Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
764
Topic Author
Posts: 502
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2001 6:34 pm

Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:56 am

Looking at MSP on Google Maps, I noticed that it seems like Northwest uses almost all the gates and all other carriers share what once used to be the Blue Concourse (I forgot what it's called now). I could not think of another airport that is this heavily dominated by one carrier, although maybe ATL and DFW could be second runners up. But it does seem that there you'd find more alternative carriers, both domestic and foreign.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7716
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:06 am

What benchmark do you want to use a comparison???
# of flights, ASM's, RPM's, gates, % of O & D traffic, passenger count, etc, etc, etc.

There are some metrics that would say it is, there are some that would say it isn't. And where do you draw the line, only out of airports of a certain size? You could say that LBE is the most dominated, since 100% of their traffic in on NW. (2 total flights overall.)

Common A.net myth #4452 is that MSP is the single most dominated airport in the USA. When in fact, there are plenty of other airlines and options. More than most people realize. It may be high on the list, but there are plenty of other options albet many would require a connection.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1599
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:06 am

I think CVG would be a close contender, if you went by pax volumes. DL is one of only 2 major airlines that operates mainline aircraft into CVG, and they have way more flights than any other carrier there, of course.
Good goes around!
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14347
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:14 am

I would guess (no numbers in front of me) that CLT, CVG, MEM, MDW, and CLE are all as dominated as is MSP.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:17 am

DFW on a sunny day is pure torture. The sun reflecting off all that bare aluminum can melt your eyes.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5280
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:22 am

Soon NW will have the entire Linburgh Terminal, with just CO and DL there. Also, how about DTW, the one terminal is NW, CO, DL, and then the international carriers of AF, LH, and BA. LH and BA will move to the North Terminal when opened. MEM, NW has gates on every concourse, ATL, Delta has gates on every concourse. SLC, CLT... there all like that in hub cities.
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:33 am

My vote is for UPS in Louisville.
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2629
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 4):
DFW on a sunny day is pure torture. The sun reflecting off all that bare aluminum can melt your eyes.

Good one...  Big grin
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 6):
My vote is for UPS in Louisville

I will 2nd that.  Smile

Although, I do also think that MSP, DTW, CVG, MEM, SLC are all dominated by one carrier.

I don't put ATL up there because it is dominated by both FL and DL.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
User avatar
727tiger
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:22 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:52 am

I would have to speak up for SWA at DAL. All that Canyon Blue . . .
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4120
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:47 am

I think you've all missed a very important airport.....IAH and CO!  Smile

FYI

For passengers the Houston Airport System website has CO with 88% of passenger traffic at IAH.

For aircraft operations the CO HUB at IAH is second in the U.S. in total aircraft operations behind only DL in ATL, yep, slightly more traffic than AA at DFW.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
Logos
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:51 am

At least MSP has some low cost competition from AirTran, Sun Country and Frontier. The earlier example of CVG is a good one as there is little in the way of non-regional major competition and virtually no LCC penetration at all. I can't think of another larger airport so thoroughly dominated by one carrier and its regional affiliates than CVG is by Delta.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
ont 737
Posts: 607
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:09 am

Here are some BTS numbers for Dec 05 through Nov 06 (I included the Reginal affiliates in the numbers)

DAL 90% WN
DFW 73.1% AA
EWR 67.6% CO
CLT 64.3% US
MSP 78.1% NW
DTW 76.14% NW
MEM 80.62% NW
MIA 68.46% AA
IAH 86.49% CO
HOU 87.57% WN
CVG 88.81% DL
CLE 61.03% CO
SEA 48.76% AS
SLC 66.46% DL
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Ont 737 (Reply 13):
DAL 90% WN
DFW 73.1% AA
EWR 67.6% CO
CLT 64.3% US
MSP 78.1% NW
DTW 76.14% NW
MEM 80.62% NW
MIA 68.46% AA
IAH 86.49% CO
HOU 87.57% WN
CVG 88.81% DL
CLE 61.03% CO
SEA 48.76% AS
SLC 66.46% DL

I thought DL had +80% of ATL
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
I would guess (no numbers in front of me) that CLT, CVG, MEM, MDW,

No way is MDW in that list..
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
User avatar
United787
Posts: 2936
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting Ont 737 (Reply 13):
Here are some BTS numbers for Dec 05 through Nov 06 (I included the Reginal affiliates in the numbers)

DAL 90% WN
DFW 73.1% AA
EWR 67.6% CO
CLT 64.3% US
MSP 78.1% NW
DTW 76.14% NW
MEM 80.62% NW
MIA 68.46% AA
IAH 86.49% CO
HOU 87.57% WN
CVG 88.81% DL
CLE 61.03% CO
SEA 48.76% AS
SLC 66.46% DL

I find it interesting that UA does not make this list with its Hubs where as most of the legacies dominate at most of their respective hubs. From this, I would conclude that UA has the most direct competition, whereas NW has the least. Therefore, (going out on a Limb), NW should have an easier time being profitable, yet they are in Chapter 11, and UA should have the most difficult time, yet the are recovering just fine...
 
