n1786b
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Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:23 pm

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/301797_tankers31.html

James Wallace's report on the KC-X final RFP included this interesting blurb:


"Production in Everett of Boeing's 767 commercial jet, which is made as a freighter and passenger plane, has slowed to about one plane a month, although a source said that will be increased to two planes a month.........

As of the end of 2006, Boeing had 28 767s left to build. But the source said Boeing expects a large freighter order soon, which will allow the commercial line to remain open until at least 2010."

Any guesses/inside information/rumors?? This is the first time I have heard about this potential deal (although I'm sure if it is old news someone will let me know)

- n1786b
 
777fan
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:53 pm

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
Any guesses/inside information/rumors?? This is the first time I have heard about this potential deal (although I'm sure if it is old news someone will let me know)

No, but that'd be a surprise seeing as how the 777's capacity and performance seems to make it a more logical choice for a freighter. Anyone have any ideas regarding a potential customer? UPS and FedEx seem to be okay in terms of existing orders. DHL? Airborne Express?

777fan
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manni
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:10 pm

Quoting N1786b (Thread starter):
Boeing had 28 767s left to build. But the source said Boeing expects a large freighter order soon, which will allow the commercial line to remain open until at least 2010."

That would be a real surprise. I can't imagine an airline not operating the 767F or a large fleet of 767s already, chosing the 767F over the A330F. Perhaps you should look at current 767F operators. NH's cargo fleet exist of 767F only...
 
wjcandee
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:03 pm

New-build 767 freighters would only be purchased by a cargo hauler with: (1) a significant, immediate need; (2) very high dispatch reliability requirements; (3) very long stage lengths or very high utilization requirements; and (4) a history of buying new.

I say this because of the market situation for the 763ER at present. That would be the only version likely to be implicated here, because there is a sufficient market of used 762s to convert if anyone really wants them (like ABXAir, which is converting several Delta 762s but probably doesn't need too many more). The 763ER is in very high demand today, but the market for major passenger airline use will drop substantially as the 787 starts coming on line. So there should be a good supply of them available for secondary passenger carrier use and freight conversion within the next 5 years. Cargo airlines generally employ used and/or converted aircraft as a significant part of their fleet mix because of the relatively-lower utilization rates of those aircraft, so the lower capital cost is a major advantage: the thing costs less money when it is sitting, and there is plenty of time on a given day for it to receive enough TLC to be ready to fly that night. Also, the lower *operating* cost of new aircraft (fuel efficiency, 2 person cockpit, etc.) doesn't offset the higher *capital* cost, and thereby doesn't drop to the bottom line, if the aircraft aren't highly-utilized. UPS and FedEx, as well as some others, can have a high percentage of new-build a/c in their fleets because many (but not all) of their missions deliver high utilization (day and night in the US as well as long-range transoceanic routes) as well as require a high degree of dispatch reliability to support Express service (as opposed to slower air cargo service).

So...if you didn't need that aircraft in a relatively-short time frame, you could wait for converted 763ERs; if you didn't have a high utilization and dispatch-reliability requirements, you're better off buying cheaper used a/c, or sticking with a trusty DC8-70, A300, DC10, etc. A "large order" as referenced in the article really points to someone like a FedEx or UPS, although neither would presently appear to be in the market for an a/c with the 763's capabilities. The only other possibility, in my mind, would be a well-funded "vanity" aircraft purchaser like EK, or a well-funded, growing Asian carrier that wants to expand its international freight business. My 2 cents, anyway. It will be interesting to see.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:04 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
I can't imagine an airline not operating the 767F or a large fleet of 767s already, chosing the 767F over the A330F

Who knows, if Boeing were to offer some low prices if an airline were to take a batch of them, it *might* be a new carrier. Though nonetheless I would also agree that it would be an existing customer.
 
EI321
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:18 pm

Im wondering would it be possible for Boeing to convert the 767 line into another 787 line around 2012.
 
columba
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:22 pm

I have read in a German aviation forum that DHL will replace their A300s with 767s because of commonality with their 757s.
I would rule out UPS. They have enough A300s on order and changed most of it to orders for the A380 because they don´t need more aircraft of that size.
Fedex is also doubtful they also have A300s and 777 on order.
Since no other big cargo airline is in the market for a large new 767F order it might very well be DHL.

[Edited 2007-01-31 12:26:36]
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CXfirst
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:30 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
That would be a real surprise. I can't imagine an airline not operating the 767F or a large fleet of 767s already, chosing the 767F over the A330F.



Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
Though nonetheless I would also agree that it would be an existing customer.

So, should we start making a list over large 767f operaters?

