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Mennix
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:54 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:33 am

BA has Heathrow. BA has a new luggage policy. I can't see any reason to take any BA flight in the future. To tell the truth, there hadn't been too much reasons before, too. But at single occasions I did use BA. Never again in the future
 
LGWspeedbird
Posts: 428
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:29 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:35 am

Reading my print out of the new policy v the old policy the only pax that are really going to be affected are World Traveller pax who will reduce by 18kgs and domestic pax whos allowance will decrease by 9kgs

All other pax should think themselves lucky as most have had their allowances increased!!
upcoming flights LHR-LAX-HNL-SFO-LHR
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:41 am

Good thing this is not the case on Caribbean flights. They are becominig very unpopular over here due to VS and even Excel Airways (who offers Excel One, Premium and Economy) competition. This would have killed them.
Look Up
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:52 am

From the BBC article and reflected in the BA policy:

Quote:
However, passengers will be able to carry one piece of sporting equipment free of charge.

So the trick is to make your second bag a golf/ski/etc. bag. That way you can get around this rule.

What's insane is that there are plenty of long haul fares lower than £120 one-way (before taxes). BA will often be charging more for a single bag than for a person with the same bag.
 
silverfox
Posts: 1086
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:24 am

Pearson asked

Yeah, 120 GBP for per extra bag irrespective of weight (same maximum weight?). I understand that. But what if, say, you had two bags each weighing 12.5 kilos, so 30 kilos each. You also have a third bag, but that's pretty compact and weighs 3.2 kilos. What would be done? 120 GBP? Or would they advise to take it as carry-on (assuming you don't exceed that maximum)? Or turn a blind-eye? Or...?
First of all where does 2 times 12.5 kg come to 30 kg?

OK Here is the deal

You have two bags at say 17KG and 19KG and are going to US
That is ok 2 bags under 23kg

Now add a third bag at say 9 KG

You have options

1) check in the third bag at 120 GBP per flight

OR

Repack the contents into the other two bags (maths 17 +19+9 = 45kg divide that by 2 and that is 22.5 kg per bag which is less that the 23kg limit

Is that OK?



BUT did you know that the carry on wright for BA luggage is Also 23kg??????

Just as long
1) the bag must be less thn 56x45x25 cm dimensions
2) fit into the check gauge
3) be lifted into the overhead locker by the passenger

Staff not allowed to do it Health and safety etc


How do i know all this

Training as CSA for BA and in 3rd week of course



Next question
 
COEI2007
Posts: 837
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:33 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:26 am

It makes EI's bag policy a bargain! 2 bags for E8 if you pay online!!!
 
silverfox
Posts: 1086
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:31 am

So BA offer of 2 bags FREE is worse than EI one of you paying to take luggage?

Now thats Irish!!!!
 
Sketty222
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting Silverfox (Reply 54):
Pearson asked

Yeah, 120 GBP for per extra bag irrespective of weight (same maximum weight?). I understand that. But what if, say, you had two bags each weighing 12.5 kilos, so 30 kilos each. You also have a third bag, but that's pretty compact and weighs 3.2 kilos. What would be done? 120 GBP? Or would they advise to take it as carry-on (assuming you don't exceed that maximum)? Or turn a blind-eye? Or...?
First of all where does 2 times 12.5 kg come to 30 kg?

OK Here is the deal

You have two bags at say 17KG and 19KG and are going to US
That is ok 2 bags under 23kg

Now add a third bag at say 9 KG

You have options

1) check in the third bag at 120 GBP per flight

OR

Repack the contents into the other two bags (maths 17 +19+9 = 45kg divide that by 2 and that is 22.5 kg per bag which is less that the 23kg limit

Is that OK?



BUT did you know that the carry on wright for BA luggage is Also 23kg??????

Just as long
1) the bag must be less thn 56x45x25 cm dimensions
2) fit into the check gauge
3) be lifted into the overhead locker by the passenger

Staff not allowed to do it Health and safety etc


How do i know all this

Training as CSA for BA and in 3rd week of course



Next question

 bigthumbsup  Very well explained  bigthumbsup 

Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
9VSIO
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:00 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting LGW (Reply 35):
For VS economy class :-

Two pieces of luggage per passenger, each weighing up to 23kg (51lbs). When added together, the three dimensions of any piece of luggage must not exceed 158cm (62in).



Quoting Zarniwoop (Reply 5):
World Traveller*, Euro Traveller, BA Connect & UK Domestic
Customers will be able to check one bag into the aircraft hold free of charge.

each bag can be up to 23kg in each class.



