A small charter airline in the Pacific Northwest been operating a few weeks now.

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/256/story/48243.html

A friend of mine flew them to Phoenix said it was a pretty good experience, but a tough market to get into.

Wow, very short operations. Robert NWDC10

They did not even last one month.

Who else is not surprised by this announcement?

I predicted a shutdown date of March 22, 2007:

RE: The New Western Airlines To Fly Today (by Srbmod Jan 18 2007 in Civil Aviation)

They may have beaten my estimate by 6 weeks. I say may have since they are trying to line up additional financing. I'd honestly be surprised if they even have another flight.

[Edited 2007-02-07 23:17:42]

I'm pretty sure they were operating 737's exclusively. Doesn't surprise me at all as well, it seemed a long shot. Although the cross border Canadian traffic might have made for some realistic routes to AZ or CA.

[Edited 2007-02-07 23:19:57]

Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 4): I'm pretty sure they were operating 737's exclusively.

Their flights were operated by Xtra Airways, who only operates 737s. I guess if Western doesn't restart operations, Xtra could always shift the a/c they had dedicated to the operation over to the other airline they fly for, Skyvalue.

Another hair brain idea down the drain.. Absolutely no surprise  

Sheesh...

Even Indy made sure they had enough cash to last a year, didn't they?

Quoting Danairbus (Reply 2): They did not even last one month.

Not surprised. Didn't see one ad for Western down here in the Valley of the Sun, so if people don't know about you how to you sell the product?

As I said in other threads in the past, I have my doubts about the scheduled charter model in the US anymore. Too many don't make it.

I wonder if Allegiant, which is better established at BLI, might someday make at least some of these routes work.

Wow, I wonder if the end for Western has come already. According to Flytecomm, an Xtra Airways flight landed at SAN this morning, probably the Western one, although that would seem to contradict the info in this article.


MyAviation.net photo:

Photo © David Mueller

For any timetable collectors, you can download their pdf edition online before its gone;

http://www.iflywestern.com/flight%20schedule%2001_18_07.pdf

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11): For any timetable collectors, you can download their pdf edition online before its gone; http://www.iflywestern.com/flight%20schedule%2001_18_07.pdf

It appears to have been removed from their site. If anyone has it, would you care to share it?

Wow... that Myav shot is dated January 27! That's when I was there! I have a picture of the exact same plane at the exact same time... I don't recall seeing anyone else there with me when I was there, but I guess I was wrong...

Anyway, sad to hear they're ceasing ops. Hope they start up again!

Man, thats just disheartening. I hope they can find new financing, and perhaps a better business model (got one for sale!)

Damn, I didn't even have a chance to load the flightplans on FS2004.

If the info is true, which it seems, they must have had a bunch of really stupid a--holes that were in charge of this operation. Anyone should be able to at least complete 3 months of service!

Hell, anyone on this forum would have done better.

Oh well, shows the idiots out there trying the airline game. (Not the board game of the same name, which I have one.)

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 15): Damn, I didn't even have a chance to load the flightplans on FS2004.

AVSIM has plans and a repaint available, I managed to put Western on my FS about a week ago...

I think I'll keep them in honor of them!

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 16): Hell, anyone on this forum would have done better.

I doubt that.

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 16): Oh well, shows the idiots out there trying the airline game.

Anyone who ever gets into airline operations is an idiot, no questions asked. It just goes to show why I want to have my own airline someday.  

Cheers
WS

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 16): Hell, anyone on this forum would have done better.

Quoting G4resagent (Reply 18): I doubt that.

I'll give it a shot...
Read down:

. MoWeFr . . . . . . TuThSa . . . . . . . Su Only

BLI.....7:00a . . . BLI.....7:00a . . . . BLI.....7:00a
ONT...9:45a . . . SAN...10:00a . . . IWA...11:15a
ONT..10:15a . . . SAN...10:30a
IWA..12:30p . . . IWA...12:40p . . . IWA...12:00n
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .ONT...12:15p
IWA...1:15p . . . IWA....1:25p
SAN...1:25p . . . ONT....1:40p . . . .ONT....1:00p
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .IWA.....3:15p
SAN...2:10p . . . ONT....2:25p
IWA...4:20p . . . IWA....4:40p . . . .IWA.....4:00p
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .SAN.....4:10p
IWA...5:05p . . . IWA....5:25p
ONT...5:20p . . . SAN....5:35p . . . .SAN.....4:55p
ONT...5:50p . . . SAN....6:05p . . . .IWA.....7:05p
BLI.....8:35p . . . BLI.....9:05p
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . IWA.....7:50p
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . BLI......10:05p

The idea here is to provide IWA to ONT & SAN service.

Quoting BN727flyr (Reply 12): It appears to have been removed from their site. If anyone has it, would you care to share it?

I was just able to download it. If you're not, and would like it, send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send it to you. It's only a 68KB PDF file.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 7): Even Indy made sure they had enough cash to last a year, didn't they?

Considering they were ACA, a vendor for years before and with all the cash they had on-hand, you'd think management would have been smart enough to stop the experiment and possibly prolong the company.

My idea would be to ditch BLI completely and come down to either SLC or LAX, preferably SLC. Use either Airbii or 737NG's.

Perhaps XE will look into nonstop ONT-BLI service. But if the have been plotting routes for some time, I guess they may have already investigated it.

I wonder how much Xtra Airways received/was to receive for this operation?

I just checked and their schedule .pdf is still available on their website. Strangely enough, their website does not indicate that they have shut down.

http://www.iflywestern.com

Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 4): Although the cross border Canadian traffic might have made for some realistic routes to AZ or CA.

Anyone who's ever crossed the 49th at the Peace Arch can tell you that BLI isn't a viable alternative for YVR.

That said, I had suspected Whatcom County could have sustained the service on its own, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Too bad...I was pondering looking for work with them if I ended up moving to Bellingham for my year off school.

I see under 'find flights' , it says 'system update in progress..'. Good one.

This is pretty ironic. Just two days ago some business associates of mine were looking at Western's ONT - BLI flights to come up to my area for a couple days. They are in Orange county and love to fly out of ONT when they can, and what a bonus to avoid going through SEA!

We're in Mount Vernon, WA -- about a 1hr 40mins from SEA, compared to 25 minutes to BLI. Anytime someone adds service to BLI I get excited about it. Unfortunately the only place that is all that practical right now for me is LAS on Alligiant.

There has been considerable debate about a second airport in SEA that is on the north end of the city. Paine Field would be the logical choice, but it has been blocked...I'm really hoping that someone will pick up BLI to more California destinations...Alaska would be the obvious choice, but I think they are making too much money running Horizon flights from BLI to SEA.

It's funny, because it adds $150-$200 round trip to fly from BLI to SEA. It's a little pricey to only save an hour of travel time. I'm quite surprised they have such frequency.

Anyway, I am sorry to see Western fail at this. I don't think they have enough time to establish the route and it definately sounds like most people had never heard of them yet, so the marketing was not there either.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 26): Anyone who's ever crossed the 49th at the Peace Arch can tell you that BLI isn't a viable alternative for YVR.

I don't know about that completely. I understand that slightly over 50% of Allegiant's passengers at BLI are Canadian.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 5): Their flights were operated by Xtra Airways, who only operates 737s. I guess if Western doesn't restart operations, Xtra could always shift the a/c they had dedicated to the operation over to the other airline they fly for, Skyvalue.

Has anyone figured out if the three are linked more closely than let on?

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 26): Anyone who's ever crossed the 49th at the Peace Arch can tell you that BLI isn't a viable alternative for YVR.

Allegiant's operations have shown different. Remember, not all of the Greater Vancouver popularion actually lives in the city.

Quoting San747 (Reply 13): Wow... that Myav shot is dated January 27! That's when I was there! I have a picture of the exact same plane at the exact same time... I don't recall seeing anyone else there with me when I was there, but I guess I was wrong...

If you turn right as you enter the little lot on the corner of Laurel & Harbor, that's the side I was on. Was standing on a little plastic stool on top of the green metal box. I know there were another guy there who shot the arrival too, but I don't think he stayed for the departure. IIRC he said he reads the forums but hasn't signed up.

Were you on the other side (go left as you enter the lot)? I've never shot from over there, but I think I saw someone there as I was leaving. I left shortly after Western left.

EDIT: Just checked FlightAware, and it shows today's BLI-SAN flight as canceled: http://flightaware.com/live/findflig...ute.rvt?origin=bli&destination=san

[Edited 2007-02-08 07:11:20]

Am I correct in assuming this has to be the quickest an airline has inniated and terminiated service.

Quoting Hawaiian717 (Reply 31): If you turn right as you enter the little lot on the corner of Laurel & Harbor, that's the side I was on. Was standing on a little plastic stool on top of the green metal box. I know there were another guy there who shot the arrival too, but I don't think he stayed for the departure. IIRC he said he reads the forums but hasn't signed up. Were you on the other side (go left as you enter the lot)? I've never shot from over there, but I think I saw someone there as I was leaving. I left shortly after Western left.

OK, I think I remember seeing you over there...

I was on the the other side. I was there for both the arrival and departure, and I was with my friend Alyssa... We stayed until about 1, then came back at 2:30 after some lunch...

A couple more articles:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0207mr-wester0208.html

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/102/story/48210.html

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 32): Am I correct in assuming this has to be the quickest an airline has inniated and terminiated service.

It's pretty close. I'm not sure exactly how it compares but I know Sterling One only lasted about a month in December 1995 flying between LGB and Chicago using an AvAtlantic 727:


View Large View Medium

Photo © Michael Carter

After reading the articles, it doesn't appear that they have "ceased operations" - they're cancelling flights while they are trying to work out financial issues with Xtra Airways. Once that issue is resolved, they could start flying again.

Although, in restrospect, the article says the stranded 17 passengers in SAN... that's not a very impressive load for a 737-400....

Drew

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 21): I was just able to download it. If you're not, and would like it, send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send it to you. It's only a 68KB PDF file.

I was able to download it this morning. Thanks for the offer!  

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 14): Man, thats just disheartening. I hope they can find new financing, and perhaps a better business model (got one for sale!)

I can't believe they would even consider flying without a merchant ID number. I can't believe for a minute that they would even start selling tickets and taking credit card numbers without that in place.

I read that Western has already sold 3000 seats to Williams already. Not too shabby, but if they can't pay their fuel bills or pay XTRA, then I would have to guess that it very well could be over.

If it really is a simple merchant id problem for credit card payments, then I would suggest that someone start looking for a new job.

Sounds like a cash flow planning problem. Not enough in the bank until funds from passengers can be used.

As a scheduled public charter they would have to wait until passengers flew to collect funds from the escrow account.

But if the first few weeks of flights had light loads they would not be seeing much money. Selling 3000 tickets for the future sounds good but until they fly it doesn't help Western's revenue.

I'd also be curious to hear more from someone who knows a lot about public charters. I thought a charter operator could cancel a flight up to 10 days before the scheduled departure for no reason. Western's operator agreement even says We have no right to cancel the charter less than 10 days before departure, except for circumstance that make it physically impossible to perform the charter trip.

So I'll assume the money problem falls under the "physically impossible". Is that an acceptable reason to the government and if they get financing again the government will accept money problems as unavoidable and allow Western to continue to sell seats?

Airline Xtra Airways
Flight Number 1523
Departure City (Airport) Ontario, CA (ONT)
Departure Time 02/08/2007 07:35 PM
Arrival City (Airport) Bellingham, WA (BLI)
Arrival Time 02/08/2007 10:08 PM
Remaining Flight Time 02:33 (planned)
Aircraft Type Boeing 737-400
Current Altitude 0 feet
Current Groundspeed 0 mph
Flight Status Planned

Okay, here's the deal:

Their talk about "getting a merchant ID number" is a little disingenuous. What they're really talking about is getting someone to agree to process their bank card transactions. Why? Precisely because of issues like this. If the airline goes under, the processor is on the hook for the money that it has paid to the airline and which the customers will demand back from their bankcard. It's called a "chargeback". Processing airline bankcard transactions is a specialized business; it's really like extending a line of credit to the airline, secured by the credit card payments. Of course, that "security" evaporates when the airline has operational or financial issues. Accordingly, credit card processors routinely hold back a substantial percentage of the charged amount, and vary the amount held back based upon the airline's financial condition, just like a lender would with a line of credit. I remember being surprised at how punitive ATA's credit card processing agreement was, for example, shortly before its bankruptcy, but then realized that it made some sense.

That said, the other reason that this is disingenuous is that the consumer payments for the flights on a public charter MUST be held in an escrow account for that flight, and only disbursed after the flight is complete. The pubic charter operator can't "roll forward" the funds for a later flight to pay for a sooner flight, again, precisely to prevent them from robbing Peter to pay Paul. The airline operating the public charter (Xtra) also has all sorts of obligations under the applicable Federal rules, including that they, in effect, can't allow Western to run up a big tab with them. This, again, is designed to bring problems to the surface right away: Xtra can't run the flight if it hasn't been paid for other ones, and can't keep problems under the surface hoping that the customer will work out its problems. By requiring Xtra to refuse to fly unpaid flights, the rules thus bring the customer's financial issues to the surface before it gets too bad. One charter airline got pretty badly burned by this a few years ago -- the government imposed big penalties on it for flying flights "on credit" for its customer -- so nobody is going to stick their neck out, even for a good customer.

I of course don't know for sure, but given these rules, the company's "explanation" at a minimum suggests that the company's financial challenges are significant. This tends to be supported by the Port of Bellingham's aviation director, who characterized even the original financial data submitted by the company as "weak".

The whole merchant ID statement does not seem like the only reason to me because the passengers they did fly were cash only?

Or they were chosing to fly customers by taking the credit card number but we'll charge it later, in effect giving customers a personal loan?

I wonder how they were even checking to see if a credit card number was good or had an available balance if they had no merchant ID number.

If actual future bookings are good I would think there would be no problem getting an investment of funds to fill the gap. People can see the revenue streams. But if they are still saying this is what we THINK we will see in the future then I have my doubts.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 5): Their flights were operated by Xtra Airways

No wonder they didn't last. We did the gate and ground work for an Xtra Airways charter about a month ago and it was the biggest circus of an airline i have ever seen. Two and a half hours just to get a flight release faxed to us and some of the dirtiest a/c I have ever seen.

Bottom Line: No Airline Will Ever Replace The True Western Airlines that has been extinct not for almost two decades. And In My Opinion, That Is The Way It Should Stay!

You Cannot Replace The Classics!


TWA1985

Quoting TWA1985 (Reply 43): No Airline Will Ever Replace The True Western Airlines that has been extinct not for almost two decades.

Amen to that, unless Gordon Bethune runs it   

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 35): After reading the articles, it doesn't appear that they have "ceased operations" - they're cancelling flights while they are trying to work out financial issues with Xtra Airways. Once that issue is resolved, they could start flying again.

And would you trust them with your money?

They're trying to work something out with PayPal to process credit card transactions:

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/255/story/48312.html

If the credit card payments go to an escrow account payable to the bank (as they say in their public charter agreement) not the airline

Quote: ALL CHECKS, MONEY ORDERS, AND CREDIT CARD PAYMENTS MUST BE MADE PAYABLE TO VALLEY NATIONAL BANK

and are only released after the flight, I'm scratching my head wondering what the credit card problem is. They should seem safer than a typical startup airline that might go under.

There is a blog posting by The Cranky Flier that Xtra is saying they have a plane available for ad-hoc charter Feb 12 to April 1. An unused aircraft from elsewhere or the Western plane?

Apparently Xtra flew a 734 from BLI into IWA this evening then flying over to ONT. CXP 1521/1522.

If anyone cares, the DOT's public charter rules are posted here:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_03/14cfr380_03.html

North American puts a link to them on its web site, so that folks understand what they can and can't do if they want to charter a North American Airlines aircraft (i.e. what's a "private" charter and what's a "public" charter and what rules apply to chartering each?). http://www.flynaa.com/charterus_faqs.aspx#faq_2