How are AC operations in the southern cone doing?. Yields, load factors, etc. I know LIM, SCL, EZE and GRU are the destinations. SCL or EZE would get dedicated flights?.

Thanks

Don't forget BOG too.

Not to nitpic, but isnt Bogata in CENTRAL America??

Don't forget CCS too

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 2): Not to nitpic, but isnt Bogata in CENTRAL America??

I'm thinking you need a geography refresher.

Dl is doing very well in SA. Flying to most main cities in each country. They have truly shown us the way away from teh traditional Miami and JFK gateways. Houston with Continental and United at IAD also have service to Lati America.

Ooooops......

I just looked at a map. I'll talk to you guys later, after I get back from geography class.   

Quoting Eastern023 (Thread starter): How are AC operations in the southern cone doing?.

GRU is doing fine, around 80% loads and use to change planes from 763 to A343 during the Brazilian summer.

Felipe

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7): GRU is doing fine, around 80% loads and use to change planes from 763 to A343 during the Brazilian summer.

By the way, the new VARIG still codeshares with Air Canada to Canada.

What about SCL?.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5): Dl is doing very well in SA. Flying to most main cities in each country.

Who's DI?

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 9): Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5): Dl is doing very well in SA. Flying to most main cities in each country. Who's DI?

I think maybe he meant to type DL ?

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5): Dl is doing very well in SA. Flying to most main cities in each country. They have truly shown us the way away from teh traditional Miami and JFK gateways.

Is the topic about DL or AC? I'm confused.

Quoting BALAX (Reply 11): Is the topic about DL or AC? I'm confused.

Perhaps he thought AC meant aircraft.

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 2): Not to nitpic, but isnt Bogata in CENTRAL America??

No comments!

We are now talking about Air Cananda (AC).

What happened to rumors that AC was going to fly to PTY? Canada is the third largest tourist market for Panama after the US and the EU. PTY gets A330s and A310s from Transat and Westjet also flies to PTY. Anybody have any info? (BTW I know PTY is technically in Central America)

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 13): No comments!

Oh, I'm never going to hear the end of this.....lol

Don't forget I think AC will be flying to Margarita Island too for AC Vacations.

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 2): Not to nitpic, but isnt Bogata in CENTRAL America??

Oh, Lord... and I guess Rio de Janeiro is the capital of Argentina...   

Bogota is the capital of Colombia, a South American country.

AC has had YYZ CCS and aparently tried to build the route, with some success. Part of their problem has been total inconsistency in flight times and frequencies. They have operated the flight as a stand alone, then later combined it with POS (making it a triangle route YYZ POS CCS or YYZ CCS POS).

First of all, AC needs to pick a standard dep/arrival time and stick to it they seem to change it weekly almost and recently they have had ridiculous arrival times sometimes 2-3AM! On another post somebody said this was because of runway work but that makes no sense.

AC has a very extensive US, European and Asian network out of the YYZ mega hub, which will grow even more. Plan is to create in YYZ a "sterile" transit area, so that intl transit pax (for example Vzla to Europe or Asia) would not need any Cdn visa to transit through YYZ.

This would seem to be a huge competitive advantage over US majors given ever increasing difficulty for Vzlans to get US visa, plus the hassle of passing through US Immigration even if you have one.

Any of the posters here have any thoughts on how well the YYZ CCS service does for AC and whether they should build it as a transit route for above reasons? O&D traffic between Vzla and canada is pretty decent because of a fast growing Vzla population in canada, mostly in Toronto but a few in Montreal and Vancouver as well, in addition to Western canada oil region.

CCS is supposedly part of AC plan to build themselves in latin America. But they need to get a set fliight time and stick to it. Plus it would be nice to drop the POS stop one one way leg. If I recall the YYZ CCS route is combined with POS largely because of a limited number of A319s suitable for a long over water flights. Other than bumping the flight up to a 762ER or a 763 (unlikely) I don't think there is anything in the AC fleet other than the A319 suitable for this route, given range and over ocean flying. At this point at least it would not likely be economically feasible to assign a 762ER or 763 to the route and those aircraft are all assigned elsewhere. The A320s and A321s are not rated (from what I remember reading) for this flight, given distance and over water requirements.