Quoting LGW (Reply 35):
This isn't new, VS already operate the same policy

That does NOT look like the same policy to me...perhaps you can clarify?
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
LGW
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 58):
That does NOT look like the same policy to me...perhaps you can clarify?

The BA policy allows 2 bags in World Traveller (i.e Economy) to the US, Caribbean, Nigeria which is the same as Virgin's policy on these routes.
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:45 am

Apart from the example of the elderly person preferring two small bags, what do people carry in a second or third checked bag? I've never had more than one checked bag - ever - and people still say I take too much with me. When I decided one big suitcase was too heavy to carry around, I bought one with wheels.
 
noelg
Topic Author
Posts: 2313
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:39 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 44):
Did you read the rest of my post and the thread read again!! £120 for Longhaul £60 for shorthaul £30 for domestics!

Yes, each way!!! Which makes double that for a return flight!!

I dread to think of the people connecting through LHR both ways with more than one bag on long haul - you're talking big money here.
 
LGW
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting Noelg (Reply 61):
I dread to think of the people connecting through LHR both ways with more than one bag on long haul

Many l/h destination's it's 2 bags, USA, Canada, Caribbean, Nigeria, Brazil etc (off the top of my head)
 
mutu
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting Mennix (Reply 50):
BA has Heathrow. BA has a new luggage policy. I can't see any reason to take any BA flight in the future. To tell the truth, there hadn't been too much reasons before, too. But at single occasions I did use BA. Never again in the future

Research has suggested this will not affect 98% of travellers, and I would think you rarely travel with more than 23kg to fit in one bag, so one checked bag plus one cabin bag,,seems fair and of course free.

Everyone is getting hysterical about this but unless you regularly travel with 60kg of baggage you neednt worry (and if you do, think of it this way, your bags are the same weight as a typical passenger...)

As to your choice not to fly BA again, well thats your choice and there is so much choice it will be no hardship to you, or to BA or to other BA passengers!

Wiedersehen
 
mutu
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 33):



Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 33):
How can Airlines justify this?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Sometimes I wonder where greed will stop!

QF will be next just watch! Thank heavens I fly DJ and SQ internationally!

Again I reiterate, read the facts on BA.com. I would be very surprised if you, Sparklehorse, will ever end up paying for bags on BA. BUt as for certain passengers who check in 5 shrink wrapped boxes and 4 cases each, everyone else has been effectively subsidising them for years but with oil where it is, seems to me fairer the more you check the more you pay.

There are airlines that charge for every bag but BA is not one of them
 
Mortyman
Posts: 5921
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:35 am

Have BA lost all contact with ground level........................................... ?
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Mutu (Reply 63):
this will not affect 98% of travellers

That's what I suspected. I'm far more concerned about fitting my usual plus a laptop into one carry-on bag that fits under the seat and, as explained above, that's nothing to do with BA.
 
silverfox
Posts: 1086
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:25 am

Lee,
Thanks for the Thumbs up
first time i have had it!!!
 
Sketty222
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting Silverfox (Reply 67):
Thanks for the Thumbs up
first time i have had it!!!

No probs, keep the sensible responses coming and Im sure you'll get more

Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:22 am

Quoting Noelg (Reply 61):
I dread to think of the people connecting through LHR both ways with more than one bag on long haul - you're talking big money here.

Anyone travelling through LHR and on BA all the way are actually pay less than if they are travelling on other carriers and the charges are clearly set out and known before hand.

For example MAN-LHR-SYD all on BA pays only £120 for an extra piece.

That route on BD then VS or even QF will then revert to IATA rates which work out at much more than £120, given that the excess from LHR to SYD works out at around £40 per kilo.

I ask any of you to find out the IATA rates for excess per kilo on any of the weight routes and see how much it would cost to take a bag at 23kgs. Too often I have had to tell passengers with even 10kgs excess that it will cost them sometimes more than £200......on the new system it's a flat rate of £120 for a longhaul flight and they get a discount for prepaying online.

So while many of you seem to think that these rates are high, I for one think they are much fairer and much easier to deal with.

As for elderly or others who or less physically abled, such as wheelchair passengers, agents still have discretion to consider the circumstances of the individual, as we do now.

[Edited 2007-02-09 01:30:05]
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 27):
The new policy hasn't been pushed back until September. The only aspect that has been extended is allowing passengers with more than 23kgs (but less than 32kgs) in a bag to take the bag without the need to repack, while being made aware of the 23kgs requirement. This allows passengers to become more aware of the weight limit.