AlexPorter
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:10 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:13 am

MSP and ATL both have other airlines hubbed at those airports:

MSP has Sun Country (SY is small, but they get lots of O&D on popular routes, so they do compete with NW for leisure travelers), while ATL has airTran.

From the list above, DAL was the most dominated by one carrier, but they have competition from AA at DFW. As far as market/city is concerned, Cincinnati was 88% Delta - so I'd give the nod to CVG for this little contest.
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
Mason
Posts: 636
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 12:01 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:15 am

Hmm, an interesting question would be what is the most diverse hub airport? I would exclude LAX from that list, as there is no well-established hub there. I was thinking SEA has to be fairly diverse, especially considering its size (as can be seen from the previous post, AS has almost 50% of pax at SEA). All major domestic airlines operate 757s or 739s, and even 767s from DL (757/739s are probably the largest aircraft flying domestic routes for most airlines, excluding a few 767s from DL and the occational 777 between hubs for UA/CO/AA). Think about it, how many other hub airports can claim 757/739s from DL, UA, CO, AA, NW (I guess the A321 could count for US). Also, I believe SFO can claim this, but not many other major hubs. Just an interesting observation.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1599
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:20 am

Well, if we're counting cargo hubs, how about DHL at ILN, considering they have all but 2 flights per day. However, the DHL-USA system is operated by 2 separate carriers, so we may not want to count that one.
Good goes around!
 
phelpsie87
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:41 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 16):
t they are in Chapter 11,

Not because they really have to be, they did it to get the cost cuts they wanted. NW was stable enough to avoid Chapter 11, and it will be a lot shorter time in BK then United was.

Quoting United787 (Reply 16):
et the are recovering just fine...

I wouldn't say that, with a flawed business plan of $45 a barrel for oil.

Here are some interesting numbers:

Labor CASM cost (cents)
1. American 4.1
2. United 3.3
3. Continental 3.1
4. Delta 2.6
5. US Airways 2.5
6. Northwest 2.5
7. Southwest 2.4
8. jetBlue 2.0
9. airTran 1.4

Total CASM (cents) Excluding Fuel
1. United 9.0
2. American 8.4
3. Continental 8.4
4. Northwest 7.7
5. Delta 7.4
6. US Airways 7.2
7. jetBlue 5.7
8. Southwest 4.8
9. airTran 4.7

So essentually United has the highest cost of all US Carriers.
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting Mason (Reply 18):
Hmm, an interesting question would be what is the most diverse hub airport? I would exclude LAX from that list, as there is no well-established hub there. I was thinking SEA has to be fairly diverse, especially considering its size (as can be seen from the previous post, AS has almost 50% of pax at SEA). All major domestic airlines operate 757s or 739s, and even 767s from DL (757/739s are probably the largest aircraft flying domestic routes for most airlines, excluding a few 767s from DL and the occational 777 between hubs for UA/CO/AA). Think about it, how many other hub airports can claim 757/739s from DL, UA, CO, AA, NW (I guess the A321 could count for US). Also, I believe SFO can claim this, but not many other major hubs. Just an interesting observation.

Well almost all our NW flights are 753s with the A332 in there to NRT. UA flys a lot of 752s here as well as the daily 777 to NRT, as well as a 767 from IAD, a 777 upgrade every so often, AND VERY RARELY we see a United 744. DL flies quite a few 763s and occasionally 764s here. AA sends quite a few 752s up here as well and we also see 753s to ANC and IAH from CO as well as 752s and 738s/9s from EWR. During the summer we see A321s from US but right now I think they are A320 flights.
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 598
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:54 am

Quoting 764 (Thread starter):
maybe ATL and DFW could be second runners up



Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 14):
I thought DL had +80% of ATL

ATL is a gargantuan hub for DL, but remember that AirTran has a significant number of movements there, too. That's why they have five parallel runways ... what an operation!!!
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:53 am

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 22):
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 14):
I thought DL had +80% of ATL

ATL is a gargantuan hub for DL, but remember that AirTran has a significant number of movements there, too. That's why they have five parallel runways ... what an operation!!!

DL has a bit over 70% pax market-share at ATL.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
bimmerkid19
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:43 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting 764 (Thread starter):
Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Go to FRA.. LH has all of Terminal 1. Terminal 2 is for non-Star Alliance airlines... FRA is a sight... at certain times of the day... if u want to see an airport that has the most concentration of 747's and A340... go to FRA!! I remember once counting about 25 747's!! All at one time!! Most were Lufthansa, while one or two were United and the others were a lonely Qantas 747 sitting on the Transient Ramp (as the flight lands from Singapore and Sydney at about 6 am and then leaves at 9 pm or 10pm) , and then also a Thai A340-600 and then also an ANA 747 from Japan and an Air India 747 departing to New York after it arrived from Mumbai or New Delhi.
Last flights: LH 3738 MUC - ZRH , LH 3749 ZRH - MUC . Upcoming: EK 50 MUC - DXB 3-aug. and EK 322 DXB - ICN 7- Aug.
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:15 am

I'll say MOT- Minot,ND. NW has 100% of the traffic.  

