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LAXDESI
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Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:31 am

Boeing says India will need 856 aircraft worth $72.6 billion in 20 years.
http://www.dailyindia.com/show/111869.php/

Quotes:
India will need 856 aircraft worth $72.6 billion in the next 20 years, the Seattle-based Boeing said Wednesday, even as it committed an investment of $2 billion in the country in various areas of civil aviation.

Boeing officials said thanks to the impressive orders worth $19.7 billion placed by Indian aviation companies in 2005 and 2006, the country was among the top five markets for the group.

Keskar said Boeing was also bullish on India emerging as a major market for cargo planes, but said there was no immediate forecast available for this segment of commercial aviation. So was the case with business jets, he said.

Giving a break-up of the types of aircraft India will need, the Boeing official said 676 of these worth $44.29 billion would be for single-aisle products, followed by 120 twin-aisle types worth $25.41 billion.
 
LAXDESI
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:50 am

Airbus forecast for India.
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1170720734.html

Quotes:
Airbus expects demand for aircraft to grow quickly in India, led by travel as well as freight traffic, and the European company said it will look to source more materials, design and engineering services from the country.

The plane maker, part of EADS, expects Indian firms to place orders for 1,100 passenger and freighter aircraft valued at about USD$105 billion over 20 years.

It was also looking at more cooperation with Indian firms in engineering, design and manufacturing, and may identify modern materials suppliers, Sharma said. State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics makes doors for the A320 planes, and EADS said last year it would extend its cooperation with HAL to other areas.
 
mtsubshe
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:17 am

India,is a place with big competition on airlines, with a lot of low cost carriers started, still the price dont make that diffreence, with lot of people travelling inside india, one of the main sector which is making money is between bombay and delhi, and to bangalore, as boeing said , i dont think india needs 856 aircrafts to fill up their needs, other thing is most people who depends on Air India and Indian Airlines are usually the people who work in the middle east,and the people from Europe ,USA,and Canada, who travels to india, prefer foreign airlines. as personally, i do prefer foreign airlines than Air India, .... .
 
mtsubshe
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:46 am

Indian Airforce needs some new aircrafts to ferry the President, Prime Minister and other ministers, when they travel in and out of India, now they use Air India,
 
Aviator27
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:20 am

Taking the last two years growth numbers and using them to project out to 20 years is bad math no matter what business you are in. Its like the recent real estate boom we had in the USA. Everyone thought their $150,000 house would be worth $1 million in five years because of 30% price increase they enjoyed in 2004 and 2005. Obviously things have turned out much different.

I have always said the fundamentals in India are very good. However, there are some serious problems everyone acknowleges but still overlook. We all know about the infrastructure problem. However, has anyone applied this constraint to their growth forecast? What about the skill shortage? You don't grow airline pilots on trees like you can MSCE's.

Some people are asking the tough questions but still aren't getting the answers. Look at Gopinath's response to the overcapacity issue. He said 70% of the seats are being filled. Sure that looks good, however, he failed to mention at what price those seats are being sold for.

When I left India three months ago, all but four non-metro airports were out of overnight parking spots. That means every major airport was already booked solid. Where will all these new airplanes go?

These airlines cannot rely on sale-leaseback agreements. This is a short term cash infusion deal. It works because the airlines booked orders when prices were around $35 million for an A320. They turn around and sell that airplane for $45 million at today's prices and book a fast $10 million profit. However, now they have to lease the airplanes back from the leasing company. Invariably, their leasing costs doubled overnight. Of course that $10 million profit will last them some months. Once that cash is gone, the airline has to go knocking on another door.
 
LAXDESI
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 4):
Taking the last two years growth numbers and using them to project out to 20 years is bad math no matter what business you are in.

Agree. However, historical aviation growth for a developing country is 1.3x its GDP growth. It is possible that Indian GDP will grow at an annual rate of 8% over the next twenty years, in which case aviation growth should be around 10%/year. Indian passenger numbers should reach 500 million/year in twenty years from the current base of 60 million(factor of eight with growth at 10% over 20 years).

I am hopeful that infrastructure improvement will keep up with the expected growth in demand.
 
