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N1120A
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:14 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 49):
If there was much money to be made on it, I'd have expected WN to start OAK-MCO long ago.

Remember, WN has 2 problems. 1) The aircraft they would fly would be the smallest in the market and 2) it would go against their general policy in all but a very few cases, that being a lack of true transcon flights other than to BWI.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 49):
The only nonstop SFO-South Florida service is on AA to Miami.

But that service is 3x per day, 2 757s and 1 767. That is a hell of a lot of capacity if you think about it.
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FCYTravis
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:21 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 50):
Remember, WN has 2 problems. 1) The aircraft they would fly would be the smallest in the market and 2) it would go against their general policy in all but a very few cases, that being a lack of true transcon flights other than to BWI.

PHL also has transcons to OAK and LAX. But your general point is true.

Two 757s and a 767 isn't really "a hell of a lot of capacity" when you consider that MIA is a major connecting hub for AA and that except for B6 OAK-FLL, it's the only available non-stop service to the Bay Area.

The only other non-stop Bay Area-Florida service at all is a daily United SFO-Orlando flight.

[Edited 2007-02-09 07:23:38]
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting N200WN (Reply 12):
Get out of the city I don't believe it...

You are you joking right? I don't think any new city announcement has ever been done at a message to the field.

Well I can't say anything concrete. I was not at the "Message". But, I can say I got flooded with text messages a couple of hours ago regarding this rumor that came from people that were there, or knew others that were there. Then I saw it posted here and apparently in another forum. So, something was said...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
stealth777
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:34 pm

from what I remember was that WN left SFO because of the weather issues we have here and how it will mess with their schedules. I would be very surprised if they come back and if they do I wonder if they would move away from their 20 min turns and make them longer at SFO to compensate for the weather.
 
B6WNQX
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:04 pm

Could this possibly be why they only announced 10 additional flights? In their past announcements they announce numerous new routes/flights. Sparks my interest for sure.
 
BrazilExPat
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:30 pm

Not rumor anymore! Just posted on our internal website. Its true folks!
 
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barney captain
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:56 pm

Friday, February 9, 2007

SWA Announces Intent to Return to SFO
Southwest today announced our intent to resume service at San Francisco International Airport. While we have not released specific service details or a timeline, we are currently in discussions with the Airport, and we aim to return to the West Bay in a meaningful way in the early fall.

“San Francisco International is the only major Bay Area airport we don’t currently serve, having made a very difficult decision in 2001 to cease service there after nearly 20 years,” said Gary. “Today, SFO has improved operationally and is a more cost-efficient airport, and Southwest is a far larger airline than it was in 2001 and better able to support this type of operation.”

We initiated service at SFO in October 1982 with four nonstop flights to LAS, with direct or connecting service to cities like HOU, ELP, ABQ, and AUS. At the time we ceased service on March 4, 2001, we had 14 nonstops to SAN and PHX.

“The business reasons for leaving San Francisco in 2001 were clear,” said Gary. “Back then, facility and runway constraints meant we could not compete and be profitable, and there was no growth potential beyond the 14 flights we had at the time. Frankly, we had demand at our other California airports that we knew would be successful. It made more sense to leave.

“The Airport Commission, under the leadership of Mayor Gavin Newsom and Commission President Larry Mazzola, has made SFO a more attractive venue for true low-fare carriers like Southwest. Working closely with SFO Director John L. Martin, Southwest was excited to learn of the constructive changes at SFO, so now it makes even more sense to return.”
Today’s announcement does not affect our commitment at OAK, where we have 142 daily departures; or SJC, where we have 76 daily departures.

“Similar to the Washington, D.C., metro area where we serve BWI and IAD; or the Los Angeles area where we serve LAX, ONT, BUR, and SNA; or the Boston metro area where we serve from PVD and MHT; the Bay Area is large enough to support complementary service from three airports. We’ve never questioned that.”

