JAL, Malev, Royal Jordanian Join OneWorld 1 April

MAH4546 · Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:03 pm

Announced today, JAL, Royal Jordanian, and Malev will become members of oneWorld on 1 April 2007, the same day that Aer Lingus leaves the alliance.

By default association with JAL, oneWorld will also welcome JALways, Japan Asia Airways, J-AIR, Japan Transocean Air, and JAL Express.

Also joining in 2007 are LAN affiliates LAN Ecaudor and LAN Argentina and Cathay Pacific affiliate Dragonair, although dates have not been set.

http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/storie...story/02-01-2007/0004517747&EDATE=

Great to see oneWorld finally expand, especially with three key region airlines: a second major Asian carrier, an Eastern European airline, and the first Middle Eastern airline in an alliance.

bartond · Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:34 pm

MAH,

Do you think this will help to produce any new flights now that those carriers are to be full members of OneWorld? I know it takes a lot more than an alliance, but I was just wondering what this might do to spark interest in new flights.

PEET7G · Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:52 pm

Finally, a much needed expansion in key markets! MALEV will give excellent network to the alliance. Sure hope for them to expand BUD as an access point for east bound traffic. Maybe some Asian members start feeding flights to BUD? Anyone think it would be a gr8 feeder for JL, CX and I know it is only a dream, but how about even a QF flight to ease the pressure from Heathrow?

MAH4546 · Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:37 am

Quoting Bartond (Reply 1):

Do you think this will help to produce any new flights now that those carriers are to be full members of OneWorld? I know it takes a lot more than an alliance, but I was just wondering what this might do to spark interest in new flights.

The possibility exists. As the airlines get stronger in the alliance, I could see, for example, maybe Malev starting Budapest-Chicago, JAL starting Madrid-Tokyo, and Royal Jordanian starting Miami-Amman.

LXA340 · Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:43 am

Are there any plans for Malev to renew it's long haul fleet or to get additional aircraft to open up new routes?

tommybp251b · Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 4):
Are there any plans for Malev to renew it's long haul fleet or to get additional aircraft to open up new routes?

Try to search the forum!

MA will get 3 763 in the very near future.

PEET7G · Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 4):
Are there any plans for Malev to renew it's long haul fleet or to get additional aircraft to open up new routes?

Well they are getting 3X 763ER's to replace the 2X 762ER's... however who knows what comes after the privatization. I sure hope something will happen and they invest in their long haul business... if they can make it as perfect as their short haul product already is, then I can see a wonderful future for MALEV!

LXA340 · Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 6):

Thanks for that info. Yeah I heard they have a great product in europe. Mabye through joining One world it will be easier for them to open up routes as more potential passengers will be available from the network, so lets wait and see.

BA787 · Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:01 am

Good news for oneworld.

I think the MALEV and JAL entrances will do the alliance good, still holding out on RJ's presence. I mean I have heard good things about them, but I dont think they compare to the other middle-eastern airlines such as EK and EY.

Any airlines in talks with the alliance

airbuseric · Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 2):
Maybe some Asian members start feeding flights to BUD? Anyone think it would be a gr8 feeder for JL,

No, JL recently started a new codeshare on their late afternoon/early evening BUD-AMS vs AMS-BUD services. MA passengers to NRT will be booked via AMS on the JL flight.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
I could see, for example, JAL starting Madrid-Tokyo

Not to be expected. The amount of passengers between Spain and Japan is low. Currently very good codesharing is applicable between MAD-AMS vs AMS-MAD and BCN-AMS vs AMS-BCN. All JL passengers will be transferred to IB metal, all IB passengers TYO-bound will be flown via AMS and transferred on JL metal (nonstop AMS/NRT).

One thing, I don't know the future for the BCN codesharing as Clickair will takeover the BCN-AMS services from IB.

BA787 · Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 9):
Clickair will takeover the BCN-AMS services from IB.

True, but other than the LCC strategy they are effectively the same airline Big grin

MAH4546 · Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 9):
Not to be expected. The amount of passengers between Spain and Japan is low

With the growing size of Iberia's Madrid hub and JAL taking delivery of the 787 later this decade, I would fully expect it in 3-5 years.