And I see their first (of 3) departures to MSP is at 0430! That's early.

[Edited 2007-02-17 03:17:27]
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
TedEx
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:29 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:42 pm

What about some EAS cities that have only one carrier... like CDC? There might only be a few flights, but all on one carrier - meaning 100% domination where at least in MSP you have your choice of connecting at the hubs of most network carriers.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14347
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carri

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:20 pm

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 15):
No way is MDW in that list..

It's late, but let me give it a whirl. I'm just going to do flights, not ASMs.

WN has ~200 flights

DL has 14
NW has 10
FL has about 25
GQ has 4
ZV has 4
TZ has 17
CO has 5

So, WN has about 72% of the flights. Because of their exclusive use of mainline equipment which is larger than what their biggest competitor (FL) uses, WN has an even larger monopoly in terms of both ASMs and seats. I'd be curious to see the actual numbers if anyone has them.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
af773atmsp
Posts: 2359
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:37 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:17 am

Champion Air also has a hub at MSP, but they don't fly to many cities. Does NW control MSP or does some person run the airport? NW is very sensitive when an airline wants to consider serving MSP.  banghead 
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
SY,DL,FI,FL,BA,EI,NW,MG,DY,EZY,F9,WN,SN,ET,SK
Too many airports to fit in signature.
 
united319
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:07 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:39 am

I would deffinately think CVG...btw who is the only other mainline carrier there??? Is it AA? I would also think MEM would be behind CVG if you exclude FedEx from that count. The only LCC there (RIGHT NOW, F9 is to be coming pretty big this year) is FL and all the other carriers with the exception of DL are using RJ's.
It's Time To Fly
 
skibum9
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 1:13 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carri

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 6):
My vote is for UPS in Louisville.

I got that one beat. My vote is on ABX at ILN since they own the airport and no one else can use it.
Tailwinds!!!
 
N353SK
Posts: 1019
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 25):
I'll say MOT- Minot,ND. NW has 100% of the traffic.

Dang, I was just about to mention one of those North Dakota Airports that NW basically owns! but from now on how about we vow only to discuss large (or at least not as tiny as MOT) airports.


As far as the most diverse hub, I would vote for JFK. AA,B6,DL all have some sort of hubbing operation there, as well as North American.
 
Western727
Posts: 1744
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 28):
Does NW control MSP or does some person run the airport?

MSP is run by the Metropolitan Airports Commission (MAC), though NWA carries much influence and bargaining power, illustrated by their efforts to kick out non-Skyteam airlines to the Humphrey terminal that are currently still at Lindbergh (AA, AC, HP/US, UA, F9, according to http://www.mspairport.com/msp/Airlines/passenger.aspx ).

Like AsstChiefMark's signature illustrates so accurately, it can get boring here at MSP with all those red tails, but I'm relocating to AUS in the summer and will miss seeing decent-sized, 752-plus aircraft on a regular basis, as well as being able to watch the daily 744 arrival from NRT...it's amazing how many of us here probably literally weigh, in part, such factors in our relocation decisions.  Smile
Jack @ AUS
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15080
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 17):
As far as market/city is concerned, Cincinnati was 88% Delta - so I'd give the nod to CVG for this little contest.

And prices reflect that. Unlike IAH/HOU, MDW/ORD, etc. DAY or Louisville is not that close for many people to CVG.

CO may dominate IAH, but HOU is closer to much of houston and WN dominates that, so it keeps prices down. Same holds for DFW and DAL. And all of NYC. At ATL, FL helps keep prices down.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 27):
So, WN has about 72% of the flights.

Just doing a rough estimate that WN averages twice the seats per movement as all the others combined, they would have at most 83% of seats, which is pretty strong. Count TZ, which they own, and they have even more, since TZ flies the same size or larger planes than WN...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4120
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
CO may dominate IAH, but HOU is closer to much of houston and WN dominates that

If you look at where Houston is growing you look west and north. Distance to HOU from the westside of town and distance to IAH is about the same. So if you live on the westside of Houston, you have to ask yourself should I go to HOU and take WN and maybe have to make a few stops/change planes or go to IAH and probably go non-stop on CO!
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 28):
Champion Air also has a hub at MSP, but they don't fly to many cities

How can a charter airline operate a hub? Do they connect passengers?
 
DavidT
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:37 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:29 am

I would say Ivalo, Finland is a pretty close contender. 100% Finnair!
 
xjet
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:09 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting Mason (Reply 17):
Think about it, how many other hub airports can claim 757/739s from DL, UA, CO, AA, NW

EWR gets a lot of 752 from AA, UA, and DL. And of course from CO.  wink 
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: Is MSP The Airport Most Dominated By One Carrier?

Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:57 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 15):
I would conclude that UA has the most direct competition, whereas NW has the least.

That would be correct

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos