Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
jjeff
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:52 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:49 pm

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 43):
It is absolutely frickin' amazing to me that people will defend an airline to the death in here even to the disagreement of the airline's CEO.JetBlue screwed up. They continue to screw up. End. Of. Story.Who is more fragile, a passenger who is tired of being inconvenienced two days after a snow event, or a bunch of a.netters who are so emotionally invested in a transportation company (of all things) that they can't seem to admit that any airline could ever possibly be in the wrong?

Thank you! (Your RR is up by one.)
 
GentFromAlaska
Posts: 2666
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:48 pm

I watched the CNBC interview with Mr. Neeleman on Thursday. He admitted he was in the B6 operations center at JFK
for a good part of the day. He admitted B6 lost control of situation. He also mentioned ATC kept telling them they expected things to be moving soon. ATC provided updates often. There were apparently a bunch of failed promises.

If the passengers were forgot about in the ciaos, would ATC ground contact the airlines ops center to remind them about the stranded aircraft on the apron/tarmac or in the bullpen holding area. Neeleman admitted they should have sent buses to the stranded aircraft. Should the airport authority share any of the responsibilities to get pax of of stranded aircraft? This all needs to be placed into a incident action plan and practiced by all parties.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
User avatar
zippyjet
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:49 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 12):
So - the customers are the problem?

Many passengers have an emotional and financial investment in a flight. Most people fly for a reason - weddings, deaths, important (to them) business or just seeing loved ones - there is much more to it than the cost of the ticket and the actual flight.

True, most folks flying are doing so to get from point A to B. We at A-Net are those few who will fly for the heck of it.
But, especially during "manufactered occasions" such as mattress sale weekend/ I mean President's Day, the bulk of passengers like Christmas tend to be less experienced flyers. Many of them are getting another extra day off with pay courtesy of us the tax payers and yes, we airline folk pay our taxes. Many of these people get liberal leave, days off if a President kicks the bucket and, it's great they take advantage of all these days off with pay and fly. They keep us in business. IN a lot of their jobs, they don't have to deal with the public or, if they do, they can get away with acting apathetic. yap on their cell phones and push paper from pile A to pile B. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if we came to their offices, government agencies places of business etc. and acted 1/4 as churlish we'd be hauled out by the law on our asses 1 2 3! February is the shittiest time of the year and guess what? Mother nature can hit you with weather.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 20):
Yes. Not all of them, just the unreasonable ones. Sometimes circumstances are beyond any person's control. Like circumstances caused by weather. This storm was forecast for days. It is my understanding that they ran as many flights as they could, but they could only do so much. Did none of these people turn on a television or read a paper and think, "Hmm, this might impact my travel?".

NOt to worry, they turned on the TV/radio to find out if they got over and got a snow day off with pay (government workers!)

Well said BTW!

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 25):
In none of my posts have I claimed that jetBlue or any other airline didn't drop the ball in some way or another.
But as usual it's being blown way out of proportion, thanks again to the media. These are largely isolated events, when looking at the big picture.

The yellow journalists and of course the lawyers love to pick on our industry it's their pastime! NOw, that Barbaro and Anna are cold on ice even without this snow/ice storm! (old news)

Quoting Richierich (Reply 9):
By my account, police have been called in to quell the crowds at JFK, EWR and now BOS.

Thats business as usual in these Northeast cities where many, not all think they are better than everyone else and are me, me, and me. Manners challenged in the Northeast perfect isn't good enough not to mention when the shit hits the fan as with this nasty storm. When we get diversions from New York, Newark, Boston we have the law on hand because, many of these passengers come off with piss and vinegar and ready to pick a fight.


And sadly, in today's legal climate 9you can thank those damn lawyers) you can't just roll up air stairs and busses and cart the passengers off the plane and back to the terminal. As someone mentioned earlier it's a catch 22, a sad cluster fuck. Imagine those poor folks trapped in their cars for over 18 hours on I-78, I-87 and I-81. Where's the yellow journalists on that one and the lawyers?
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:54 pm

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 52):
you can't just roll up air stairs and busses and cart the passengers off the plane and back to the terminal.

But that is exactly what Jetblue eventually did.

???

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
jetblueatjfk
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:42 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:15 pm

Quoting MD95 (Reply 32):
The excuse that there were no available gate is extremely pathetic given the fact that you can always push back an empty plane to make room to a full one.

Well in part of the news stories they did mention a few times that a lot of the ground eqiptment kept freezing out on the apron and they ahd difficulties keeping them going to pull planes in and out.

Quoting 747hogg (Reply 39):
Screw Jet Blue! I hope they vanish and go tits up because of this! 11 goddamn hours? BULLSHIT!

Oh your mature, an airline leaves them on the tarmac for 8 hours because they were told they would be departing soon by ATC so they send them out and have a crowded terminal which means no where to go back to and no more room there...then on the other hand its okay for police and others to leave all those cars on I-78 for a day! and they never had any TV at all or any bathroom or any promise of getting anywhere or any heat.

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 43):

How about you pay me several hundred dollars in advance for the privilege. How about instead of telling you I'm going to lock you in that sealed room for 11 hours, I instead tell you I'm taking you on a trip to Cancun. I ask you to bring all your best beach wear with you. Then I sit and laugh while you stew in your locked room and do nothing to help you.

Then we can get off the plane and be fully re-imbursed and get a whole round trip ticket free, so you get all and more back, so all you had to do is give up 8 hours and a you get to Cancun to do nothing at all but lay on a beach all day, oh no, that'll affect your overall tan and shopping!!!

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 52):
Imagine those poor folks trapped in their cars for over 18 hours on I-78, I-87 and I-81. Where's the yellow journalists on that one and the lawyers?

Exactly that about 3 times as logn and they had no bathrooms or heat or anything there (I stated it above also).

I'm not wholly defending B6 on what they did here, because yes they did drop the ball, but seriously, these weren't flights going to Boston for meetings, where money could be lost, they were people heading to Aruba or Cancun. Now yes, in the eyes of the airline they are no less equal and I guess some businesses down in Cancun or Aruba missed out on 150 jetBlue PAX's money for a day, but overall, the people are still going to get there, they get to go somewhere else for free also and by 2008 B6 will be over at T5 with more space and room and if they don't demolish T6 right away that'll give them plenty of overflow space, even just hardstand space. Plus I doubt B6 will ever make this mistake again.

B6jfk airplane 
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3310
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:19 pm

Quoting 747hogg (Reply 39):
Screw Jet Blue! I hope they vanish and go tits up because of this! 11 goddamn hours? BULLSHIT!

So by your logic, an airline that made a stupid mistake and immediately admitted it - and didn't make excuses - should "vanish"? 10,000 employees should be laid off? 21 gates at JFK and 11 gates at BOS should go empty? Construction on the 26 gate terminal at JFK should hault? The Orlando training center, the JFK hangar, and the LTV installation center should be closed? Customers in many U.S. markets should be forced to pay higher fares and have less flights to choose from?

Think about what you say before you say it. This may have been a bad move by JetBlue, but it was a mistake - something that all airlines make. They have admitted it and are apologizing profusely. This should not cost 10,000 people their jobs, let alone have any sort of negative repercussion on local economic growth and airfares.

JetBluefan1
 
User avatar
zippyjet
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:21 pm

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 54):
they were people heading to Aruba or Cancun

I thank the Lord, we did not get CAN service! just my 2 cents. And, excellent post. You are an optimist with B6 getting new facilities at JFK; but lets face it, the Northeast air corrisor is a cluster F*&k most of the time; winter, spring summer or fall; if shit can happen, it does happen in the Northeast!
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:22 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 53):
Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 52):
you can't just roll up air stairs and busses and cart the passengers off the plane and back to the terminal.

As I stated earlier...why not?

Quoting Mariner (Reply 53):
But that is exactly what Jetblue eventually did.

???

mariner

Yeah...what he said! And why not sooner?
 
User avatar
zippyjet
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 57):
As I stated earlier...why not?

Supposedly, there are risks like being exposed to emissions from other aircraft, jetblast, the weather, and handicapped passengers are at a distinct disadvantage if the only way on or off the plane was air stairs and out on the runway.
Remember, we are stuck with today's legal climate. Go check the NON-AVIATION thread on the death of common sense.
BTW it's not my thread but an excellent one none the less!
I'm Zippyjet & I approve this message!
 
SFOMB67
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:20 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:49 pm

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 54):
Then we can get off the plane and be fully re-imbursed and get a whole round trip ticket free, so you get all and more back, so all you had to do is give up 8 hours and a you get to Cancun to do nothing at all but lay on a beach all day

You mean these people were only 8 hrs late arriving in Cancun ???
Not as easy as originally perceived
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:00 pm

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 58):
Supposedly, there are risks like being exposed to emissions from other aircraft, jetblast, the weather, and handicapped passengers are at a distinct disadvantage if the only way on or off the plane was air stairs and out on the runway.

I'm not talking about making people walk all the way from a runway or taxiway to he terminal. I'm talking about airstairs to get pax to a bus. B6 uses airstairs at LGB and passengers walk to the terminal. The distance to a bus wouldn't be any different. I don't believe I've heard of them being sued for exposure to jetblast or emissions at LGB. And I'm referring to arriving pax forced to sit on a plane. There should be some way of getting them off. Read my previous post.
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1980
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:19 pm

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 25):
But I'd certainly rather be one of the pax stuck in a plane for 8 hours than be dead. But it seems some on here wouldn't judging by the uproar.

So lemme sum up the major viewpoint expressed here: Let me take your money, sit down, shut up and be thankful we're not taking off and killing you??? This is customer service? And I get to pay for this?

You guys are right, our problems in the US are indeed special. And if that is your definition of customer service in the airline industry, the poor reputations of many domestic airlines related to their customer service are deserved.

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 42):
Quoting VEEREF (Reply 3):
there a probably a billion or so people in this world who wish that this was the extent of their troubles.

At least 4 billion people would probably be much closer to an accurate number.

Lock 159 Pakistanis or Afganistanians -- or you name any of the 4 billion other souls you mention -- on a plane for 8 hours see how they react. From what I read in the international section of my newspaper, people -- yes even people poorer than ourselves -- riot over every sort of inconvenience and slight perpetrated against them all the time.

Its a matter of customer service -- treating one's clientele in the manner we ourselves would like to be treated. No one wants to be locked on a plane for a period longer than many long haul flights last -- and without the facilities and sustenance that make such long haul travel bearable. The airline failed in this regard.

Many of you on line work in the industry. Rather than attack your patrons, why don't you devote this space to brainstorming some creative -- and positive ideas -- that might prevent the sort of meltdown that occured this past week?
 
UAFAN17
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:51 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 59):
You mean these people were only 8 hrs late arriving in Cancun ???

No they had to wait 8 hours for the flight to be cancelled to Cancun.
 
User avatar
TheRedBaron
Posts: 3276
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:17 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:33 pm

What a sorry state of affairs, we now live in....

People are so unreasonable left and right, and dont stop and think for a darn minute, and I ma not talking about previous posts I mean EVERYWHERE.
People get so angry when their "little" plans go bad, they get unreasonable and throw rants worth of a 5 years old!, YES WE HAVE SEEN THEM everywhere.
I remember being held for 55 minutes in ORD because there was a huge traffic on gruond and a big pile up of planes prior to departure, then the captain announced that we had to return to the gate since we burned so much fuel on taxiing around we were short of fuel for the trip, PANDEMONIUM ENSUED, what these stupid idiots wanted? to run out of fuel in the middle of the atlantic?
Was it the captain fault, Do they think the captain was having fun, doing the down and dirty with the F.A.?

I have seen people yell at other about not answering the cell phone, when there were no cell phones 20 years ago and NOBODY COMPLAINED...

And now companies, and service providers are held hostages by those bozos, who think their time is more important than everybodys else...

Sorry times we live in.... now they want airlines to control the weather? what will be next....
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1980
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:47 pm

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 63):
Sorry times we live in.... now they want airlines to control the weather? what will be next....

Nobody's asking to control the weather, they are asking that they not be trapped on a plane going no where for 8 hours.

