NASOCEANA
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Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:41 am

Was the Concorde ever considered for an VIP Jet? My rational is that their were individuals that had the means to purchase the Concorde for private use. There have been VIP Jet orders for B747, B777, A380, and A340 in the past. Was it illegal to do so!

Thanks for any responses!

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zippyjet
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:48 am

It would have been a nice idea except, as they say when they knew the Concorde would be retired out of commercial service they as they say; threw out the recipe with the cake. Besides the noise restrictions and fuel inefficiency, to update this bird would be like starting from scratch. And since at least for the time being only rock stars and business money folk would be willing to pony up the premium $$$ all the engineers, and others went on to other projects and endeavors. The next great hope for hypersonic aviation will be in the biz jet industry.
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XXXX10
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:56 am

Technically it was possible to hire a Concorde as a private jet. When working at LHR there was a story in the local paper that told of a passenger who had missed an AF flight CDG-JFK who then dicided to chartered one. Luckily AF had a plane and a crew available.

Concorde was also used by at least four prime-ministers one monarch and a pope.

I appreciate that this is not what your original question was refering to, as for new build examples I can assure you that with the export total standing at 0 units they would have sold the bird to anyone who could afford it.
 
albird87
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:20 am

hmmm i would of loved to see one of the old BA concordes put in as a royal jet for the queen but alas i dount the tax payers saw this. I mean it would be great if at least on BA plane was kept in flying condition and used for government use but they dont seem to like the idea of flying british equipment!!
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:44 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 3):
hmmm i would of loved to see one of the old BA concordes put in as a royal jet for the queen but alas i dount the tax payers saw this. I mean it would be great if at least on BA plane was kept in flying condition and used for government use but they dont seem to like the idea of flying british equipment!!

The concorde was old... and EADS was dropping their support for it anyhow... it's time had come.

As for British carriers not flying british planes, what aircraft does Britain currently produce for them to fly?
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
Cessna057
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:02 am

Its too much to operate. Not many people (if any) would be able to get it.
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EMBQA
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting NASOCEANA (Thread starter):
Was the Concorde ever considered for an VIP Jet?

The Concorde was a VIP jet. 99% of the normal passenger were all Heads of State, major leaders of industry, Movie Stars, Kings, Queen...etc. It was never just your regular 'joe'
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flydreamliner
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:08 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
Quoting NASOCEANA (Thread starter):
Was the Concorde ever considered for an VIP Jet?

The Concorde was a VIP jet. 99% of the normal passenger were all Heads of State, major leaders of industry, Movie Stars, Kings, Queen...etc. It was never just your regular 'joe'

Alright now, the tickets were not THAT much. They weren't really too far off base with what C went for anyhow... given you got less room, you weren't there long enough to mind.

I knew people who flew on Concorde, they were not heads of state, movie stars, royalty, or on the fortune 500 (though they didn't do too poorly either).
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fbgdavidson
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
The Concorde was a VIP jet. 99% of the normal passenger were all Heads of State, major leaders of industry, Movie Stars, Kings, Queen...etc. It was never just your regular 'joe'

That is completely untrue. Yes, these people did fly Concorde but most of the people onboard were those of whom the time saved was worth more than the difference between an R and an F Class ticket.

Many people confuse Concorde. It was a time saving instrument more than anything else, not some uber luxury VIP transport. You don't even have to be much a hotshot for the time difference saved by flying R to be worthwhile over an F or J ticket.

This is a real back of the envelope calculation but enough to make my point....

Concorde return (at full fare) = £8200 (as Sept 2002)
BA F return (discounted) = £4200 (as today)
Difference = £4000

Time of Concorde journey = 8hrs 10mins (30min check-in + 3hr30min flying time + 5 min immigration. Done twice)
Time of F return = 17hrs 20mins (1hr check-in + avge 7hrs 30mins flying time + 10min immigration)
Difference = 9hrs 10min

Time cost per hour saved = £436/hr

I'm sure a heck of a lot of people's time are worth more than that, and remember that F price is discounted, so the difference between that and full F is even less.