LAXDESI
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:40 am

AI exploring business class only flights to ME/SE, and AI Express flights to USA/Europe.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes...f__SE_Asia/articleshow/1578033.cms

Having expanded its low-cost network to cover new destinations, Air India plans to score another first in Indian aviation: Exclusive 'business class only' flights to the Gulf and southeast Asia. Among the likely destinations that the state-owned carrier plans to fly includes Dubai, Singapore and Hong Kong. A detailed plan for the 'business class only' service --- aimed at the creamy layer --- is likely to be finalised after merger of Air India with Indian later this year.

The national carrier is likely to deploy B737-800 aircraft for the 'executive class' flights, reconfiguring them with 50 or 60 seats. Apart from being spacious, the 'executive class' flights would provide premium facilities like lounge on board.

Air India may also look at starting budget flights on long-haul routes connecting the US and Europe, the official said.
 
jaysit
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:27 am

Btw, has Air India begun the "upgradation" (another ridiculous GOI babu term) of its owned 744s and trashy A310s? Or is it again, just a whole lot of big talk by the airline?

Besides, how old are AI's A310s? Aren't they coming up on close to 20 years at least? And how much more life does AI expect to squeeze out of these flying jhopdis in the sky?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Nimish
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 7):
Btw, has Air India begun the "upgradation" (another ridiculous GOI babu term) of its owned 744s and trashy A310s? Or is it again, just a whole lot of big talk by the airline?

I don't know for sure, but I would hope not - at least not until they receive a few of the new a/c to cover for the shortfall in their fleet.
Incredible India!
 
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sammyk
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:34 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 7):
Besides, how old are AI's A310s? Aren't they coming up on close to 20 years at least? And how much more life does AI expect to squeeze out of these flying jhopdis in the sky?

They're earmarked for freighter conversion. I believe two are already being converted. Same thing is planned for the two 743s and Alliance's 732s.
 
gamps
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:44 pm

Not sure if someone has already posted this, but today's SJ Mercury News Business section has an article on soaring demand for direct flight between SF Bay Area and Bangalore.

Article also covers Lufthansa, SFO-FRA-BLR and calls that ops "The Bangalore Express"

Link: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/16641397.htm

Some excerpts from the above article:

Quote:

In comparison, the Bangalore Express -- Flight 455, San Francisco to Frankfurt, and Flight 754, Frankfurt to Bangalore -- is a mere 21-and-a-half-hour jaunt, including a two-hour-or-less layover. For business travelers making the trip on a regular basis, avoiding a camp-out in Singapore's mall-like Changi Airport is worth the pricier Lufthansa ticket. A business-class ticket on the Bangalore Express can be about $2,000 more than a similar seat on Singapore Airlines's San Francisco-Bangalore flight; Lufthansa's coach seats can cost several hundred dollars more.

The Lufthansa flight won the title Bangalore Express because it was the first to cash in on the Silicon Valley-Bangalore tech connection with the most direct route. And it remains the most popular among many in the tech industry. There are, though, new ways to get from the valley to Bangalore. Lufthansa partner United Airlines operates a San Francisco-Frankfurt flight at a similar time, connecting to Lufthansa's Frankfurt-to-Bangalore flight. And British Airways recently began offering daily service out of San Francisco to Bangalore with a three-hour layover in London.

The Bangalore Express has an 80-seat business-class section, as well as 16 first-class seats. ''It's got the heavy hitters on board,'' observed Steve Hendrickson, a consultant with Sabre Airline Solutions, a consulting firm.

''I've seen people being interviewed for jobs on the plane,'' said Ramesh Dimba, a manager at Sunnyvale data management company Network Appliance. He figures 80 percent of the passengers on board the Bangalore Express are tech professionals, and spends a lot of his flight time making new contacts and trading industry gossip. Dimba also likes to do a little, uh, data mining. He covers his company badge in hopes of catching competitors off guard.

 
himmat01
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting Sammyk (Reply 9):
They're earmarked for freighter conversion. I believe two are already being converted. Same thing is planned for the two 743s and Alliance's 732s.