Stay tuned! We will release more details of our future service to SFO in the coming
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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SANFan
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:12 pm

I feel, like many others, that this will turn out to be an unfulfilled rumor. For one thing, I would expect if WN did return to SFO, it wouldn't be a small operation and their a/c are pretty much deployed thru mid-May anyway. (Of course they might not start SFO 'til Fall or later.) Also, as Scott said, Gary Kelly stated last year that there would probably be no new cities in 2007. I can't really believe he woke up a month ago and decided WN needed to return to SFO!

As far as if it happens to be true, as Scott also pointed out:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 48):
though SAN-SFO was flown up until SFO closed

Actually SAN flights comprised most of WN's SFO schedule (9 out of 14 flights); when SFO was shut down, most of those flights from SAN were dispersed to the other Bay-Area airports (plus SMF). (That was one of the reasons SAN-OAK flights now number 20/day.) I would expect WN to re-enter the SAN market seriously; they were not in the LAX market then and I would not expect them there now. (LAX's 12 gates, serving 118 flights, are much tighter right now than SAN's 10 handling 92 flights.)

The entry of AS into the SFO-SAN market late last year (thought at the time by me to be an effort to head off VX, F9 or even B6) might have a new basis now...

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 49):
If there was much money to be made on it, I'd have expected WN to start OAK-MCO long ago.

...or SAN-MCO with a daily O&D each way of 457 pax!

bb
 
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SANFan
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:37 pm

Boy do I look stupid! (That'll teach me to check for new posts before posting my own...)

Well, welcome back to the Golden Gate, Southwest! I can't wait to see what WN does with SFO. I still think they will return to SAN from there; maybe they'll move half a dozen of those SAN-OAK flights back to where they came from! I don't know the gate availability at SFO so it'll be interesting to see how many they get and what sized operation they plan.

This certainly does complicate the VX picture (if they get approved.) And all the other players as well...

bb
 
QXatFAT
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:50 pm

I think WN should stay out of SFO as well. There will be a lot of action going on at SFO then and thats tons of more traffic going out with WN's ideas. If they start up SFO, then maybe OAK and SJC will be seeing less loads? I would think not just because that is a HUGE metro area but then again, thats 3 airports so close to one another that will be seeing a lot of WN action.

If this does happen, could this be a move by WN to keep others out of California such as QX, AS, XJT, and F9? Say WN does go in and trys to do operations from SFO to SMF, FAT, LAX, ONT, BUR, SAN? Could even go after QX with operations down south and to PDX and SEA. That is just my opinion is that it can be a controlling the West Coast.
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QXatFAT
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:18 pm

Also forgot to add, if WN goes into SFO they would be adding a flight MDW I would think. How will this look with their partnership with AirTran Airways?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
copaair737
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:21 pm

I hope they add a SFO-TUL flight. That way I can fly to TUL n/s to do my fundraisers for Gary Bauer with the Rotary Club.
TUL-SFO....Let's Make it Happen!

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
cjpark
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:19 pm

Political favors being called in?

Remember the new Speaker of the House is from San Francisco.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
WN57787
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:16 pm

 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 62):
Political favors being called in?

Remember the new Speaker of the House is from San Francisco.

I wouldn't say political favors being called in, but it sure doesn't hurt WN politically in the future since the Speaker is from San Fran.
 
jacobin777
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 60):
Also forgot to add, if WN goes into SFO they would be adding a flight MDW I would think. How will this look with their partnership with AirTran Airways?

I assume you meant TZ?
"Up the Irons!"
 
chase
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:57 pm

This doesn't make sense, given that TZ just moved from SFO to OAK to allow connection traffic from WN...
 
Junction
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:17 pm

Now if they would resume IAH, all of the large markets would be restored from past pullouts.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:27 pm

So here are the questions I am asking..

*How does this affect F9's SAN-LAX flights? I'm sure WN will come in with at least 4x daily SFO-LAX..