You could argue that in F you have more room to work in comfort etc so that needs to be somehow taken into account...
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necigrad
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:18 am

When the Concorde was taken out of service AF and BA both said they would not cell. VS even made an offer. There's been on again off again research for another supersonic airliner, but as was said before, the next supersonic civilian aircraft will likely be a bizjet. In fact, you could probably call Spaceship one the latest, though it's technically classified as a glider.
 
LeonB1985
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:59 am

Remember also that runway constraints come into the equation. As a private jet, Concorde would only have provided its owner with a somewhat limited selection of airfields to use.
From the construction site that is better-known as London Heathrow Airport
 
jbrusnak
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:03 am

I just read an article the other day about several smaller startups that are working on new supersonic jets. They are focused on the VIP market. They talked about them being small 8-12 person business jets travelling between mach 1.4 and 1.8.

The article specifically compared them to Concorde, noting that they would not travel quite as fast. The goal is to make them relatively cheap ($40M I think was a price they used in the article).

They are also going to be designed with modern materials and shapes to heavily mitigate any sonic booms. The hope is that the newer design combined with the smaller size would enable them to fly over populated areas without restriction.

Personally, I think that is where the future of supersonic travel will be. It just does not make economic sense for 95% of people to pay more to be there faster.

This is a little off topic, but in today's world of E-mail and the Internet, I think better connectivity on planes in that regard will eliminate a lot of need for high speed travel. The reasons for getting somewhere quickly are so you can get more done in less period of time, but if you are connected to your clients and your office you can be productive, so eliminating the travel time is not quite so important.

[Edited 2007-02-02 03:04:22]
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:09 am

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 8):
Many people confuse Concorde. It was a time saving instrument more than anything else, not some uber luxury VIP transport. You don't even have to be much a hotshot for the time difference saved by flying R to be worthwhile over an F or J ticket.

There was some snob appeal especially amongst the New York big money elite.
Yeah they saved time on their business but, many now more opportunity to engage in whatever vices they had. Now, these days it's harder for trysting among the elite.
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Garri767
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:10 am

am i the only one that wouldnt waste the extra 4000 pounds to fly concorde?  duck 


i mean, its either economy for 3 hours 30 mins, or first class for seven hours. if you really enjoy flying like me, which would you choose?



i for one wouldnt consider the concorde a VIP jet.
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NASOCEANA
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:44 am

Quoting LeonB1985 (Reply 10):
Remember also that runway constraints come into the equation. As a private jet, Concorde would only have provided its owner with a somewhat limited selection of airfields to use.

The B747-8I and A380-800 VIP Jets would be somewhat airport restricited!

[Edited 2007-02-02 03:46:00]
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zippyjet
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:54 am

Quoting Garri767 (Reply 13):
i mean, its either economy for 3 hours 30 mins,

I know, the Concorde had the interior space of the older props but, I thought passengers ponying up the big bucks got pheasant under glass, pigs in a blanket, chateaubriand, flan, chocolate and cherry jubilee souflee's?

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Stitch
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
It was never just your regular 'joe'.

I flew her a number of times, on business and pleasure, and I'm a "regular Joe".  Smile

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 15):
I know, the Concorde had the interior space of the older props but, I thought passengers ponying up the big bucks got pheasant under glass, pigs in a blanket, Chateaubriand, flan, chocolate and cherry jubilee souffle's?

It is more like flying F on a CRJ-700 or EMB-190 in terms of seating... Catering was better in the 1990's, but then it was in every class on every carrier back then. And post-9/11 made service ridiculous on at least BA, who had to trash a ton of new metal cutlery (never used and eventually auctioned off) and instead use plastic utensils.  covereyes 
 
albird87
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:27 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
As for British carriers not flying british planes, what aircraft does Britain currently produce for them to fly?

Well lets consider that BAE make the wings for airbus so without them you wouldnt have an aircraft!!
It is shame that the british production stopped and we had to do it 'continental style'!
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:58 pm

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 15):
I know, the Concorde had the interior space of the older props but, I thought passengers ponying up the big bucks got pheasant under glass, pigs in a blanket, chateaubriand, flan, chocolate and cherry jubilee souflee's?