I have often thought that YYZ PMV CCS might be a great route if the bilaterals permitted it. There is an ever growing number of Europeans traveling to Margarita. Admittedly there are several direct to PMV charters from various European destinations but a large number of Europeans still arrive via CCS, either directly on some European carrier or many still via a US carrier through the USA, if the price is right. If AC could offer Europe-YYZ-PMV at a competitive fare this would generate some business especially with STAR feed in Europe. Europe and Canada are now discussing open skies as well.

This route might have some merit in the other direction as well, for example PMV to Europe traffic, the market in Margarita of Venezuelans going to Europe may not be extremely large, but it is there and if AC could offer a competitive price on a connection to Europe or Asia they could well capture some of this.

The bottom line is that any airline that can offer international connections, while avoiding transiting the USA, is only going to grow their business. It is either to difficult for Vzlans to get a US visa or even if they have one many foreign nationals do not care for the US Immigration process if it can be avoided.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 19): AC has a very extensive US, European and Asian network out of the YYZ mega hub, which will grow even more. Plan is to create in YYZ a "sterile" transit area, so that intl transit pax (for example Vzla to Europe or Asia) would not need any Cdn visa to transit through YYZ.

YYZ's "sterile" transit area has opened in T1 Pier F (International Pier)

Cheers,
Kaz

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 20): YYZ's "sterile" transit area has opened in T1 Pier F (International Pier

OK....I think I can answer this one without putting my foot in my mouth.
 

The way T1 is set up now, a passenger still has to go thru a document check upon arrival. All necessary visas are needed to enter canada, even if just changing planes. For example, USA-YYZ-INTL, once you deplane you can walk to the international gate area, show your passport and onward boarding pass (or ticket) and go to the gate. In the reverse case (INTL-YYZ-USA) you can bypass Canadian formalities and head straight to USA pre-clearance. If you're going INTL-INTL (eg: GRU-YYZ-PEK), it's just about the same as USA-INTL. You'll deplane, go thru a quick passport check, and go right back to the INTL gate area. However, you'll still need all docs necessary to enter Canada, even though you never actually leave the transit area. Most important, if a visa is needed to enter Canada (eg: a Brazilian passport holder arriving from Brazil and connecting to China), then that visa is required to transfer through.

What Kaz is refering to is a true sterile area which the airport, immigration authorities, and Air Canada hope to have implemented soon. If and when that happens, then a transit visa will no longer be needed if remaining in the sterile area.

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 2): Not to nitpic, but isnt Bogata in CENTRAL America??

Well...I have to say that you must be joking... is that correct?

Quoting Bongo (Reply 22): Well...I have to say that you must be joking... is that correct?

NO, he wasn't...................which is something between unbelievable and extremly funny.

JAAH

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 23): NO, he wasn't...................which is something between unbelievable and extremly funny.

C'mon guys, give him a break. More than once I've seen writers in Canada's so-called national newspaper -- the Globe and Mail -- talk about Vancouver's magnificent view of the Rocky Mountains (which are actually about a day's drive away). I think he was pretty embarrassed by his geographical goof, which is more than I can say for the Globe.

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 21): The way T1 is set up now, a passenger still has to go thru a document check upon arrival. All necessary visas are needed to enter canada, even if just changing planes. For example, USA-YYZ-INTL, once you deplane you can walk to the international gate area, show your passport and onward boarding pass (or ticket) and go to the gate. In the reverse case (INTL-YYZ-USA) you can bypass Canadian formalities and head straight to USA pre-clearance. If you're going INTL-INTL (eg: GRU-YYZ-PEK), it's just about the same as USA-INTL. You'll deplane, go thru a quick passport check, and go right back to the INTL gate area. However, you'll still need all docs necessary to enter Canada, even though you never actually leave the transit area. Most important, if a visa is needed to enter Canada (eg: a Brazilian passport holder arriving from Brazil and connecting to China), then that visa is required to transfer through

Thanks for that detailed clarification and info.

If memory serves, there was some sort of pilot project in YVR by which a true in transit project would allow pax to pass without the visas. In any event this is something AC and the GTAA should pursue with the feds. If they can establish this at YYZ it will truly open up transit possibilities for the reasons stated.

what is urgently needed that AC upgrades CCS / BOG flight to a daily operation .... in order to be more intresting for connecting passengers....

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 23): Well...I have to say that you must be joking... is that correct? NO, he wasn't...................which is something between unbelievable and extremly funny

That's what I get for typing without thinking. I wasn't totally sure where Colombia was, but I knew it was near Costa Rica and Panama....hence the "Central America" statement. From now on, I'll stick with the USA and Canada.  