If the passenger's bags is above 23kg but less than 32 kgs, will they still be asked to pay the excess charge till sept? Or will it be waived till september?
 
AJMIA
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:29 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:49 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 2):
Holy $hit, that's a lot of money! To make matters worse, BA losses 7 out of 10 bags that go through LHR, at least in my experience. By 'lose' I mean getting your luggage 2-5 days later.

So the money you pay for your extra piece should more than cover BA's cost of having your bags delivered directly to your front door when they finally sort it out.

In my perfect world all checked baggage would be paid for by weight...
.25c per lb for first 100 lbs
.50c per lb for next 100 lbs
$1.50 per lb for anything checked after first 200 lbs

This would really encourage people to pack thoughfully.

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 9):
First and Club World - 3 bags
Club Europe - 2 bags
World Traveller Plus - 2 bags
World Traveller (former piece routes) - 2 bags
World Traveller (former weight routes), domestic and EuroTraveller - 1 bag

Wow can someone explain all these product offerings and amenities/services associated with them? I am more accostomed to First, Business, and Coach.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
art
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:54 pm

I can book Heathrow-Hong Kong-Heathrow in March @ £387.80 return including all taxes. That's if I take 1 bag. Taking 2 bags would increase the cost of the trip by over 60%.

BA is being quite, quite ridiculous. Wave goodbye to lots of passengers!
 
skyhigh
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:37 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:51 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 23):
If you do the maths its about the going rate for excess baggage (providing the bag is near the 23kg limit) £120 / 23 = £5.21 per kg. The last time I looked at published rates for excess baggage £5.00 per kg seemed to be the norm.

It is an extremely inflexible and unfair charge. I travel in a wheelchair and I travel regularly. When I travel, I need to take a lightweight, fold up shower chair, which weighs 12kg and comes in its own zip up bag. Obviously, this is to large to put in my personal baggage. I only ever take one personal bag and the combined total never takes me over 23kg.

I am therefore being charged £120 for 0kg excess baggage by a system that unfairly penalises me. If I could travel with one bag, I would!

I am not just calling the disabled card. Many people will be carrying objects that just can't fit in their personal baggage.

To make matters worse, once exchanged into Australian dollars, this fee is an exorbitant $600 return!!  Wow!

Will the fee be different based on the Country that the ticket originates in?
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:02 pm

The fairest way to charge weight would be to put each apssenger and his luggage on a balance and sum it up..
Finally what the aircraft has to transport is the weight of pax plus baggage.
Now if I am a small asian lady that weights maybe 40 Kg and have to pay the same for my seat as the heavyweight Texan Hambuger-eater with 120 Kg -where's the justice ?????
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:27 pm

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 69):
I ask any of you to find out the IATA rates for excess per kilo on any of the weight routes and see how much it would cost to take a bag at 23kgs. Too often I have had to tell passengers with even 10kgs excess that it will cost them sometimes more than £200......on the new system it's a flat rate of £120 for a longhaul flight and they get a discount for prepaying online.

From what I recall, the IATA rate is 1% of the standard first class fare per kilo for being over the baggage weight limit (or at least it used to be). Where this analogy breaks down is that one's entire free limit must now be contained to one bag, so the comparison is a bit unfair.

I just did a test booking on aa.com for a BA flight LHR-AMS for Feb 25. It gave me a rate of $39 one-way plus $45.30 in taxes for a total of US$84.30. It's not unusual for people to purchase tickets this way, via channels other than ba.com. Nowhere in the fare rules posted did it mention the baggage policy, and I would be left up to my own devices to call BA to discover that once I got to England and tried to check-in for my separately purchased ticket, that my second bag would cost an extra £60, more expensive than the price of the ticket itself.

BA, in fact all airlines, need to make a clear statement of their baggage policy in their fare rules, so that everyone is aware of what potential charges they may expect.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:55 pm

Quoting Skyhigh (Reply 73):
It is an extremely inflexible and unfair charge. I travel in a wheelchair and I travel regularly. When I travel, I need to take a lightweight, fold up shower chair, which weighs 12kg and comes in its own zip up bag. Obviously, this is to large to put in my personal baggage. I only ever take one personal bag and the combined total never takes me over 23kg.

The policy is not inflexible and takes individual circumstances (such as yours) into consideration. I suggest actually finding out about the policy rather than going on rumour and media spin before judging. If you have ever travelled with BA, you would know that items considered mobility aids, ie wheelchairs, pushchairs, walking aid, etc, have never been counted within the standard allowance and there is no change under this new policy.