Theres:

-NH

please add to the list.

-CXfirst
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:36 pm

NH, LAN, UPS have to be up there.

Quoting Columba (Reply 6):
I have read in a German aviation forum that DHL will replace their A300s with 767s because of commonality with their 757s.

Can you provide us with a link?

MCOflyer
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Flying-Tiger
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 6):
I have read in a German aviation forum that DHL will replace their A300s with 767s because of commonality with their 757s.

Makes only sense if DHL wants to expand the intercont flying, their 14 (?)A300s are more for regional markets. 14 Frames would be a nice order, but if 14 frames are enough to keep the line open at 2 frames per month (= 14 months or mid-2008 + 14 for DHL means early 2009) is everyones guess.

I would rule out TNT, too small. MNG Cargo should be out of question as well. An option could be Airborne Express, but they are more into converted frames.
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columba
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 8):
Can you provide us with a link?

I will try to find it, I read in three different aviation forums and that was a few weeks ago.
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Lumberton
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 5):
Im wondering would it be possible for Boeing to convert the 767 line into another 787 line around 2012.

Slightly OT, but I can see this if they come to terms with their very aggressive unions; "in source" more of the 787 production in exchange for a long term labor agreement and labor peace. However, if Boeing wins the tanker contract, the 767 line will be quite busy for at least the next 10 years. They could however, expand, or convert the Long Beach line. All this is fantasy speculation, of course, but there are possibilities.  Wink
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
n1786b
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:49 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 5):
Im wondering would it be possible for Boeing to convert the 767 line into another 787 line around 2012.

Why? If they win the tanker deal, they will need it. Maybe a better question is can Airbus turn the A300 line into a second A350 line  Smile  duck 

Back on topic, may be a new player in Asia or India?

-n1786b
 
columba
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:54 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 9):
Makes only sense if DHL wants to expand the intercont flying, their 14 (?)A300s are more for regional markets. 14 Frames would be a nice order,

Didn´t they want to expand from their new Leipzig Hub ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
manni
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:03 pm

Quoting N1786b (Reply 12):
Maybe a better question is can Airbus turn the A300 line into a second A350 line

Can Airbus turn the A300 line into an A330 line would be a better question at the moment. But, IIRC, this question has been asked and the answer was (again IIRC) 'no'. The reason given was the bigger dimensions of the A330 compared to the A300.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 7):
So, should we start making a list over large 767f operaters?


50 new build 763F have been ordered by 5 airlines and one lessor. The airlines are UPS (32), LAN (8) JL (4) , NH (4), and OZ (1). GECAS ordered the other one.
 
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STT757
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:55 pm

The 767F order could be for any 767 model (200, 300, 400). I could see DLH/ABX ordering additional 767-200Fs, or FedEx ordering 767-200Fs to replace some 727s.
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CXfirst
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:00 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 8):
UPS have to be up there.

Couldn't UPS get some discounted A330F due to the delayed A380F?
Or will fleet comminality be better than a discounted A330F?

-CXfirst
 
timboflier215
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:03 pm

To sell keep the line going until 2010 at the rate of 2 a month (after the remaining 28 or so have been built), we're looking, according to my rough calculations (which I hope are correct!), at an order of around 50 a/c. Not bad, if it comes to fruition. Though why you wouldn't have the A330F or 777F instead is beyond me - with a fleet that large, doesn't commonality cease to be a real issue?
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 1):
DHL? Airborne Express?

Airborne Express no longer exists, actually. They were purchased by DHL in 2003, and their airline ABX Air is a separate entity. I am wondering if it could possibly be them. My father is a captain for ABX Air, and he said that they are currently in the midst of negotiating a deal to fly a bunch of freighters over in Asia as a contractor for ANA. It would be an all-767 contract and would start with 2 aircraft, and eventually become much much bigger. Unfortunately there are no links to this because the company hasn't released any information on it. I do know that ANA execs were at Airborne Air Park over the past month looking at how ABX is set up. Of course, as someone above already mentioned, ABX has never ordered brand new aircraft, but has always gone with conversions. Just a thought, of course.

[Edited 2007-01-31 16:37:48]
Good goes around!
 
dallasnewark
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
That would be a real surprise. I can't imagine an airline not operating the 767F or a large fleet of 767s already, chosing the 767F over the A330F. Perhaps you should look at current 767F operators. NH's cargo fleet exist of 767F only...

Manni,

There are lot's of time when the inferior product will outsell the superior product based on the need, availability and the speed of delivery. I'm sure the A330F production line is pretty much backed up, while the B767 production line is operation way below it's production capability.
The same argument can be made with the B777 and A340. A340 will still get their orders based on the availability, so don't be suprised if someone orders a large batch of B767's.
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JayinKitsap
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:34 am

If someone needs capacity FAST, what options are there right now. Conversions take planes but currently nearly all 767's are flying. Also, most of the conversion firms are also pretty booked up.

So the question would be - can the new purchase 767 cover the cost differentail between its price and the price of an older converted freighter during a period of say 5-6 years. It seems to be quite possible.

For someone with a fleet, wouldn't it be nice to have a couple dozen new planes that are alike, verses different ages, engines, interior mods, etc.

Depending on the discounts Boeing would offer and the current market in used planes there might not be a lot of difference between new build vs purchase used + convert cost.

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flydreamliner
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 16):
Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 8):
UPS have to be up there.

Couldn't UPS get some discounted A330F due to the delayed A380F?
Or will fleet comminality be better than a discounted A330F?

Isn't that A380 order in some kind of jeopardy anyhow?
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
777fan
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 18):
Airborne Express no longer exists, actually.

Cool - thanks for the correction! Shows how much (little) attention I've paid to cargo carriers!


777fan
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atmx2000
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
That would be a real surprise. I can't imagine an airline not operating the 767F or a large fleet of 767s already, chosing the 767F over the A330F. Perhaps you should look at current 767F operators. NH's cargo fleet exist of 767F only...

If an operator doesn't need a larger, more expensive freighter, why would they order one? And if the cargo operator doesn't have much LD3 business, the ability of the A330F to hold dual LD3s side by side is not important.
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eraugrad02
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:03 am

I think all of us want to see this plane live a little longer. I know I do. I wish Boeing the best with this. When could the announcement happen? Anyone know?
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 22):
Cool - thanks for the correction! Shows how much (little) attention I've paid to cargo carriers!

No worries. In all honesty, if my dad didn't work for them, I wouldn't have a clue. I focus a lot more on keeping up on the pax carriers too.
Good goes around!
 
singel09
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:59 am

to step away from civil operators, could this be an order for USAF KC-767, I believe the initial talk was for about a hundred.

Mause
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting Singel09 (Reply 26):
to step away from civil operators, could this be an order for USAF KC-767, I believe the initial talk was for about a hundred.

It would be nice, but the USAF just opened the bidding process, I believe, so it is still far too soon for an order.
Good goes around!
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
I can't imagine an airline not operating the 767F or a large fleet of 767s already, chosing the 767F over the A330F.

I could say the same thing about the 777F vs. the A330F, too.  Wink

The truth is the A330F is Airbus's replacement for the A300F in what the manufacturer offers cargo operators in the market. However, the A330F is not in the same class as either the A300F nor the 767F. Indeed, there is nearly as large a difference in sizes between the 767F and A330F, as there is between the A330F and 777F.

In short, if a cargo operator wants a small widebody freighter in the A300/767 class, it would be hard to justify the added expense of the A330F. OTOH, Airbus could continue to offer the airframe for the same discounts as Intrepid got, which would definitely help the hypothetical operator's CASM.

Regards,

Hamlet69
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Hamlet69
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 15):
The 767F order could be for any 767 model (200, 300, 400). I could see DLH/ABX ordering additional 767-200Fs, or FedEx ordering 767-200Fs to replace some 727s.

Boeing does not offer a new-build 767-200F (or -400F, for that matter) program. Nor is there any probability of them launching one. If this order comes to fruition, it will be -300F's only.

Regards,

Hamlet69
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ncelhr
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 27):
It would be nice, but the USAF just opened the bidding process, I believe, so it is still far too soon for an order.

It would be interesting if these were rumors were indeed about the KC-767 and it would be known in advance that the order would go to Boeing yet again, only to be cancelled yet again... because of what we all know... or is it fair this time because A did not bother bidding?
 
gigneil
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:35 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 1):
No, but that'd be a surprise seeing as how the 777's capacity and performance seems to make it a more logical choice for a freighter.

Not if you don't need the capacity or performance, and a 777F costs what, 100 million more?

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 3):
very long stage lengths or very high utilization requirements;

Very long stage lengths is certainly not the forte of the 767F.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 23):
And if the cargo operator doesn't have much LD3 business, the ability of the A330F to hold dual LD3s side by side is not important.

"LD3 business"? Cargo haulers load freight into containers or onto pallets, both of which the A330 carries more of.

NS
 
atmx2000
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 31):
"LD3 business"? Cargo haulers load freight into containers or onto pallets, both of which the A330 carries more of.

And a 777 carries more of them, but so what. My point is if the cargo carrier's operations aren't heavily built around that particular cargo container type, then the A300 cross section does not have any special advantages. And if they don't need the larger capacity and range-payload of the A330, then there is no particular advantage to the A330 over the 767 to justify its higher cost.

[Edited 2007-01-31 23:58:55]
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eraugrad02
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:51 am

Why wont boeing enhance the 767F. With the ranked winglets to give a little more range and a newer engines. These enhancements could be all added to the KC767 as well if it benefits the plane. I never understood to this day why the ranked winglets weren't added across the whole 767 model. Maybe one of you guys have the answers.
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eraugrad02
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:51 am

oops double post. im sorry. the site was acting wierd.

[Edited 2007-02-01 01:02:30]
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
eraugrad02
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:51 am

I cant wait to read press release.

[Edited 2007-02-01 01:05:40]
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
phishphan70
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
NH's cargo fleet exist of 767F only...

what about the 747-200's they operate? i know i've seen atleast one of them at SFO
 
wjcandee
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 31):
Very long stage lengths is certainly not the forte of the 767F.

You are correct. I should have said "very long range missions or long stage lengths". The thought being that if you use it on a longer stage length (like ILN-LAX, for example, which is significantly-longer than the type of JFK-ILN, ATL-ILN, ORD-ILN stage lengths that a big part of the freight fleet sees), you get pretty good utilization if you make a day turn and an overnight turn with the thing, and that's about all you're gonna get from it. Very-long-range-missions don't necessarily require very long stage lengths, as boxes don't mind the stop in ANC or Shannon, say, but the efficiency and reliability of the newer a/c will offset the higher capital cost when it's in the air a lot.
 
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ER757
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 6):
I have read in a German aviation forum that DHL will replace their A300s with 767s because of commonality with their 757s

Haven't heard anything internally about this, but that's not to say it isn't possible. I'll do some snooping around and see if I can substantiate this rumour
 
manni
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:16 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 23):

If an operator doesn't need a larger, more expensive freighter, why would they order one?

Perhaps because the A330F will have a far lower cost per tonne then the 767F for a slightly bigger initial investment. Also according to some 'analysts' Airbus is selling their A330F's well below the price of the 767.

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 19):
There are lot's of time when the inferior product will outsell the superior product based on the need, availability and the speed of delivery. I'm sure the A330F production line is pretty much backed up, while the B767 production line is operation way below it's production capability.

How much quicker would this company be able to recieve a 767F as compared to a A330F? The A330F will be available from the start of the second half of 2009. Boeing currently has a production rate of 1 a month, bumping up capacity can't be done overnight.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 28):

I could say the same thing about the 777F vs. the A330F, too. Wink

The truth is the A330F is Airbus's replacement for the A300F in what the manufacturer offers cargo operators in the market. However, the A330F is not in the same class as either the A300F nor the 767F. Indeed, there is nearly as large a difference in sizes between the 767F and A330F, as there is between the A330F and 777F.

I'd say there is far more difference between the A330F and the 777F, as between the A330F and the 767F. The A330F will be able to carry between 64 and 69 tonnes. The 767F is able to carry 55 tonnes, while the 777F can carry upto 103 tonnes.

You do raise a interesting point about the A300F. Airbus, apparently, intended to restart the A300F line. Airbus might have decided not to restart the A300F line and consequently, the customer that requested Airbus to start producing A300F again, might now opt for the 767F instead. Now if someone knows who wanted more A300F's...

Quoting Phishphan70 (Reply 36):
what about the 747-200's they operate? i know i've seen atleast one of them at SFO

I expected someone to post this remark. Nippon Cargo Airlines is not All Nippon Airlines. the 742 you have seen was most likely an aircraft belonging to Nippon Cargo Airlines.
 
LimaNiner
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RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:23 pm

Seems like good business on Boeing's part, and a great opportunistic buy for a cargo operator:

The 767 order book doesn't have much backlog left over. When the backlog clears, keeping the line "open" (whatever that means when planes aren't rolling off) is a gamble on winning the tanker deal. Shareholders won't go along forever...

With the competitor threatening to pull out of the tanker bidding process, the tanker deal might be stalled *again*, putting pressure on Boeing. (Smart move on the competitor's part: stall the process by a couple of years to force Boeing to "fish or cut bait" on the 767 line.)

So Boeing offers the 767F dirt cheap to customers who might be considering the A330F. Boeing kills 2 birds with one stone: they extend the life of the 767 line by a couple of years, and put pressure on the A330F (and, thus, Boeing's competitor in the tanker deal).

Since all the R&D on the 767 is already paid off, they can afford to offer incremental units at rock-bottom prices.

