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juventus
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JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:10 pm

Just finished reading Boeing vs Airbus, by John Newhouse. On chapter 8, he talks about the A380 and LAX. He says LAX was expected to have the most A380 operations of any airport in the world, but the airport is not ready to handle the A380, and its not making good progress. He says since LAX is not meeting airline and passenger expectations, several airlines might send the aircraft somewhere else; thus JFK and SFO will benefit the most.


any comments???
 
28thguy
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:50 pm

Frankly seems like more of a problem to Airbus than LAX, to me. Airlines will provide capacity to meet passenger demand, using whatever aircraft make sense for the route/destination. There will be plenty of flights but with B777/A330/B777/B747/etc.
 
rjpieces
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:54 pm

I thought LAX agreed to make the changes necessary to accommodate the A380? Don't worry, I'm sure QF, VS and others will be operating their 380s there before long...

I don't know if SFO will "benefit," but I don't really see JFK benefiting from this per se...There are already many airlines that would probably operate the 380 to JFK independent of whether they are operating it to LAX--VS, AF, LH, and EK come to mind.
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BALAX
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:57 pm

I don't know what they are talking about. LAX is fixing up one of the runways to accomodate the A380 and gate 101 has already been upgraded to fit the A380 as well, in fact that jetway has a reputation for being somewhat uncontrollable, it jerks around a lot.
 
jacobin777
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:06 pm

SFO is "A380 ready"  biggrin , though it will cause some taxiway issues..

SQ might eventually move SQ 1/2 (SIN-HKG-SFO) to an A380....but that wouldn't be for a while...

All I have to say is "bring the Big Beast here"...I can't wait to see it arrive on the 28's or better yet, on the 1's (like the photo below).. yes 


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LAXintl
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:28 pm

Being able to handle the A380 is a non issue for LAX.

While the airport indeed dragged its feet wanting others to pony up the cost of modifications, by the time the A380 enters service there should be 8 A380 capable gates while runway and taxiway work will be complete as well.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
as739x
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:37 pm

Quoting BALAX (Reply 3):
I don't know what they are talking about. LAX is fixing up one of the runways to accomodate the A380 and gate 101 has already been upgraded to fit the A380 as well, in fact that jetway has a reputation for being somewhat uncontrollable, it jerks around a lot.

And 122-123A and 123B were closed last week to start A380 modifications. Should take 8 months from what I heard.

ASLAX
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manni
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:44 pm

Quoting Juventus (Thread starter):
He says LAX was expected to have the most A380 operations of any airport in the world,

How did he come to that conclusion?

IIRC, according to Mr. Leahy HKG, DXB, NRT and LHR (in no particular order) are expected to see the most A380 operations. with IIRC With LHR expected to see upto 65 daily A380s... How can LAX do better then that?
 
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gunsontheroof
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:54 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):

IIRC, according to Mr. Leahy HKG, DXB, NRT and LHR (in no particular order) are expected to see the most A380 operations. with IIRC With LHR expected to see upto 65 daily A380s... How can LAX do better then that?

I was wondering where that claim came from as well. DXB would seem to be the leader in daily A380 ops by a long shot as things stand now...
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
juventus
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:01 pm

If LAX looses any A380 flights due to airport authorities dragging their feet, well it will be a shame.....Newhouse got his information more than a year ago, so maybe things have changed, and LAX is on track by now.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Juventus (Thread starter):
Just finished reading Boeing vs Airbus, by John Newhouse. On chapter 8, he talks about the A380 and LAX. He says LAX was expected to have the most A380 operations of any airport in the world, but the airport is not ready to handle the A380, and its not making good progress. He says since LAX is not meeting airline and passenger expectations, several airlines might send the aircraft somewhere else; thus JFK and SFO will benefit the most.

LAX will be one of the most able airports to handle the 380. I dont know where he came to his conclusion. We already have a gate that is set to handle the A380. LAX is also in the process of updating runways so that the A380 can land and take off here. We will be very ready for the A380 once it comes around. I dont think JFK or SFO will "benefit" from LAX not being ready. First off, LAX will be ready, secondly JFK is a completely different market. LAX and JFK dont really compete with each other. SFO will see the A380 too im sure. SQ will probably send it there. At LAX, QF will proabably be the first to send it here. There are other possibilites like LH and AF, but I cant really bet on those.

For sure all three airports will see the A380 as soon as its out.
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airfrnt
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 2):
I thought LAX agreed to make the changes necessary to accommodate the A380? Don't worry, I'm sure QF, VS and others will be operating their 380s there before long...

