the rest of society is becoming worse and worse, totally unacceptable, and just shows us how ridiculous society in general has become. To even think for one second that that episode was in the least bit acceptable is ludicrous.
Cheers,
AY104
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
 
Boeing727flyer
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:22 pm

Funnily enough I am able to control a 5 year old child from misbehaving on an aicraft not only have I done it but I works. Give them something to do. Works every time - well we were all children once
Hail the mighty Boeing 727
 
MD11Canada
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:30 pm

Hey

I am a new member to Airliners.net, but I have enjoyed the website for about 2 years.

I have to agree with AirTran for giving the boot to the family. The FAA have rules for a reason and for our safety. I also get annoyed with crying or bratty kids on flights when I am aboard.
 
BrandonB
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:41 pm

Parents are going to have to learn that a belt or a hand can be a great tool to deal with bad children if they are used appropriately. That girl was a brat and the parents don't know anything about dealing with brats and need to learn.
 
rdhamr309
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 6):
Before this turns into a kid bashing thread....

That is a perfect train of thought,i thought the same thing.
rdhamr309
 
AC345
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:16 pm

Quoting Brandonb (Reply 163):
Parents are going to have to learn that a belt or a hand can be a great tool to deal with bad children if they are used appropriately.

I fully agree. I find it deplorable what passes for education these days. God forbid that you give your brat a slap, you might emotionally scar him/her for the rest of their life. Never say anything negative, never utter "no" in front of a child because again emotional trauma and countless years on the couch loom large in his future.

Meanwhile I got the belt and the hand as a kid in adequate dosages at the right time, I'm a successful doctor and never felt the urge to blame my parents for anything that went wrong in my life. In fact I thank them every single day for the education they gave me. I strongly believe that children need somebody to respect, somebody to be in charge and lead them down the path to becoming a complete person. They don't need their parent to be a friend and a confidant especially at earlier ages, that's why they have their friends and peers.
 
aogdesk
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:04 pm

The kid was THREE. If you're a parent of a 3 year old, you pick up your kid and put him/her into the seat. Period.
 
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flybynight
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:10 pm

Quoting AC345 (Reply 156):
When your 2-year old daughter hits you and all you can do is to ineffectualy whine: "sweetie, don't hit mommy, mommy hurts too", maybe mommy should be hit a lot harder to wake up and realize that she's a parent and it's her job to raise a human being not Damien.


Different strokes for different folks. My two daugthers are and will be well behaved.
But for most of the kids who post on this board (actually looking at your age, you are not a kid) who are trying to give parental advise is pretty silly.
There is more to this story, if not the airline wouldn't have paid the family. The are just praying this is the end of the story. I have no problem getting my 6 year old to sit in a plane when she needs to. In fact it has never been a problem and she has been all over the World. There is more to this story.

[Edited 2007-01-24 06:12:28]
Heia Norge!
 
tsaord
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:39 pm

To think they want to ban spankings in California. I'm glad I got spanked when I tried to throw a tantrum...

I say good job to FL who seem to have handled this very professionally. Now can we kick these folks out of the airport before I have to witness another child running all over the place untill the automatic door takes em out?
there are icons, then there are legends, then there is rick flair
 
iairallie
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:37 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 56):
I heard one DL F/A utter once that; "too many parents think a 738 or 752 is a Mormon Chapel and let their kids run wild up and down the isle!"

Tell me about it I just moved to SLC and am horrified when I go to my Mom's family ward. I would never have gotten away with that kinda nonsense rolling around on the floor running up and down the aisles shouting. Very embarrassing to me as a LDS person that we've developed this rep. in the airline world. I have FA friends who avoid SLC flights like the plague.

Quoting Boeing727flyer (Reply 94):
Seems to me that most of you have not got any children or you would understand it is not always that easy.


I don't have kids but I substitute teach and am the oldest of 5 kids with the youngest two young enough to be mine. I get that kids even kids with great parents have tantrums especially between the age 1-4. That doesn't mean safety should be compromised on an aircraft. Any passenger who is incapable of following the rules should be removed and placed on a later flight when they've calmed down. My brother and sister know if they start to pull something I will follow through with them the fun will end real quick and as a result everyone is happier they because they feel secure with boundaries, me because the time we spend together is spent having fun.