*How would this affect B6 OAK-LGB?

*How would this affect WN OAK-SAN?

*What are the probable new routes? I"m thinking 4x LAX, 1x SLC, 2x SAN, 2x DEN, 1x SEA, 2x LAS, 2x PHX? with BWI, MCO, HOU, MDW, PHL coming next?

Added Information:

One last thought.. where will WN go next? ORD? MIA? JFK? HNL? CUN? They seem to be moving towards the top-tier airlines rather than their second tier strategy of yore...

[Edited 2007-02-09 15:36:33]
Aiming High and going far..
 
FATFlyer
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RE: WN To SFO!

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:57 pm

Here is the San Francisco newspaper coverage this morning, it should be no registration.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...?f=/c/a/2007/02/09/BUGG3O1FCI1.DTL

The paper says it will start back at the old level of 14 flights.

Southwest will go into Terminal 1.

SFO says it has been talking with WN for the last 18 months.

Costs at SFO are now 30% lower than when WN operated there previously and delays are very reduced.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Lumberton
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:06 am

Goodbye Virgin America. Maybe Branson can ally with Skybus and hub out of Columbus?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 70):
Goodbye Virgin America. Maybe Branson can ally with Skybus and hub out of Columbus?

Combining their resources will make the airline last twice as long.

There are several reasons for B6 and WN to start service at SFO, but one of them is definitely VirginAmerica. Maybe not the primary reason, but it did not hurt.

Even with the Virgin name, the combined resources of Virgin and SkyBus, WN, B6, US, DL, AA, CO, NW, UA will make CMH a great place to live for airline travel for a few months.

In hindsight, all these airlines regret not making JFK a focus city 7 or 8 years ago. B6 knows this too. There will not be another mistake like that and now that B6 is a player, let the games begin, erg, continue.

M
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:45 am

Wow, I must say I was surprised when I heard this through my Rapid Rewards email. Anyway, what is funny is who would have thought last year that both B6 and WN would be serving SFO? I still wish WN would start LGA/JFK/EWR, their obvious whole in the network.
 
burnsie28
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:46 am

How much longer till United, and the rest of them decide to slow down their taxi speed a bit.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 70):
Goodbye Virgin America.

You can say that again.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 73):
How much longer till United, and the rest of them decide to slow down their taxi speed a bit.

This isn't 1978. WN doesn't perform 20 minute turns anymore.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
adizzy
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:53 am

Hey....Didnt b6 just do this?
 
ssides
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:58 am

I've always liked WN, enjoy flying them, and admire their business model.

However, if it's true that they're re-starting SFO (after launching PHL, DEN, IAD, etc.), I will be very, very disappointed that they have not taken the opportunity to move to DFW. Our airport, one of the best facilities in the world IMHO, is struggling a bit, but the addition of WN would be a tremendous boost to the airport, its airlines, area passengers, and the region as a whole.

I know WN has been successful at DAL, and I completely understand the hesitance to tinker with such success. However, WN's opportunities from DFW are much less restricted than they are from DAL. They've shown they can compete with US in PHL and UA in DEN. Why not AA at DFW?

Of course, they have avoided serious competition with DL at ATL and CVG. They've also avoided ORD and MIA. No WN service at MSP or MEM either. Does WN simply see AA, DL and NW as stronger competitors than the likes of UA and US?

Just curious.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
SJCRRPAX
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 59):
If they start up SFO, then maybe OAK and SJC will be seeing less loads?

Yes to a certain extent, but I suspect because of landing fees the SFO flights will have a slight premium. I am also expecting mostly non residents to use SFO, the majority of the Bay Area population lives closer to either OAK or SJC and are not going to go to SFO. The total air traffic will not change so UA should lose some PAX's out of SFO as well as WN at OAK and SJC. WN just added new flights from SJC to Chicago, Las Vegas and Burbank. Long term SFO will end up slot restricted and SJC and OAK will really grow when that happens.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:12 am

Anyone think that WN or UA will finally at RDU-SFO service since there are over 600 daily pax between RDU and the BAY area? Or perhaps someone out of right field? Like perhaps F9 starting RDU-DEN/SFO?
Aiming High and going far..
 
SJCRRPAX
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 33):
Maybe this means FAT?

Pretty soon you guys will be the biggest city without WN. Fresno, the only city I know that gets less respect than San Jose. Horizon should bring in a bunch of those cool prop planes and start service up and down the state. I can't believe how overlooked is Fresno. I guess its a victim of geography, too close to LA and the Bay Area to have good air service, but too far away to make the trips quick by car.
 
surfdog75
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:27 am

It'll be interesting to see how things go for SWA in the future. They had a very large competitive advantage for a very long time with costs much lower than the legacies. Now most legacies have restructured and have costs near SWA with a better product to offer (IFE, food, non-stop flights etc) and their massive fuel hedge advantages are disappearing. I don't think they fear SWA like they used to. I wouldn't be surprised to see airlines coming after them again in the near future instead of running away.

That being said, there is no better management in the industry and they may find a way to take competitiveness to the next level. We'll see.
 
cpharris5514
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:07 am

Well, the story was just posted in the Commercial Aviation News section a few minutes ago. Here's a direct link:

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedconten...21007dnbussouthwestsf.4254dd0.html

Looks like the rumor may turn into truth . . .  Smile
From rural Carlisle, Iowa
 
skoker
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:14 am

Those subscribed to the Rapid Report should have found out this morning (my apoligies if this was already posted)

Quote:
Dear Rapid Rewards Member:

Big News!
We wanted you to be among the first to know that we’re bringing our legendary low fares and Positively Outrageous Service back to San Francisco, California! We couldn’t be more thrilled to have San Francisco International Airport become our 64th airport in 32 states making it even easier for you to move about the country on Southwest Airlines.
Service is scheduled to start this fall, so stay tuned for more details in the coming months...

 
MaverickM11
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting Ssides (Reply 76):
I know WN has been successful at DAL

I'm curious how successful they really are at DAL; I think if they had to start over quite a bit of the DAL service would not exist.

Quoting Ssides (Reply 76):
they have avoided serious competition with DL at ATL and CVG. They've also avoided ORD and MIA. No WN service at MSP or MEM either

At least with respect to ATL, CVG, and MEM, these are some of the most overserved markets in the country.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
S12PPL
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:46 am

Everyone's forgetting little 'ol PDX.

I'd expect PDX to be in the mix for their first markets out of SFO.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:14 am

It's definitely true. I just received an email from Southwest (sent out to all Rapid Rewards Members) announcing their (re)entry into the SFO market.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 16):
GEG seems unlikely, at least early on. LAS, PHX, sure. MDW? BWI? BNA? Or maybe DENVER?

Why not LAX? From my understanding, LAX-SFO is one of the busiest O&D markets in the country. I'd be truly shocked if WN didn't offer some sort of service on this route.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 83):
At least with respect to ATL, CVG, and MEM, these are some of the most overserved markets in the country.

CVG? Probably.
MEM? Maybe
ATL? Overrated. I think you're wrong on that one.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:23 am

How much longer till United, and the rest of them decide to slow down their taxi speed a bit.

Has US done this at PHL? If so, it certainly hasn't driven WN out.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
SWAFA27
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:24 am

One can wonder that when this was officially announced that the folks over at UA and Virgin America both said "CRAP!!!!"  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co
 
QXatFAT
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:24 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 65):
I assume you meant TZ?

Yes sorry. I always cant figure out what name is which. Thanks for correcting me.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 79):
I can't believe how overlooked is Fresno.

Yes Fresno is overlooked a lot. But, WN might be interested more now just because the City of Fresno is offering $30,000 to $60,000 to any airline that comes in with new destinations or current airlines that start up new service. I believe it is waving all landing fees for the first 120 days. So Express Jet will be getting that with there new service to ONT and SAN starting in April and May. So with this news, maybe WN will be interested and start up services to OAK, SMF, MDW, DAL, PHX as the new routes will still continuing PHX, LAS, PDX, LAX that are already served by other airlines.

My predictions for flights out of SFO:

LAX, PDX, ONT, SAN, PHX, LAS, SLC, DEN, MDW, DAL, SEA
Don't Tread On Me!
 
KELPkid
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 84):
Everyone's forgetting little 'ol PDX.

I'd expect PDX to be in the mix for their first markets out of SFO.

I'm sure both UA and AS would take that very seriously.

Got to admit, I've never really unserstood the typical Portlander's affinity for the legacies, but when you get to know them, you figure out that for many of them a short weekend trip goes somewhere in California...I think AS has a cult following here in PDX land  Wink Whenever I fly, the line at the UA check-in counter is usually wrapping around the corner towards security, too.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
OPNLguy
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 88):
My predictions for flights out of SFO:

LAX, PDX, ONT, SAN, PHX, LAS, SLC, DEN, MDW, DAL, SEA

You won't be seeing SFO-DAL for another 8 years or so....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 88):
My predictions for flights out of SFO:

LAX, PDX, ONT, SAN, PHX, LAS, SLC, DEN, MDW, DAL, SEA

Narrow that list down since they will only be starting with 14 flights. And, aren't they maxed out at LAX. I'm not convinced LAX will be one of the initial markets.

My guess would be: ONT, SAN, PHX, LAS; and one or two of these: MDW, PDX, SEA, DEN.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 88):
OAK, SMF, MDW, DAL, PHX as the new routes will still continuing PHX, LAS, PDX, LAX that are already served by other airlines.

WN has never and will never open a city with that many destinations. Nor are they likely to serve such short intrastate hops as FAT-OAK/SMF.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 88):
My predictions for flights out of SFO:

LAX, PDX, ONT, SAN, PHX, LAS, SLC, DEN, MDW, DAL, SEA

Again, with 14 initial daily flights, you'll see maybe three or four destinations at the most. LAS, MDW, LAX and PHX are shoo-ins.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 79):
Pretty soon you guys will be the biggest city without WN.

Getting closer.

When WN stayed away from the large airports FAT was near the top of potential midsized markets.

Right now, depending upon how you define some of the market areas, there are about 10 population centers larger then Fresno without WN. Mainly that would be the hub cities like ATL, MSP, MEM, CVG, CLT, etc. Then some 2nd tier areas similiar in size to Fresno.

But the Central Valley's population and economic numbers are growing faster then many other areas. Fresno County's population alone grew by 15% between 2000 and 2006.

Annual unemployment went down from 13.6% in 1999 to about 8% in 2006.

That is a lot of new job growth to reduce unemployment that much while simultaneously adding 120,000 new residents.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 79):
Horizon should bring in a bunch of those cool prop planes and start service up and down the state.

Or Frontier. It would be a nice addition to their western strategy.

At least XJT added FAT. More airline announcements should be coming this year or next also.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
ScottB
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RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting Ssides (Reply 76):
However, WN's opportunities from DFW are much less restricted than they are from DAL. They've shown they can compete with US in PHL and UA in DEN. Why not AA at DFW?

Well, part of the problem with DFW is that the airport just dropped around $2 billion on facilities that have absolutely no benefit to WN (the SkyLink train and Terminal D) and that largely only benefit American Airlines at the expense of every other airline serving the airport. And yet, every airline at DFW is forced to support the higher costs associated with those facilities. In my opinion, it is abundantly clear that the DFW Airport Board acts almost exclusively to further the interests of AA. DFW's troubles are of its own making.

Going back to SFO, I remain convinced that Southwest would not have left SFO if they had waited another year or so; United dramatically scaled back service from SFO in the wake of 9/11 and the dot-com bust. They offer roughly half the number of SFO-LAX flights today that they offered in 2000. United's domestic mainline presence at SFO is down by 35-40% over 2000.

And frankly, they're somewhat limited by gate availability at OAK and SJC in the near term, while SFO has an entire mothballed terminal. I do think this is also targeted at Virgin America, given its announcement of plans to serve LAX, SAN, and LAS -- WN's three largest markets (including all L.A.-area markets under LAX) from OAK.

The biggest losers stand to be United and Virgin America (for obvious reasons), as well as US Airways, if WN holds true to form and serves PHX and LAS from SFO. As for F9's LAX-SFO route, I'm not entirely sure it could do much worse.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5180
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 92):
Nor are they likely to serve such short intrastate hops as FAT-OAK/SMF.

In previous discussions with Fresno, WN seemed to be interested in short hops out of FAT like to LAX and/or OAK along with longer flights.

2 simple reasons, connections to other flights at OAK and LAX and the high price of fares for people flying out of FAT to the Bay Area and Southern California.

A similiar hop to FAT-OAK would be ORF-BWI. Norfolk pax then can connect to many other cities.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:21 am

I've often heard WN terminated service at SFO because of congestion delays often caused by marine fog moving in from the pacific ocean.

Although the technology is still very expensive, Required Navigation Performance (RNP) GPS technology which was pioneered by Alaska Airlines is now available factory installed on Boeing aircraft at the customers request.

Possibly WN has purchased a few  airplane   airplane  with the technology thus allowing their return to SFO. The technology is suppose to put a aircraft on a dime with pin point accuracy within the slightest if any deviation

SFO, DCA, JNU, and I think COS are a handful of airports which are equipped to land aircraft using RNP/GPS.

A WN blogger posted an article about the technology and how it works on WN blog spot.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5553
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:35 am

I still stand by remarks I made earlier in this thread:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 57):
(When WN left SFO in April of 2001) SAN flights comprised most of WN's SFO schedule (9 out of 14 flights. The other 5 were to PHX)...I would expect WN to re-enter the SAN market seriously; they were not in the LAX market then and I would not expect them there now. (LAX's 12 gates, serving 118 flights, are much tighter right now than SAN's 10 handling 92 flights.)

The entry of AS into the SFO-SAN market late last year (thought at the time by me to be an effort to head off VX, F9 or even B6) might have a new basis now...

And of course there's F9's recent build-up in SFO to think about as well.

If indeed WN is going to restart SFO with about 14 flights, I predict SAN, LAS and PHX, about 5 flights each. That way, they will get right back into where they left off 6 years ago and quickly tie SFO into the rest of their route network with connections via LAS and PHX.

I predict they will pull some OAK-SAN flights, essentially moving them across the Bay (to where they came from originally) and negating the need for new a/c. Heck, maybe they'll do the same with OAK-LAS and OAK-PHX flights as well meaning they will not need a single new plane for the start-up.

If WN ever gets started with CA-DEN service, I would expect OAK (no F9 competition) and SAN but SFO would surprise me -- 2 UA hubs with LOTS of service plus a heavy dose of F9 as well. Maybe once DEN is more of a "hub-ish" WN station, we will see them fly to SFO.

bb
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:38 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 96):
I've often heard WN terminated service at SFO because of congestion delays often caused by marine fog moving in from the pacific ocean.

True, and that's back when SFO had only ILSes on 28L and 28R. SWA doesn't do RNP quite yet, but one thing that's helped the delay situation since we pulled out was the introduction of PRM approaches. There's a ILS PRM 28L (200-1/2) and a LDA PRM 28R (1200-4), and that means they can have 2 arrival runways in use longer and more often then when the old "trigger" of losing visual approaches (2550-5) was tripped.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
iahflyer
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:34 pm

RE: WN To SFO!

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 90):
My predictions for flights out of SFO:

HOU anyone!!!
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd

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