The food was always excellant.............however the best part for me was always the take off..............boy did that throw you into your seat or what!
 
UAEflyer
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:32 am

I knew that Queen Elizabeth II used it as a personal transporter (leased from BA), also french Presidents.
 
Baron52ta
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
As for British carriers not flying british planes, what aircraft does Britain currently produce for them to fly?

Britain doesn't produce anything any more because of economics and greed,it is after all an Island so everything comes at at price so products got stail and new ideas went to other companies.

Britains aircraft industry was sold out from under us by politicians more interested in keeping in with so called allies that they forgot about their own people until it was to late to resolve the problem.
Anything that is made in Britain isn't ours any more so any profits to be had leave the country which therefore means no R & D in the country for future generations of product.
 
CRJonBeez
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:59 am

keep an eye on gulfstream aerospace in the future. they've been working on a supersonic bizjet for a while now. they're doing their best to eliminate the "boom" while still keeping somewhat of a grasp on fuel economy. i always thought the citation x was enough, but apparently not!
 
tommybp251b
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 2):
a passenger who had missed an AF flight CDG-JFK who then dicided to chartered one

I red this story too once. It was a sheik and his family as far as I remember.
Tom from Cologne
 
hb88
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 17):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
"As for British carriers not flying british planes, what aircraft does Britain currently produce for them to fly?"

Well lets consider that BAE make the wings for airbus so without them you wouldnt have an aircraft!!
It is shame that the british production stopped and we had to do it 'continental style'!

Ahem - *Airbus UK* makes the wings for Airbus and makes them in the UK - along with Landing Gear, Fuel Systems and a few other things. BAE Systems has nothing to do with it.

Airbus UK is an Airbus NatCo which is a significant part of the company as a whole (wings being conventionally considered as reasonably key to the performance of an aircraft).
 
B707Stu
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:44 am

Heads of State? Well, I guess my parents were head of my family and they flew it twice, though on discounted tickets.
 
ncelhr
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting Garri767 (Reply 13):
i mean, its either economy for 3 hours 30 mins, or first class for seven hours. if you really enjoy flying like me, which would you choose?

I flew one return trip on Concorde and I'll remember it all my life.
I would pay 4K today to do it again. Although it was a very long time ago, I was truly awed (and still am) by a few things:

- the seats are like Ferrari seats. Firm, just about comfortable. Definitely better than economy seating
- Checking in was a real breeze. Arrive at the airport 30 minutes before flying and everything was done for you whilst you just went to the VIP lounge
- take off was like being in a rocket. The sheer power made you stuck in your seat. Amazing.
- everything went so fast. Check-in, no delay at take off, no delay at arrival, no delay taxiing to the gate, and customs (both US and Europe side) a 5 minute breeze.
- Helicopter to Manhattan (E34th Street Heliport / yes, I flew 1 month after they closed off the PanAm heliport on Pk Ave)

Being at 10:30am on 5th Ave knowing you had woken up at 8:30am in London was another huuuuuge ego-booster, yes, I admit it.

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 1):
The next great hope for hypersonic aviation will be in the biz jet industry.

Dassault is working on a supersonic biz jet. IMHO with all their knowledge they are the most likely to have a supersonic bizjet out soon.
 
bongo
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:13 am

Quoting Garri767 (Reply 13):
i mean, its either economy for 3 hours 30 mins, or first class for seven hours. if you really enjoy flying like me, which would you choose?

To see the Earth´s curvature is/was one of the greatests moments in my whole life...simply priceless.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
vv701
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 17):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
As for British carriers not flying british planes, what aircraft does Britain currently produce for them to fly?

Well lets consider that BAE make the wings for airbus so without them you wouldnt have an aircraft!!

Actually that little known company Airbus UK make the wings although BAE Systems used to have a 20 per cent stake in it. And, of course RR, for example, made the engines for all the initial pre-production 380s. So, as wings plus engines is more than 50 per cent by value, the 380 could be said to be more British than all the rest put together!
 