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 100):
At the end of the day, the child was one of the passengers and the responsibility of the FAs as well as her parents.

Have you ever tried disciplining someone elses kids? How about just making a suggestion? Do it and see how quickly that parent goes ballistic. People are VERY sensitive when it comes to their kids. As an FA I am there to provide for the safety and comfort of the majority. I do try to head off problems when I see small kids on a flight by providing distractions, snacks and other items to keep my little customers happy (things some parents do not think of). However I am not there to babysit I can't undo years of bad parenting in one short flight. If the kid becomes a problem for my other guests or doesn't follow safety rules then they are subject to the same consequences as anyone else.

Quoting Goomba (Reply 106):
Kids 10 and under should not be allowed in a premium cabin - PERIOD.

I disagree. Parents do need to know thier kids and carefully evaluate whether they are mature enought though. If I were a parent and midflight my child started acting up in a premium cabin. I would give them an ultimatum shape up or we head right back to economy and trade seats with passengers who know how to behave appropriately. I would never make premium passengers suffer through a long haul flight. I flew alone, went to broadway plays, symphonies, the ballet, art shows, nice restaurants and other adult functions as a young child because I could handle it my sister on the other hand didn't get to go until she was older because she didn't develop good public manners as quickly.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
WesternA318
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:55 pm

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 166):
Tell me about it I just moved to SLC and am horrified when I go to my Mom's family ward.

Welcome to SLC IAirAllie!
 
AC345
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:57 pm

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 164):
Different strokes for different folks. My two daugthers are and will be well behaved.
But for most of the kids who post on this board (actually looking at your age, you are not a kid) who are trying to give parental advise is pretty silly.
There is more to this story, if not the airline wouldn't have paid the family. The are just praying this is the end of the story. I have no problem getting my 6 year old to sit in a plane when she needs to. In fact it has never been a problem and she has been all over the World. There is more to this story.

First of all please drop the condescending attitude, at almost 40 I'm not a kid and my point of view is not silly. It is a no-nonsense point of view, exactly the same one my parents had when it came to raising us, and I thank them for that.

Just because I don't have children doesn't mean I cannot have a valid point of view and I can be silenced by any unskilled parent (and I'm not saying that you are, that's not the point of this discussion). Just because somebody successfully procreated doesn't automatically make them a good parent.

I treat almost daily children, I was trained to deal with them and I know all too well the difference between a truly frightened child and a brat whose parent is an enabler, and believe me I see a lot of the latter kind. It is this type of kid and this type of parent that I have no patience and understanding for, especially when compared to the great ones (children and the parents that got them to be that way).

So do not belittle my point of view or anybody's who doesn't have a child. Good for you that you raised your daughter right, more reason not to get all patronizing and righteous. And no, I don't think there's more to this story, it's as simple as that: ill mannered child misbehaves, unskilled and permissive parents can't cope, they get kicked out of plane. No need to get Freud involved here.
 
Gasman
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:57 pm

[quote=AnneTooh,reply=67]I suppose there are a lot of people in here with either no kids or at least easy kids.

I had an essential flight with our daughter when she was 6 months old and there was no way avoiding to fly with her at that time. It was a long haul flight from KL to FRA and she was screaming most of the time. We did whatever we could, as much as we could and we felt like shit for doing this flight, for having to do this flight. We felt extremely sorry for all the fellow passengers (it was even in business class on the upper deck of a 747), we felt ashamed and useless. After the flight we walked out of the plane as if after a trip to hell. I don't know what the other passengers felt like but I'm sure some must have hated us. Funnily enough one lady a few rows back helped us and we became good friends.

Our daughter turned out to be an extremely difficult child, screaming more often than I could see it with any other child yet. We could never leave her alone for longer than a few seconds, when she threw a tantrum there was no way of calming her down, she literally hurt herself physically with the spasms she had during those times. Some tantrums lasted as long as 2 hours.


One of the very few intelligent and balanced posts on this thread. I suspect many respondents here either don't have kids, or have easy kids (and believe they are truly a result of their totally brilliant parenting).

