Airlines' Most Profitable Routes And Loads?

mrgmrg · Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:37 pm

This is probably the airlines' proprietary information but is there any publication where one can find out which are the most profitable routes for any given airline? What about the load factors?

If there isn't any website/publication can Airliners members contribute? Just write about any airline you know.

Preferrably let's not speculate but just write actual known facts/routes.

CO7e7 · Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:52 pm

Quoting Mrgmrg (Thread starter):
can Airliners members contribute?

Well, I know CO's EWR-TLV is a successful route. Their flights are almost "always" full.
They have 2 daily flights on this route (CO84 and CO90)...
I'm not positive about flight 90, it might not be daily.

-Zaki

9VSIO · Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:59 pm

I've heard that SQ makes a fotune from the Singapore - Kuala Lumpur shuttle (source: FA). Everytime I go on that, the load is usually pretty full, and it's served by a 777. At one point, it was cheaper to fly to Hong Kong than to KL, even though KL is only 30 mins away!

I'm also confident that SQ makes a fair amount of cash from the kangaroo route.

7474ever · Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:15 pm

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 1):
I'm not positive about flight 90, it might not be daily.

It is - and it's full too (both flights served by 777's). TLV is a major success for CO.

DL is also doing very well on its route to TLV (777).

As for LY, its most profitable route is HKG.

LAXdude1023 · Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:35 pm

Im almost certain the LAX-SYD has to be one of the most profitable routes for QF.

GB · Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:44 pm

Please mind that a full flight doesn't mean that it is profitable. The world of yield/rev mgmt goes a "bit" beyond this naive theory! These numbers are never published in any listings! It's like writing your PIN on your bank card!

InbarD · Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:06 pm

I pretty sure BA's most profitable route is LHR-JFK.

[Edited 2007-02-04 12:06:59]

sparklehorse12 · Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:11 pm

Yes, QF most profitable route is SYD/LAX. The Australian government is very protective over this route. SQ have made several attempts to get permission to fly this route and all times QF have lobbied government. So much for Geoff Dixon's mantra of competition is good....only when it suits Qantas.

bobnwa · Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:20 am

After reading all the replies to the question of profitable routes ie" JFK-LHR, SYD-LAX, EWR-TLV etc, please read reply 5 again. Only a few people at any airline know that type info and they don't publish it.

ALL of your answers are guesses at best. If they are not guesses, then please give us the exact numbers and source.

b777a340fan · Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting InbarD (Reply 6):
I pretty sure BA's most profitable route is LHR-JFK

I would think so as well. Many airlines have LHR-JFK routes.

UAL's should be amongst the following:
LAX-HKG; LAX-NRT; LAX-SYD
SFO-HKG

AF's should be amongst the following:
CDG-LAX
CDG-JFK
CDG-HKG

I think airlines are realizing that their most profitable routes would be to Asia.

Kevin777 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 9):
AF's should be amongst the following:
CDG-LAX

CDG-LAX... Hmm... doubt that any transatlantic LAX-routes are on the top-three of any airline. JFK/EWR yes, maybe, but LAX, doubtful..

Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 9):
I think airlines are realizing that their most profitable routes would be to Asia.

Why?

Kevin777 Smile

AlitaliaMD11 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:51 am

Considering Air France will have 6 daily flights to JFK come this summer I'd say it was safe to assume that the route is one of their most profitable.

American flights to SDQ and SJU from MIA and JFK must do pretty good also.

FLLspoter · Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:01 am

DL ATL-FLL
ATL-MIA
ATL-JAX
ATL-TPA
ATL-MCO
ATL-LGA
ATL-JFK
DL is super succesful on these routes

JAL777 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:08 am

Flights to/from third world countries are usually an airlines most profitable flights. (e.g. Air France to Africa, AA to South America, etc.)

bobnwa · Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting FLLspoter (Reply 12):
DL ATL-FLL
ATL-MIA
ATL-JAX
ATL-TPA
ATL-MCO
ATL-LGA
ATL-JFK
DL is super succesful on these routes

How do you know that, beyond guessing? Are you one of the few insiders at DL who would know this?

AlitaliaMD11 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:21 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 14):
DL ATL-FLL
ATL-MIA
ATL-JAX
ATL-TPA
ATL-MCO
ATL-LGA
ATL-JFK
DL is super succesful on these routes

How do you know that, beyond guessing? Are you one of the few insiders at DL who would know this?