They have to be a little careful not to siphon off sales of the 777F, but, as others have pointed out, that's not too hard a problem -- some cargo operators need the capabilities of the 777F, while others want the rock-bottom prices of the 767F.

Brilliant move by Boeing, really.
 
eraugrad02
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:12 am

RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:54 pm

Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 40):
Brilliant move by Boeing, really.

I totally agree with you. I hope this works for Boeing and the 767 program.
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
Trentin
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:29 pm

RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:14 pm

sounds like great news for the 767
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8313
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:36 pm

Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 40):
With the competitor threatening to pull out of the tanker bidding process, the tanker deal might be stalled *again*, putting pressure on Boeing.

The threat was designed to try to get the Air Force to change the spec to favor the bigger, more expensive aircraft. The Air Force didn't want a bigger, more expensive aircraft, it wanted more of the smaller, cheaper aircraft. Personally, I think the threat was an EADS bluff, and they'll bid anyway. Then, they will most likely lose, because the aircraft that they are offering is not the aircraft that the Air Force wants in the first round of tanker replacement. Maybe down the road a bit, but not now. The sanity that the Air Force is displaying is commendable. They need a tanker, not a cargo plane and not a troop transport, and it appears that that's what they're actually going to acquire. They already have the hands-down best military cargo planes in the world with the C-17, and it's a hell of a lot cheaper to ship cargo and troops that aren't actually going directly into the war zone on carriers like World and Evergreen than it is to develop organic military lift to fly missions that can be flown civilian. The armed services have a long history of multipurposing the piss out of stuff that they are acquiring, ending up with stuff that doesn't really well-fit any mission it's designed for. Look at the Bradley in its original incarnations, for example. It's a scout. No, it's a troop transport. No, let's add a turret and take out some of the troops it transports to put ammunition in there instead. Oh, now we need armor, so now it's too heavy and slow. And on and on. In the military climate of the 70s and 80s, it's amazing that something like the Sidewinder -- simple, cheap, lethal -- was ever purchased by our military. It's delightful to see a simple and effective kit like the JDAM used to convert cheap dumb bombs into relatively-inexpensive smart bombs. Maybe they're finally getting it and they'll do what the Italian Air Force and Japan SDF have already done and order the 767 tanker, based on a reliable, proven platform that's more than up to the mission and the right size for the job.
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 30066
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:46 pm

Since B757s are not available in Numbers needed for Freighter conversions.I wont be surprised if some operators might go in for the B767F.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
boswashsprstar
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:21 pm

RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:00 pm

Is Boeing still making passenger 767s? If not, who got the last ones?
 
eraugrad02
Posts: 699
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:12 am

RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:04 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 44):
Since B757s are not available in Numbers needed for Freighter conversions.I wont be surprised if some operators might go in for the B767F.
regds
MEL

I never thought of this. You make a very good point. You're either left with 737F or 767F big size gap with 757 gone.
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:31 pm

Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 40):
Since all the R&D on the 767 is already paid off, they can afford to offer incremental units at rock-bottom prices.

That's definitely also the case for the A330. As far as the A330F is concerned, a figure of US$100 million was mentioned as development costs. With 34 commitments already, no problem there either.

Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 40):
So Boeing offers the 767F dirt cheap to customers who might be considering the A330F. Boeing kills 2 birds with one stone: they extend the life of the 767 line by a couple of years, and put pressure on the A330F

I seriously doubt that the 767F can put pressure on the A330F. It's more likely the other way around. Boeing has booked 50 firm orders since the launch of the 767F, for that aircraft. Was it 14 years ago? Airbus booked 34 A330F commitments, since her launch 15 days ago...
 
beech19
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:30 am

RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:07 pm

Quoting BosWashSprStar (Reply 45):
Is Boeing still making passenger 767s? If not, who got the last ones?

Yes and there is plenty left to make. (Tangent: JAL 777-200 (NON-ER) coming down the line very soon.)

We have slots filled for 767's well into 2009 so it wouldn't take much to push it to 2010 as it says.

For anyone following the KC-767 tanker program... we pulled ship 952 out of paint last night. Good to see some military stuff going on.

Can't wait to see some USAF 767's rolling thru...  Wink
KPAE via KBVY
 
PEET7G
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: Large 767F Order Soon?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:09 pm

Quoting Phishphan70 (Reply 36):
what about the 747-200's they operate? i know i've seen atleast one of them at SFO

As far as I know NH Cargo operates a sole fleet of 763F's.



The 747's and as well as 1 763F currently is being operated by Nippon Cargo (KZ)



Peet7G

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