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 70):
If the passenger's bags is above 23kg but less than 32 kgs, will they still be asked to pay the excess charge till sept? Or will it be waived till september?

Charges only apply to extra pieces and so there will be no charges for bags between 23kgs and 32kgs.

Unlike many other carriers, BA has opted not to impose charges based on both weight and pieces since the new system is based on a general piece allowance.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 75):
From what I recall, the IATA rate is 1% of the standard first class fare per kilo for being over the baggage weight limit (or at least it used to be). Where this analogy breaks down is that one's entire free limit must now be contained to one bag, so the comparison is a bit unfair.

The IATA rates vary between 1-1.5% (depends on route) of the highest normal adult fare per kilo, which to many places is quite high. Also the reality is that on routes where the current allowance is 23 kgs, the majority of passenger already travel with just one bag and this change will affect very few passengers.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:08 pm

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 76):
The IATA rates vary between 1-1.5% (depends on route) of the highest normal adult fare per kilo, which to many places is quite high. Also the reality is that on routes where the current allowance is 23 kgs, the majority of passenger already travel with just one bag and this change will affect very few passengers.

Thanks for validating my sometimes shady memory on IATA rules.

I do have to ask, however, do most travelers in Economy who fly from the UK to Australia, or say to Thailand for a two-week holiday, traditionally travel with only one piece of luggage? While I'm more used to the piece system, if I'm going anywhere for longer than a week to ten days, I'll pack one medium-to-large sized bag, along with a smaller bag, especially since there are so many restrictions for what may be carried onboard. The figures I'm seeing that only about 2% of all travelers will be affected seem improbable.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:04 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 77):
I do have to ask, however, do most travelers in Economy who fly from the UK to Australia, or say to Thailand for a two-week holiday, traditionally travel with only one piece of luggage?

Yes, the vast majority tend to travel with one bag, which is indeed a bit difficult for those of us who originate from or travel often to countries under the current piece system.

Also, just to clarify, this new policy is part of a larger change which saw BA increase the size of the handbaggage allowed and was only delayed due to the security restrictions last summer. However, given that the UK government has relaxed the rules to allow bags up to the size allowed by BA and there has been some stability in the security situation, BA has decided to move ahead with this change.

So while there is a restriction to 1 bag (on some routes), they can take a large carry-on provided they can lift it unaided.
 
AndyEastMids
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:24 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:46 pm

I think that this is an interesting move by BA...

1. Unlike Ryanair, FlyBe and the like where the charges are relatively low, in BA's case this isn't designed as a revenue raising exercise - quite clearly, the charges are set to discourage travel with extra baggage

2. Reducing the amount of baggage in the system benefits everyone except the minority who want to carry excess baggage - it reduces the cost of baggage handling to BA, it reduces loading/unloading and baggage wait times, it reduces checkin queues, it has the potential to reduce losses

3. Restricting the number of bags passengers are allowed to check included in the price may have an effect of pushing some passengers towards the premium cabins - if a passenger is waivering between WT and WTP, or WTP and Club and knows they want to take more bags, the new rules may swing the decision - in some cases, the difference in fares will be wiped out baggage costs

4. Most passengers, once aware of the new rules, will just accept it and get on with it, travelling with the appropriate number of bags

5. BA is moving towards wanting to be a premium airline - see 3 above. If the consequences of these new rules are that it loses a few infrequent travellers paying the lowest fares in the back cabin, I don't think they'll worry too much about that. Sure there will be some complaints from the "I travel with BA regularly and this is one more reason to defect to Ryan/easy" but travellers who are in this position are mainly paying marginal/low fares and pandering to these passengers is not really where BA wants to be headed

6. For far too long now, airlines have been giving away too much especially to those travelling on rock bottom fares. Many of those travelling with extra baggage are the once-a-year passengers travelling on the lowest fares. These are the passengers the rules will affect most of all. Relatively few of them will defect (certainly relatively few in terms of the overall number of passengers carried by BA) and in any case as many of those on very low fares they are loss making, marginal or very low profit passengers that BA won't be too worried by losing anyway

7. If by some remote chance (unlikely IMHO) these new rules upset any significant number of BA's regular customers, then all they have to do is allow BAEC Gold and Silver members extra allowances (as Star Alliance airlines already do) and they'll restore the balance, leaving the infrequent low fare payers being the group impacted, which won't trouble BA too much anyway

Anyway, overall I think its a courageous decision for BA to apply these rules, but one that I think is in line with their strategy and will ultimately be seen as a good move for the airline's business.

Andy
 
LGW
Posts: 4281
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:04 pm

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 79):
I think that this is an interesting move by BA...

1. Unlike Ryanair, FlyBe and the like where the charges are relatively low, in BA's case this isn't designed as a revenue raising exercise - quite clearly, the charges are set to discourage travel with extra baggage

2. Reducing the amount of baggage in the system benefits everyone except the minority who want to carry excess baggage - it reduces the cost of baggage handling to BA, it reduces loading/unloading and baggage wait times, it reduces checkin queues, it has the potential to reduce losses

3. Restricting the number of bags passengers are allowed to check included in the price may have an effect of pushing some passengers towards the premium cabins - if a passenger is waivering between WT and WTP, or WTP and Club and knows they want to take more bags, the new rules may swing the decision - in some cases, the difference in fares will be wiped out baggage costs

4. Most passengers, once aware of the new rules, will just accept it and get on with it, travelling with the appropriate number of bags

5. BA is moving towards wanting to be a premium airline - see 3 above. If the consequences of these new rules are that it loses a few infrequent travellers paying the lowest fares in the back cabin, I don't think they'll worry too much about that. Sure there will be some complaints from the "I travel with BA regularly and this is one more reason to defect to Ryan/easy" but travellers who are in this position are mainly paying marginal/low fares and pandering to these passengers is not really where BA wants to be headed

6. For far too long now, airlines have been giving away too much especially to those travelling on rock bottom fares. Many of those travelling with extra baggage are the once-a-year passengers travelling on the lowest fares. These are the passengers the rules will affect most of all. Relatively few of them will defect (certainly relatively few in terms of the overall number of passengers carried by BA) and in any case as many of those on very low fares they are loss making, marginal or very low profit passengers that BA won't be too worried by losing anyway

7. If by some remote chance (unlikely IMHO) these new rules upset any significant number of BA's regular customers, then all they have to do is allow BAEC Gold and Silver members extra allowances (as Star Alliance airlines already do) and they'll restore the balance, leaving the infrequent low fare payers being the group impacted, which won't trouble BA too much anyway

Anyway, overall I think its a courageous decision for BA to apply these rules, but one that I think is in line with their strategy and will ultimately be seen as a good move for the airline's business.

Andy

Best post in this thread so far and one I totally agree with.
 
cgnnrw
Posts: 1073
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 3:11 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:54 pm

Quoting LGW (Reply 80):
1. Unlike Ryanair, FlyBe and the like where the charges are relatively low, in BA's case this isn't designed as a revenue raising exercise - quite clearly, the charges are set to discourage travel with extra baggage

Then why not just make it easier by charging GBP25/back? Same results with less angry customers.
A330 man.
 
Door5Right
Posts: 691
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:29 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:48 pm

BA is back tracking like mad now over this luggage fiasco and the outrage expressed by charities for the elderly:

From the latest press release:

"British Airways has absolutely no intention of discriminating against passengers who cannot comfortably carry a 23kg bag. Where it is clear that a passenger cannot manage one bag, we will let them check in an additional bag (or more) provided the total weight is within the 23 kg limit."

Now this leads to the interesting question of who is going to decide at check-in if the person is fit enough or not?

In theory this now means anyone can check-in to bags provided both do not exceed the 23kg limit and claim they are unable to cope with one bag at 23kg.

I foresee interesting times at the check-in desks.

Poor BA - their public relations just doesn't get any better!
My soul is in the sky...
 
Mennix
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:54 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:30 pm

There is a lot of like "98% of the passengers are not affected" in this forum. Sorry for you guys, but this is pure nonsense.

Whats about those mechanics who go to customer service with all their tooling? Even those are Premium passengers, they very often have a problem? Whats about those on being on longer trips even as Premium passengers?

I myself did travel last year around 125.000,00 miles. 80 % of it was Business Class Intercontinental with AF/KL. Always with two bags and one big, heavy cabin bag. The cabin bag contains everything I do not want to check like laptops, paperwork, medics etc. It is a bit bigger than the official size and it has an avarage of 15kgs.

No problems in Paris or Amsterdam. The last two times at LHR they forced me to check in my carry on. What would this mean in the future? Yep! Don't fly BA, it's that easy.

All this arguments about Premium airline are pure nonsense. The truth is quite simple: LHR is not able to handle passenger luggage in the right way. They are about as good in handling as MXP. So very closed to zero. If BA really wants to be a Premium airline, they should start to switch their service in the background to Premium. Ripping off passengers to fit the airlines needs is the absolute wrong way!
 
richierich
Moderator
Posts: 3632
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:36 am

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 14):
LOL. Very true. But the thing is, both FR and BA are very profitable.

This agreement makes the recently introduced Spirit second bag fee look silly.
I think BA are shooting themselves in the foot here, and rather than have other airlines follow their lead, this might be a policy that BA has to relax in the future. People will vote with their feet!

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 40):
Joke aside -BA might shoot themselves in the foot and lose customers to an extent ,that even the higher revenues through luggage fees wil not be compensated by the number of lost passengers.
American and Asian carriers serving the UK will exploit that new rule and rightfully so !!!

I agree. This is not about BA's survival or some sort of necessary fee, this is about corporate greed.
I like BA, but its hard to justify this decision.
None shall pass!!!!
 
art
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Door5Right (Reply 82):
"British Airways has absolutely no intention of discriminating against passengers who cannot comfortably carry a 23kg bag. Where it is clear that a passenger cannot manage one bag, we will let them check in an additional bag (or more) provided the total weight is within the 23 kg limit."

Right. So BA is going to tell me whether or not it is clear to them whether I can comfortably carry a 23Kg bag. How exactly is BA qualified to judge that?

"I have a bad back. I should not carry 23Kg using one hand."

"That's £240 extra, sir, unless you have a medical certificate issued by your doctor attesting to your spinal problem stipulating that when carrying 23Kg, the load needs to be distributed both sides of the torso."

Keep backtracking on this utterly mercenary move, BA, or watch customers desert to other carriers.

Oh yes, since this surcharge is cover extra costs (presumably), what is the cost of checking in and handling one extra bag? I don't think it is £240. I don't think it is £140. I don't think it is even £40.

To anyone who is in the know, I would ask how much it is.

[Edited 2007-02-09 22:25:33]
 
kiramakora
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:00 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting Noelg (Reply 13):
According to the Daily Telegraph, BA confirmed that its sales staff were instructed not to tell customers in advance when they booked their tickets.

Interesting.

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 79):
2. Reducing the amount of baggage in the system benefits everyone except the minority who want to carry excess baggage - it reduces the cost of baggage handling to BA, it reduces loading/unloading and baggage wait times, it reduces checkin queues, it has the potential to reduce losses

I disagree. If the excess baggage only applied to the minority, then a draconian move like BAs would surely not have system benefits, reduce loading/unloading, and other things you mention.

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 79):
4. Most passengers, once aware of the new rules, will just accept it and get on with it, travelling with the appropriate number of bags

Again, I disagree. An airline is about an image. BA might not lose much in uncompetetive markets, but it will lose passengers in competetive sectors. For example, ceteris paribus, I know many Asian passengers who would rather fly a generous Asian airline than take BA. It will be interesting to see how this effects demand for BA. For me personally, I think people will start voting with their wallet in India and move their business. Only OW allegiance can hold them back.
 
BALAX
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:56 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Art (Reply 85):
Right. So BA is going to tell me whether or not it is clear to them whether I can comfortably carry a 23Kg bag. How exactly is BA qualified to judge that?

Get off you horses. BA will ask you if you are suitable for lifting the bag. This bag is a CARRYON by the way. If BA asks you to lift it in front of their staff and you struggle, then most likely you'll have to check it in as cabin crew will not be required to assist you in lifting the bag for you. Does this make any sense or should I go further?

Secondly, there is the short haul baggage allowance and the long haul allowance(on certain markets). Domestic and intra-European flights currently allow 23kg per bag, well, this is gonna remain the same so what's the big deal? There were changes that were going to affect certain long haul routes such as the United States, Nigeria, Brazil, Canada and Mexico. Changes were going to be the regular number of bags allowed in the hold (3 for 1st and Club pax, 2 for WTP or WT) but at 23kg each bag, down from the standard of 32kg. Now that is being rescinded until September 30. What remains the charge of GBP120 for each excess bag that you check in after the allowance. So it goes up by a few dollars, big deal. It's in par with other airlines. And you might be thinking of 240USD instead? It's more like 220USD per bag when converted. So make sure to read thoroughly what the policy is going to consist of.
 
kiramakora
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:00 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting BALAX (Reply 87):
Changes were going to be the regular number of bags allowed in the hold (3 for 1st and Club pax, 2 for WTP or WT) but at 23kg each bag, down from the standard of 32kg. Now that is being rescinded until September 30. What remains the charge of GBP120 for each excess bag that you check in after the allowance. So it goes up by a few dollars, big deal.

I do think that a price differential of GBP 240 return - almost USD 480 is a big deal.
 
BALAX
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:56 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting Kiramakora (Reply 88):
I do think that a price differential of GBP 240 return - almost USD 480 is a big deal.

Let me give you some examples where it is already about that amount from some points in the US. LAX to CAI is about 190 dollars. LAX to anywhere in the Middle East is about the same. LAX to points in Nigeria, Uganda , South Africa is currently 220 dollars. So being said, you can go online and prepay the amount and get a discount. It's still in par with many carriers.
 
art
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting BALAX (Reply 87):
So make sure to read thoroughly what the policy is going to consist of.

BA certainly does not want me to know what the policy is going to consist of, it seems...

Quoting Noelg (Reply 13):
According to the Daily Telegraph, BA confirmed that its sales staff were instructed not to tell customers in advance when they booked their tickets.

Why would BA tell staff to conceal their policy unless

a) they were worried that customers would take their custom elsewhere if they were open about their policy

or

b) they hope that in concealing the charges, suckers like me will turn up at the airport with >1 bag and then get presented with an unexpected demand for payment at checkin when it's a little too late for me to do anything about their less than open approach to this matter

Both of the above are outrageous.

UK passengers who get caught out in this manner will create hell for BA when they get back to the UK. Consumer associations and the press will slaughter BA and deservedly so. Playing dirty tricks on your customers is not a clever idea, something that I hope BA will come to appreciate if they persist in this approach.
 
BALAX
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:56 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting Art (Reply 90):
b) they hope that in concealing the charges, suckers like me will turn up at the airport with >1 bag and then get presented with an unexpected demand for payment at checkin when it's a little too late for me to do anything about their less than open approach to this matter


[Edited 2007-02-10 00:07:14]
 
art
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting BALAX (Reply 91):
your carry on bag couldn't be heavier than 6kg prior to all this so what is the big deal?



Quoting Noelg (Reply 13):
According to the Daily Telegraph, BA confirmed that its sales staff were instructed not to tell customers in advance when they booked their tickets.

That's the big deal.
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 694
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting Art (Reply 90):
Quoting BALAX (Reply 87):
So make sure to read thoroughly what the policy is going to consist of.

BA certainly does not want me to know what the policy is going to consist of, it seems...

Quoting Noelg (Reply 13):
According to the Daily Telegraph, BA confirmed that its sales staff were instructed not to tell customers in advance when they booked their tickets.

Why would BA tell staff to conceal their policy unless

a) they were worried that customers would take their custom elsewhere if they were open about their policy

or

b) they hope that in concealing the charges, suckers like me will turn up at the airport with >1 bag and then get presented with an unexpected demand for payment at check-in when it's a little too late for me to do anything about their less than open approach to this matter

Both of the above are outrageous.

OK, time to correct this. In May 2006, BA started to advertise this change, with the aim of introducing it in October 2006. Information was released to the media, on BA.com and emailed to BAEC members and to passengers booked after October 2006. BA staff were actively promoting this and at LHR and other stations passengers were given flyers with the information when they checked in. The only time staff were told not to advise passengers of this was when the original implementation date was scrapped due to the security alert in August 2006. This made sense as there was no new date set and informing passengers would have been illogical.

Once the decision was made in December 2006 that the new date for the policy would be 13 February 2007, staff were informed and encouraged to inform passengers as they check in. We have been actively informing passengers of this from that time and there has been no attempt to hide this policy as the information is available on BA.com. Many passengers checking in over the past few weeks were already aware of the change and have even discussed it with staff. I should know as I have had passengers ask about it and especially about when the pre-payment option would be available. I have also seen passengers checking in, who have had the more recent flyer which was either given to them by travel agents or that they received directly from BA by post.

For those of you who think that £120 is too much, I say please do travel on other carriers where you can look forward to paying around £30-35 per kg in excess to South African or even even more to places like Australia and then tell me that £120 is too much to be allowed to take and extra piece up to 23kgs, considering that you can get a discount by pre-paying.

How many airlines give you the option of pre-paying for excess online at a discount? Why don't they do this? Simple, most airlines have their charges based on weight. BA has decided to go the other way and simply do it on pieces.
 
