af773atmsp
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Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:50 am

Sorry if this has already been posted, I did check to make sure if this kind of topic has already been talked about.

I was very surprised to find out that Kenya Airways wants to start service at MSP. Many people think that MSP needs another international carrier besides NW. What I'm wondering is, will Kenya Airways begin service at MSP any time soon, is Kenya Airways still in talks with the MAC, and if Kenya Airways did start service at MSP what aircraft would Kenya Airways use?
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MAH4546
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:52 am

Kenya Airways will never be flying to MSP. Though, what may of sparked rumours is the large Somolian population in Minneapolis.
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thomasphoto60
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:13 am

KQ starting MSP-NBO.....? What are you guys smokin up there? This is something like the 3rd thread in recent months where someone from MSP wishing is for unrealistic int'l routes.

Look, Minneapolis is where I spent most of my life and as much as I love the town, there is no way in hell that MSP could support a NBO flight. The US cities that I would peg for a NBO service would be NYC (JFK/EWR) IAD, BWI, MIA, certainly not MSP. Hell MSP can not even attract SK despite historic/ cultural links to the nordic countries (yes, I know, 2nd and 3rd generation Danes, Swedes, Norwegians or what ever the historic/ cultural links a given US city has to a particular part of the world, does not always make for full planes as pointed out on numerous threads in the past).

Thomas
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af773atmsp
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:17 am

Actually Kenya Airways wants to start a MSP-CDG-NBO route, not a direct flight from MSP to NBO.
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MAH4546
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 3):
Actually Kenya Airways wants to start a MSP-CDG-NBO route, not a direct flight from MSP to NBO.

No, they don't. It is not happening. What you likely have is MAC officials trying to convince KQ this might be a good idea, but it isn't. You'll see Air France or Northwest flying MSP-CDG before anybody else does.

[Edited 2007-01-28 03:22:03]
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MCOflyer
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:23 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 3):
Actually Kenya Airways wants to start a MSP-CDG-NBO route, not a direct flight from MSP to NBO.

I'm willing to bet you they do it with 777 service. MSP is a Sky team hub. It would be so cool to see it happen.

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thomasphoto60
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:26 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 3):
Actually Kenya Airways wants to start a MSP-CDG-NBO route, not a direct flight from MSP to NBO.

Source?

Thomas
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af773atmsp
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:29 am

Icelandair Moving to Humphrey Terminal

Someone did say that KQ was having discussions with the MAC about starting MSP-CDG-NBO route.
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flydreamliner
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:49 am

I'm sure they would talk.... MSP has more connectivity than any north american skyteam hub, save ATL, but more importantly, MSP is home to a huge east african immigrant population.

Do you want to know what I think is FAR more likely - that Kenya would open operate a flight from NBO-CDG and then would codeshare on a pending (and I am confident in the next year, we'll see an announcement) NW of AF MSP-CDG route (to likely be operated by an A332 - or perhaps an AF A343...). Kenya wouldn't have the loads to send their own metal here, and probably could not succeed on a MSP-CDG.

The airlines know there is definitely demand for a stronger connection between east africa and msp, but I doubt you'll see Kenya metal in MSP... maybe just their number on a codeshare... if you are lucky, a codeshare on an AF aircraft.
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af773atmsp
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:53 am

A codeshare would be likely. On the NW website it shows its airline partners, Kenya Airways is one of them, but it says there is no codeshare.
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kjet12
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:42 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 9):
On the NW website it shows its airline partners, Kenya Airways is one of them, but it says there is no codeshare.

It is only a marketing agreement for the frequent flier program at the moment. I expect them to become a full member of Skyteam in the not too distant future.

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 6):
Icelandair Moving to Humphrey Terminal

This is no indication of Kenya flying to MSP. The reason they are moving to HHH is because Sun Country will be doing their ground handling instead of NW.
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af773atmsp
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:54 pm

I'am really hoping that Kenya Airways will start service at MSP.  pray  Who else is hoping for this to happen?
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:43 pm

hmm they said the same BS about DTW which is just as bad of a rumor. Though hey, if it did happen, we might've had a 777 again. Big grin
Kenya Airways To Start Detroit (by Behramjee Dec 15 2003 in Civil Aviation)

LH is more likely to serve MSP than KQ ever has been nor ever will it seems. May I suggest DLH?  duck 

Though if I were a betting man, I'd place bets on a potential MSP-CDG-MSP route from either AF or NW with an A332.
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af773atmsp
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:01 pm

I did look at the Kenya Airways serving DTW post. I guess there won't be any KQ flights at DTW since that post was 3 or 4 years ago.
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:12 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 11):
I'am really hoping that Kenya Airways will start service at MSP.