VT-EQS and VT-EQT are in Germany for freighter conversion. These were delivered in 1990. They can go on for another 5-6 years as freigters. I am a bit surprised that the later A310s are being converted into freighters and not the initial 1986-87 batch.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
tayaramecanici
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:59 pm

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 4):
When I left India three months ago, all but four non-metro airports were out of overnight parking spots. That means every major airport was already booked solid. Where will all these new airplanes go?

Over a dozen non-metro airports are increasing their parking slots i.e Mangalore, Goa, Nagpur, Amritsar, Jaipur, vizag, Bhubaneshwar etc. These stations attract sizeable traffic, Bhubaneshwar and Vizag will witness heavy growth in traffic this year as the 3 major steel/mining works start rolling i.e TATA, LNM & POSCO, not to mention Vedantas $1b University. Mangalore has a huge gulf based NRI population and is witnessing multiple P2P to the gulf. Additionally come early 2008 HYD and BLR greenfield airports will come online. Both have very ambitious plans and have a large catchment of travellers.

One of the major problems with manpower was inadequate flying schools, of which there are dozens mushrooming within India, apart from the many western schools that are advt tailor made CPL as per DGCA requirements. Its the same with Engineers.

There will be cyclical hiccups in the next couple of years but the growth is undoubtedly sustainable.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
 
initref
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:28 pm

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 12):

....
...
There will be cyclical hiccups in the next couple of years but the growth is undoubtedly sustainable.

I share your optimism about the long-term, but not short/medium.

The problem with pilot shortages is not inadequate flying schools - but not enough CFIs. Can you show me a competent CFI instructing at a flight school in India? No - because he/she is already flying for Jet/IT etc. The entire ecosystem is stretched, from training, to ATC, to M/X to gates etc.

The secondary airports will help - but frankly this is just buying a few months of parking bays. even HYD/BLR is too little in the national picture. Take Coimbatore - fast becoming a mini-BLR with tech and offshoring starting up in hurry. The runway is being extended for B777/A330 style aircraft and little else is being done at the airport.

If fuel prices go up - the LCCs are in big trouble when they spend 30min-60min in holds over the major metros, and then the inevitable ground/taxi delays.

Major investment is needed and anybody who thinks that Indians will "adjust" is kidding themselves. In the medium-term there are bound to be airline failures exacerbated by lack of infrastructure.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 11):
I am a bit surprised that the later A310s are being converted into freighters and not the initial 1986-87 batch.

The later 310's were acquired in 1990-92 period....AI will probably retain those as freighters and sell off the older ones.....a wise thing to do, in my opinion.... smile 
 
tonyban
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:47 am

Quoting Gamps (Reply 10):
Not sure if someone has already posted this, but today's SJ Mercury News Business section

Gamps...thanks for mentioning this....actually that article was sprawled on the very front page.

The Bangalore Express has turned out to be lucrative for Lufthansa.
 
karan69
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 7):
Btw, has Air India begun the "upgradation" (another ridiculous GOI babu term) of its owned 744s and trashy A310s? Or is it again, just a whole lot of big talk by the airline?

I remember aeeing one AI 744 in the hangars for over a month undergoing the refurbishment, it is flying now,so i assume it has been fitted with AVOD do not remember the registration--i think Vivek can help me out on it.

Also i rember that atleast 2 A310s are refurbished--As of Dec 06.

Karan
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting Mtsubshe (Reply 3):
Indian Airforce needs some new aircrafts to ferry the President, Prime Minister and other ministers, when they travel in and out of India, now they use Air India

The Idea would be great based on AF1 style.But what about Underutilisation.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
WestWing
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:44 am

If any of (IT, AI, 9W) were to start non-stop flights between BLR and the bay area, why wouldn't they fly to SJC instead of SFO ? Wouldn't SJC be more convenient for passenger demographic? SJC has an 11000 ft runway which ought to be adequate. Is it because of better maintenance choices at SFO? Or better connections at SFO, perhaps?