It has been mentioned on the forums that Delta does very well on their Atlanta-Florida flights including JAX, FLL, TPA, and MCO.

cba · Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:24 am

Don't forget CDG-NRT on AF's list. That flight is usually full, most noticeably in the F and J cabins.

For CO, and this is an educated guess, I'd reckon that their Asia flights from EWR are cash cows. EWR-NRT, HKG, and PEK. I'd imagine that they fill up BusinessFirst pretty well on these long hauls.

bobnwa · Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 15):
It has been mentioned on the forums that Delta does very well on their Atlanta-Florida flights including JAX, FLL, TPA, and MCO.

My question was looking for a source other than this forum or other forums which are hardly verifiable.

AlitaliaMD11 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 17):
My question was looking for a source other than this forum or other forums which are hardly verifiable.

The amount of flights and the large variety of aircraft on the routes could serve as proof.

Flights range from the MD-88 to the 767-300/400 and 777-200.

gemini573 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:47 am

Here's my guess....

BA

LHR-HKG
LHR-JFK

CX

LHR-HKG
DXB-BOM-BKK
HKG-NRT

AF

CDG-NRT
CDG-HKG
CDG-JFK

LH

FRA-PVG
FRA-JFK
FRA-NRT

BigGSFO · Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:47 am

I've read on A.net that AA's most profitable are (in no apparent order):
JFK-EZE
MIA-EZE
MIA-GRU
DFW-ZRH
ORD-PVG
ORD-DEL

Quoting FLLspoter (Reply 12):
DL ATL-FLL
ATL-MIA
ATL-JAX
ATL-TPA
ATL-MCO
ATL-LGA
ATL-JFK
DL is super succesful on these routes

Not quite sure about these. The flights might be full, but the yields are probably low. DL has made a definite shift to international flying to generate higher profits. I would think some of their transocean flights are more profitable than a day's worth of ATL-MCO (which is traditionally a low yield destination). Bear in mind the yield (and profits) dilute if there is substantial connecting traffic.

qutaiba · Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:57 am

I very much doubt you'll find such a publication, but try the IATA and the ATA web sites.

also try the Airline Busines site.

AlitaliaMD11 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:59 am

I also remember reading that Continental does very well on IAH-EZE.

bobnwa · Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 18):
The amount of flights and the large variety of aircraft on the routes could serve as proof.

Flights range from the MD-88 to the 767-300/400 and 777-200.

By your reasoning then, every route with a lot of flights is very profitable? I doubt any flight to LAS from anywhere is profitable, but there sure are a lot of flights!!!

AlitaliaMD11 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23):
By your reasoning then, every route with a lot of flights is very profitable? I doubt any flight to LAS from anywhere is profitable, but there sure are a lot of flights!!!

I was not implying that because of the number of flights but because of the amount of aircraft that have a lot of capacity like the 767-300 and 767-400.

However I am also know Delta expert.

I would not be surprised if some of their European flights from JFK and ATL do better.

steeler83 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:14 am

What are US' most profitable routes, besides the fact that they're all out of PHL likely? PHL-FRA? LGW?

bobnwa · Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 24):
I was not implying that because of the number of flights but because of the amount of aircraft that have a lot of capacity like the 767-300 and 767-400.

So if any route has a lot of aircraft with a lot of capacity, it is profitable? What is the logic in that?

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 24):
However I am also know Delta expert.

Are you saying your no Delta expert or you know a Delta expert.

Most routes to leisure destinations ie: Florida, Hawaii, Las Vegas are not money makers as they have low fares but lots of flights with a lot of capacity.

Again very few people at any airline have this info, and they are not posting it on a forum.

dc9northwest · Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:28 am

What I read in an article:

DL's most profitable routes are ATL-CPH, JFK-BUD, JFK-SNN-DUB, ATH-ATL, VCE-ATL and South American Routes

Source: Frank Jahangir, Staff Vice President Sales and Affairs Europe, Middle East and Africa, quoted in a Romanian online newspaper.
I have no way of confirming these.

AlitaliaMD11 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 26):
So if any route has a lot of aircraft with a lot of capacity, it is profitable? What is the logic in that?

Well if an aircraft has a lot of capacity and it is full each flight then that must mean something.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 26):
Are you saying your no Delta expert or you know a Delta expert.

I am saying that I myself am no Delta expert.

goldorak · Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:34 am

Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 9):
AF's should be amongst the following:
CDG-LAX
CDG-JFK
CDG-HKG

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 10):
CDG-LAX... Hmm... doubt that any transatlantic LAX-routes are on the top-three of any airline. JFK/EWR yes, maybe, but LAX, doubtful..

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 11):
Considering Air France will have 6 daily flights to JFK come this summer I'd say it was safe to assume that the route is one of their most profitable

Quoting Cba (Reply 16):
Don't forget CDG-NRT on AF's list. That flight is usually full, most noticeably in the F and J cabins.

Quoting Gemini573 (Reply 19):
AF

CDG-NRT
CDG-HKG
CDG-JFK

I don't know for the entire AF network, but specifically for north America network, CDG-IAD and CDG-IAH seems to be the most profitable AF routes according to a previous thread on A.net a few weks ago

TPAnx · Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting FLLspoter (Reply 12):

ATL-TPA[/quote]

I've heard this too--and also seen it debunked on this very forum..
TPAnx

dairy · Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:47 am

For LH I've heard:

FRA-NRT
FRA-SIN
FRA-LAX

cedarjet · Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:56 am

The answer is generally, wherever an airline have a monopoly. So forget LHR-JFK or Florida to anywhere. Come on. With every crappy little LCC and every Chapter 11 legacy airline flying to Orlando, how are Delta making money? They've got market share, sure. But flying hicks from the Red States to Disneyworld is no-one's idea of a passport to fast cash. Look at business routes such as Austin to San Jose (AA have it to themselves, it's called the Nerd Bird), or monopoly destinations such as some of BA's service to Africa. I know BA's most lucrative route used to be London to Lagos, since diminished by Virgin Atlantic coming in, although still a cash cow. London to Tokyo isn't bad. I doubt CO's flights to Tel Aviv are all that hot. Profitable, yes, but a lot of it is VFR (Visiting Friends + Relatives). VFR is shorthand for "we fill the planes every day but we're barely making five bucks on each ticket" - see also Philippines to LA, Olympic to Australia (in the good old days) and Toronto. In fact Philippines accidentally issued some confidential numbers in the 80s, the load factor on their MNL-HNL-LAX service was 100%, but guess what the breakeven l/f was? 135%. Ouch.

jbmitt · Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting JAL777 (Reply 13):
Flights to/from third world countries are usually an airlines most profitable flights. (e.g. Air France to Africa, AA to South America, etc.)

Among geographers, and political scientists ie) academia, Third World is not considered the appropriate term. Instead, proper terminology would be peripheral nations/states or LDC's (Lesser Developed Countries).

Africa has many more developed/developing countries. I would consider South Africa, Ghana, Egypt, Morocco, Senegal, Nigeria to an extent, to be among the few.

South America is the same, Brazil and Argentina have the potential to be very powerful states.

I agree with your logic that there is money to made on the routes, due to limited service and/or competition, I just wanted to clarify.

daron4000 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 32):
The answer is generally, wherever an airline have a monopoly. So forget LHR-JFK or Florida to anywhere. Come on. With every crappy little LCC and every Chapter 11 legacy airline flying to Orlando, how are Delta making money? They've got market share, sure. But flying hicks from the Red States to Disneyworld is no-one's idea of a passport to fast cash. Look at business routes such as Austin to San Jose (AA have it to themselves, it's called the Nerd Bird), or monopoly destinations such as some of BA's service to Africa. I know BA's most lucrative route used to be London to Lagos, since diminished by Virgin Atlantic coming in, although still a cash cow. London to Tokyo isn't bad. I doubt CO's flights to Tel Aviv are all that hot. Profitable, yes, but a lot of it is VFR (Visiting Friends + Relatives). VFR is shorthand for "we fill the planes every day but we're barely making five bucks on each ticket" - see also Philippines to LA, Olympic to Australia (in the good old days) and Toronto. In fact Philippines accidentally issued some confidential numbers in the 80s, the load factor on their MNL-HNL-LAX service was 100%, but guess what the breakeven l/f was? 135%. Ouch.

