Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
amirs
Topic Author
Posts: 1237
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

EL AL To Close Chicago

Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:26 pm

After announcing their intentions to close CAI, LCA and IST, LY announce today the closing of their first long haul route - CHICAGO.

El Al to close Chicago route
Sources: El Al may expand code-sharing agreements with US airlines to expand follow-on flights from New York.
Ran Dagoni, Washington 31 Jan 07 9:56


Aviation sources inform ''Globes'' that El Al Israel Airlines Ltd. (TASE: ELAL) will shortly announce the closing of its route from Tel Aviv to Chicago via Toronto on April 19. The decision to close the route was taken because it failed to attract a large number of passengers, although the planes were far from empty.
The Tel Aviv-Chicago route was popular among Israeli and foreign passengers because of the time saved in flight and because the short stopover in Toronto did not require going through passport control and customs.

An aviation source told “Globes”, “The business goal is to maximize seat occupancy rates. If the criteria set for this cannot be achieved, it’s worthwhile for an airline to cancel the route, even if it does not lose money, and use the planes on routes with higher occupancy rates.”

Tourism sources said the cancellation could hurt tourist arrivals from large metropolitan centers in the US Midwest, even though travellers will still have other options for flights between Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport and Ben Gurion Airport. The sources said that Air Canada would fill the void El Al leaves behind on the route.

The sources added that code-sharing agreements between El Al and US airlines will enable El Al passengers to make follow-on flights from New York. El Al may also sign more code-sharing agreements in order to increase the number of destinations.

El Al North America general manager Michael Meyer, declined to comment, but El Al’s New York spokeswoman said that the airline views the US as a vital destination and that it was expanding and improving service to various destinations in North America.

Published by Globes [online], Israel business news - www.globes.co.il - on January 31, 2007


I was under the impretion they were planning on making the route nonstop and not via YYZ, after the two new 777 arrive in a few months.

Thanks jonnye for the info in flyertalk.com
 
LY777
Posts: 2572
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:50 pm

That's disappointing, I don't understand why they shut down a route where the loads are OK.
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
amirs
Topic Author
Posts: 1237
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

EL AL To Close Chicago

Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:52 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 1):
That's disappointing, I don't understand why they shut down a route where the loads are OK.

Why have "ok" loads when you can get great loads? Maybe they will add more flights to the Far East or another flight to MIA.
 
4xRuv
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:29 pm

Regarding your first sentence, I read that the government decided to participate in the costs of the CAI route, due to national strategic considerations.
 
El Al 001
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:39 pm

The route is set to be axed.

LY103/4 to ORD flights are still visible in all reservation systems even after April 19, however, its impossible to book those flights after that date.
All classes marked with "On request only" for all flights to ORD after April 19.
It is possible to order the LY103/4 to YYZ (although the flight number will probably be changed to LY029/30 once LY stops ORD and YYZ is let alone)

Mike
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26062
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:27 am

Not a huge surprise, IMO. I would expect them to possibly add a fourth weekly to Los Angeles, at least during the summer, and upgrade Miami to a 772.
a.
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:53 am

Are they thus decreasing the frequency on the YYZ service?

UA cannot code share on the AC YYZ TLV service I understand? Otherwise that would be a viable alternative for ORD pax, especially STAR members.
 
ORD Boy 2
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 12:25 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:18 am

El Al is always booked Im surprised that they would stop serving the 3rd largest Jewish community in the United States
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:47 am

This is another short-sighted decision by El Al management. ORD seems to be the type of destination that LY claims it wants to serve because it attracts a healthy mix of both business travellers and tourists. Also, ORD is always and busiest or second busiest airport in the world. ORD is located in the center of the United States, and it offers the most connecting flights to other cities in the Midwest, Southwest and West because it is a hub for both AA and UA. According to the article that Amirs cites, ORD was not a money losing route for LY. Perhaps, LY could have achieved higher occupancy rates on its ORD flights if it had devoted more efforts and resources to developing this route. Suspending flights to ORD contradicts LY's claim that it intends to offer more flights and better service to North America.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 6):
UA cannot code share on the AC YYZ TLV service I understand?

Why not? Both UA and AC are members Star Alliance.

El Al's planned withdrawal from ORD provides an incentive for UA to consider starting its own flights to TLV from ORD or IAD. However, I doubt that UA will seize this opportunity.
 