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 63):
I remember being held for 55 minutes in ORD because there was a huge traffic on gruond and a big pile up of planes prior to departure, then the captain announced that we had to return to the gate since we burned so much fuel on taxiing around we were short of fuel for the trip, PANDEMONIUM ENSUED,

You would have a very valid point if that in fact was the situation JetBlue (did I spell it correctly?) faced last week. But it wasn't -- people were trapped for 8 hours on a plane with limited facilities. You really think it unreasonable that passengers were outraged in that situation?
 
j_hallgren
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 11:48 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:54 pm

After 3 hrs waiting on plane to takeoff, I'd believe the pax would prefer that they went back to a gate and get a break for 30-45 min or so (so at least waste could be emptied, and maybe food/drinks restocked), even if that meant they would then be delayed an extra hour or even two to get back in position...so in this case, because B6 thought takeoff was to be at anytime, after a certain point, just give up, take a break, and try again later...pax would still probably have been delayed same overall total time, but likely much happier.
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10612
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:35 pm

Its the old "black hole" syndrome, you put your money in an investment and it goes nowhere but you keep putting more because you have already invested some, and unless it gets better or someone or something intervenes, you keep putting more in.
It seems that B6 kept relying on the ATC promises that things were going to "start moving" and kept waiting until either 8 hours passed, or so many planes were loaded / landed with nowhere to go and possibly lost track of the situation.
My opinion is that's what happened, I don't think even after reading much of the news reports or the posters here that I am so wrong or mis-informed. An earlier poster had an opinion of where this thread should really be going, instead of trying to blame one or another it would be interesting to have views on what could have been done differently. We have already had a few such post, but they are being drowned here, lets have some more.

There would now be two camps, those professionals within the industry who know how things work and those "bean counters" and their investors who see no reason to "loose money" unless you really really really have no choice.

Would make for an interesting read.
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:36 pm

C'mon now, the truth of the matter is that only recently has weather stranded people for so long on one aircraft. There has been bad weather, off and on, since the dawn of aviation....what gives now?

This is not about weather.....it's about the despicable illusion of post-911 security.
 
adizzy
Topic Author
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:27 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:18 am

Sure they could have done something to help get the passengers off the plane instead of making them wait for hours, but i think that there are several factors that had influences on this not happening....

1) ATC kept on reporting often that conditions would be getting better and that airport operations would resume!

2) Yes it would have been smart to push empty planes away from the gate and allow for deplaning through the jetways-but i have heard numerous times that ground equipment freezing was part of the problem. An iced over frozen Jetway- I would say would be very hard to disconnect from an aircraft safely!

3) Deplaning using air stairs could have been equally problematic. Maybe it was not in the customers best interest to be deplaned on the tarmac because the conditions were hazardous. The wind gust were VERY HIGH...with that the risk of slabs of high flying off the Terminal, off of Airplane wings, off of the jetways, or even off the busses that would have bussed the customers back to the terminal was also VERY HIGH! In Boston i saw three employees get hit by HUGE pieces of ICE!

Thats my two cents for now- i Just think that a big deal has been made of of what was something very small that has happened many times before!
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1980
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 67):
This is not about weather.....it's about the despicable illusion of post-911 security

No, I really think it has to do with being stuck on a plane going nowhere for 8 hours. People stuck on those planes had a right to be furious.

I think pardel13 has it right, the airline kept hoping things would improve and lost control of the situation.

True, bad weather has always grounded flights and snowed in airports. But are you saying that in the past, airlines typically handled the situation by trapping people for 8 hours on planes parked within sight of the terminal, and the passengers just sat there without complaint? Maybe you're right, but I'd sure like to know about those good ole days.

I think 9/11 has had something to do with passengers' attitudes today. But more so, I think it is the fact that the number of people flying today is substantially higher than it was 30 and 40 years ago. Five thousand people were stranded during AA's similar problem on December 30th, many on airplanes parked within sight of the gate. That's a huge number of people. We operate, and advertise as comfortable, convenient and efficient, a mass transit system that moves hundreds of thousands of people each day. Having invited these vast numbers of people to use this system, it appears there are no plans in place by either the airlines, the airports or local communities to handle the huge bottlenecks that occur when thousands get stuck, through no fault of anyone, in these weather emergencies. Agreed, the inconvenience of not getting to one's destination is the least important complaint. Not being equipped, and having no procedures in place, to provide for the basic needs of thousands of trapped passengers is a very important and valid complaint, however.