[Edited 2007-02-08 17:47:38]
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
tayaramecanici
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting InitRef (Reply 13):
The secondary airports will help - but frankly this is just buying a few months of parking bays. even HYD/BLR is too little in the national picture. Take Coimbatore - fast becoming a mini-BLR with tech and offshoring starting up in hurry. The runway is being extended for B777/A330 style aircraft and little else is being done at the airport.

If fuel prices go up - the LCCs are in big trouble when they spend 30min-60min in holds over the major metros, and then the inevitable ground/taxi delays.

I don't deny the fact about the infrastructure and manpower constraints, fortunately in the case of India it has not come to a stage of grinding halt as is evident in ME i.e. Emirates. The A380 fiasco was a god sent relief for Dubai inc failing which they wouldn't have known where and how to operate their extensive fleet. They have built a 8Hangar Mx station which was meant to be fully operational Aug06 and is only partly in use - 3 hangars due to manpower shortages.
Coimbatore is close to my heart as i had invested there in land in 2005 forecasting this scenario (i am a mumbaikar never been or seen coimbatore before), i am glad they are investing only in the runway at the moment, keep the cost down. Here in UK the airport i am based at has the 2nd largest EU LCC HQ here and this apt worked out of portacabins and tinsheds for terminals (Now used by a 'J' class only schd operator) for the last 7yrs, the LCC had a bouncy castle for a hangar which they managed to use for nearly 8yrs whereas the original approval from CAA was for a year. I don't see why it should be any diff in the case of India. Why should we have glass and steel excesses like in Nanajing or Denver hoping for some bird to fly in.
presently the biggest impediment in the path of aviation growth as far as India is concerned is the the Duo of AI / IA. I saw 3 x B738, 1 xA310 and 1XB743 lying unattended for 3 days over the 26th Jan holidays in BOM hangars. The duo need to be pvt or quarrantied as they tackle plague. Their aircrafts are tatty, Mx is absolutely shoddy and present staff are rude and obstinate however they have all the cream routes and are now being courted sinisterely by the alliances for obvious reasons.
Opening up the Gulf and SE to pvt airlines Carte blanch will see the regions grow faster than the sick metros easing the pressures on their infrastructure. South of Ahmedabad there are over 20 cities that have the potential for over 50 intl city pairs within 3hrs flt-time for atleast 1 daily ops. This will provide a reduction in 25% of the present usage at the Metros.

Quoting InitRef (Reply 13):
The problem with pilot shortages is not inadequate flying schools - but not enough CFIs. Can you show me a competent CFI instructing at a flight school in India?

I had a go at flying in the late 80's in India. Unfortunately couldn't omplete it due to the death of the Mx engineer which resulted in the school closing. The inst't was good but mostly drunk and i believe strongly flying is like cycling, swimming or driving you either have it in you or you don't, its a natural instinct with a good understanding for the bird. The mushrooming of schools make the vocation more affordable for the masses leading to a larger pool being created, just like the Aptechs and NIITs did for ITES industry.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
 
karan69
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:56 am

For those who want to know what the AI new colour scheme signifies.

From the marketing report:

The cream color and a deeper red complement convey the
warmth and hospitality that Air India is known for - with the gold
trimmings emphasising a premium product and service. The dynamic, bold
and gold coloured Centaur on its tail and engines whilst displaying
vitality -


Full post on this-- AIC 777LR First Flight Today! (by PEET7G Feb 6 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Karan
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 20):
The cream color and a deeper red complement convey the
warmth and hospitality that Air India is known for - with the gold
trimmings emphasising a premium product and service. The dynamic, bold
and gold coloured Centaur on its tail and engines whilst displaying
vitality -

Oh my god...wait till Jaysit reads this!!  eek 
 
jaysit
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 20):
The dynamic, bold
and gold coloured Centaur on its tail and engines whilst displaying
vitality -

The cream and red and gold are beautiful - much like a gorgeous Kanjeevaram cream colored saree with a red and gold border.

Let's hope that these colors are used in the inflight uniforms and interiors. The last time AI's FA uniforms looked great was when the Boeing 747-200s were first introduced. Since then they look like someone ran to Crawford Market in Mumbai and bought the cheapest junk they could find from a footpath vendor. And the less said about the polyester suits the male FAs wear the better. With those clip-on cheap black polyester ties to boot. Uggggh.

Unfortunately, the Centaur on the tail is anything but dynamic and bold. The poor thing looks like he's hiding, or that someone's lopped of his wings inflight.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
initref
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 19):
I don't see why it should be any diff in the case of India. Why should we have glass and steel excesses like in Nanajing or Denver hoping for some bird to fly in.

Agreed 100% - my concern re: infrastructure is about efficiency and safety - both of which are getting compromised in Indian aviation right now. The efficiency stuff is well discussed here and elsewhere - like the ATC delays, parking space, etc.. but like just last weekend when a DN 320 driver tells me that they will never put their family on a DN ATR under any circumstance (wish it were just one isolated conversation)

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 19):

Coimbatore is close to my heart as i had invested there in land in 2005 forecasting this scenario (i am a mumbaikar never been or seen coimbatore before)

Any other real estate tips - I'd like to get in now...  Smile
 
sshank
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:10 am

As expected, SQ will add a second daily flight to MAA starting at 3x this summer and going daily in winter as the new bilateral frequencies become available.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...02/09/stories/2007020902830700.htm
Singapore Airlines hopes to augment the number of flights to and from Indian destinations. To begin with, the airline will introduce a second daily flight --- on a staggered basis --- between Chennai and Singapore during the second half of the current calendar year.
 
aarbee
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:58 am

Greetings! Recently joined a.net after hanging around here for a long time.

Firstly, LAXDESI, Great Job and Congratulations on these Indian Aviation thread.

Praful Patel released this report during Aero India. Link from Indian Express.
Indian carriers to get 480 aircraft

R B
Love the AIXes
 
Aviator27
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting Aarbee (Reply 25):
Praful Patel released this report during Aero India. Link from Indian Express.

I have always been curious as to the amount of commercial jet airplanes in India. I am talking about Boeings, Airbus', and similar. Anyone care to start doing the math. The article said 310, but I believe that number is perhaps a bit high.

Air India - ?
Indian Airlines - 35
Alliance Air - 12
Jet Airways - ?
Air Sahara - ?
Spicejet - ?
Air Deccan - ?
Kingfisher - 14
Go Air - 7
Indigo - 4
Paramount - 4

The numbers I have are approximations, please feel free to update them. I also believe around 15 A320's from Indian Airlines are grounded but I still included them in the total. I apologize if I have left anyone off the list.
 
jaysit
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:20 am

Air India - 35
Indian Airlines - 57
Alliance - 11
Jet Airways - 58
Deccan - 40
Sahara - 26
Kingfisher - 22
Indigo - 6
GoAir - 7
SpiceJet - 9
Paramount - 5

That makes about 274 +/-10 aircraft in 2007. Not that much for a country India's size when you think about it, but a big jump from 10 years ago.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
LAXDESI
Topic Author
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting Aarbee (Reply 25):
Greetings! Recently joined a.net after hanging around here for a long time.

A warm welcome.
 
LAXDESI
Topic Author
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 26):
have always been curious as to the amount of commercial jet airplanes in India. I am talking about Boeings, Airbus', and similar. Anyone care to start doing the math. The article said 310, but I believe that number is perhaps a bit high.

The article also states 480 aircrafts will be delivered by 2012. Assuming 50 of the current 310 aircrafts will be retired, it leaves 740 aircrafts at the end of 2012--a growth of 140% in aircrafts and total annual passenger numbers at 150 million.
 
SLCNate
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting Sshank (Reply 24):
As expected, SQ will add a second daily flight to MAA starting at 3x this summer and going daily in winter as the new bilateral frequencies become available.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...02/09/stories/2007020902830700.htm
Singapore Airlines hopes to augment the number of flights to and from Indian destinations. To begin with, the airline will introduce a second daily flight --- on a staggered basis --- between Chennai and Singapore during the second half of the current calendar year.

A great news and hope the timings are such that the transit time at Changi from US / Aussie flights are greatly reduced.
 
Nimish
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting SLCNate (Reply 30):
A great news and hope the timings are such that the transit time at Changi from US / Aussie flights are greatly reduced.