7474ever
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:16 am

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting Amirs (Reply 2):
Maybe they will add more flights to the Far East or another flight to MIA.

That's what I think as well. HKG will be increased from 4 weekly flights to 5, PEK will get a third flight, not to mention the increasing demand for BKK.
 
777way
Posts: 6457
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:16 am

Is LY getting new livery, I came across these new titles at wikipedia.

 
7474ever
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:16 am

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting 4xRuv (Reply 3):
the government decided to participate in the costs of the CAI route, due to national strategic considerations.

That's correct, however the route sometimes gets a downgrade to ATR (hired Arkia I guess...) instead of the usual 737-700/800.
 
LY777
Posts: 2572
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 10):
Is LY getting new livery, I came across these new titles at wikipedia.

AFAIK no, LY won't change their livery.The last planes delivered even retain the old logo
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26062
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting ORD Boy 2 (Reply 7):
El Al is always booked Im surprised that they would stop serving the 3rd largest Jewish community in the United States

Chicago is the third largest Israeli community (after NYC and Miami), not Jewish community. It is the fifth largest Jewish community, after NYC, Miami, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia.
a.
 
LXA340
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:01 am

Going off topic, however inorder to be more profitable on routes especially on the Premium Sectors of which they loose a lot of clients in favour of LH, LX or BA they finnaly need a proper Long Haul product with a fleetwide new Business (Platinum) Class + First and new Seats in Economy. Also upgrade the IFE systems and offer AVOD. When will this finnaly come, it is always talked about but no more. Will the 2 New 772's delivered this year offer any inovative new cabin?
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6099
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
Not a huge surprise, IMO. I would expect them to possibly add a fourth weekly to Los Angeles, at least during the summer, and upgrade Miami to a 772.

Indeed. MIA is itching to have have more weekly frequencies or a larger aircraft serving what they have. LAX needs more weekly frequencies for sure. I know LY 5/6 have been filling up very well and its seems to be very profitable.

Quoting ORD Boy 2 (Reply 7):
El Al is always booked Im surprised that they would stop serving the 3rd largest Jewish community in the United States

NYC, Miami, and Los Angeles all have larger Jewish communities than Chicago.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26062
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:35 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15):
MIA is itching to have have more weekly frequencies or a larger aircraft serving what they have.

MIA gets a third weekly at the end of March, which is a good frequency. They just need to put a 777. The average monthly load factor has yet to be under 90%.
a.
 
7474ever
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:16 am

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 14):
Will the 2 New 772's delivered this year offer any inovative new cabin?

As LY777 pointed out in another thread, those T7's should come with new first class/business class seats.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5181
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:09 am

It seems to me that part of the problem is the El Al did very little marketing in Chicago. About the only way people would know that El Al flew into ORD was to see an El Al jet sitting at Terminal 5.

Perhaps some ads in the travel sections of the local papers might have helped increase the loads.
 
User avatar
United787
Posts: 2936
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 8):
El Al's planned withdrawal from ORD provides an incentive for UA to consider starting its own flights to TLV from ORD or IAD. However, I doubt that UA will seize this opportunity.

I hope UA considers ORD-TLV. It would be a great follow up to their Kuwait service. Or would they consider a IAD-TLV as part of their capital to capital campaign (putting aside obvious political debate about the capital of Israel)?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26062
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 19):
I hope UA considers ORD-TLV. It would be a great follow up to their Kuwait service. Or would they consider a IAD-TLV as part of their capital to capital campaign (putting aside obvious political debate about the capital of Israel)?

If UA ever decides to fly Tel Aviv, it would most certainly be to Dulles. The loss of Chicago-Tel Aviv service really isn't that significant. I doubt someone is going to fill the gap.
a.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6099
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
MIA gets a third weekly at the end of March, which is a good frequency. They just need to put a 777. The average monthly load factor has yet to be under 90%.

This is good news indeed. Now all we need is a fourth daily into LAX, but I think that will happen sooner rather than latter.

Quoting United787 (Reply 19):
I hope UA considers ORD-TLV. It would be a great follow up to their Kuwait service. Or would they consider a IAD-TLV as part of their capital to capital campaign (putting aside obvious political debate about the capital of Israel)?

I could see UA going to TLV, but it would be from IAD, not ORD. That seems to be their favored hub for traffic to that part of the world.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
The loss of Chicago-Tel Aviv service really isn't that significant. I doubt someone is going to fill the gap.

I wish someone would fill the gap, but I bet you are right.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1339
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago LY

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Chicago is the third largest Israeli community (after NYC and Miami), not Jewish community. It is the fifth largest Jewish community, after NYC, Miami, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia.



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15):

NYC, Miami, and Los Angeles all have larger Jewish communities than Chicago.

Actually, Illiniois is the very last of the "top ten":
1) New York
2) New Jersey
3) Florida
4) Washington D.C.
5) Massachusetts
6) Maryland
7) Connecticut
8) California
9) Pennsylvania
10) Illinois
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26062
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 22):
Actually, Illiniois is the very last of the "top ten":
1) New York
2) New Jersey
3) Florida
4) Washington D.C.
5) Massachusetts
6) Maryland
7) Connecticut
8) California
9) Pennsylvania
10) Illinois

Since when do states equal cities?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews#Population
a.
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
Not a huge surprise, IMO. I would expect them to possibly add a fourth weekly to Los Angeles, at least during the summer, and upgrade Miami to a 772.



Quoting Amirs (Reply 2):
Why have "ok" loads when you can get great loads? Maybe they will add more flights to the Far East or another flight to MIA.

Yes, this really isn't a huge surprise. Although it is very disappointing for me, because LY was my favorite bird to spot @ ORD. We're gonna miss you, LY...

I think LAX will see an increased flight, like MAH4546 has stated..

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
Since when do states equal cities?

I'm pretty sure it never has...
 no 

I had heard rumors that PK was thinking about pulling out...let's hope this doesn't come true either...

I thought we (ORD) we're really doing well with the sudden expansion of 3 new int'l carriers, but this is certainly awful news.
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
todaReisinger
Posts: 902
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2001 4:19 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 10):
Is LY getting new livery, I came across these new titles at wikipedia.

The livery change occured in 1999, when El Al abandoned its beautiful and impressive turquoise/blue livery for the cheap looking (and ugly in my opinion) ribbon livery. But at least back then, the logo survived...it remained untouched. The "new" logo is a pure HORROR, it is nothing more than a disfigured copy of the current one. I still can't believe that a professionnal graphic designer dared disfigure in such a gross way one of the most beautiful and successful corporate logos ever created.

And why? What does this stupidity mean? To make the letters round will give the company a more modern, more dynamic look? Bla bla bla....it's a pure nonsense, and it is a totally unoriginal process btw....

I really cannot understand.


* * * * * * *

Regarding the route decisions, it's difficult to make a judgement without knowing the facts, but I don't think an airline can pretend to be the "flag carrier" if it flies only to 20 profitable destinations around the world. And I am quite sure that pretty soon Israir will fly these routes and show that they can be profitable.....
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:40 am

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 24):
I thought we (ORD) we're really doing well with the sudden expansion of 3 new int'l carriers, but this is certainly awful news.

The airlines gods "giveth and they taketh away", we here in Houston are painfully aware of this. Again look on the bright side, you guys are picking up SA, VS and whats the other, B6? Not too shabby, imo.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
UA772IAD
Posts: 1339
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:43 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
Since when do states equal cities?

I don't like to use Wikipedia, especially for anything involving politics. Even so, by looking at the Wikipedia tables (county tables) for the 100 counties- I can tell you a majority of them are situated in or around big cities: New York, Newark, Miami, DC, Boston, (CT counties involved are NYC suburbs), San Francisco, LA, Philadelpha, Chicago. A majority of these Jewish "populations" are in the metropolitan areas of these cities. Your data, and my data, is both on the state level.

My sources:
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_judaism.html
http://www.jewishdatabank.org/AJYB/AJY-2001.pdf
 
travelin man
Posts: 3238
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 28):
Your data, and my data, is both on the state level.

Unfortunately your data is based on the highest "proportion" (%) of Jewish population (not actual numbers).

That would explain why Washington D.C. is ahead of California, even though California has a much larger # (922,000) than D.C (2,000).

Plus, your numbers are from 1995.
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:53 am

Despite the large Jewish community in New Jersey does anyone think that EL AL might end up axing EWR next and concentrating on JFK?
No Vueling No Party
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 26):
Again look on the bright side, you guys are picking up SA, VS and whats the other, B6? Not too shabby, imo.