A340600
Posts: 3898
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:24 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:22 am

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 28):
Yeah, 120 GBP for per extra bag irrespective of weight (same maximum weight?). I understand that. But what if, say, you had two bags each weighing 12.5 kilos, so 30 kilos each. You also have a third bag, but that's pretty compact and weighs 3.2 kilos. What would be done? 120 GBP? Or would they advise to take it as carry-on (assuming you don't exceed that maximum)? Or turn a blind-eye? Or...?

I know you fly a lot, so surely you can understand this simple rule. And as for the blind-eye it's fairly obvious this is down to the individual at the desk as it is bending rules.

Quoting DigbyDude (Reply 30):
As a frequent passenger on BA , almost 56 flights in 2006 alone, but still a blue member (because I try to always get the low fare, and so don't collect tier points, but recently worked out that if I had an Iberia points card, I would have lounge access now!!!),

It's quite simple, the BA Executive Club is not called Executive for nothing. As I have said many times on this forum it rewards those customers that give to BA, your cheap fares don't earn them their profit. Unlike other carriers such as IB it isn't over-generous all round and who makes the most profit?

Quoting Captaink (Reply 52):
They are becominig very unpopular over here due to VS and even Excel Airways (who offers Excel One, Premium and Economy)

Why anyone in their right mind would want to fly XL over BA is beyond me silly 

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 79):
1. Unlike Ryanair, FlyBe and the like where the charges are relatively low, in BA's case this isn't designed as a revenue raising exercise - quite clearly, the charges are set to discourage travel with extra baggage

 checkmark 

I'm unsure if I agree with this, whilst I could see it working in many cases, the prices are rediculously expensive and there are far too many occasions where you would fall foul to it,

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting Zarniwoop (Reply 5):
*World Traveller customers travelling / connecting to or from the US, Canada, Caribbean, Nigeria, Brazil and Mexico will continue to be allowed two checked bags in line with the local government regulations.



Quoting BALAX (Reply 89):
Let me give you some examples where it is already about that amount from some points in the US. LAX to CAI is about 190 dollars. LAX to anywhere in the Middle East is about the same. LAX to points in Nigeria, Uganda , South Africa is currently 220 dollars.

Well, which is it then? In one example it says that flights to the US will be allowed two checked bags because of the governmental regulations, in another example it says that departing the US to some destinations you have to pay for a second bag. Wouldn't any flight in or out of LAX be governed by the "local government regulations"?
International Homo of Mystery
 
BALAX
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:56 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:55 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 95):
Well, which is it then? In one example it says that flights to the US will be allowed two checked bags because of the governmental regulations, in another example it says that departing the US to some destinations you have to pay for a second bag. Wouldn't any flight in or out of LAX be governed by the "local government regulations"?

I think that means where govt regulations are applicable. Departing from the US to some destinations you have to pay for what?, where does it say that? All flights originating in the US will allow you to check in 2 pieces regardless of destination, like it has been for some time now. The only thing that's changing is the amount charged for anything over 2 pieces at 32kg each.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting BALAX (Reply 96):
Departing from the US to some destinations you have to pay for what?, where does it say that?

That's the question I was asking you. You made this post, didn't you?

Quoting BALAX (Reply 89):
Let me give you some examples where it is already about that amount from some points in the US. LAX to CAI is about 190 dollars. LAX to anywhere in the Middle East is about the same. LAX to points in Nigeria, Uganda , South Africa is currently 220 dollar
International Homo of Mystery
 
BALAX
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:56 pm

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:51 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 97):
That's the question I was asking you. You made this post, didn't you?

Point I was trying to make was that currently the excess baggage fee is comparable to what it will become, at least to some destinations. What is being standardized is the charge for short or long haul is going to be just one fixed charge, for instance, from the west coast in the US to LHR the excess baggage fee is USD140, hence this will see the greatest increase.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: BA To Charge Up To £240 For Second Bag!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting BALAX (Reply 98):
Point I was trying to make was that currently the excess baggage fee is comparable to what it will become, at least to some destinations

The figures you gave were entirely misleading, since BA is an IATA carrier, where 2 pieces are allowed under the weight system. For third bag charges, KLM has a PDF with example charges:

See: http://www.klm.com/travel/tw_en/imag...overbagage_en_4_3_tcm152-16377.pdf

For a 23kg third bag on KLM, the excess fee ranges from €225 to €655 depending upon destination. BA is now charging a discounted fee for a second bag, that should be free on IATA carriers. Hardly generous.
International Homo of Mystery

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