SKY1 · Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:49 am

While IB doesn't fly again Japan and JAL saying that "If IB doesn't want to fly MAD-NRT-MAD neither want we" I see a small chance for seeing JAL flying NRT-MAD with 787's in 3-5 years, just like Mark says.

Anyhow, at this moment, the IB/JL code share via AMS works very well.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Great to see oneWorld finally expand, especially with three key region airlines: a second major Asian carrier, an Eastern European airline, and the first Middle Eastern airline in an alliance.

A VERY GOOD selection, indeed champagne

By the way, it's shame EI leaves oneworld ...but with these new airlines members, OW is even more global and balanced geographically.

rootsair · Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:53 am

Its nice to see Oneworld expanding. They've have the same members for so many years !
And its good to see a GOOD airline enter OW like JAL or Malev to replace Aer Lingus !

HEGAN · Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:58 am

Very good news!

OW seemd a second class alliance comparing with the more dynnamic SkyTeam and Star.

I can only see IB flying to NRT if LCCs keep increasing their share in MAD and IB is forced to look for new routes.

Agur,
HEGAN

andaman · Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 12):
While IB doesn't fly again Japan and JAL saying that "If IB doesn't want to fly MAD-NRT-MAD neither want we" I see a small chance for seeing JAL flying NRT-MAD with 787's in 3-5 years, just like Mark says.

Anyhow, at this moment, the IB/JL code share via AMS works very well.

BCN and MAD have OW connections to Japan also via HEL, it seems Finnair has got transit markets in Spain too.

ClassicLover · Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 8):
I think the MALEV and JAL entrances will do the alliance good, still holding out on RJ's presence. I mean I have heard good things about them, but I dont think they compare to the other middle-eastern airlines such as EK and EY.

RJ have recently upgraded everything. New cabin interiors across the fleet, PTVs across the fleet, online bookings, new web site, and so on. I am flying RJ on March 29 and 2 April (points, yay!) in Crown Class from LHR-AMM then AMM-BKK, so look out for a trip report.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 12):
By the way, it's shame EI leaves oneworld

It is a shame, but they are retaining links with AA, CX, BA and QF.

oneworld did the right thing - as the press release says, they concentrated on keeping their airlines profitable over the last few years, rather than expanding the alliance. It's paid off handsomely!

7474ever · Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 6):
Well they are getting 3X 763ER's to replace the 2X 762ER's...

PEET7G, any idea about expanding MA's long haul routes ? NRT or BKK maybe ?

PEET7G · Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 17):
PEET7G, any idea about expanding MA's long haul routes ? NRT or BKK maybe ?

Well, the first of the 763ER's will arrive this spring and the rest will be added at 1/year in '08 and '09. The 2 762ER's will remain in the fleet with the first one to be leased out when the second dash300 will arrive. So with 3 767's in the fleet they will maintain JFK , YYZ and BKK apart from that there are rumors of charters to Japan and of course the usual ones to Kenya, Cuba, etc.

planemanofnz · Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:30 am

Yes, but EI is leaving on 1 April cry

abrelosojos · Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Miami-Amman.

= I actually think MIA-AMM would be an excellent link. Lots of Arab decendants in Latin America who can take advantage of MIA, and then AMM hub of MEA; though, Lebanese origin people would probably stick with AF ... unless those in the higher end who all have allegiance to AA and OW miles.

-A.

miaskies · Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:24 pm

Great News, Royal Jordanian served MIA in the past with L1011's and A310's, it would be great to have them back.

gemini573 · Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 16):
oneworld did the right thing - as the press release says, they concentrated on keeping their airlines profitable over the last few years, rather than expanding the alliance. It's paid off handsomely!

I agree. Look at Star Alliance. They have so many airlines in central Europe. Austrian, Swiss, Lufthansa, and SAS. Austrian probably wasn't too happy when Swiss came onboard. Plus, it seems as though these carriers are all made to feed traffic into LH.

With oneworld, there's not too much overlap. Also, generally speaking the quality of carriers are quite good; BA, QF, CX, and LA. Soon JL. Some carriers, I certainly think could do better, but overall they are very good.

