AA To Embargo All Nrsa Travel To/from Europe

AA787823 · Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:49 pm

Got an APS this afternoon. Beginning 1/24 AA will embargo all NRSA travel to/from Europe due to the BA strike. It is important that AA employees be able to focus on our customers as well as those customers who are inconvienced by the BA service disruption. The ban is in effect till further notice. The only exception will be those who are returning to base. It is expected that non revenue travel to Europe will be virtually impossible if BA suspends service.

CALMSP · Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:54 pm

that would suck for those who planned a vacation..........certainly dont agree with the actions they are taking.

tpaewr · Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:08 pm

NRSA embargos always strike me as insane. As if non-rev travel wasn't tricky enough, lets deny you a seat "just because".

I much prefer CO's warning method. CO well tell ya "Hey, that isn't a good idea" So, if you get stuck it is your own fault. OTH, if you happen to score a seat "lucky you"!

MSYtristar · Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting AA787823 (Thread starter):
It is important that AA employees be able to focus on our customers as well as those customers who are inconvienced by the BA service disruption

And so the internal customers get screwed in the process? Come on AA. I'd expect more from you.

HPAEAA · Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 3):
And so the internal customers get screwed in the process? Come on AA. I'd expect more from you.
Personally, I applaud them for this.. I can't tell you how many clueless NRSA traveler's I've had to help over the years.... they have no idea about trying to navigate and find alternate routes and more than likely would get stuck for hours if not days trying to get home... when you may have a standby list rolling of 70 plus at times sometimes you need to free up your agents to work with the customers, not NRSA travelers....

now before I get flamed, I do believe that the readers on here probably are travel savvy... however thing of all the clueless people at headquarters or elsewhere that can't navigate the rez system on their own for alternate routes...

[Edited 2007-01-24 06:20:59]

tymnbalewne · Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:18 pm

well, if AA is spending their resources in accepting BA passengers then they're probably wise not to spend the resources on handling NRSA travellers if there's little expectation that they'll be carried. Accepting another carrier's passengers isn't as easy as "Hey..come aboard!" If there is volume of passengers to accepted/cleared from standby it takes manpower and isn't as easy as handling NRSA folks.

C.

tpaewr · Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:43 pm

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 4):
however thing of all the clueless people at headquarters or elsewhere that can't navigate the rez system on their own for alternate routes

I was once a clueless 19 y/o new hire who flew NRSA to Latin America over X-mas. I learned.........the hard way. So let them get bumped. They can learn too. 11 years later I can non-rev anyplace, anytime. IBZ in August, TXL in world cup, DEL during Divali.

IPFreely · Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:58 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 3):
And so the internal customers get screwed in the process?

What is an "internal customer"?

I would imagine AA flights will be 100%+ full with their own passengers plus accommodating BA's passengers as much as possible. If a strike happens AA should take every paying passenger they can get. Turning down real customers with real money in favor of non-paying "internal customers" would be absurd.

mjlhou · Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:37 pm

Not that I'm saying AA shouldn't help the BA customers first because they should, as they are fare paying customers and part of the OneWorld alliance as well. As far as I've seen in the past though, AA usually embargoes non-airline pass travellers (D3 guests and/or parents etc.) in situations like this. In my opinion, if airline employees want to take the gamble of not getting a seat knowing that AA and BA have difficult issues at hand in the next few weeks, then that's their problem and issue. As others here have said, you never know...you might just get lucky and score a seat, and if not, then they WERE warned. The only issues I've seen from working customer service in the past is non-airline employees or other pass travellers that don't have the resources for travel that the actual employees do.

Cheers

MJL

andz · Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:01 pm

I travel non rev on SAA regularly and it is inconvenient when they impose embargoes but at the end of the day the paying passenger is king and must be treated as such. Unscheduled embargoes such as this one are unfortunate but them's the breaks as they say.

captaink · Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:11 pm

But it is not like if AA would have been turning Revenue passengers away in favour of NonRevs. I say take a chance, if you happen to get a seat then hats off the you. But I understand the point made about clueless Nonrevs taking up the agents time, when there are a lot of paying passengers needing attention.

fxramper · Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:16 pm

Quoting Tpaewr (Reply 2):
As if non-rev travel wasn't tricky enough

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 3):
Come on AA. I'd expect more from you

This time of year is always an embargo anyways? confused

The backing of BA with the no sourced APS is lame. So they are partners in One World, big deal. The BA strike? confused

Right...Flying as a D2 on AA, I never count on anything until after July (LHR, NRT, etc)...period. twocents

Good political statement. duck

LH423 · Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:27 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 7):
Turning down real customers with real money in favor of non-paying "internal customers" would be absurd.

No, no one's talking about turning down revenue passengers but when you enforce an embargo that means no staff travel regardless, you won't even be checked in. But, the fact of the matter is that some flights are going to go out with seats open that staff could get.