Not to mention OS' return at the end of May...

You're right, I really can't complain  Smile

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 30):
Despite the large Jewish community in New Jersey does anyone think that EL AL might end up axing EWR next and concentrating on JFK?

I always thought that would happen a long time ago...

If it hasn't happened yet, I don't think it will happen anytime soon..
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4452
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:33 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 30):
Despite the large Jewish community in New Jersey does anyone think that EL AL might end up axing EWR next and concentrating on JFK?

Wouldn't surprise me at all if that happened, given the fact that any carrier not named CO seems to be cutting back flights and/or reducing capacity at my old home airport (EWR).  mad 
 
LXA340
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:26 pm

Does anybody know how LY is doing on their 2 daily flights to ZRH with the 737NG's ? Lx serves the route 2 daily as well once with A340 and once with A320 and the loadfactors are very good on average.
 
amirs
Topic Author
Posts: 1237
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:48 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
Not a huge surprise, IMO. I would expect them to possibly add a fourth weekly to Los Angeles, at least during the summer, and upgrade Miami to a 772.

EL AL adding a fourth flight this summer to LAX is old news my friend. I think they might even add a fifth.

24JUN 27JUL 1...... 1000 (TLV) 1530 (LAX) LY 105 777 0 EL AL
28JUL 01SEP 1...... 0730 (TLV) 1300 (LAX) LY 105 777 0 EL AL

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 33):
Does anybody know how LY is doing on their 2 daily flights to ZRH with the 737NG's ? Lx serves the route 2 daily as well once with A340 and once with A320 and the loadfactors are very good on average.

Traffic between TLV - ZRH for LX is priamrily based for pax that are connecting at ZRH. Thats why they are doing much better on the route. LY has more local traffic on the route.
 
LXA340
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:59 pm

Quoting Amirs (Reply 34):

Yes this is true, usually around 70% of the LX pax are transfering in ZRH. However the yields and loadfactor on the 737NG are good, making it a profitable route?
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:10 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 33):
Does anybody know how LY is doing on their 2 daily flights to ZRH with the 737NG's ?

Since you brought up the subject, how is LY doing of its three weekly flights to GVA? LY faces no competition from any scheduled carrier on this route, and I don't think that much connecting traffic passes through GVA.

El Al management is reviewing the viability of all of the airline's routes. It seems willing to eliminate many routes that are not losing money, but are not the most profitable either, such as ORD. I am wondering what European destinations will be axed in the next round of cost-cutting. GVA, BCN, ATH, SOF, BUH, LED, and destinations in former Soviet republics all come to mind as potential candidates.
 
LXA340
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:19 am

GVA is doing really well in the winter months when also many tourists are flown in for skiing in resorts in France and Switzerland. Hence they even use 772's and 744's occasionally. How the route performs during the rest of the year I don't know. Nevertheless it would be better for them to axe one of their daily ZRH operations as LX flies to TLV anyway 2X daily and rather use the extra aircraft for a new destination with a lot of potential of high yields
 
justplanes
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:31 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:32 am

My guess is that the cost of operating an extension such as the YYZ-ORD is very expensive.. You need a crew, the aircraft, fuel, landing and handling fees at Chicago and a 2nd set of landing and handling fees at Toronto etc...
If the airline feels it can do 80% occupancy from Toronto it makes no sense to continue the flight anywhere else...
If you calculate how much the Chicago passengers are paying on top of what Toronto passengers you will realize that that does not pay for the additional YYZ-ORD-YYZ rotation. Also with the weather conditions in North America, between snow/ice in the winter, thunderstorms in the summer, you put your schedule at high risk by combining 2 destinations...

How do I know all this... 10 years at the Boston station for Sabena... and combinations with Atlanta, Detroit, Chicago and Toronto... They were a disaster for the airline and certainly helped the losses of the company!

When we operated BRU-BOS-ATL-BOS-BRU, the flight was full every night. Say Atlanta boarded 100 pax on a given night... well we could have easily boarded an additional 100 pax but we didn't have the space... In the meantime the aircraft had an additional 8 hours of flight/ground time, we needed an additional crew to do the ATL leg, we paid landing/handling in ATL and paid it a 2nd time in BOS on the way back... all for nothing!
The flights were always late, either because of an Atlanta hold, a Boston hold on the way back, Washington flow control, weather there, here on en route...
A couple of years before the end Sabena finally realized they could not operate these double-station flights and did away witht hem. I'm sure if they had done that 5-6 years earlier it would have helped their financial condition quite a bit...
 