Quoting TPA" class=quote target=_blank>RP TPA (Reply 27): That's what I get for typing without thinking. I wasn't totally sure where Colombia was, but I knew it was near Costa Rica and Panama....hence the "Central America" statement. From now on, I'll stick with the USA and Canada.

dont worry, btw, Panama was before part of Colombia..... so RP TPA was not thinking so wrongly.....

cheers y saludos

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 2): Bogata in CENTRAL America??

You could have at least spelled it right... 

From the Colombia standpoint, AC has been either the carrier with the best load factors in the market, or the close second. They send the 763s to BOG in the high season and they keep going out full. Many people still connect through IAH, MIA and ATL b/c it´s either impossible to get a ticket on AC or it costs well over 1300USD (US carriers charge 650-850USD). AC is making the big bucks here in BOG, between pax and cargo.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 29): From the Colombia standpoint, AC has been either the carrier with the best load factors in the market, or the close second. They send the 763s to BOG in the high season and they keep going out full. Many people still connect through IAH, MIA and ATL b/c it´s either impossible to get a ticket on AC or it costs well over 1300USD (US carriers charge 650-850USD). AC is making the big bucks here in BOG, between pax and cargo.

really intresting how airlines are mixing the prices... they are charging 1300 UDS for BOG-YYZ-BOG but you can find for the same price (or little more) for a routing BOG-YYZ-FRA-YYZ-BOG....

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 27): From now on, I'll stick with the USA and Canada

Heck no, I bet you'll never forget where is colombia, that proves a.net is a "huge ocean of knowledge"   

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 29): Many people still connect through IAH, MIA and ATL b/c it´s either impossible to get a ticket on AC or it costs well over 1300USD

I know many pax choose DL and AA for that purpose. Isn't AV codesharing that flight with AC?? I bet if that's true, they can upgrade to a 767 year round a get a bunch of pax with the BOG hub (of course, if there's such availability of planes, which I doubt).

Cheers

JAAH

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 29): You could have at least spelled it right...

That's right.....rub it in!!!    

And to think I almost wrote "Columbia" earlier, before I noticed that the spelling didn't quite look right.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 31): Isn't AV codesharing that flight with AC??

yes they do, found on a randoom date not bad fares with them. just over 900 USD return including taxes....


Fri 1-Jun-07

Bogota (BOG)
Depart 12:40 am
Terminal 1 to Toronto (YYZ)
Arrive 6:40 am
Terminal 1 2,712 mi
(4,365 km)
Duration: 6hr 0mn
AV
Flight: 6963
Operated by: AIR CANADA -- AC963

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3Economy/Coach Class, Meal, Boeing 767-300
Please check in with AIR CANADA -- AC963. If checking in at a kiosk, use your name rather than confirmation number.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Total distance: 2,712 mi (4,365 km)
Total duration: 6hr 0mn


Sat 28-Jul-07

Toronto (YYZ)
Depart 3:30 pm
Terminal 1 to Bogota (BOG)
Arrive 8:30 pm
Terminal 1 2,712 mi
(4,365 km)
Duration: 6hr 0mn
AV
Flight: 6962
Operated by: AIR CANADA -- AC962

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3Economy/Coach Class, Meal, Boeing 767-300
Please check in with AIR CANADA -- AC962. If checking in at a kiosk, use your name rather than confirmation number.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Total distance: 2,712 mi (4,365 km)
Total duration: 6hr 0mn




Tip: Flight terminals may change. Please confirm the terminal with the airline before leaving for the airport.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 26): what is urgently needed that AC upgrades CCS / BOG flight to a daily operation .... in order to be more intresting for connecting passengers....

Is BOG not daily? I agree that to really make the route work it likely should be.

As to CCS, it probably should be daily as well but before that AC needs to pick a reasonable flight time to coordinate connections through YYZ, and stick to that time. AC has had that flight dep CCS at times ranging from morning to midnight, and most recently uterly crazy hours having the flight from YYZ arrive at 2 or 3AM and outbound to YYZ (via POS) with a 4 or 5AM dep time. These times are crazy. Another poster suggested it had to do with runway availability in CCS because of construction or upgrade work but I see no evidence of this when I pass through CCS frequently I never see any other airlines varying their flight times. Is it just AC?

YYZ-PMV-CCS-YYZ would be a good potential route.

Don't forget future expansion to South America and Central America for AC. San Salvador, Guatamala City, Georgetown, Quito and Guayaquil.