And it might turn out to be faster to fly via MAA on the return from the US west coast to BLR! Currently there's an 8 hour layover, if that can be reduced by even 2 hours, I see some of the BLR traffic diverting to SFO/LAX-SIN-MAA-BLR on the return.
Incredible India!
 
LAXDESI
Topic Author
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 31):
And it might turn out to be faster to fly via MAA on the return from the US west coast to BLR! Currently there's an 8 hour layover, if that can be reduced by even 2 hours, I see some of the BLR traffic diverting to SFO/LAX-SIN-MAA-BLR on the return.

Isn't SQ adding more frequency to BLR starting winter 2007 given the higher allotment under the revised bilateral?
 
LAXDESI
Topic Author
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:10 pm

Finnair gets in ahead of the Indian airspace rush.
http://www.impactpub.com.au/micebtn/...content&task=view&id=684&Itemid=65

Quotes:
Finnair chief has warned of future difficulties in securing new arrival and departure slots at Indian airports. Finnair's deputy chief executive officer responsible for scheduled passenger traffic Henrik Arle said this was why the carrier was adding to its Indian scheduled traffic now - to ensure its presence in such fast-growing markets.

"It will be extremely hard - if not impossible - for airlines to secure new arrival and departure slots at Indian airports in the coming years," said Arle.

From mid-May, the airline will fly daily from Helsinki to the Indian capital of Delhi, which it now services three times weekly. And from June, the airline will launch a new Indian route with flights to Mumbai, which will be served non-stop from Finnish capital five days a week.

This will mean an increase from three to 12 in the number of weekly services to India.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 26):
I have always been curious as to the amount of commercial jet airplanes in India. I am talking about Boeings, Airbus', and similar. Anyone care to start doing the math

Dont forget the Entire list as on Jan 2007:-
Scheduled Operators:-
Air India Ltd....................38
Air India Charters Ltd........09
Indian Airlines..................59
Airline Allied Services Ltd...15
Jet Airways.....................59
Sahara Airlines.................28
Air Deccan......................41
Kingfisher Airlines............. 23
SpiceJet.........................10
Paramount.......................05
Blue Dart.........................07
GoAir..............................07
Indigo.............................06
Indus..............................01
TOTAL......308

Unscheduled Operators:-
TOTAL......181

Blue Dart & First Flight Are Freighter Aircraft.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
aarbee
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 28):
A warm welcome.

Thank you.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 29):
Assuming 50 of the current 310 aircrafts will be retired

For a minute I was shocked thinking that there are 50 A-310's in India. After reading it carefully and looking at Mel's total, I assume you are not talking about just A-310.
 Smile
Love the AIXes
 
Aviator27
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:09 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:31 am

Thanks everyone for providing excellent numbers to satisfy my curiosity. There is no way Indian has 59 airframes up and flying. We are looking at 150% growth in 5 years. Can we say build? Infrastructure stocks anyone?
 
LAXDESI
Topic Author
Posts: 2775
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 36):
Thanks everyone for providing excellent numbers to satisfy my curiosity. There is no way Indian has 59 airframes up and flying. We are looking at 150% growth in 5 years. Can we say build? Infrastructure stocks anyone?

Unfortunately it is not possible for foreigners to invest in Indian stocks directly. One can buy ADRs in US but the offerings are limited, and there are funds which invest in the broader Indian market.

There are different rules for foreigners with Indian ancestry.
 
karan69
Posts: 2729
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:57 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:11 am

Hey guys AI have Wet Leased another A310 aircraft from a Turkish carrier, which has arrived late yesterday, will keep yoll updated as i get more info.

Himmat see you at BLR tom morning.

Karan
 
Nimish
Posts: 2969
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 38):
Hey guys AI have Wet Leased another A310 aircraft from a Turkish carrier, which has arrived late yesterday, will keep yoll updated as i get more info.

Excellent progress from AI lately - including this hypothetical 757 doing the AMD-KWI sector!
Incredible India!
 