I have three kids. They have all had the same parenting which in no way involves with-holding discipline. One of my children from birth has been difficult, and as a young child had frequent uncontrollable tantrums. She did once scream her head off prior to take off on a LAX-AKL flight, and the crew were attentive and empathic. At the age of 9, she's now great. Another of my children has rarely needed to be even spoken harshly to. Her aim in life seems solely to please adults. Cynics might call her a suck-up. My third child, at the age of 1, also seems unique but happy and well adjusted.

My point is, and there is plenty of evidence to support this, is that early behaviour patterns are determined by "nature" and not "nurture". Parenting techniques are crucial, but they will not transform an impossible child into a predictably obedient angel.

So while most of us agree the airline acted appropriately, and I'm sure handled the situation as sensitively as they could, let's give this family a break. They were no doubt embarrassed beyond belief.
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:12 pm

A small slat on the bum, hurts no one and believe me it stops the nonsense right away. I am fed up with being told what parents can and cannot do, they are our children and I think that we should bring them up the way we want. However having said that I do not agree with over use of the slap on the bum, I think that it should be used only when necessary. I have raised two kids and am helping to raise two grand kids and they are all turning out the right way, not like some of their counterparts, raised in the no touch households. I say enough of the c**p that is going on. LEAVE PARENTING TO THE PARENTS AND NOT THE GOVERNMENT
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
skywatch
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting Mush (Reply 8):
Why on Earth did Airtran offer them three roundtrip tickets? That has to be the dumbest effing thing I've heard this year...a brat child and her parents delay a flight, cause a disruption, and inconvenience over a hundred other people amongst other things and get offered free tickets.

It's pretty simple really....the company knew that without reimbursement, a lawsuit was soon to follow.

A very good move on FL's part!

---Skywatch
------Forever Watchin' The Sky------
 
contrails
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 2):
The crew was right. But what parents are these? Why couldn't they force their brat into the seat?

My thoughts exactly! FL was right to toss them off the plane, but they were VERY wrong to suck up to them afterwards and offer them a free trip.

Parents are supposed to raise their kids, not the other way around.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
UPS Pilot
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 170):
A small slat on the bum, hurts no one and believe me it stops the nonsense right away. I am fed up with being told what parents can and cannot do, they are our children and I think that we should bring them up the way we want. However having said that I do not agree with over use of the slap on the bum, I think that it should be used only when necessary. I have raised two kids and am helping to raise two grand kids and they are all turning out the right way, not like some of their counterparts, raised in the no touch households. I say enough of the c**p that is going on. LEAVE PARENTING TO THE PARENTS AND NOT THE GOVERNMENT

Pan Am,

You have my respect sir. Todays parents are raising kids that know how to work the system. They don't know the meaning of work, respect and manners. I'm 38 and am a single parent. I'm gone a couple of weeks and home a couple of weeks a month. When I'm gone my Ex wife has our son. WE both were raised with old fashioned values that somehow went by the wayside. Our son is 6 and he knows the difference between right and wrong. He has been spanked but only a few times in his life. The important thing is he is respectful of his elders and others. My son has had a frequent flyer number since he was a year old. He has flown many times and never once had a behaviour issue on a flight. I had a problem one time with US Airways which I will not fly with them due to poor customer service. I was flying with my son. We were delayed a few hours in CLT. He got sick and he was a year and a half old. He vomited all over him and I. I went to US Airways knowing we had another 3 hours to board and asked if we could get our luggage to change. They had an attitude about it and would not. Thats fine I understand that everything would have to be rescreened. So we searched around the airport for some clothing for myself and my year old child. We boarded the flight that was full. We had a middle seat and he was a lap child. Again he was ill. Well we taxied away from the gate and had a ground stop. The ground stop was over 2 hours on the ramp. I asked the flight attendant for some water to give to my son. She said they could not provide it until thay started beverage service. So 3 and a half hours later my son finally got his water. That was enough for me and US Airways.
 
Electech6299
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 113):
I take it neither of you two are parents

Actually they are, and so am I, and they only repeated what I said.