ClassicLover · Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting Gemini573 (Reply 22):
With oneworld, there's not too much overlap. Also, generally speaking the quality of carriers are quite good; BA, QF, CX, and LA. Soon JL. Some carriers, I certainly think could do better, but overall they are very good.

I agree with you there - it would be good for oneworld to have an African airline - maybe Ethiopian - to come on board.

What I enjoyed was seeing the change in RJ (moreso than the other two). RJ had a crap web site, it's now thousands of times better - for example you can book online and do all the things you couldn't before. The interior decor (red seats) looked dated and they replaced both the seat and colour scheme throughout the fleet. They obviously were told to step it up as part of the joining criteria.

andaman · Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting Gemini573 (Reply 22):

I agree. Look at Star Alliance. They have so many airlines in central Europe. Austrian, Swiss, Lufthansa, and SAS. Austrian probably wasn't too happy when Swiss came onboard. Plus, it seems as though these carriers are all made to feed traffic into LH.

With oneworld, there's not too much overlap. Also, generally speaking the quality of carriers are quite good; BA, QF, CX, and LA. Soon JL. Some carriers, I certainly think could do better, but overall they are very good.

I agree too.
Just few things... SAS, once my babe, can't really be called a Central-European carrier.
And in OW, also AY has been succesful, with a very strong growth, especially in Asia.

gemini573 · Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 24):
AY has been succesful, with a very strong growth, especially in Asia.

Absolutely!!! I think they made a wise decision to axe the BKK-SIN sector. I will miss the very good J class fare specials they have on that route, but I guess AY will leave that route for CX (which also has good I class specials on the BKK-SIN sector).

Making HKG a daily was also a smart move!!! All in all, good decision making when it comes to Asia expansion.

rootsair · Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:09 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 19):
Yes, but EI is leaving on 1 April

You have to admit EI was by far the weakest link of the alliance!

UpperDeck79 · Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:52 pm

On a related not, why doesn't AY have any code-shares on CX metal? Now that HEL-HKG is a daily flight in the summer, these would work very well schedule-wise:

AY067 HEL-HKG 16:50-07:25+1 (M11)

CX460 HKG-TPE 08:35-10:15 (744)
CX901 HKG-MNL 09:10-11:15 (330)

------------------------------------

CX904 MNL-HKG 06:35-8:30 (330)
CX463 TPE-HKG 06:25-8:00 (343)

AY068 HKG-HEL 09:45-15:05 (M11)

shamrock350 · Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:09 pm

Great news for OneWorld!

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 26):
You have to admit EI was by far the weakest link of the alliance!

That's very true but Aer Lingus has a great brand and it will leave just as the new J cabins and long-haul upgrades are completed in April. The future of EI looks great. It's just a shame it wont be able to share it with OW.

PEET7G · Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:49 pm

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 28):
That's very true but Aer Lingus has a great brand and it will leave just as the new J cabins and long-haul upgrades are completed in April. The future of EI looks great. It's just a shame it wont be able to share it with OW.

Agree

Anyone know why EI left the alliance? Did they leave because they have some other plans or they where told to do so?

BrianDromey · Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 29):
Anyone know why EI left the alliance? Did they leave because they have some other plans or they where told to do so?

They left because OW provided them with very little benifits over codeshares and agreements with specific airlines of interest.

When EI joined OW, it was mainly a feeder airline for BA and its partners, with few links outside the main hubs. At that time there was roughly 15 routes from DUB.(Today there are more routes from ORK than there was at that time from DUB)

Now EI has many, many more routes flown in its own right and does not need to feed traffic into BA @ LHR. It has plans to expand to the east and west, so BA/AA/CX/QF codeshares are a buch better and cheaper option.

EI never brought that much to the OW table, and its departure will go unnoticed, as ORK DUB SNN will all remain served by OW carriers in their own right, along with BA and AA codeshares from LHR.

ClassicLover · Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 29):
Anyone know why EI left the alliance? Did they leave because they have some other plans or they where told to do so?

I was told it was because of JAL coming on board. It was going to cost something in the region of € 2,000,000 for EI to upgrade their computer systems to be compatible, they didn't want to pay it, and therefore decided to leave.

Various other rumours were that they left because the alliance wasn't making them much money so they left, or that oneworld booted them due to the low fares concept. Make your own decisions.