WestWing
Posts: 1139
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:01 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting Nimish (Reply 39):
hypothetical 757

At the Kuwait Airport Departures right now, they show a flight number AIC 860 scheduled for departure at 23:25 local and they say it is a 757 ... more to mystery that Aarbee originally highlighted.

Link: http://www.kuwait-airport.com.kw/flight/Departure.aspx
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
aarbee
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:20 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting WestWing (Reply 40):
At the Kuwait Airport Departures right now, they show a flight number AIC 860 scheduled for departure at 23:25 local and they say it is a 757 ... more to mystery that Aarbee originally highlighted.

If this is indeed true then:
o 1st passenger 757 in India for Indian carrier and also on domestic sector
o AI is utilizing the all the current Boeing aircrafts (737,747,757,767,777)

Wow!
Love the AIXes
 
Aviator27
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:09 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 37):
There are different rules for foreigners with Indian ancestry.

I know all the rules and I actually fall into this category. I am just not in the mood to go through all the red, blue, and green tape to make it official. Then again that beautiful KFA flight attendant could always marry me and make it a moot point!
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:59 am

Air India to launch all-economy class, 10 weekly flights to Kuwait

Quote:
Air India has taken one Boeing 757-200 aircraft on wet lease from a Turkey-based company to operate 10 weekly all economy class flights between India and Kuwait.

Official sources told Business Line that the leased Boeing 757 aircraft would be deployed to operate two flights a week on the Kochi-Chennai-Kuwait sector and one weekly flight each on the Kuwait-Kozhikode and Kozhikode-Kochi-Kuwait sectors. A wet lease involves taking an aircraft on lease with the cockpit crew.

In addition, the aircraft would also be deployed to operate three weekly flights each on the Mumbai-Kuwait and three weekly flights on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad-Kuwait sectors.
...
 
mk777
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:48 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:49 am

Wow, B752 in AI colours, now that would be nice to see. C'mon someone in KWI or AMD or BOM take pictures when this plane starts service.  Smile

Looks like AI desperately need their 777s and maybe something smaller for the middle east market and the far east... Smile
come fly with me
 
WestWing
Posts: 1139
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:01 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:58 am

AI 860 scheduled to depart KWI at 23:25 departed at 00:57 (according to the KWI airport website).
Ought to be in BOM at around 09:30 on Sat for any spotters (of course it may not be in AI livery yet).
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
kiramakora
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:00 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 34):
Dont forget the Entire list as on Jan 2007:-
Scheduled Operators:-
Air India Ltd....................38
Air India Charters Ltd........09
Indian Airlines..................59
Airline Allied Services Ltd...15
Jet Airways.....................59
Sahara Airlines.................28
Air Deccan......................41
Kingfisher Airlines............. 23
SpiceJet.........................10
Paramount.......................05
Blue Dart.........................07
GoAir..............................07
Indigo.............................06
Indus..............................01
TOTAL......308

Unscheduled Operators:-
TOTAL......181

Blue Dart & First Flight Are Freighter Aircraft.

regds
MEL

Where does Jagson fit in?
 
manny
Posts: 563
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 43):
Air India has taken one Boeing 757-200 aircraft on wet lease from a Turkey-based company to operate 10 weekly all economy class flights between India and Kuwait.

As an aviation enthusiast, I am glad to hear that AI has leased a 757 and if its painted in AI livery i would like to see the pictures.

But I recently read a headline that said AI/AIX leased one 737-800 to IC for 4 months. Now they go and lease a B757. Does not make sense. Can the B737-800 not perform a BOM-AMD-KWI run. Both these A/C are in all economy configuration. From a business viewpoint, this falls under the "What the hell were they thinking" category.
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:57 am

also have heard that AI has leased one A310 from Turkish...is this just one lease being talked off or there are two aircrafts involved.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
Nimish
Posts: 2969
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Indian Aviation Thread:Part 43

Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:04 am

Quoting Manny (Reply 47):
From a business viewpoint, this falls under the "What the hell were they thinking" category.

Welcome to the mysterious world of Air India Big grin! We are a land of mystics, snake charmers and elephant riders after all, a few irrational aircraft decisions is perfectly natural and part of the plan  Wink
Incredible India!

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