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 124):
This is a typical behavior of a group of people in US that is know as the tralier trash. You do not need to be in a trailer to fall into this group. These specific kind of people lack culture, common sense and respect for others.

How detestable! I am appalled at your lack of culture, you should be banned from this forum for comments like that. I cannot believe that you would denigrate the people who dwell in trailer homes by comparing them to self-centered liberals...  Wink Actually, with the exception of the welfare hogs, trailer folk are quite courteous and have far more common sense than I find in the urban jungles...

Quoting RedChili (Reply 137):
When reading the article, I get the impression that the flight was 15 minutes delayed for other reasons that had nothing to do with this child, and for that reason the airline chose to throw the family off the airplane as quickly as possible. By doing this, it is actually entirely possible that they actually delayed the plane even further. Telling a family to get off the airplane, arguing with them for a couple of minutes about this decision, waiting for them to gather all their belongings from the overhead bins, and then let them deplane will take several minutes.

Not to mention pulling any checked luggage, which would add another 5-10 minutes on the ground. I agree that removing the pax was not the most expedient course of action. However, as to your other points,...

Quoting RedChili (Reply 137):
The AirTran spokeswoman said, "The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family." She did not say that the plane was 15 minutes delayed because of the child. If that 15 minute delay had been caused by the child, she would probably have used another wording to make it clear that AirTran had already been patient with them for a long time.

The mother also said, "We weren't giving an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything." Notice that she did not say that "we were not given enough time," but: "We were not given any opportunity." The parents obviously know their own child, and maybe they knew that they could have calmed her down in a couple of minutes?

This article was written by reporters who interviewed the parents, and got the story from their lips. I hate to break it to you, reporters are not in the business of giving unbiased commentary or balanced perspective. That's boring, and doesn't make money for the news agency. The reporters and editors wrote the story in the way that would grab the most attention. If this is the most controversial opinion, I'd say this story has had far more attention than it's worth.

Quoting Jcs17 (Reply 140):
Operative word: Business. People pay extra for the peace and quiet of that cabin, especially on long-haul flights. Its just not right to subject other travelers who have paid an astronomical fare to a screaming kid all flight.

Operative word: Business. Not first, not private travelers. These people did not pay astronomical fares, their company paid their fares and they used their FF miles to upgrade. Your sense that business travelers should ave the world at their feet at the expense of families is just as much a part of the problem here. Business should be at the service of the family, the basic unit of community, not at the expense of it. Unruly and unloved kids come from inattentive business-oriented parents far more than from any political leanings. If I had the money, I would much rather have the spacious seats, IFE, and room for my kids' toy bags in 1st or Biz, where my kids would be much less likely to complain.

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 147):
Children aren't minature adults, and sometimes they just don't get to make choices. That's life.

Oh boy, you mean when I get to be an adult, I'll be able to choose every aspect of my life! That sounds great- I can't wait to grow up! Oh boy oh boy oh boy!  Smile

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 149):
I really dislike replies like this. Become a parent first before you reply.
Seems to me Air Tran admitted wrong doing by comping their flights AND giving them another set of free tickets.

I am a parent, as are many others here, and we do not appreciate your condescending attitude. As to the airline "admitting wrongdoing", that is way off base and has been addressed ad nauseum on this thread. The debate is only whether the airline did it for Loss Prevention (preventing a lawsuit or reinforcing their legal position), pure publicity, or whether it was actually motivated by Customer Service.

Quoting AY104 (Reply 153):
I've been on flights where small children kick up such a fuss, and the parents just sit idly by and watch or, which is even worse, ignore.



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 138):
Growing up my parents never touched me...they also ignored my outbursts when I was very young (lesson: Not the right way to get parent's attention)

Hmmm, the "ignoring" bit is being employed by both sides now. So is ignoring a tantrum good or not?  Wink
(don't answer that)

Quoting MD11Canada (Reply 159):
Hey

I am a new member to Airliners.net, but I have enjoyed the website for about 2 years.

Welcome to the jungle. Why on earth would you jump in to this mess? There's plenty of healthy A vs. B and US vs. EU going on elsewhere!  Wink

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 164):
There is more to this story, if not the airline wouldn't have paid the family.