When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought it was an April Fool's prank. Then I checked the calendar. KQ will most likely not touch down in MSP anytime soon if not ever. US-Africa traffic is centered around WAS, NYC and S. Florida - not sure why there is a need for a direct flight to Kenya from Minneapolis in spite of whatever ethic community resides.

Officials from all sorts of countries visit cities and airport authorities all the time in the spirit of building better business links. Whenever it makes it way to the press, the rumors begin. Most of the time, nothing comes of it. Besides what little Africa traffic comes from MSP already can get there efficiently via AMS, NYC, WAS or ATL.

As far as AF serving MSP - why? I imagine we'd see them in Seattle, Dallas or Denver way before Minneapolis. Skyteam hub links, etc etc - hub-to-hub isn't always sucessful. There needs to be a base of solid O&D and yield. The Midwest is at no loss of service to CDG, or Europe for that matter.

[Edited 2007-01-28 06:21:09]
 
PanAm747
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:01 pm

Since KLM and NW have an agreement that NW will do ALL the flying between DTW/MSP and Europe, AND with NW wanting all the gates it can get at both airports, the chances of Kenya Airways flying into MSP is non-existent.

Even if they could get gate space, the O&D market is not there.

I agree with the concensus of the previous replies - KQ to CDG, and then a code-share to MSP and DTW.
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:45 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 11):
I'am really hoping that Kenya Airways will start service at MSP. pray Who else is hoping for this to happen?

As nice as it would be to see some foreign birds at MSP - Kenya won't be it.

NW has a fortress they don't want to let up on, anyhow.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 15):
Since KLM and NW have an agreement that NW will do ALL the flying between DTW/MSP and Europe, AND with NW wanting all the gates it can get at both airports, the chances of Kenya Airways flying into MSP is non-existent.

Even if they could get gate space, the O&D market is not there.

I agree with the concensus of the previous replies - KQ to CDG, and then a code-share to MSP and DTW.

Exactly... there is no reason for them to send their own metal here, and the powers that be simply don't want it. If they really are moving to join Skyteam, they'd certainly be opened to all sorts of codeshares, including of course strong service and connectivity through MSP and DTW.
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:27 pm

Is there some sort of marathon training facility in Minnesota that I haven't heard about? That seems like a very odd routing...I would think JFK-NBO would be the only service which make sense - or perhaps IAD-NBO.

If they were going to get another international service, I would think Finnaire or SAS, but people have discussed ad nauseum that just because people of Scandanavian descent - or any other nationality - live in a certain area, it doesn't necessarily mean that an Int'l service would fare well.
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af773atmsp
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:06 pm

Which international carriers would most likely begin service at MSP. I'm guessing NW will want to codeshare with them.

[Edited 2007-01-28 15:13:49]
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:14 pm

Hahahaha!!! Kenyan flying to MSP! Thats made my day!!! They fly to AMS< and NW fly to MSP from AMS, so its easier to transfer pax. I heard they wanted to fly to Miami, but KL had objections to this? I think they had said they were also interested in flying to MAN
 
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 18):
Which international carriers would most likely begin service at MSP. I'm guessing NW will want to codeshare with them.

Unfortunatley for MSP, they only have intercontinental service becuase of NW's hub. If the hub were to ever be drawn down, non-stops to Asia and Europe could be in jeopardy.

However if an international airline launches MSP service, a code-share isn't guaranteed in spite of the NW hub there. For example, if SK adds the Twin Cities to thier list, they are in the Star Alliance and would probably have no interest in code-sharing with NW.
 
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:08 am

Is that why theres no codeshare between NW and LH and NW and BA at DTW? Theres only codeshare between NW and AF at DTW.
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 2):
Hell MSP can not even attract SK despite historic/ cultural

But Icelandair has been flying to MSP for at least 4 years now.

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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 21):
Is that why theres no codeshare between NW and LH and NW and BA at DTW? Theres only codeshare between NW and AF at DTW.

Absolutely....also why KE doesn't codeshare with AA at DFW; KL doesn't codeshare with UA at SFO; RJ doesn't codeshare with NW at DTW...etc...etc...
 
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Thread starter):
I was very surprised to find out that Kenya Airways wants to start service at MSP

I'm gonna forward this to a friend in KQ's planning department and I'll bet that he will also be very surprised to find that out!  Smile
 
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:09 am

I'm sure he will be very surprised.

What are the chances that KQ will use some of their 787s at MSP?
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 25):
What are the chances that KQ will use some of their 787s at MSP?

Slim and slimmer, like it's been said, if anything is going to happen it will be KQ NBO-CDG or NBO-AMS, with a codeshare to MSP on NW or KL metal.
 
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting Pzurita1 (Reply 22):
But Icelandair has been flying to MSP for at least 4 years now.

I'm not exactly sure how long they've been flying here but for sure it's significantly above 4 years. Does anyone know exactly how long they've been flying here?

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 25):
What are the chances that KQ will use some of their 787s at MSP?

0.00%. Though I love MSP and it'd be the coolest thing to see an African carrier around here, it will not happen.
 
af773atmsp
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:13 am

I think Icelandair started service at MSP in 1998. What is the reason why Icelandair started service at MSP?
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:35 am

Having a codeshare with KL/NW, I don't think Kenya will ever fly to MSP.
 
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 28):
I think Icelandair started service at MSP in 1998. What is the reason why Icelandair started service at MSP?

ive always wondered the same thing. There are a ton of other bigger cities they could have served first, including dtw.. There probably is some good reason though.
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omoo
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:00 am

Even if they start MSP, how are the somalis going to get to Mogadishu from NBO ? The small charter flights from Nairobi's Wilson Airport were suspended because of security reasons. The cities with high numbers Kenyans/Tanzanians/Ugandans are ATL, HOU, JFK, WAS/IAD and RDU not MSP.
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Omoo (Reply 31):
Even if they start MSP, how are the somalis going to get to Mogadishu from NBO ? The small charter flights from Nairobi's Wilson Airport were suspended because of security reasons. The cities with high numbers Kenyans/Tanzanians/Ugandans are ATL, HOU, JFK, WAS/IAD and RDU not MSP.

From that, KQ would probably open up JFK and IAD, DL would open ATL-NBO, and CO would open IAH-NBO. After all, KQ is joining sky, JFK/IAD would be healthy enough to fend for themselves with O/D, and DL/CO would have enough connectivity at ATL/IAH to support service.

Or, KQ might open up all four. I just don't see how, if RDU can barely support LGW service, how would they support a service to Africa?

Of course, for this to happen, KQ will need more 777s, and agreements with DL and CO, for codeshare agreements out of ALT/IAH
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af773atmsp
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:12 am

So what will most likely happen, fly on NW/KL from MSP to AMS, then get on KQ to NBO. Or fly on NW/AF from MSP to CDG, then get on KQ to NBO.

[Edited 2007-01-28 22:16:32]
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ordryan28
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 11):
I'am really hoping that Kenya Airways will start service at MSP. pray Who else is hoping for this to happen?

I think it would be awesome to see it. I have family in the MSP area, so I visit frequently. But let's return to planet Earth...

as much as you want/hope/think it will happen, there is no way in hell it will

The chances of this happening are slimmer than an A380 landing in my driveway  sarcastic 

[Edited 2007-01-28 22:24:13]
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 33):
So what will most likely happen, fly on NW/KL from MSP to AMS, then get on KQ to NBO. Or fly on NW/AF from MSP to CDG, then get on KQ to NBO.

They currently codeshare to the NBO routes from AMS, so if you are lucky when you book u might get to fly KQ to NBO or even DAR
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 21):
Is that why theres no codeshare between NW and LH and NW and BA at DTW? Theres only codeshare between NW and AF at DTW.

NW is in SkyTeam. They do not codeshare with anyone outside of SkyTeam except AS, GQ, MQ, HA, 3M, and MA. Check the NWA website.
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af773atmsp
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:15 am

I checked the NW website and looked at its partners. Many airlines that are non SkyTeam don't have codeshare with NW.
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:12 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 13):
I did look at the Kenya Airways serving DTW post.

To those who fancy the possibility of a KQ-operated SkyTeam flight MSP-NBO via CDG or wherever...

Why would KQ choose MSP over DTW, assuming a link with one of NW's megahubs were the objective?
 
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:31 am

KQ at MSP...like the idea...not going to happen. But I could imagine them flying to DTW via CDG. But when it comes to Skyteam hubs, KQ would do better with EWR. They can get better O/D and get the domestic connection with CO. They could also do JFK and get the same thing via DL.

If there was an international carrier to start serving MSP, it would be AF or KE. KE seems to want to serve anyplace it can but it would serve DTW before MSP. AF could serve on a MSP-CDG flight but I think AF would want to serve a larger location first.

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 39):

I like your curiosity and enthusiasm for Aviation and MSP. Keep it up.

[Edited 2007-01-29 02:58:12]
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Thread starter):
I was very surprised to find out that Kenya Airways wants to start service at MSP.

I highly doubt that KQ would have any interest in MSP. If an African airline wanted to start service to the United States, you can bet one of the NYC airports would be the first on the list. The same way that if an Asian carrier wanted to start service to the United States LAX would be first on their list. MSP should be able to support another international carrier, but it would be one of the major European players like AF, BA, or LH. There isnt any African carrier that would be remotely interested in MSP.

Quoting Omoo (Reply 31):
Even if they start MSP, how are the somalis going to get to Mogadishu from NBO ? The small charter flights from Nairobi's Wilson Airport were suspended because of security reasons. The cities with high numbers Kenyans/Tanzanians/Ugandans are ATL, HOU, JFK, WAS/IAD and RDU not MSP.

Another thing people tend to overlook is percentage of a population vs. the sheer number of people in a population (im refering to particular groups of people). For example San Francisco has a very high percentage of Asians, however Los Angeles has many many more Asians based on sheer number. For most ethnic groups, New York and Los Angeles are going to have the largest number of people (sheer number). Naturally there exceptions.
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:51 am

Quoting JonnyGT (Reply 37):
Af773atmsp, you are by far the worst poster on these forums.

C'mon dude, thats uncalled for. Its what this forum is for, to help figure out if rumors are false or true. Some people on this forum have insight for this stuff.
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:04 am

I'm not sure if KQ was the one that wanted to start service at MSP, or did the MAC encourage KQ to start service at MSP?
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centrair
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:45 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 42):
I'm not sure if KQ was the one that wanted to start service at MSP, or did the MAC encourage KQ to start service at MSP?

I think this needs to be rephrased to the present tense as this has not been verified as happened or is in discussion.

If anything, I think it is probably that MAC approached KQ about it. KQ is not that big yet and still lack a lot of aircraft. They have many on order but still they would put MSP as a low priority. I would bet their priorities are...

  • Building up European network/frequency
  • Increasing China frequencies and expanding in Asia (connecting to Africa)
  • Entering/expanding the US market starting with major cities like NYC and DC Area non-stop to NBO.
  • Using codeshares where possible to build connectivity until they can do a route on their own.


If MAC in cooperation with AF or KL could offer them something sweet enough, like AF/NW codeshare via CDG then maybe they might take it. But I have a feeling MAC is approaching many carriers for service. There has long been a rumor of MSP-CDG.

Likely candidates for International Service to MSP

  • AF: CDG-MSP as part of building up the Skyteam HUB network
  • KL: AMS-MSP return and taking one of NW's routes (slim)
  • KE: ICN-MSP as part of building up the Skyteam HUB network (KE seems to want to be number one Asian carrier in serving the US)
  • LH: FRA-MSP...seem to have enough tech/medical stops now, might as well just add it in. But I wouldn't cross my fingers.

Who is NOT a candidate for International Service to MSP

  • BA: MSP-LGW is barely year-round. The route could not handle a second carrier at this time.
  • SK: CPH-MSP...SK is barely breathing. They can't even figure out how to fly to major cities profitably.


This is all speculation which is always fun.
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af773atmsp
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:59 am

Would AM be in likely candidates to serve MSP, but the Mexican carriers can wait, first European and Asian carriers.
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BigGSFO
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:03 pm

I suppose I can see KE in MSP with the Skyteam alliance et al. Isn't there a large Southeast Asian population (Laotian?) in the Twin Cities? Is it sizable enough to justify another non-stop to Asia? Curious.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 45):
I suppose I can see KE in MSP with the Skyteam alliance et al. Isn't there a large Southeast Asian population (Laotian?) in the Twin Cities? Is it sizable enough to justify another non-stop to Asia? Curious.

The local population is not enough to substain Korean Air, but the large size of the skyTeam hub could probably make up for it. I could imagine Korean Air being successful in Minneapolis, but I don't see them going there soon. They are planning Houston in late 2007 and Miami in mid-2008. Korean Air does tend to fly to destinations that most Asian airlines avoid, such as Las Vegas, St. Petersburg, Prague, etc.
a.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:14 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 45):
Isn't there a large Southeast Asian population (Laotian?) in the Twin Cities?

You're right. Lots of Laoian, Hmong, and Vietnamese.

Mark
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centrair
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:14 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 45):
Isn't there a large Southeast Asian population (Laotian?) in the Twin Cities?

Hmong is large. I think that if NW could operate NRT-SGN or Hanoi, it would be enough.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 46):
They are planning Houston in late 2007 and Miami in mid-2008. Korean Air does tend to fly to destinations that most Asian airlines avoid, such as Las Vegas, St. Petersburg, Prague, etc.

And probably after getting the rest of their 777s and 787s they would go to DTW first. KE likes to start with 3x week and then expand from there in smaller markets.

Late 2007 HOU
Mid 2008 MIA
Late 2008 DTW? MSP?

The 787 is the key for MSP. (ooh that rhymes)
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BigGSFO
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RE: Will Kenya Airways Ever Start Service At MSP?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 48):
The 787 is the key for MSP. (ooh that rhymes)

Such the poet you are!  Wink

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