At least there is one accurate statement on this ridiculous board (not that the topic is bad but some people have suggested that an airline's most profitable route is one they don't even fly anymore like UA LAX-HKG- News flash: that was cut because it was losing too much money to CX!) However, you are right in that UA's most profitable routes are their monopoly ones, like any of the four to China and ORD-HKG

pizzaandplanes · Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:59 am

Many times an airlines most profitable route is not its signature route. If you ever watched the special on tv a while back about a week in American Airlines you would've noticed that AA made $300 on JFK-LAX and $2,000 on DFW-BDL. It is mostly really about supply and demand I think. Therefore, on flights from the New York area to Los Angeles you have so much supply and sometimes not enough demand to fill the seats. DFW-BDL you have such little supply and a lot of demand. Just thought I'd give my 2 cents.

UA772IAD · Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 9):
AF's should be amongst the following:

What about CDG-YUL? It will be the first to get an A380.

I think CDG-IAD was another very profitable route for AF.

miller22 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:37 am

For domestic US, you can look at a routes overall revenues in pretty map form at:

http://paxdata.airlineempires.net

goldorak · Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 36):
I think CDG-IAD was another very profitable route for AF

see reply #29

MAH4546 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:44 am

American's most profitable route is commonly belived to be Miami-Buenos Aires. Their most profitable Europe routes, in 2005, were Dallas-Zurich, Miami-London, and Chicago-Manchester.

tope98 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:47 am

Im sure CCS-SJU its a great yield route. An hour and a half flight for over 945 USS, and its pretty full most of the time.

Saludos.

klwright69 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:51 am

For CO I would think it would be EWR-IAH and IAH-LAX.

David_itl · Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):
Chicago-Manchester

If BD were to give up MAN-ORD (and the rest of their long-haul programme), what's the likelihood of either AA going double daily or upgrading to 777 or UA stepping into the breach?

Avianca · Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting Tope98 (Reply 40):
Im sure CCS-SJU its a great yield route. An hour and a half flight for over 945 USS, and its pretty full most of the time.

Saludos.

have to agree AA has sometimes promoting fares, still over 500 USD....

but on the other side I noticed that AA tends to route lower-yield passengers from CCS to places like BOS, NYC etc.... via the SJU flight... with this passengers the yield on the route should go down...

also money maker should be CCS-PTY (CM) CCS-SJO (LR) CCS-LIM (TA) fares for all routes are very high, around 800 USD for the cheapest round-tickets... on the other hand again all airlines are routing lower-yield conecting passengers via the flights...

cle757 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:16 am

Continental's most profitable is IAH-LGW.

flyingchoirboy · Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:54 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 3):
As for LY, its most profitable route is HKG.

That surprises me! I think I once read that El Al makes 50% of their revenue from TLV-JFK and EWR. I would think these would be their most profitable routes, but I don't doubt that HKG might be more profitable.

gemini573 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:37 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 3):
As for LY, its most profitable route is HKG.

I'm not surprised by that. LY wouldn't increase the frequency if there weren't any money to be made on this route.

A friend of mine who worked for LY in HKG told me they make a ton in cargo on this route. I was also surprised to hear that many South Koreans take this route to go on religious pilgrimages.

Glad to see LY doing well on this route.

United Airline · Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:13 am

SQ: SFO-HKG-SIN, SYD-SIN, LHR-SIN, JFK-FRA-SIN

UA: ORD-HKG, SFO-HKG, SFO-NRT, LAX-SYD

CX: NRT-HKG, TPE-HKG, LHR-HKG, YVR-HKG

Just my two cents

MAH4546 · Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:17 am

Quoting David_itl (Reply 42):
If BD were to give up MAN-ORD (and the rest of their long-haul programme), what's the likelihood of either AA going double daily or upgrading to 777 or UA stepping into the breach?

IMO, pretty unlikely. The route makes money as is because the 2-class 763 and one-daily frequency is the right mix to serve the market. Add a second flight or a larger plane, and yields will go anywhere but up. Same with Miami-London. They've had a second daily in the past (the second daily runs only SaSu now), but it just really hurt premium class yields.

worldtraveler · Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:55 am

On a profit margin (rather than a profit per flight basis), almost all of any US airlines' most profitable flights are LGA to/from their hubs.

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