LAX to some degree will never be the efficient airport that the carriers want it to be, simply because LAWA understands that frequency is king. Therefore LAWA is spreading it's apples to as many baskets and airports as possible. This negates the biggest reasons to expand LAX, and politically the will is just not there.

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):

IIRC, according to Mr. Leahy HKG, DXB, NRT and LHR (in no particular order) are expected to see the most A380 operations. with IIRC With LHR expected to see upto 65 daily A380s... How can LAX do better then that?

I believe that both SQ and QF gets their A380s well before VS, so the A380 at least initially will probably be more visible at LAX for a while. Once EK starts getting theirs DXB will pass it. I doubt NRT will ever see that many of them.
 
brucek
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
I can't wait to see it arrive on the 28's or better yet, on the 1's (like the photo below).

Do they ever land on the 19's? Seems that would be a steep descent, or sharp turn to short final, but does the wind ever make the 19's the only option? I recall taking off on the 19's once and had a real sharp left turn right after the 101.

Thanks, Bruce.
 
AADC10
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:52 am

Lack of A380 capable gates may limit the number of A380 flights, but the fact remains that nearly 1/3 of all U.S. passengers to Asia are from Southern California. SFO may take some flights but since the A380 has been delayed anyway, LAX will probably be ready mostly in time.

The reason airlines would want to switch to the A380 has as much to do with differentiating service as with matching capacity.
 
jacobin777
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting Brucek (Reply 12):

Do they ever land on the 19's? Seems that would be a steep descent, or sharp turn to short final, but does the wind ever make the 19's the only option? I recall taking off on the 19's once and had a real sharp left turn right after the 101.

There are a few times when planes arrive on the 19's, especially from November to spring.....

I think you are quite fortunate to take off from the 19's, as I've never heard of it, let alone seen it.....

Also, planes do arrive on the 10's during wind shifts....seen it a bunch of times...
"Up the Irons!"
 
rampguy
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:03 am

Before FedEx cancelled their 380 orders, MEM and IND would have probably have seen this aircraft. So it's not just the large airports like LAX, SFO, JFK, ORD, but the medium size ones as well.
 
aussie747
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:12 am

Given current airlines schedules and A380's deliveries QF looks like it will be the first carrier to offer RPT A380's into LAX. If so that means LAX has about 18 months to have it's airport A380 ready. Surely thats enough time?
 
jfk777
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:46 am

Why is the A380 and LAX such a saga ? Its the major Asia-Pacific airport in the country and Asian airlines will operate the beast even no USA airline ever will. Not preparing just shows how bad LAWA is, the site of the old TWA terminal should be turned into a brand new super jumbo capable international terminal for ONEWORLD airlines. Flights to Tokyo by USA airlines won't use it in the next ten years, they will fly 777, A330, 747's and 787's.

European airports have adopted for the A380, I can't find any reason USA airports shouldn't prepare for it. The major international airports on both coasts should prepare for it, the same list of European and Asia-Pacific airlines will fly the Whale Jet to California and JFK.
 
AirCop
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 16):
If so that means LAX has about 18 months to have it's airport A380 ready. Surely thats enough time?

You're dealing with Los Angeles city government. How many years have they known the A380 was coming and yet they are still not prepared but SFO is! Quite frankly LAX read that as the Tom Bradley Terminal is an embarssement for international travel.
 
aaway
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:07 am

LAX is indeed ready to accommodate the A380. For anyone interested, I have images of documents detailing TBIT NLA gates and maps depicting taxi routes for A380 airfield movements. Look on my A.net profile page for these items.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
ScottB
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:08 am

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 1):
Airlines will provide capacity to meet passenger demand, using whatever aircraft make sense for the route/destination.

 checkmark 

I still can't get over all the ludicrous posturing on this issue. Passengers who want to go to L.A. are going to fly into LAX. Are premium passengers going to add 2-3 hours to their travel time to make a connection in SFO simply because the A380 isn't flying into LAX? Is LAX's limited capacity better devoted to L.A.-originating-and-destined passengers or international connecting passengers?

It is better for LAX if surplus connecting traffic is offloaded to other facilities, period.
 
kaitak744
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:29 pm

Quoting Juventus (Thread starter):
but the airport is not ready to handle the A380, and its not making good progress.

NOT TRUE. LAX for your information will be ready for the A380 before the plane enters service (thanks to Airbus's delays).

Quoting Aaway (Reply 19):
LAX is indeed ready to accommodate the A380. For anyone interested, I have images of documents detailing TBIT NLA gates and maps depicting taxi routes for A380 airfield movements. Look on my A.net profile page for these items.

LAX may have an A380 gate, but the airport is still not physically ready. Quite a few taxiway turns and corners still need to be adjusted. But, they are coming along fine and will be ready in time. Plus, the A380 can not use the north air field to land, and hence the new runway on the south airfield is its only option, and that is still under construction.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 18):
You're dealing with Los Angeles city government. How many years have they known the A380 was coming and yet they are still not prepared but SFO is! Quite frankly LAX read that as the Tom Bradley Terminal is an embarssement for international travel.

SFO is ready because they built their international terminal while the A380 was in development, and hence made its gates NLA capable. Had they not built the new terminal, SFO would likely be dragging its feet as well.

Everybody knows that TBIT is a mess. It was built over 20 years ago. In opinion, it is in good shape for such an old facility.
 
aaway
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:57 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 21):
Plus, the A380 can not use the north air field to land...

It's anticipated that 24R will accept A380 arrivals in west flow. Look in my profile page for the image entitled "Anticipated A380 taxi routes - west traffic arrivals".

However, it's fair to say that LAX will never be a true Group VI airfield.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
manni
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:47 pm

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 11):
I believe that both SQ and QF gets their A380s well before VS, so the A380 at least initially will probably be more visible at LAX for a while. Once EK starts getting theirs DXB will pass it. I doubt NRT will ever see that many of them.

QF might send a total of 5 A380s a day to LAX. There are probably a few more operators who will send their A380 to LAX aswell, but it wont be more then a daily flight (CX and BA ordering the A380 could give LAX a good boost in A380 operations). LHR will see most likely 5 to 6 A380s from EK, 3 from QF, 3 from SQ , 2 from QR and atleast a daily flight from just about all the other airlines flying the passenger A380 (with the exception of AF and LH). NRT and HKG to will see most likely the A380 from just about any A380 operator, including those airlines based nearby (KE's, in between flights to Europe).

Perhaps someone can anser the following question as accurate s possible.
Who would see the most, based on today's orders and information from the airlines, excluding the home carrier?
 
andessmf
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting Aaway (Reply 22):
However, it's fair to say that LAX will never be a true Group VI airfield.

Are there going to be restrictions on other aircraft movements while the A380 is taxiing or taking off?
 
kaitak744
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 23):
Perhaps someone can anser the following question as accurate s possible.
Who would see the most, based on today's orders and information from the airlines, excluding the home carrier?

Definitely LHR, like you stated above. Emirates, Etihad, Malaysian, Qantas, Qatar, Singapore, and Thai could put in over 13 flights a day (and they are all not home carriers of LHR).

LAX: China Southern, Emirates, Korean Air, Singapore, Thai, Virgin Atlantic, Lufthansa, Qantas, and maybe Air France could bring in also up to 12 flights daily. (which, relating to discussion, will be NO PROBLEM since it would mean roughly 6 flights per gate per day given that there are 2 gates).

Quoting Manni (Reply 23):
NRT and HKG to will see most likely the A380 from just about any A380 operator, including those airlines based nearby (KE's, in between flights to Europe).

Keep in mind that soon, NRT will go from 1 full sized runway to 3 full sized runways. This will ease traffic and discard the need for some of the anticipated A380 flights.
 
aaway
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:21 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 24):
Are there going to be restrictions on other aircraft movements while the A380 is taxiing or taking off?

In a word - yes. The centerline-to-centerline distances of 25R / 7L to taxiway B, twy B to twy C, twy D to twy E, and twy E to 24L / 6R are such that most aircraft movements will be prohibited during A380 movements through these areas.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
andessmf
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:31 pm

Quoting Aaway (Reply 26):
The centerline-to-centerline distances of 25R / 7L to taxiway B, twy B to twy C, twy D to twy E, and twy E to 24L / 6R are such that most aircraft movements will be prohibited during A380 movements through these areas.

Uh-oh...
 
ZBA2CGX
Posts: 124
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:28 pm

Does anybody know which runways & taxiways the A380 will be using when it comes to ORD in march? Don't they already have some issues when the A340-500 is moving around the airfield.
 
juventus
Topic Author
Posts: 2017
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RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 18):
Quite frankly LAX read that as the Tom Bradley Terminal is an embarssement for international travel

I hate to admit this, but you are right. LAX is my home airport, but unfortunately this is a fact.
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2228
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: JFK, SFO To Benefit From LAX's A380 Troubles

Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting ZBA2CGX (Reply 28):
Don't they already have some issues when the A340-500 is moving around the airfield.

A340-500 at ORD?? who?

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