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 28):
That's very true but Aer Lingus has a great brand and it will leave just as the new J cabins and long-haul upgrades are completed in April. The future of EI looks great. It's just a shame it wont be able to share it with OW.

Sure, the new J cabins on the two new A330s but not the rest of the fleet Smile

BrianDromey · Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 31):
It was going to cost something in the region of € 2,000,000 for EI to upgrade their computer systems to be compatible, they didn't want to pay it, and therefore decided to leave.

Ive heard this too...but heres the thing, wouldnt EI ahve had to pay a "break-out" fee to OW to leave?

I doubt EI were kicked out, afterall IB have a similar concept for Europe. The roumers of EI leaving oneworld had been around for a few years before the announcement was made.

ClassicLover · Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:10 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 32):
Ive heard this too...but heres the thing, wouldnt EI ahve had to pay a "break-out" fee to OW to leave?

I'm not entirely sure about the whole way the finances of getting in and out of an alliance work. If they did, as EI are now a listed company, it will probably show up on the annual report if it wasn't paid beforehand... might be something to keep an eye out for.

DiscoverCSG · Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:22 am

Regarding RJ, what do their long-haul fleet/network bring to OW?

Also, how does their J-class product compare to the likes of BA and QF, and, for that matter, EK, QR, and friends?

ClassicLover · Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 34):
Regarding RJ, what do their long-haul fleet/network bring to OW?

Not a hell of a lot - it's the Middle East network that was the prize. The alliance didn't have any presence in Iraq and Yemen and they now do, plus a great regional network out of Amman.

It's here - http://www.rja.com.jo/FlightTools/RouteMap/tabid/160/Default.aspx

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 34):
Also, how does their J-class product compare to the likes of BA and QF, and, for that matter, EK, QR, and friends?

The J class product is not on par with BA, QF, CX, EK or QR. They have lie flat seats, I'd say on par with AY's product judging by the pictures.

carledwards · Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:03 am

The oneworld expansion is definately getting nearer.

All of the onboard booking classes on the 3 new airlines are being changed over now from the 1st April , to the Oneworld Class specifications. For example N,Q,V, etc.

PEET7G · Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 34):
Regarding RJ, what do their long-haul fleet/network bring to OW?

Also, how does their J-class product compare to the likes of BA and QF, and, for that matter, EK, QR, and friends?

Well tremendous improvement going on for the last years... take a look your self at their new A320's and A321's:

Crown Class

Economy Class

(Quick Time required)

PEET7G · Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:51 am

Oh by the way, anyone have any further info on their intention to buy/lease 787's? I know they made a statement on this ( Boeing Statement on Royal Jordanian's 787 Selection ) , but any further info? When will they firm them up? And how many are planned?

gemini573 · Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 37):
Well tremendous improvement going on for the last years... take a look your self at their new A320's and A321's:

Wow, their Crown class seats on their A320's remind me of CX regional business class seats. Only difference is,the RJ seats are leather (at least from the pics), and the CX seats are cloth.

I'm definitely excited about the 3 soon to be oneworld carriers!

On a side note, I was looking online at flightglobal and did a search for oneworld alliance. It's interesting how it says that they are interested in keeping the alliance to 12 carriers. If that's true, anyone care to take a guess who the last two carriers would be?

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...rld-sets-target-of-12-members.html

ClassicLover · Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 36):
All of the onboard booking classes on the 3 new airlines are being changed over now from the 1st April , to the Oneworld Class specifications. For example N,Q,V, etc.

Yes, however you still can't enter your FF number for bookings after 1 April on the new airlines. I believe the JAL website said that would be available for them sometime after 20 February, so perhaps it's the same for all...

Quoting Gemini573 (Reply 39):
It's interesting how it says that they are interested in keeping the alliance to 12 carriers. If that's true, anyone care to take a guess who the last two carriers would be?