The reason they do it is because they (the airline) know that manpower will be crucial. Airlines will also do this when they know that all flights will be 99,99% full and the stand-by lists will only get longer and longer. BA do this at peak travel times on their flights to India and Australia.

LH423

worldtraveler · Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:34 pm

there will be AA non-revs who will have to travel. their options? buy an ID ticket on someone else even if it does mean standby... or a confirmed ticket on another carrier. BA is a large carrier but this is the dead of the winter. to think that AA's entire TATL system will immediately go to 100% LFs overnight is absurb. How about they make it a little more realistic, like to/from LHR only? I can assure you that there will be AA flights from the continent and even from other cities in the UK that will go out w/ empty seats if BA strikes. And BA won't be solely sending its passengers to AA, either.

MSYtristar · Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:47 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 7):
What is an "internal customer"?

Company employees, company vendors, etc...just another term for them. And I never insisted that NRSA folks be put ahead of paying pax. It's just not that hard to work a full flight with a standby list. If you don't make it, you don't make it. No reason to embargo it due to the potential for full loads. Just advise the NRSA's that chances are slim and none and go from there.

SeeTheWorld · Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:47 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
there will be AA non-revs who will have to travel. their options? buy an ID ticket on someone else even if it does mean standby... or a confirmed ticket on another carrier. BA is a large carrier but this is the dead of the winter. to think that AA's entire TATL system will immediately go to 100% LFs overnight is absurb. How about they make it a little more realistic, like to/from LHR only? I can assure you that there will be AA flights from the continent and even from other cities in the UK that will go out w/ empty seats if BA strikes. And BA won't be solely sending its passengers to AA, either.

Have you been on a TATL flight in the last few weeks? I went over to BRU and returned from FRA this past weekend, and there wasn't an empty seat on any flight I took. The reason AA is doing this is because they need their front-line employees to be focusing on the paying passengers rather than standbys, whether stranded or not. I applaud them for giving their gate and ticket agents a bit of a break during a possible very hectic situation. Geez, if you people cared about your fellow employees a bit, you might actually recognize how selfish you're being.

worldtraveler · Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:49 pm

Europe always peaks the first 2 weeks of the year but then pretty quickly falls off.

Agents in FRA and CDG don't need a break because/if BA goes on strike.

charlipr · Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:56 pm

What is NRSA travel?

jfk777 · Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:56 pm

AA should stop all other 777 service if BA goes on strike and fly them only to LHR.

hiflyer · Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:00 pm

First off NRSA travel is nowhere near like it was 30 years ago...most air carriers have given their employee's the ability to have limited amount of friends travel...people who are not airline savy....and in more than a few cases that I have encountered....without a clue on what they should do or what they should expect. Secondly AMR is in the ZED program now which is driving up their interline pass riders from what I get from AMR staff around the country. Lastly...the days of the station manager at one LHR carrier taking the overage NRSA from another carrier is loooooonng gone. NRSA trapped in LHR used to flock over to Air India as they always had seats 20 years ago...same with Qantas to get between the West Coast and Hawaii...no more. Overflying...longer range aircraft...security....and the need to produce revenue for every seat has stopped it.

Yes..probably an overreaction by the European AA division but they are probably remembering those scenes when liquid and carryon was banned the first time...BA strike would probably look similar.... and do not want to add NRSA nogo to the list of problems.

KaiGywer · Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 17):
What is NRSA travel?

Non Revenue Space Available.

Basically staff travel.

bobnwa · Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 7):
What is an "internal customer"?

I would imagine SA)">AA flights will be 100%+ full with their own passengers plus accommodating BA's passengers as much as possible. If a strike happens SA)">AA should take every paying passenger they can get. Turning down real customers with real money in favor of non-paying "internal customers" would be absurd.

This thread is about NRSA passengers. The SA in NRSA is for space available. NRSA passengers are not boarded until all revenue passengers are taken care of. "Real passengers with real will not be turned down."

skyzheimers · Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:27 pm

There is NO embargo to fly stand-by with AA!
There is an embargo to fly stand-by with BA! The following is what AA posted for its employees...

BA Travel Embargo

Non-Revenue Travel Embargo on BA

Are you or your family members planning to travel to/from Europe soon? If so, there's something you should know. Beginning January 26, 2007 and until further notice, British Airways (BA) has embargoed all reduced rate business and personal travel due to a potential operational disruption.

If an employee needs to return to their home or base BA will do all possible to accommodate those passengers on a standby basis as long as their travel commenced on/before January 22, 2007.

BA will be accommodating their passengers on other airlines including AA so travel will be difficult throughout Europe. Be sure to plan accordingly and have options available so you can enjoy your travels.

ltbewr · Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:19 am

AA is a partner with BA, so most likely to have to take in passengers who cannot take BA when an anticipated or actual strike. Of course, other airlines that operate between the USA and London airports (VS, DL, CO) will also get many displaced flyers from BA, so most other airlines will also get pretty full too. Thus AA and other airlines have to prioritize seats to paying pax, then non-revenue pax - that makes common sense. If you are a non-revenue pax, you have been necessarly warned as part of a good business practice.

MaverickM11 · Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:25 am

What's the reasoning behind the embargo? If there's an empty seat and all the BA customers are already squared away, why not give it to the employee? It seems totally unecessary and excessively harsh.

RDUDDJI · Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 22):
There is NO embargo to fly stand-by with AA!
There is an embargo to fly stand-by with BA! The following is what AA posted for its employees...

Hmmm, me thinks maybe a thread title change is in order...

LMP737 · Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 22):
There is NO embargo to fly stand-by with AA!
There is an embargo to fly stand-by with BA! The following is what AA posted for its employees...

If the strike goes through it's going to get very tight flying non-rev on any airline flying to and from LHR.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 18):
AA should stop all other 777 service if BA goes on strike and fly them only to LHR.

That would create havoc on it's Japan, China and India flights.

billreid · Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:55 am

In practice this is a smart. It does more to protect staff then enything else. At AA missing work is reason for termination.
If the flights are full it is a waste of time trying to get on, also it is a not nescesary struggle for staff to deal with NRSA's if they cant get on. Especially D3's, even if they are not part of the embargo.

The logical suggestion, buy an ID75PS on AA if you are staff and be assured of a seat. No Brainer.

UAL777UK · Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 18):
AA should stop all other 777 service if BA goes on strike and fly them only to LHR.

Please tell me that comment was a joke!

tundra767 · Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting Tpaewr (Reply 6):
I was once a clueless 19 y/o new hire who flew NRSA to Latin America over X-mas. I learned.........the hard way. So let them get bumped. They can learn too. 11 years later I can non-rev anyplace, anytime. IBZ in August, TXL in world cup, DEL during Divali.

LOL!! I love it!! Just like me! Having grown up nonreving and then becoming an airline employee mysef at 18 I can pull off the same stunts and still manage the comfort of a first or biz class seat! Ah the life of a nonrev!

positiverate · Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:32 am

Why not limit only UK travel? Why all Europe travel?

SeeTheWorld · Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 22):
There is NO embargo to fly stand-by with AA!
There is an embargo to fly stand-by with BA! The following is what AA posted for its employees...

BA Travel Embargo

Non-Revenue Travel Embargo on BA

Are you or your family members planning to travel to/from Europe soon? If so, there's something you should know. Beginning January 26, 2007 and until further notice, British Airways (BA) has embargoed all reduced rate business and personal travel due to a potential operational disruption.

If an employee needs to return to their home or base BA will do all possible to accommodate those passengers on a standby basis as long as their travel commenced on/before January 22, 2007.

BA will be accommodating their passengers on other airlines including AA so travel will be difficult throughout Europe. Be sure to plan accordingly and have options available so you can enjoy your travels.

Thanks for the clarification. Once again, an airliners.net thread where everyone weighs in on something they don't have all the facts on ... including me.

ORD2PHL · Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:49 am

When are non-rev travelers going to realize that you all are not the priority of any airline and that paying customers should ALWAYS come first?

I applaud AA for taking this stance, they know how busy they are going to be any where they need to focus their efforts during this potential strike.

I'm not against non-reving one iota I just cannot stand when they think they come before the paying customer.

ORD2PHL

sk736 · Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 3):
And so the internal customers get screwed in the process?

This may come as a shock to you, but internal customers getting screwed is preferable to external customers getting screwed. Have you forgotten who pays the salary?

Tin67 · Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:14 am

I "was" due to fly out to YYZ on BA093 this Friday (26th), but due to the "thoughtful" acts of the BA cabin crews I found out yesterday that the resulting embargo meant my vacation was no longer on. I have been forced to re-plan my trip with AC at very short notice and greatly increased cost.

BA cabin crew should consider their actions very carefully as they are driving the hand that feeds them into the ground. Passengers are avoiding BA like the plague and this is not just holiday makers but business too. I work for a large IT company and have a need to travel from time to time. A recent trip to Frankfurt and during the booking process it was stated that BA should not be used unless there is no alternative. This is not a good sign for BA and with the selfish actions of the crew however justified their complaint may or may not be, surely BA cannot sustain more disruption and bad press during tough times in the airline industry.

Keep on striking and you'll have more to complain about that sick pay and allowance, you'll be out work!

Thanks a lot all you BA cabin crew out there for disrupting mine and no doubt countless other peoples holidays, both staff and full paying passengers.

[Edited 2007-01-24 21:22:06]

AJMIA · Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 22):
There is NO embargo to fly stand-by with AA!
There is an embargo to fly stand-by with BA!

This is what I read in SYSHOT this morning so I was surprised to hear that there was an embargo on AA flights. I am glad it is not true as it would be a huge mistake.

Standby is standby it never hurts to take a shot if you have the flexibility.

Sometimes during a labor dispute it is a breeze to nonrev. People double book themselves for backup plans, people miss connections because their inbound flights are cancelled, and some people just decide not to fly. I flew during the AA flight attendant strike (92? 93?) and I walked on all my flights with no problem even though most flights were cancelled.

AJMIA

PRAirbus · Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:48 am

That is NOT TRUE! According to AA Employee Travel website, all NRSA travel on BA (British Airways) is cancelled for now. No NRSA travel on AA to/from Europe is cancelled. The employee travel website is alerting non-rev's to be cautious in the event of a BA strike, all AA flights will be oversold especially in/out JFK. No employee travel embargo is in effect on AA to Europe.

deltadude8 · Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 4):
I applaud them for this.. I can't tell you how many clueless NRSA traveler's I've had to help over the years.... they have no idea about trying to navigate and find alternate routes and more than likely would get stuck for hours if not days trying to get home...

I hate logic like this because it isn't logical...lets just use your logic...SO because some people don't know how to drive we all shouldnt be allowed to drive. Or becuase some people don't know how to change lanes...nobody should be able to change lanes or all roads should be one lane...

come on...thats a pretty BS practice...first the airlines cut pay and now cut benefits...soon nobody is going to want to work in this industry---whether that happens first or the fuel goes through the roof...eventually air travel will cease to exist as we know it today

phxplanes · Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:42 am

I dont understand. Its non-rev, if there are no seats available then you dont get on, so whats the point in an embargo.

VonRichtofen · Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:06 pm

I think they're blowing it out of proportion. There's a million ways to get to Europe from North America and many cities have flights to LHR that aren't operated by BA or AA. The effect on those flights will be minimal. Within Europe it will suck flying to and from the UK. But I doubt an LH flight from FRA-CPH or something would be affected too much. Hell, during the SAS strike in 2006 my LH flight suddenly went overbooked by 16 people yet somehow I made it on.

AA staff, just take Zed fares on other carriers, and avoid LHR during the strikes.

Kris

Max Q · Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:38 pm

What a waste of time, if there are no seats available, pass riders don't get on anyway!

Needless hysteria.

HPAEAA · Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:08 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 40):
Needless hysteria.

not true... say you have flights that you expect in a market to be at more than 100 percent of capacity for a given period.... let's say that you have on average 10 percent of capacity in those markets in NRSA travelers... well not only do you have to provide staffing fo checkin the over 100 percent of capacity, you have to allow for the additional 10 percent in NRSA... which can be costly (OT)... given that it's INTL and correct me if I'm wrong but you can't use the kiosks yet on AA to checkin, that's alot of additional staffing that you have to pay for... easiest way to control cost is to restrict the NRSA travler... now yes, this may happen regularly, but add in the expectation that those over 100 percent load factors are caused by a disruption by another carrier then you increase the avg time for checkin, while tickets are verified, possibly reissued or even sold... thus adding additional personal needed to handle the volume... again, increasing the cost even further... I say it's reasonable to try to improve the customer experience, at the sacrifice for NRSA... I know, none of you like that, but top out at AA for level 42 (airport agents) is over 40,000 USD... that's alota money for what you do... granted you all think it's worth it, but look at the market....

I know btw that it's been clarified that it's not AA with the embargo.. but rather a strong caution... but I still wanted to make the arguement because I know AA does use certain embargos during peak season...

[Edited 2007-01-25 06:09:39]

jetdeltamsy · Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting AA787823 (Thread starter):
. Beginning 1/24 AA will embargo all NRSA travel to/from Europe due to the BA strike. It is important that AA employees be able to focus on our customers as well as those customers who are inconvienced by the BA service disruption.

what i read on jetwire dated 1/23 was that BA had embargoed travel for their employees. nothing was mentioned on 1/24's jetwire.

where did you get this information??

AA717driver · Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:22 pm

If you're a non-rev and absolutely HAVE to be somewhere, buy a ticket! Those morons who try to non-rev home the day before they have to be at work/school whatever get what they deserve.

AA is just making sure the agents don't have to deal with D3's who think they are positive space... Smart move. TC

bobnwa · Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:49 pm

Quoting AA717driver (Reply 43):
AA is just making sure the agents don't have to deal with D3's who think they are positive space... Smart move. TC

Did most of you not read the messages that state AA does NOT have an embargo but BA does? Your creating a problem that doesn't exist!!!!

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