VEEREF
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:30 am

Isaac the bartender claimed to own one to get the attention of a female passenger on an episode of The Love Boat once. Does that count?
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
mirrodie
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
The Concorde was a VIP jet. 99% of the normal passenger were all Heads of State, major leaders of industry, Movie Stars, Kings, Queen...etc. It was never just your regular 'joe'

Well, for a non-VIP, I guess I did alright. I consider that trip another goal I had to take down.

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/31702

Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 25):
the seats are like Ferrari seats. Firm, just about comfortable. Definitely better than economy seating
- Checking in was a real breeze. Arrive at the airport 30 minutes before flying and everything was done for you whilst you just went to the VIP lounge
- take off was like being in a rocket. The sheer power made you stuck in your seat. Amazing

I own a pair of the seats. I usually liken them to bucket seats on Mustang. But I like the Ferrari anlogy  Wink


The power on takeoff is unlike any regualr powered takeoff. The moment the wheels left the concrete, the engines kept her rumbling all the way up. It was amazing.

I heard ont he radio last week that 2 more companies have started to persue the concept of Supersonic Flight. I would have sworn one of them was Lockheed Aerospace but I don;t recall exactly as it was the day before my son was born and my brain has been whacky from that week.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
NASOCEANA
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:43 am

How long did it take from take off to reach cruise alt?
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jetjeanes
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:59 am

They were available for charters. We had one arrive in Mem. On take off he did a flyby over the runway. But if im not mistaken they were restricted in speed leaveing the us until they were ot over the ocean
i can see for 80 miles
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:28 pm



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3294343.stm

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 29):
I heard ont he radio last week that 2 more companies have started to persue the concept of Supersonic Flight. I would have sworn one of them was Lockheed Aerospace but I don;t recall exactly as it was the day before my son was born and my brain has been whacky from that week.

Some interesting info linked and, best of luck to you, your family and your number one son!
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
GDB
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RE: Concorde As A VIP Jet?

Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:22 pm

OK, some answers/comments!

Altitude, after take off-with reheat for about 100 secs, climb to subsonic cruise (but at Mach 0.95), at 28000ft.
Once overwater, reheats on (though Concorde did not need to do this, it was actually more economical to do so-odd as that might sound), for about 10 mins.
In that time you'll go from 29000 to 47000ft, reheats off, climb up to 58000ft, on a longer LHR-BGI run, 60000ft.

In 1979/80, when there were still some unsold airframes-BAe did propose a VIP interior, but they also investigated a mod for a fast transatlantic mail service when Fed Ex showed some interest at the same time.
The frames were placed with BA, French spare ones to AF.

Concorde was not on call for the UK heads of state/politicians, if they wanted a flight, they chartered one just like charter companies, just like they chartered any other BA type.
Though government ministers were quite often on regular BA services, for example, the then Foreign Secretary Jack Straw shuttling to the UN in the run up to the Iraq war.

Blair used it in 1997, to go to G8 at Denver-stopping at JFK.
In 1998, to visit Clinton at Andrews AFB.
In 2001, the same day BA relaunched the service after the post accident mods, taking G-BOAE to JFK, a few hours later, the PM flew on G-BOAF to Andrews as part of his furious travel schedule in the wake of Sept 11th (the event that really killed Concorde), and Afghanistan military action.

The latter charter, usually costing £750,000, was reduced by BA as a goodwill gesture to £250,000.

The Queen did fly on Concorde a number of times, including back from BGI in 1977, with a VIP modified front cabin on G-BOAB in 1991, as part of a tour of the Southern US, via IAD. The only time to my knowledge, that a Concorde had a VIP interior fit, aside from removing a row of seats to incorporate a table, as in Blair's 1998 charter.

On the JFK run, 85% of pax were business, 15% celeb etc, 5% upgrades, staff on ID tickets, competition winners etc.
Of my 7 flights, 4 were commercial, I only ever spotted Liz Hurely, in November 2002, and that was only at the baggage carousel after landing!

The whole VS Concorde thing was cynical PR from Branson, the CAA, EADS, as well as BA, would never allow it.
BA looked hard at keeping one (non pax, subsonic only), for airshows, but the costs of operating just this, was not so different from maintaining a full airline operation, given the uniqueness of the type, requiring a specialised (and expensive) support network.

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