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airplanenut
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Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:34 pm

After getting assigned the "window" seat in row 14 of an AirTran 737 again, I learned my lesson this time and changed the seat. Last time I flew on one of their 737s, I ended up in a window seat without a window. Who thought to do this, and why do they just skip a seat?
Why yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist...
 
TEBGuy
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:40 pm

It is quite possible that various hoses (for AC or something) were routed thru this area. In that case, you would not have a window.
Remember, taking off is optional, landing is mandatory.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:42 pm

AS does this on their 734's between rows 8-9, I believe.

[Edited 2007-02-01 16:00:14]
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AeroWesty
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:56 pm

If it's really that important to you, you can check seatguru.com ahead of time, and make note of any non-window rows for the airline you're flying. The first time I was seated in one was on a USAir 757 (back when it was USAir), and it suited me just fine, as the whole flight from CLT to LAX was in darkness and I slept all the way home after finishing dinner.
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iahcsr
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting TEBguy (Reply 1):
various hoses (for AC or something) were routed thru this area

Bingo.. You win ...  bigthumbsup  the 'risers' from the air pacs are routed though this area on both 737 and 757.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
Dtw757
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:18 am

I think if you look at a picture of pretty much any Boeing airplane you will find that there are windows missing for this purpose
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:23 am

I understand what theses are for, however there is something I've been wondering for some time now.

On most airliners there is simply a window or two missing for said parts. But... what about airliners that don't have these spaces, such as the 737-100/200, MD-80, A320, etc. Where do they put those parts?
Routed to the end of the row of windows? Split up to fit between windows? Smaller so they can fit easier between windows (although I don't think so, as for example the A320 doesn't have a space but the smaller A319 does)?


Thanks
CanadianNorth
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Francoflier
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:24 am

CO 777-200: Be wary of row 21 if you're on the window side... There is none.

The worst seat I've ever sat on. There's 2 seats between you and the aisle, and a big dull wall on the other side. Talk about claustrophobia, I started to feel really uncomfortable even before we started to taxi. Fortunately they let me change seat quickly.
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NASBWI
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:37 am

I have a question about window gaps, actually (since we're on the subject). Is there a reason that DL's MD-88s/90s have a gap in their windows only on the left side of their fuselage? It's not on the right hand side, and no other airline has a window missing on their MD-80s/90s.
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Gr8Circle
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):
AS does this on their 734's between rows 8-9, I believe.

I don't think this is something the airlines do....it's part of the aircraft design....

I've had this experience on 737-700's and A310's, both of which have a window missing roughly at the point where the Y class starts on any typical airline config....and it really sucks!!!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:46 am

On Boeing twin jets this missing window lines up with the fan of the engines. While they have used it for duct work (non critical) I always thought the reason it was in that spot was for un-contained engine failure protection. On some Boeing models, there is a second missing window on the left side that may be there simply because there is more ductwork needed for that model than 2 locations can provide for.

A 737-100/200 has underwing, not pod engines. An MD80 has no wing engines at all.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 6):
But... what about airliners that don't have these spaces, such as the 737-100/200, MD-80, A320, etc. Where do they put those parts

The B732 had a RH Side distribution Duct with numerous smaller hoses to the Overhead distribution duct unlike ont the Other models.
regds
MEL
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AA737-823
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 5):
I think if you look at a picture of pretty much any Boeing airplane

Airbus does it too.
Also, the 747 (having three AC packs) has three risers on each side of the aircraft. On my cargo planes, since there aren't any cabin walls, you can clearly see them. They're fiberglass, rectangular ducts that take up the entire space from frame to frame in the window area.

The 757-200 has just two risers, while the 757-300 has three risers, because Boeing decided the stretched fuselage required an additional zone. It's only got two packs, as usual, but one extra zone. Hence, another riser.

It actually has nothing to do with uncontained engine failure. A blade will go through pretty much anything you put in its way, unless maybe you tried a solid block of lead. Passengers were killed in a Delta MD-88 that blew engine 1 some years ago, due to shrapnel. But no, there is nothing there to protect from debris. In fact, it doesn't even line up with the fan. It looks like it does, but if you stand next to the engine, you'll see that it doesn't.
 
sideflare75
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 6):
On most airliners there is simply a window or two missing for said parts. But... what about airliners that don't have these spaces, such as the 737-100/200, MD-80, A320, etc. Where do they put those parts?

The MD-80's air distribution ducting is already in the ceiling so no need for risers. There are some smaller ducts that run down behind the walls but they are not big enough to block off any windows.
 
dc863
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:47 am

It was hit or miss getting a window on the DC-8.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):
In fact, it doesn't even line up with the fan. It looks like it does, but if you stand next to the engine, you'll see that it doesn't.

So it's just pretty coincidental, since I guess near the wing is a good place to run those things. You can't obviously run them by the overwing exits.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 8):
I have a question about window gaps, actually (since we're on the subject). Is there a reason that DL's MD-88s/90s have a gap in their windows only on the left side of their fuselage? It's not on the right hand side, and no other airline has a window missing on their MD-80s/90s.

DL wanted a conditioned air hookup closer to the jetway than the standard MD-80 one next to the airstair. This optional hookup is near the blanked out window.

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 6):
But... what about airliners that don't have these spaces, such as the 737-100/200, MD-80, A320, etc. Where do they put those parts?

The 727 had 2 flexible rubber hoses routed around each window in the cabin. Obviously, two fibreglass ducts blocking two windows are a lot less maintenance than several hundred rubber hoses.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

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Cessna057
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:05 am

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 7):
CO 777-200: Be wary of row 21 if you're on the window side... There is none.

I wish I would have gotten that warning before....I got on CO89 and was so excited to be on a window seat. I got on and found out, there is none. Luckily I got upgraded =]
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azstagecoach
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:17 am

Great thread. I have always wondered this myself. Thanks fellow anetters for all of the information.

Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 16):
DL wanted a conditioned air hookup closer to the jetway than the standard MD-80 one next to the airstair. This optional hookup is near the blanked out window.

1. What about the 717?
2. Does this mean that AA and other MD operators run air hookups at the gate to the back of the plane? Never noticed...
 
scouse
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:46 am

I like the window seat if only to be able to lift the blind and take a view whenever I want. On my last flight from CPT to AMS the first 6 hours was in the dark but then we end up over mid and north Africa so was looking forward to that view. I got in my seat 12 A with a window right in the middle so no stretching of the neck  Smile . Just after I settled in the FA said she had changed my seat, so I thought an upgrade to J  Smile After I picked all my carry on up she said it is another window seat and it was 15J.
When I get there it is one of the rows on the KL 777 that has the blanked off window and sitting next to me is a little 2 year old girl and her mum  banghead . What a let down for a 12 hour flight I thought .
The good points were that the little girl was so well behaved and her mum was interesting to talk to and the infligt trivia quiz was good.
Love to fly
 
Woosie
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 6):
On most airliners there is simply a window or two missing for said parts. But... what about airliners that don't have these spaces, such as the 737-100/200, MD-80, A320, etc. Where do they put those parts?

Douglas twinjets route A/C ducting in the overhead, between the bagracks, as others have said. That's what's hiding above the ceiling, that and plenty of wire.

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 8):
have a question about window gaps, actually (since we're on the subject). Is there a reason that DL's MD-88s/90s have a gap in their windows only on the left side of their fuselage?

In front, for the lavatory installation.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
On Boeing twin jets this missing window lines up with the fan of the engines. While they have used it for duct work (non critical) I always thought the reason it was in that spot was for un-contained engine failure protection.



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):
It actually has nothing to do with uncontained engine failure. A blade will go through pretty much anything you put in its way, unless maybe you tried a solid block of lead.

Blades are alot easier to protect, as compared to the fan hub. Not much of anything, except the main landing gear bogie, will withstand the forces it creates when it lets go. 2nd are wheel failures, followed by tire failures. Then comes blade out energies.
 
Garri767
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
.

ha! i caught mel using punctuation, does he lose that bet? Big grin



back on topic. i also have wondered why the missing window was there.....and i never found one on the 727, but that is just me.






Garri767
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sideflare75
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 18):
1. What about the 717?
2. Does this mean that AA and other MD operators run air hookups at the gate to the back of the plane? Never noticed...

1. Same as all the other DC-9 family.

2. Yeap sure does.
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:45 am

Quoting Airplanenut (Thread starter):
Who thought to do this, and why do they just skip a seat?

They know they can get a butt in the seat, usually a paying butt too, so why not? Most people don't give a rats...butt if they have a window or not, as long as they get there. Unfortunately for those of us who love to fly, and are unaware of particular layouts, we end up getting screwed.

[Edited 2007-02-02 03:55:45]
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skyhigh777
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting Airplanenut (Thread starter):
After getting assigned the "window" seat in row 14 of an AirTran 737 again, I learned my lesson this time and changed the seat. Last time I flew on one of their 737s, I ended up in a window seat without a window. Who thought to do this, and why do they just skip a seat?

I actually just flew on AirTran's 737 from DCA-ATL and this exact same thing happened to my friend and I...we thought we were gonna have a window seat but were pretty disappointed at the random wall instead of window.
 
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bluestreak
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:53 am

I was on a USAirways Express (Mesa) flight from LAS to LAX on Saturday.
I was seated in row 10 on a CRJ 900. As soon as I arrived at my row, I was
sad to see there was no window. I always try to book window seats, I was looking forward to seeing the Las Vegas strip from the air. The plane was full, so I wasn't able to pick an empty seat with a window. Once seated, I was
able to turn around, and look out the window which was just behind the seat back. I wasn't able to take any pictures of the strip, and my neck hurt by the end of the flight!
I flew on another USAir Express flight ironiclly, (CCAir), on a Shorts 360. Same
result, no window at the window seat, but I enjoyed flying on that little ugly plane!

Bluestreak
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AirEMS
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting Airplanenut (Thread starter):
After getting assigned the "window" seat in row 14 of an AirTran 737 again, I learned my lesson this time and changed the seat. Last time I flew on one of their 737s, I ended up in a window seat without a window. Who thought to do this, and why do they just skip a seat?

A very very evil person!  devil 

-Carl
If Your Dying Were Flying
 
okelleynyc
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:03 pm

This is all too funny!

I just flew back from Chicago to Los Angeles on Tuesday night on a 767 and was in United's Economy Plus (row 13 seat A). I had no window either, although, if I really raked my seat back enough, I could just manage a peek out the window.

I was going to post something here, but thought "Naw, it's surely been posted here before".

Thanks Airplanenut for giving me an opportunity to vent!
Just give me my Vario, my Ozone Mojo and a gorgeous day of soaring.
 
ckfred
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:35 pm

The last row on the F100s had no window. I believe that the engine pylon is located there.

It's been a while since I rode in the back of an AA MD-80, but during MRTC, row 31 had a nice view of the engine cowling. If you leaned your head against the window, you could see a little in front of the engine.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:53 pm

What's important is that the checkin staff should inform you of this. If they are assigning seats, then they know what aircraft type is being used. This is especially if someone specifically asks for a window seat, becasue they are wanting to get a window. If there is no window then it's courteous of the checkin agent to inform the passenger of this.

I found this out on a very tatty old KLM 733 a few years back. It was the final straw in a string of horrible experiences with the airline ensuring I will never fly them again.
 
NWADC9
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:22 pm

That's what seatguru.com's for... Wink
I get paid to convert dead dino juice into noise.
 
wukka
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:38 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 28):
It's been a while since I rode in the back of an AA MD-80, but during MRTC, row 31 had a nice view of the engine cowling.

One of the worst rides for me was on a DL Maddog at the very back. Opened the shade to see nothing but blue paint, and the weird harmonics between the two engines... "wah wah waah waaah waaaah waaaaaaah waaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaah waaaaaaah waaaah waaah waah wah wah" (repeat for all of cruise)!!!

Thankfully it was only a 2.5 hour flight!  Smile
We can agree to disagree.
 
TG990
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:47 pm

The Jetstar A320's I work on all have no window on the back left row (30). Apparently it's because usually a lav is there, however Jetstar thought it's better to cram an extra 3 seats in there without a window (and right next door to another lav!)
 
mikesairways
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:08 pm

I was on a NWA 757 and my seat got changed to 12A (downgrade from 753 to 752) and I was apalled there was no window, just the panel - the only saving grace was that it was a redeye and I was able to sleep (as good as I could with two fat women and a lap child in 12B).
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
 
cpairDC10
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:18 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):

Air Berlin too on row 7. Had a tussel with my daughter for the window seat and ended up with a blanked off one !!!
 
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:58 pm

I ended up in the same spot on a NW A333 back in 2005...AMS-SEA with no window would have been pretty weak, I was lucky to get switched.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:07 pm

You're all forgetting the TWA DC9s that had cargo doors installed, but deactivated. (There was at least one, and maybe more. IIRC, this may also have been a JATO aircraft.) I flew on that plane more than once, and it was always a kick to see people towards the front of the a/c being surprised that several rows had no windows. Otherwise, a lovely aircraft, and I don't think it was one of the first to go when the 717s started coming aboard.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 12):
It actually has nothing to do with uncontained engine failure. A blade will go through pretty much anything you put in its way, unless maybe you tried a solid block of lead. Passengers were killed in a Delta MD-88 that blew engine 1 some years ago, due to shrapnel.