PEET7G
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 27):
I don't like to use Wikipedia, especially for anything involving politics. Even so, by looking at the Wikipedia tables (county tables) for the 100 counties- I can tell you a majority of them are situated in or around big cities: New York, Newark, Miami, DC, Boston, (CT counties involved are NYC suburbs), San Francisco, LA, Philadelpha, Chicago. A majority of these Jewish "populations" are in the metropolitan areas of these cities. Your data, and my data, is both on the state level.



Quoting Travelin man (Reply 29):
Unfortunately your data is based on the highest "proportion" (%) of Jewish population (not actual numbers).

That would explain why Washington D.C. is ahead of California, even though California has a much larger # (922,000) than D.C (2,000).

Plus, your numbers are from 1995.

Not to get too involved in the matter, but I think one fact you both ignore is that Chicago's Jewish population consists of Polish Jews mostly... hence the good yields for LOT (of course also thanks to all the other Polish immigrants)
Peet7G
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 37):
Nevertheless it would be better for them to axe one of their daily ZRH operations . . .and rather use the extra aircraft for a new destination with a lot of potential of high yields

What new destinations do you suggest?
 
LXA340
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:20 am

As already mentioned in the forum it looks like MAN has potential as it has a high jewish population and therefore operate this route again 3X weekly and if yields and load factors are good use larger aircraft or increase frequency. Also LY should look at the scandinavian market and operate 2-3X weekly to a city with a high potetnial for business travelers or / and jewish population. I know they operated once to HEL however it was discontinued a few years ago, was it unprofitable or was it due to other reasons?
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6099
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting Amirs (Reply 34):
EL AL adding a fourth flight this summer to LAX is old news my friend. I think they might even add a fifth.

Sweet. Not only do that add a fourth weekly to my home airport, but its a daylight flight. I hate flying at night and going westward overnight. I guess this means that LY is doing very well here in LA.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 29):
Despite the large Jewish community in New Jersey does anyone think that EL AL might end up axing EWR next and concentrating on JFK?

I have been on EWR flights many times. Those loads have always been very healthy IMO.
 
LY777
Posts: 2572
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:25 pm

To be honest, I have flown many many times CDG-TLV-CDG, and the load was ALWAYS 100%! I have never seen an empty seat!
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:39 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 43):
To be honest, I have flown many many times CDG-TLV-CDG, and the load was ALWAYS 100%! I have never seen an empty seat!

I guess I missed it, who mentioned CDG? Do you mean ORD-TLV-ORD...?
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
gemini573
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:53 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:14 am

I'm amazed with HKG getting an additional flight for a total of 5 weekly. When I was boarding my CX flight to LAX, I noticed quite a few passengers that were hold EL AL boarding passes. What a long way to head over to LAX via HKG!!!
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:37 am

huh, I didn't even know El-Al served Chicago...never even seen the aircraft at ORD...
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
DALelite
Posts: 1318
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 7:00 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:41 am

Is El Al perhaps in talks with Skyteam? Are they getting prepeared to become a member of the alliance???


cheers: DALelite

p.s. yes , i have done my homework. I read about that three other Airlines will be becoming Skyteam Members.
They loved to fly and it showed..
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:50 pm

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 46):
huh, I didn't even know El-Al served Chicago...never even seen the aircraft at ORD...

I'll give you that much, it's a very rare bird at ORD. Throughout my years of going to ORD, I've only seen it twice, and one was because I knew its departure time..
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

RE: EL AL To Close Chicago

Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting DALelite (Reply 47):
Is El Al perhaps in talks with Skyteam? Are they getting prepeared to become a member of the alliance?

I doubt that LY would join any alliance anytime soon. It does not seem to me that LY or any of the three main alliances would greatly benefit if LY joined. I am not sure that LY offers what airline alliances look for when they recruit new members. Although LY is a good airline, does its aircraft, schedules, networks, and inflight service meet the rigid standards that alliances require of their members? Also, LY has difference codeshare agreements with airlines in all three alliances. Joining an alliance would require LY to sever profitable or strategic codeshare arrangements with airlines in other alliance.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos