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HUYguy
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Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:10 am

Hey.

I was just wondering if anyone knew what the world's busiest airspace was.

My guess would be London or New York with the amount of airports in the area with a lot of movements. But as I say that is just a guess.

Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.

Shane
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:14 am

Directly above any high speed car chase in L.A. California  Smile
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EGBJ
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:33 am

Washington must get a bit clustered as well  Smile
 
Kevin777
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
Directly above any high speed car chase in L.A. California

That's true... and not only choppers, planes must be filling up, too: LAX, LGB, SNA, BUR, ONT plus a few smaller airports. LA is spread out, but still, one major international airport and four important domestic airports; it all adds up...

But other than that I reckon London (five airports nicely spread out) and NYC (especially between LGA and JFK)

Kevin777
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TransWorldSTL
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting HUYguy (Thread starter):
My guess would be London or New York with the amount of airports in the area with a lot of movements. But as I say that is just a guess.

I think I've heard from on here, as well as from an aviation department at a local college, that the New York area's airspace is the busiest in the world..
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 4):
I think I've heard from on here, as well as from an aviation department at a local college, that the New York area's airspace is the busiest in the world..

As a private pilot in the NE region I have always been told that it is the NYC region.
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:02 am

Its London, followed by either NYC or Tokyo (can't remember which)
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bond007
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
Its London,

It's certainly not London. Although the individual airports in NYC may not be the busiest, the airspace above and around NYC most certainly is the busiest in the world.



Jimbo

[Edited 2007-02-13 19:13:19]
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
gh123
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:25 am

If not London then I'd say the South of England period.....all that airpace (which isn't really that big) would certainly have the highest density of aircraft than anywhere in the world.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
Its London, followed by either NYC or Tokyo (can't remember which)

It is not London.  no 

The three airports serving New York City JFK, LGA and EWR handled over 100 million passengers in 2006, making it the busiest airspace in the country, Add the other 2 major airports in that area... BOS and IAD plus the (16) satellite airports within that 31,000 square-mile area that stretches from Delaware to Connecticut and that is alot of traffic. More than anywhere else in the world.

You want to expand it?

Northeast Triangle from Chicago to Boston to Washington, DC. is the busiest in the world.

All the documents and shows on 9/11 even state that it is the busiest in the world and that it was an amazing task of the FAA and all the ATC in that region to land so many planes in such a short time frame w/o (1) incident.

[Edited 2007-02-13 19:28:18]
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echster
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:58 am

In the US, the NYC and LA metro areas are by far the busiest. And while I work ATC in SoCal, and like to think we work hard, I know the ATC folks in NYC work harder. Last year SoCal TRACON worked 2.14 million IFR approaches, the most in the world, while NY TRACON worked 2.09 million. However, SCT's airspace covers roughly 200 miles while N90's is roughly 60 miles.
 
planesarecool
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:07 am

It depends whether you're talking about the busiest Class A airspace, or the busiest airspace for departures/arrivals. For Class A, it would probably somewhere around the Midwest/Northeast USA. For airport movements, I'd say it would have to be the LA area.

Average daily movements:

Avalon: 63
Burbank: 385
Cable: 252
Camarillo: 420
Chino: 436
Compton: 181
Corona: 186
El Monte: 392
Flabob Riverside: 110
Fullerton: 222
Jack Northrop Field/Hawthorne: 220
Long Beach: 981
Los Angeles (LAX): 1793
Ontario: 419
Oxnard: 279
Palmdale: 178
Rialto: 82
Riverside: 280
San Bernadino: 180
Santa Ana: 959
Santa Barbara: 579
Santa Monica: 452
Torrance/Zamperini Field: 473
Van Nuys: 1381
Whiteman: 295

Total: 11198 movements per day (average). That is over quite a large area, however that is a lot of aircraft ascending and descending throughout the airspace
 
airportplan
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
Northeast Triangle from Chicago to Boston to Washington, DC. is the busiest in the world.

To be more specific the middle of this triangle is Cleveland Center which is the busiest FAA center and probably the busiest center in the world.
 
greenair727
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:25 am

The FAA's Cleveland ATRCC i heard is the busiest air traffic center in the world, as it handles Cleveland, Detroit, and Pittsburgh, as well as all NY-Chicago traffic, as well as any other traffic crossing the area.
 
daus
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting HUYguy (Thread starter):
I was just wondering if anyone knew what the world's busiest airspace was.

Oshkosh WI (for one week a year).  Smile
 
pdxcof9
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:32 am

just check out flightaware and the map in the upper right corner http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KEWR blue ones are to/from EWR and green are in the vicinity. It's crazy how many planes are passing the NYC area!!
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mutu
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:39 am

well whilst airport movements do give a clue, airspace is something quite different. The airways around the wrorld are predetermined routes, literally highways in ths sky that all traffic has to follow. I seem to recall that the worlds busiest air corridor was actually across the english channel between the south of england/london, and france. All transatlantic traffic passes through this corridor en route to/from europe/north america plus of course all eastbound departures from londons 5 airportsc and all westbound inbound traffic to the 5 london airports.

so hether you are flying from any north american city to pretty much any continental european city it all squeezes through the corridor with all of Londons traffic. also dont forget Paris, Amsterdam and Brussels are within 50 minutes of London
 
tonyban
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
Directly above any high speed car chase in L.A. California

Airfoilsguy....that's was very funny !!!! You probably right as well  Smile
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:44 am

This is one of those questions that can't be answered easily. Depends on the square mileage, etc. and how much ATC coverage. My guess would be that the New York metropolitan area would be the busiest by far, since you are not only talking about airports serving that area, but traffic overflying as well. I recall flying DAL-BDL in a corporate jet in the early 90's, I'm guessing FL250 maybe, directly over JFK, and could see countless a/c buzzing about below us in all directions. We didn't begin descent until well out over Long Island turning north to Connecticut.
 
mutu
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:46 am

well whilst airport movements do give a clue, airspace is something quite different. The airways around the wrorld are predetermined routes, literally highways in ths sky that all traffic has to follow. I seem to recall that the worlds busiest air corridor was actually across the english channel between the south of england/london, and france. All transatlantic traffic passes through this corridor en route to/from europe/north america plus of course all eastbound departures from londons 5 airportsc and all westbound inbound traffic to the 5 london airports.

so hether you are flying from any north american city to pretty much any continental european city it all squeezes through the corridor with all of Londons traffic. also dont forget Paris, Amsterdam and Brussels are within 50 minutes of London
 
N1120A
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 3):
plus a few smaller airports.

A few? Take a look at Planesarecool's list and add Brackett with 463, Agua Dulce, Santa Paula, Lancaster as well as Pt. Mugu NAS and any others we may have missed.

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 4):
that the New York area's airspace is the busiest in the world..

New York's is definately the most crowded, though not just because of aircraft. The buildings (as made painfully clear with the Lidle crash) play a huge part in the difficulty.

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 11):
Camarillo: 420

Camarillo is actually underreported.
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bond007
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting Echster (Reply 10):
In the US, the NYC and LA metro areas are by far the busiest. And while I work ATC in SoCal, and like to think we work hard, I know the ATC folks in NYC work harder. Last year SoCal TRACON worked 2.14 million IFR approaches, the most in the world, while NY TRACON worked 2.09 million. However, SCT's airspace covers roughly 200 miles while N90's is roughly 60 miles.

Yes, it's NYC no doubt. The figures for approaches above, also do not include all the stuff flying over NYC area (ie not landing/departing) NYC area airport.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
1stfl94
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
Directly above any high speed car chase in L.A. California

And the amount doubles when a celeb is involved!!!
 
LASoctoberB6
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:20 am

what about ATL's airspace?
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micstatic
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:20 am

also can't forget teterboro. If it's not NY, then maybe LA, but I can't see how London could compare to that.
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10Driver
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 7):
It's certainly not London. Although the individual airports in NYC may not be the busiest, the airspace above and around NYC most certainly is the busiest in the world.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
New York's is definately the most crowded, though not just because of aircraft

Hmmmm... if you're talking purely about operations conducted, or handled, maybe. But I spent a lot of time flying around NY airspace (McGuire AFB is right underneath it) and never really noticed it. Those have to be some of the finest controllers anywhere!

For my money, flying in and out of Frankfurt was always the craziest flying... mutiple accents, and runways in use, with all the planes getting marshalled into waht seems to be a very small chunk of airspace. Arrivals do some sort of figure-8 over the final approach course, while talking to the same controller (at least they did...it's been about a year since I've been there). Definietly some of the busiest flying I've ever seen. But that's only my humble opinion.
 Big grin
 
dartland
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 am

I believe it is NYC. If you figure how tight a metro area it is compared to LA (or most any other), I would imagine it has by far the most planes per square mile in a day.
 
10Driver
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:55 am

Quoting Dartland (Reply 26):
I believe it is NYC. If you figure how tight a metro area it is compared to LA (or most any other), I would imagine it has by far the most planes per square mile in a day.

Well, I would imagine it's worst when all 3 airports are using Rwy 4 arrivals, as Philadelphia airspace constrains them to the West, so all arrivals have to line up abeam each other over NJ and the Atlantic Ocean. Otherwise, JFK has all the airspace over the adjacent Atlantic, EWR has NJ and northern PA and LGA can work arrivals over CT and Long Island. Not that I think it's quite THAT simple, but I think they have plenty of room to work with.
 
WN230
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
Directly above any high speed car chase in L.A. California

Hahahahahah . . . and if you're lucky enough, you can see it on the 5 o'clock news.  Wink
Judas Priest North American tour in '08 . . . cannot wait!!!
 
bakersdozen
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:57 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
the documents and shows on 9/11 even state that it is the busiest in the world and that it was an amazing task of the FAA and all the ATC in that region to land so many planes in such a short time frame w/o (1) incident.

That's because all incoming planes were turned away and forced to land in Canada at various airports. That would have freed up a ton of space.
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:58 am

I live in Poughkeepsie, New York and apparently a plane comes over every two-five minutes.
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BAalltheway
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:38 am

I know it's a Hollywood source, but anyone seen the movie Pushing Tin?

According to this movie with ATC of TRACON as the major backstory, New York is the busiest airspace in the world.

I would imagine it would be anyway. Someone mentioned LaGuardia and JFK, but Newark is crazy busy as well, then there's the minor airports that service some of the executive traffic...and the chopper traffic in the New York area isn't exactly light.

Something else to keep in mind, aside from having two major international airports, these are all Major Airline hubs, for some of the largest airlines in the world....alll of them. Can't say that about LA or London....sure, they are hubs as well, but not on the same scale as the New York area...
 
AceMcCool99
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:06 am

The Atlantic Ocean with eastbound traffic at about 0300Z can be pretty busy!
 
777law
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:25 am

Has to be NYC / the East Coast corridoor of the US -- as noted elsewhere, the number of major airports / hubs in the region is incredible -- IAD, BWI, PHL, EWR, JFK, BOS, not to mention DCA and LGA, Hartford, Albany, etc. all in a space of what? maybe 350 - 400 miles. . I'd be hard pressed to think of any other area with such a concentration of major national and international hubs.

I think extending the circle west to ORD and south to ATL only reinforces the point. With that you include PIT, CVG, CLE, DET, CLT, MEM and so on.

No doubt about it, the Eastern US has the busiest airspace.
If its not a Boeing I ain't going
 
bakersdozen
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting 777law (Reply 33):
I think extending the circle west to ORD and south to ATL only reinforces the point. With that you include PIT, CVG, CLE, DET, CLT, MEM and so on.

And up to Toronto (YYZ)
 
b52murph
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:31 am

Several years back I did quite a bit of private (Cessna, etc.) flying between New England and the Carolinas--often on an IFR flight plan. Filed route with ATC involved the V1 airway from somewhere around Bridgeport VOR to points south of ORF. Invariably, we would have to make a second radio request to ATC to actually fly the V1 airway (which goes directly over JFK VOR) instead of a somewhat-out-of-the-way airway which went way out over LI sound and the Atlantic.

When we approached the New York TCA (OK, dating myself here), the handoff would usually go..."Cessna XXX change to frequency 12X.X and monitor, (don't call us, we'll call you)" rather than "Contact New York Approach on xxx.x." Just like clockwork, about 1-2 minutes after changing frequencies, New York Approach would come over the radio and say.."Cessna XXX, New York Approach, squwak ident and standby....." and with that the controller would then contact another aircraft. If we were transiting the airspace between, say, 1500 and 1900hrs, we could take a whole series of handoffs that way and never actually talk to the controller; only using the Transponder ident for the controller to know we were receiving his calls.

Even if we had wanted to get a word in edgewise, it would have been challenging with the (at the time), endless calls of "TWA XXX heavy, cleared ILS 4 Right," "Speedbird XXX Heavy turn left xxx," and "Clipper XXX heavy, contact Kennedy Tower on 119.1."

Only once we were south of JFK, did the handoff go..."Cessna xxx, contact McGuire approach on 1XX.X, so long."

I never heard that type of ATC communication anywhere else...
 
caribbean484
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:56 am

I was told that NYC area has the busiest airspace in the world.
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b741
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:12 pm

Charlotte Center must be right up there. I believe they are the highest paid controllers. Not sure if pay rates parallel busy skies.
Being Bilingual, I Speak English And Aviation
 
jm017
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:17 pm

I have heard that New York's airspace is the busiest in the world.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
N231YE
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:23 pm

I have heard that the Cleveland ARTCC is the busiest in the United States, due to the twin Triangles formed between ORD, ATL, BOS, and DTW, JFK, EWR, thereby making it the densest airspace in the United States.
 
blueskies8
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:31 pm

I fly in the NYC metro area frequently and have flown around London and LA many times as well. I am not sure what the figures are accept what I have seen posted here on this topic, but I have to say that my perspective from the flight deck is that the the NYC metro area, hands down, has the busiest airspace in the world. It became even more apparent with the advent of TCAS. It is absolutely mind boggling to think about all the aircraft that we use to never see. The New York approach controllers are some of the finest in the world and I always enjoy working with them.
 
ABpositive
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:36 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
The three airports serving New York City JFK, LGA and EWR handled over 100 million passengers in 2006, making it the busiest airspace in the country, Add the other 2 major airports in that area... BOS and IAD plus the (16) satellite airports within that 31,000 square-mile area that stretches from Delaware to Connecticut and that is alot of traffic. More than anywhere else in the world.

You want to expand it?

Northeast Triangle from Chicago to Boston to Washington, DC. is the busiest in the world.

An area of this size would also cover the London-Paris-Amsterdam regions.
 
OpsGuy
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:41 pm

I was out at NY Center in January for a customer meeting. They explained that the NY Center and NY Tracon Airpspace is the busiest in the world. You have 3 major airports, EWR, JFK, LGA. Then aside from those you have:

TEB
CDW
MMU
FRG
ISP
HPN
SWF

And the other half a dozen or so GA airports like Orange County, Sussex, Lincoln Park, Gabreski, etc. Plus you have the north/south traffic flying overhead and the east west traffic.

On a side note, they explained that out of all the commercial service airports in the U.S., 7 of those make up 79% of all the delays in the system, 3 of those are JFK, EWR, LGA and they make up 38% of the delays. The others are ATL, IAH, PHL, and ORD with 41%.

As for overall traffic at the 3 big NY area airports, EWR was down 1% in 2006, LGA was down 3% and JFK was up 24%. JFK's increase was attributed to the increase in domestic flights by Jet Blue and others.
Is this the Delta House?
 
echster
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:30 pm

Rank Facility.....................Deps Overflts Total

1 ZTL - Atlanta............. 1154210 827029 3135449

2 ZNY - New York....... 1112756 744971 2970483

3 ZDC - Washington.... 1011405 883776 2906586

4 ZOB - Cleveland....... 817573 1243702 2878848

5 ZAU - Chicago.......... 1095855 653567 2845277

6 ZID - Indianapolis........638558 1416432 2693548

7 ZJX - Jacksonville.......865771 825939 2557481

8 ZMA - Miami............ 961487 583902 2506876

9 ZLA - Los Angeles..... 1037342 241166 2315850

10 ZME - Memphis........ 582346 1123326 2288018

11 ZFW - Dallas........... 761342 636822 2159506

12 ZHU - Houston......... 884910 374280 2144100

13 ZMP - Minneapolis... 689520 694457 2073497

14 ZKC - Kansas City.... 575802 898875 2050479

15 ZDV - Denver........... 527448 809934 1864830

16 ZBW - Boston.......... 766440 323331 1856211

17 ZAB - Albuquerque... 559288 611383 1729959

18 ZOA - Oakland......... 625051 446095 1696197

19 ZLC - Salt Lake........ 419765 665618 1505148

20 ZSE - Seattle........... 594054 112861 1300969

21 ZAN - Anchorage....... 226048 126393 578489

22 ZUA - Guam............ 42293 157630 242216
 
Bohlman
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:02 pm

Quoting Mutu (Reply 19):

Well, except for the fact that overflying traffic isn't really that time intensive.

LH 744: "LH 744 Heavy checking in 360"
Center: "roger LH 744 heavy"
Center : "LH 744 heavy contact xxx center 125.25"
LH 744: "2525 for LH 744 heavy, gday"

And that's pretty much it, especially since everything is pretty much well spaced at that point, so you don't have to worry about that (every once in a while you'll get a "center, LH744 heavy, how do the rides ahead look?"). Vectors, clearances, traffic spacing, weather advisories, comm switches, etc etc etc all are much more "busy" than a whole bunch of transatlantics going from one side of the screen to the other.
I'm not pro-Boeing or pro-Airbus, I'm pro-crew all the way.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:48 pm

I would guess greater Los Angeles and the Boston/New York/Washington DC corridor. Outside of the USA, I would guess the airspace above the English Channel.

Total guesses. No references.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 12):
To be more specific the middle of this triangle is Cleveland Center which is the busiest FAA center and probably the busiest center in the world.

Thanks man... I knew I've heard that name in my A&E 9/11/01 dvd sets.

Quoting Bakersdozen (Reply 29):
That's because all incoming planes were turned away and forced to land in Canada at various airports. That would have freed up a ton of space.

Intl and incoming flights to the N. America i'm sure... In the triangle I doubt... I believe they just landed them at whatever airport they are closes to.

Quoting ABpositive (Reply 41):
An area of this size would also cover the London-Paris-Amsterdam regions.

Ok you could be right... It does not see more air traffic that the area I stated. I researched my facts... So if you can show we that the area you state has more then please do so.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
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centrair
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RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:02 pm

Just above the US Capital is the busiest Airspace in the world. Not by aircraft but by BS that flies around there.  Smile
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
HBJZA
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:23 pm

RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:05 pm

Skyguide in Switzerland tend to say that Switzerland is the most congested airspace in Europe. It's due to the fact that Switzerland is in the heart of Europe and most of the flights crossing Europe or going to almost any destination in Europe from almost anywhere crosses Swiss airspace. Can anyone confirm or should we believe what skyguide says ? Here is the link : then you can navigate through the site, especially facts and figures on the left...

http://www.skyguide.ch/en/AboutSkyguide/
 
onetogo
Posts: 286
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: Busiest Airspace In The World?

Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:05 pm

Quoting B741 (Reply 37):
Charlotte Center must be right up there.

If you're talking about the U.S. there is no Charlotte Center.

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