Well, there's a titanium ring that's supposed to help contain certain failures, but when the hub disintegrates like it did on that JT8D, that's an awful lot of kinetic energy to control. That was a sad day for DL, a mother and her young son were killed; hard to believe they missed the propagating crack in the hub when inspecting the engine at overhaul before it was swapped onto that MD88, and I never got the full story about whether what the co-pilot saw on his walkaround (loose rivets, leaking oil) which the crew discussed and dismissed on the CVR, was eventually associated in any way with the failure.

CNN Story at the time: http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/08/delta.ntsb/
 
soups
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:17 pm

i had that on LX, pissed me off also flgith was 100% full so couldnt move about:-(
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:08 pm

Two years ago I flew GIG-LIS on a Varig/EuroAtlantic 767, and I got a window seat as I asked for, only to find out it had no window, was in front of the L2 exit (so seat didn't recline) and I had a big guy sitting next to me - and this would be a nine-hour red eye flight... Fortunately they upgraded some people so I could switch, have a decent window seat and an empty aisle seat next to it so I could lie down. Slept very well...

For comparison, the outbound flight LIS-GRU was on a 777 in biz class seat (even though pax had economy tickets), fully reclinable. Now that was a comfortable flight. It might be (not sure) that this 777 is the one that is broken up now. Strange idea...
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LOT767-300ER
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting Scouse (Reply 19):
The good points were that the little girl was so well behaved and her mum was interesting to talk to and the infligt trivia quiz was good.

Similar than the trivia on LX.

That being said, it does get quite boring after you have practically dominated half the plane in the quiz.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:36 pm

Quoting Garri767 (Reply 21):
ha! i caught mel using punctuation, does he lose that bet

Its about the non use of "only" the Question mark.Was worried for a sec  Smile

Quoting Garri767 (Reply 21):
and i never found one on the 727, but that is just me.

Is the B727 Distribution duct like the B732s.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
hz747300
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:00 pm

Row 33, either side of the plane on CX's 773s.... side of the plane, no window...

also, suffered in the return flight on a UA 744 from SFO to SYD. There was no window in the exit row just behind the wing.
Keep on truckin'...
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:25 pm

If it makes you feel better, I got a window seat without a window from LHR to HKG on G-VMEG, Virgin Atlantic A340. 13 hours of it! 33K I think..... or 32K. From HKG to SYD though I was in the seat in front so I got a window and extra legroom because it was an exit seat!!! I hope when I go back to England I get a better seat.
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AirframeAS
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 9):
I don't think this is something the airlines do....it's part of the aircraft design....

Actually, its a bit of both. The aircraft manufacturer: self-explainatory. The airlines are the ones who chose the seats and pitch.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Bofredrik
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:43 pm

I have seen this on DC-8 (DK) back in the 70:s, A310 (SR) in the 80:s and 747:s (UA) in the 90:s...

And i always feel bad... Like i am in a closet.
 
incitatus
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:05 am

If you get a window seat that does not have a window, the seat has been misnamed. Even though airlines only recognize three types of seats (window, middle, aisle), there is a fourth type, the wall seat, that needs official recognition in seating charts. That's what you got: a WALL seat.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
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longhauler
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting Dc863 (Reply 14):
It was hit or miss getting a window on the DC-8.

That's funny! I recall when a kid and flying on Air Canada's DC-8s all the time, I was armed with seat charts. The DC-8-40, DC-8-53, DC-8-55F and the DC-8-61/63 all had unique seat charts, and as you mention there were rows that had no windows at all, and some with perfectly aligned windows.

I would stand in front of the huge aircraft layout at the gate covered with seat stickers, (that was how seats were assigned in the "old days") see what was open, then look at my charts and choose.

As everyone mentions, to a gate agent, a window is a window is a window. We know better!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
stirling
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:42 am

Then there are those Antonovs scooting around Cuba....with few or no windows at all!

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stirling
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:44 am

And then an outside view.....


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socalfive
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RE: Who Thought To Make A Window Seat With No Windows?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting Futureualpilot (Reply 23):
Unfortunately for those of us who love to fly, and are unaware of particular layouts, we end up getting screwed.

There's a plus for Southwest's boarding procedure, if no window is an issue, you can just walk right past it and sit elsewhere.

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