I would guess they want a Canadian carrier (the rumour is WestJet but I don't see that happening personally), and I'd imagine an African carrier - I'm still betting on Ethiopian. Are there any other half decent carriers in Africa at all or would Ethiopian be the best bet?

skyzheimers · Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:38 am

a big impact on all alliance partners will be the day Dragonair becomes a full member of OW...
I think we can expect to see AA finally start ORD-HKG service in '08 (if their pilots agree to it) and some of the other alliance partners concentrating more on HKG for China services... I could see a nonstop between MAD and HKG on either CX or IB...

gemini573 · Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:40 pm

Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 41):
a big impact on all alliance partners will be the day Dragonair becomes a full member of OW...
I think we can expect to see AA finally start ORD-HKG service in '08 (if their pilots agree to it) and some of the other alliance partners concentrating more on HKG for China services... I could see a nonstop between MAD and HKG on either CX or IB...

I don't see Dragonair becoming a full member of oneworld. There is a possiblity that KA might be folded in to CX, but not for 6 years, as stated in the agreement.

As far as AA starting service to HKG, they should of done it a long time ago. If they can fly ORD-DEL, I don't see why they can't do ORD-HKG? They really dropped the ball on that one. They have a wonderful partner in CX, which can provide the feed beyond HKG to other parts of Asia.

MAD is a strong possiblity, but it won't happen until CX gets more planes. I think their focus is boosting frequencies to existing destinations.

IB could do it, but I think their focus is more on Latin America.

I could see RJ doing BKK-HKG.

BALAX · Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:17 pm

Does CX serve BKK-SIN nonstop?

InbarD · Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:09 pm

This is good, now one world has even more members, i always thought they had room for a few more members to increase international destinations. May be on my next flight to Israel i can pass through NRT with JL instead of having to stop at HKG, BKK or SIN...

PEET7G · Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:29 pm

Quoting BALAX (Reply 43):
Does CX serve BKK-SIN nonstop?

Yep:

CX713 BKK 12:45 SIN 16:10 /daily 744
CX712 SIN 13:50 BKK 15:10 /daily EQV (mainly 777)

BALAX · Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:38 pm

Is TAM gonna join OW soon?

ClassicLover · Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting Skyzheimers (Reply 41):
a big impact on all alliance partners will be the day Dragonair becomes a full member of OW...

They're only becoming an associate member under CX. There's no plan for them to become a full member.

As someone else said, you'll see Dragonair merged into Cathay eventually, without a doubt...

Quoting BALAX (Reply 46):
Is TAM gonna join OW soon?

Do you know something we don't? I hadn't heard of this before... isn't South America covered well enough by LAN? LAN Argentina and LAN Ecuador are coming on board this year...

BALAX · Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:14 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 47):
Do you know something we don't? I hadn't heard of this before... isn't South America covered well enough by LAN? LAN Argentina and LAN Ecuador are coming on board this year...

I don't know. Just thought I'd ask since AA and TAM have been codesharing for quite some time now. I think they like each other..hehe.. Anyhow, I was thnking that TAM covers the majority of Brazil and maybe a market here and there that LAN doesn't cover so is there a chance they might be invited to join OW as well?

skyzheimers · Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:15 am

"a big impact on all alliance partners will be the day Dragonair becomes a full member of OW"

sorry guys... should have put it differently...
"a big impact on all alliance partners will be the day Dragonair will be offering the full services and benefits of all OW members"
scheduled to happen at some point in '07

"As far as AA starting service to HKG, they should of done it a long time ago. If they can fly ORD-DEL, I don't see why they can't do ORD-HKG? They really dropped the ball on that one. They have a wonderful partner in CX, which can provide the feed beyond HKG to other parts of Asia"

couldn't agree with you more...

these are the reasons AA gives for never starting the service after having been granted antitrust immunity with CX:
deteriorating yields in South East Asia because of LCCs...
little access to China's mainland with CX...
well, Dragonair is going to deliver unprecedented access to China for AA at HKG and I would be surprised - especially after not receiving authority to fly to PEK - if we don't get an announcement soon...

Why ORD-DEL?
According to AA's VP Marketing and I quote: 'DEL wasn't on top of our list of cities to fly to but we had to start it before UA would'
word has it they've been losing money on the route which is quite surprising given the heavy loads all year especially in premium cabins? If in deed that's the case I wouldn't be surprised if that equipment is going to be flying to HKG in '08...
in the meantime UA has increased their ORD-HKG to 2x daily without a major alliance partner feeding into them at Hong Kong and despite 'deteriorating yields' in SE Asia...

biggrin

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