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 2): Not to nitpic, but isnt Bogata in CENTRAL America??

                    

Quoting Arrow (Reply 24): More than once I've seen writers in Canada's so-called national newspaper -- the Globe and Mail -- talk about Vancouver's magnificent view of the Rocky Mountains (which are actually about a day's drive away).

Spell it rocky mountains and then you have a factually correct article, because they are 1) very rocky and 2) definitely mountains. But indeed the Rocky Mountain chain is rather to the east.

Beech

Quoting Avianca (Reply 33): just over 900 USD return including taxes....

But 5 moths before departure! It´s outrageous! If you reserve it in april-may it will go over 1200USD.

AC should indeed make BOG daily but the bilateral doesn´t allow it, unless AV operated three flights a week. It would be a bit of an overkill then.

How is the YYZ-SCL-EZE flight doing?. Any chance of getting a dedicated bird to each city?.

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 39): How is the YYZ-SCL-EZE flight doing?. Any chance of getting a dedicated bird to each city?.

I believe it does quite well and, subject to a/c availability, might become dedicated stand alone route. However I have also heard AC does pretty well on the SCL EZE route.

Air Canada's routemap to South America is pretty interesting as they serve BOG, CCS, LIM, EZE, SCL and GRU. The only major market that AC doesn't serve is GIG (population: 5.613.000 and 11.620.000 in the metro area with a large vacation/biz travel market) . I wonder when (if ever) will AC serve GIG. Does anyone have any info regarding that?

Quoting AF086 (Reply 41): Air Canada's routemap to South America is pretty interesting as they serve BOG, CCS, LIM, EZE, SCL and GRU. The only major market that AC doesn't serve is GIG (population: 5.613.000 and 11.620.000 in the metro area with a large vacation/biz travel market) . I wonder when (if ever) will AC serve GIG. Does anyone have any info regarding that?

Depends on what you mean by "info"? Hard credible facts and information, I have none. But few posters on a.net do so I will resort to idel speculation like as we usually do here!

I remember reading on a thread long ago that AC would look seriously at YYZ GIG with more a/c coming online. There have been rumours that the YYZ GRU service has done well enough to warrant a 772 or 773 when they come online and that might free up a 763 for GIG. They would probably want to time it to fit with their YYZ Asia operations, primarily YYZ NRT. I expect they could do well on NRT YYZ Rio given amount of travel between Japan and Rio. I've been at DFW on a few occasions when a JAL flight has arrived and there are huge numbers of japanese waiting to get on AA to GIG.

late but whatever.. its Bogota, not Bogata. Ask your teacher for some Phonics too! Adios!

So far GIG doesn't look like its going to happen. I've seen future route mapping and GIG doesn't look like its on however it would be nice to see AC flying there. Lets hope so.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 19): AC has had YYZ CCS and aparently tried to build the route, with some success. Part of their problem has been total inconsistency in flight times and frequencies. They have operated the flight as a stand alone, then later combined it with POS (making it a triangle route YYZ POS CCS or YYZ CCS POS).

Sort of reminds me of their operations to India. BOM, then DEL nonstop, then DEL via ZRH, then DEL offline, and then plans to reenter. AC seems confused.

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 2): Not to nitpic, but isnt Bogata in CENTRAL America??

I am sorry. I have to continue  . "BOGATA" is a city named after Humphrey Bogart(a) ... Spanish way of saying Bogart. It is the capital of Columbia where the national costume is the fleece jacket. Of course its located in Central America. Sorry, I had to do it. Now you owe it to yourself to go visit BOG ... one of the most AMAZING cities in Latin America and hope to the great Colombian people.

Quoting Kiramakora (Reply 45): Now you owe it to yourself to go visit BOG

I hope to make it there one day. You'll recognize me. I'll be the guy wearing a paper bag over his head.

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 46): I hope to make it there one day. You'll recognize me. I'll be the guy wearing a paper bag over his head

You took the high road man, we have to give you that..  
Well, you are more than invited to BOG anytime..!!
 

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 2): Not to nitpic, but isnt Bogata in CENTRAL America??

No and neither is Mexico. Columbia is in South America and Mexico is in North America.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 47): You took the high road man, we have to give you that

Yeah, I can take it as well as I can dish it out. Like a lot of us, we've all commented on stupid posts on here. I never thought I'd be the one with the stupid post, but so much for that.