Yes, there's more to this story- we only see the parents version. I'd like to see the PNRs.... As I said in my earlier post, the parents chose to argue with the FA, and that is why they got removed. If they had buckled her in the seat, she may have screamed for a few minutes (or maybe the entire flight), but the family would have flown. There is no excuse for the parents arguing with the FA, even if she may have been rude (which is implied, I'm surprised nobody noticed). Again, we need both sides to know what really happened, I suspect it is a set of parents who thought the A319 was no different than a restaurant, and thought they had the liberty to let their 3-year old do what she wanted. Of course the press and the lawsuit are the only tools these parents have to overcome their mistake.

Quoting Gasman (Reply 169):
My point is, and there is plenty of evidence to support this, is that early behaviour patterns are determined by "nature" and not "nurture". Parenting techniques are crucial, but they will not transform an impossible child into a predictably obedient angel.

Good point, but I might refine your wording (if I may)- behavior patterns are determined by nature AND nurture. Plenty of good-natured kids have been born into neglect and suffered from it. But no, parenting techniques will not produce the same results in different children.
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:38 pm

Quoting Cubastar (Reply 21):
Then take the child off of the airplane, calm her down, and get rebooked on a later flight.

I agree. Yes, I know kids have tantrums. However, sometimes the best thing a parent can do is remove the kid from the situation.

I don't have kids, but my mother has a mental disability that makes her act like a child. She throws fits and cannot be reasoned with, and will hit and pinch if she does not want to comply. In these situations I have learned that it is best for me just to remove her from the situation. Yes, I may have paid for something that doesn't get finished, but it is better for her and for everyone else to bail out.

Quoting Corsair2 (Reply 24):
AirTran isn't exactly the model of customer service in the industry.

Source please?
 
Blasphemystic
Posts: 197
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RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:41 pm

This same thing happened to me on a CO flight from EWR-MCO. My son who was 2 years and 4 months old at the time, didn't want to sit in his own seat.

The flight attendant would not let him sit on my wifes or my lap. They insisted he sit in his own seat or we must leave the aircraft. After holding up the plane for about 10 minutes, they said we have to get off. I tried talking to them but they would not listen.

Finally we came to an agreement where he sat in his seat, but had his head on my wifes lap. During the flight the flight attendant, who I thought was being a little unreasonable at first came and talked to us and gave my son some juice and some cookies and made sure he was ok.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2372
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:44 pm

Send the yuppie larvae to Singapore. The cane is the answer.
Send the parents to boot-camp for morons. mad 

I had at least one flight where I was lucky enough to have a twit and her spoiled brat removed to the rear of the aircraft to torture each other. These days flights are just too full.

Deny boarding or kick 'em off at the next available stop------and send 'em a bill for any costs incurred.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
airtran717
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:48 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:18 am

From the standpoint of a crew member, which I was for 8 years... FL has a three strikes policy. If you cannot/do not compy within three requests, you are off the plane. If they could not control thier child, that could potentially create a safety issue for the child and the flight. I am glad they took the family off the plane. I would have done the exact same thing.


717
 
Baron52ta
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:52 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:48 am

Quote from the mother.."Elly was sitting in front of our seat crying," she said in a phone interview.

This seems to be a good reason for the child to upset, why was she in front of them and not beside one of her parents and the other parent in front.
But I do understand the airlines feelings on the unruley child it can't move the plane with passengers of any age out of their seats.
 
jepstein
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:06 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:55 am

Why in the world was this kid crying in the first place????? Whenever I am about to get on a plane I'm happy as a clam!  biggrin   biggrin 
 
rampart
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 145):
And on the OTHER "other hand," needlessly delaying the flight for ANOTHER 15 minutes so these parents could get the child under control could potentially disrupt the connections of the 112 other people onboard, meaning THEY could possibly totally miss a vacation, wedding, funeral, or weekend with grandma.

Yes, I completely agree. It is tough, and I sympathize with the parents, but that's why I mentioned earlier that the family needed to see the larger picture, the consequences. I do think Airtran took the correct necessary action, and then went the extra effort to try to accommodate the family.

-Rampart
 
mush
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:01 pm

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:21 am

Quoting Skywatch (Reply 171):
It's pretty simple really....the company knew that without reimbursement, a lawsuit was soon to follow.

A lawsuit for what? This child caused a disruption on board a scheduled flight and Airtran has every right to remove them from the aircraft.

People can file all of the lawsuits they want, but in my opinion this one would be without merit and Airtran could ask for summary judgement and get the case tossed. Now people can say that it's cheaper to give this brat kid and family free tickets, but it's more expensive in the long run giving every Tom, Dick, and Harry free tickets even though Airtran is without fault.

Also, in the article it states that the family was refunded the ~$600 for the three tickets. Why did Airtran refund the full ticket price? Airtran kept their end of the transaction by flying these three Kuleszas on the first leg of the trip; why should these three get all of their money back? They should have been refunded the prorated portion of the flight not taken.

thanks,
mush
Sprung from cages out on highway 9
 
tonyban
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:55 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:51 am

I recall a few years back, a flight attendant slipped a Zanax anti-depressant tablet into a child's drink on board a flight. The child had been a nuiscance during the flight. The flight attendant was fired but the remedy sure did work.
I don't agree with it though !!!
 
richierich
Moderator
Posts: 3629
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting AnneTooh (Reply 67):
I suppose there are a lot of people in here with either no kids or at least easy kids.

There are a lot of people in here that don't even have pubic hairs yet.

Quoting Goomba (Reply 106):
If you travel with little ones...you are absolutely, positively sitting in steerage class. No ifs, ands or buts.

What a stupid comment. If you pay for the ticket, kids can sit wherever. Grow up.
With that said, kids that cannot be brought under control after a reasonable amount of time should be excused from the flight. However, I would think it has to be more than just the occasional outburst, it has to be a verifiable safety hazard to warrant removal from the plane. If that's what happened on FL, then they did the right thing.

Quoting Goomba (Reply 106):
Business travelers fly way too much and pay way too much to do it to be kept up all night on a 10 hour trans-Atlantic journey.

Two words: tough sh!t.
You were a kid once as well, and probably still are.
None shall pass!!!!
 
AA787823
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:27 pm

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:55 am

Great move by FL. I applaud them and back that 100%, the little brat was delaying other passengers. The fact that Airtran offerd free tickets as compensation was very generous. The family was way out of line, as was their little brat.
F.U.R.P.....Families Under Reduced Pay
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:57 am

OK, since no one has said this yet...

GET THESE MOTHERF***ING TODDLERS OFF THIS MOTHERF***ING PLANE!

But seriously, these parents have no right to delay over 100 other passengers because their child is out of control. While I recognize that it can be really difficult to calm down a child who is throwing a tantrum, and that sometimes kids just act up, if the parents had practiced a firm, fair, and consistent discipline policy, their child would be a lot less likely to act up. They should have gotten off the plane and taken the next flight, after their child had calmed down. And if the kid has a problem with flying in general, well, that's their problem. That's the risk you run when you choose to have kids. You just have to live with that, and not expect society to change to help you out.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 189):
Quoting Goomba (Reply 106):
Business travelers fly way too much and pay way too much to do it to be kept up all night on a 10 hour trans-Atlantic journey.

Two words: tough sh!t.
You were a kid once as well, and probably still are.

Don't you think there are places where kids should not be, or are you one of those people who bring their kids to the bar.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
nycfuturepilot
Posts: 773
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:50 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting DSMflyer (Reply 4):
Quote:The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and offered them three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said.

But that's too little, too late for the Kuleszas. The father said they would never fly AirTran again.

Bet they use the free tickets though lol
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
rdwelch
Posts: 449
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:52 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 191):
OK, since no one has said this yet...

There's a good reason why, it's called tact.

Gus
They say I have ADD, but they don't understand..Oh look! A chicken!
 
mush
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:01 pm

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:31 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 192):

Don't you think there are places where kids should not be, or are you one of those people who bring their kids to the bar.

I think there are a lot of places a kid shouldn't be. A bar, a nuclear power plant, inside a smoke stack while it's in use or being cleaned...funny though that I don't think a plane is a good example of a place where a kid shouldn't be.

Why shouldn't kids be allowed to sit wherever they want in a plane?

I don't think business people should be on a plane...they keep yapping away on their cell phones until the last minute, then they keep me up the whole flight by hammering away at the keys on their laptops...it's annoying...don't you think there are places where business people should not be?

Yeah, it's a stupid statement and question just like yours regarding the kids not being able to sit whatever class they pay for.


thanks

P.S. Yes, I'm being sarcastic with respect to the business people not flying statement...sometimes it doesn't come across in print.
Sprung from cages out on highway 9
 
WNCrew
Posts: 992
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:22 pm

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 189):
Business travelers fly way too much and pay way too much to do it to be kept up all night on a 10 hour trans-Atlantic journey.

I know thi sis a bit off topic and I appologize however;
Correct me if I am wrong but don't your COMPANIES pay for your tickets? Not YOU directly?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
richierich
Moderator
Posts: 3629
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 196):
Correct me if I am wrong but don't your COMPANIES pay for your tickets? Not YOU directly?

Hey, that's not my quote. It's Gooomba's.
None shall pass!!!!
 
PanAmOldDC8
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting UPS Pilot (Reply 173):
Again he was ill. Well we taxied away from the gate and had a ground stop. The ground stop was over 2 hours on the ramp. I asked the flight attendant for some water to give to my son. She said they could not provide it until thay started beverage service. So 3 and a half hours later my son finally got his water. That was enough for me and US Airways.

Thank you for your comment, I think that the way the handled your son was bloody terrible, there is nothing like a sick child. I have a story to tell you. Many years ago when my kids were 3 and 4 years old, we were returning from a holiday in Montreal via YYZ. Having got to YYZ we had to transfer to the flt to BGI. When I got to the counter I asked the girl about the time we had left. We then checked in, only to find out that they had us seated throughout the plane with one of the kids (3 years old) in the read another one in the middle(4 years old) and the two of us forward. When I booked the tickets in BGI I gave the ages of the kids, which were also on the ticket stub. I drew this to the attention of the lady only to be informed that we could sort it out on board, as the flight was full and there was nothing she could do. A t this point I blew my stack and asked her if I was going to fly with my two young kids not seated near us, she said that was my problem. I am a gentle person not given to trying to throttle someone, but believe me that day I came close, they even called security. The end result of this story was that the shift manager, who I had asked for before and was told he was busy, came on the scene. Realising how upset I was and that I flew Air Canada quite a lot on business and other wise, upgraded us all to First Class and issued me with a free flight voucher for the next time I used Air Canada. Now if that young lady had handled me properly this would never have happened, but her stance was I don't really care what happens as long as I can get out of here. The thing that got my goat was the fact that the kids ages were on the ticket as well as on the boarding list, so the lady did not care enough when loading the pax(in those days they didn't preassign seats) to check and make sure she assigned the right seats, so we could have 4 together. Even the manager said that the way she loaded the flight was wrong. That I must say put me off Air Canada for years, and have only recently started using them again
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
b737700doctor
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:06 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:25 am

I just watched the video. It sounds like these people just wanted to get on tv to me. Just watch that show on A&E about southwest and tell me that FL are the only ones that do this. I bet every airline has done this once or twice good for you FL!
Boeings are the best built planes
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 86):
The flight crew did *NOTHING* except stand there ... and the dad finally opened his wallet and started to give me like $30 to buy me a new shirt. After I showed him the tag of the designer .... $30 was no where near sufficient enough ... and I'm pretty sure then that the incident wiped out a great deal of their traveler's cheques

Nobody gives a rat's behind about your designer (and implied very expensive) clothing. And I'd bet the label didn't mean a thing to the guy unless you told him how much you had paid for the shirt.

While I totally think the parents were at fault, this dad shows a little bit of good character. Most guys would just puff up and dare you to say another word...you know what i mean?

He was above average in that he recognized he was responsible for thier behavior and tried to make it right.

[Edited 2007-01-24 19:58:28]
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Thread starter):
Family couldn't control their toddler and crew kicks them off the flight. Parents claim they weren't given ample time to calm their child down. Thoughts?

Silly business.

Quoting Jcs17 (Reply 1):
Should be done more often.

I agree

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 5):
People need to learn to control their demon spawn or leave them at home. Some parents are so pathetic these days.

This is the result of the culture of non-parenting, non-discipline and instant gratification.
One Nation Under God
 
User avatar
flybynight
Posts: 1535
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting AC345 (Reply 168):
First of all please drop the condescending attitude, at almost 40 I'm not a kid and my point of view is not silly

Please read me ENTIRE post when I said you are not kid. It's right there in black and white (well I guess blue and white on this website). Geez.
If you read through 99% of these posts they are all against this family. It is one sided.
The irony of it is that I'm trying point out there is likely more to this. In return for this I get lambasted by especially you. Why?

It reminds of when there is air crash. Sometime people make an assumption that it was pilot error or mechanical error. Immediately the aviation nuts get on your case for even trying voice your opinion or for jumping to conclusions. Once again one sided. If you state a different opinion you must be wrong, or an idiot or basically a modern day Hitler.

I fly a substantial amount and it is pretty rare to run into parents who are so clueless that they can't have some degree of control over their children. Based on this, I think there is more to this story.
Why does everyone automatically take viewpoint that the parents were wrong and the airline was correct in their actions.
Open your minds a little and be open to other possibilites.
Heia Norge!
 
User avatar
flybynight
Posts: 1535
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 174):
am a parent, as are many others here, and we do not appreciate your condescending attitude. As to the airline "admitting wrongdoing", that is way off base and has been addressed ad nauseum on this thread. The debate is only whether the airline did it for Loss Prevention (preventing a lawsuit or reinforcing their legal position), pure publicity, or whether it was actually motivated by Customer Service.

Where is the proof of that? How do you know the flight crew didn't go overboard? You are assuming they didn't and you are assuming the article is biased towards the family.
Maybe they were, but it is likely they weren't as well.
Heia Norge!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8986
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:22 am

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 203):
Why does everyone automatically take viewpoint that the parents were wrong and the airline was correct in their actions.

Well, the article appears to have put forward the parents' best case. It says that: (1) The FAs wouldn't let them have the kid in their lap, which the parents thought wasn't right to do; and (2) The FAs told them that they had to get control of their kid immediately. That appears to be the sum and substance of their beef. They didn't tell the reporter that the FAs somehow induced the kid to misbehave; indeed, the parents don't appear to have denied that the kid was climbing under and around the seats, throwing a tantrum, and striking the mother. They just believed that they should have been given more time to get the kid under control and/or let the kid sit in their lap, and that the airline was wrong not to do one of those two things rather than exit them off the flight.

Both proposals by the parents put their own convenience and comfort ahead of the comfort, convenience and safety of the other passengers. That they so willingly wanted others to put up with that really makes the equities of this deal pretty clear to me.

My 2 cents, anyway.

[FWIW: The whole reason that you don't let kids above 2 sit in parents' laps is that the kid becomes a missle in any kind of rapid deceleration and/or major turbulence. While I personally believe that lap kids should be completely banned for that reason, apparently the FAA has decided that a 2-year-old-sized missle is acceptable whereas a bigger one isn't. In either event, studies have shown that the parent can't actually hold the kid against the force of deceleration or severe turbulence -- even though they all think that they can -- so it's a dangerous deal for the parent, the kid and the other passengers. (Of course, we can all become turbulence-missles if we're not belted and the flight encounters unexpected turbulence, which is why we're encouraged to belt up in flight, but at least everyone's protected in the event of anticipated turbulence.) Bottom line is that the airline scrupulously followed an FAA safety reg, and can't be faulted for that. With regard to making everyone else possibly miss their conx so these folks could continue to try to control their uncontrollable kid...sorry, I think that the other 100+ folks on the aircraft deserve better than that. I'm glad to see that they got it. I wouldn't doubt it if there wasn't applause when the family was disembarked. I sure would have been one of the applauders.]
 
fpofllflyboi
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:30 pm

RE: Family Gets Kicked Off FL Plane Due To Tantrum

Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:56 am

"The father said they would never fly AirTran again."


And the world takes a collective sigh of relief.  relieved 

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