So I ask again, what solutions are out there for preventing this in the future? I don't see blaming your passengers an appropriate solution.
 
adizzy
Topic Author
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:27 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:23 am

As an aside

Does anyone know if the E190 is used on any BOS MCO and MCO Bos routes in July? I am booking a flight and would much rather be on a E190 than an a320
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15121
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 41):
You funeral or the birth of your nephew may be a big deal to you, but if you miss it because of weather, others will understand and life will go on. You may feel bad, but that is about the extent of the harm.

Thanks for qualifying what life means to you. Honestly, in your lifetime, there are very few events that truly matter. Weddings, funerals, births, graduations. All the rest mean little. But to you, those don't mean much either. To me, they mean everything in the world, and to most other people they do as well.

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 43):
It is absolutely frickin' amazing to me that people will defend an airline to the death in here even to the disagreement of the airline's CEO.

Even the guy who picked me up at the airport after my trip, persian guy living in LA, heard about the B6 fiasco and called it nearly criminal. That is bad, bad, PR, but I guess kool-aid drinkers can defend it. I think it's even worse than the 8 hour delay on AA (last month?) because here it's snow, and B6 KNEW it was going to snow and keep snowing and they could get them off. For AA, it was thunderstorms, where the ramp closes due to lightning, it was a diversion (not simple departure from a main focus city) and it kept looking like they could leave. In both cases, I think the the airline needs to change policy, as either way it would have involved pushing back a plane to make room for another to let pax off at a jetway, not a difficult task in the grand scheme of things...

Quoting ADiZzy (Reply 46):
Three hours is still better than NONE at all.

Wow. So 3 hours of live TV, then 8 hours with nothing is good enough? After 8 hours of confusion and anger, I don't think those first 3 hours of salty snack packs and liveTV will be remembered.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 51):
Should the airport authority share any of the responsibilities to get pax of of stranded aircraft?

Not really. It's B6's job to interpret the reports and apply good judgment to their operations. If the Airport were in charge of this, well, I don't want to live in a country where the airport is running the airlines...  Wink

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 52):
you can't just roll up air stairs and busses and cart the passengers off the plane and back to the terminal.

Sure you can. They do it all the time around the country. If B6 has a policy not to because they are afraid of lawyers, then B6 has to change that policy...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
VEEREF
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:55 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:05 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 61):
So lemme sum up the major viewpoint expressed here: Let me take your money, sit down, shut up and be thankful we're not taking off and killing you??? This is customer service? And I get to pay for this?

You guys are right, our problems in the US are indeed special. And if that is your definition of customer service in the airline industry, the poor reputations of many domestic airlines related to their customer service are deserved.

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 42):
Quoting VEEREF (Reply 3):
there a probably a billion or so people in this world who wish that this was the extent of their troubles.

At least 4 billion people would probably be much closer to an accurate number.

Lock 159 Pakistanis or Afganistanians -- or you name any of the 4 billion other souls you mention -- on a plane for 8 hours see how they react. From what I read in the international section of my newspaper, people -- yes even people poorer than ourselves -- riot over every sort of inconvenience and slight perpetrated against them all the time.

Its a matter of customer service -- treating one's clientele in the manner we ourselves would like to be treated. No one wants to be locked on a plane for a period longer than many long haul flights last -- and without the facilities and sustenance that make such long haul travel bearable. The airline failed in this regard.

Many of you on line work in the industry. Rather than attack your patrons, why don't you devote this space to brainstorming some creative -- and positive ideas -- that might prevent the sort of meltdown that occured this past week?

You've completely missed my point. But that's fine. The whole debate is pointless on both sides.

Fly safe.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting ADiZzy (Reply 68):
1) ATC kept on reporting often that conditions would be getting better and that airport operations would resume!2) Yes it would have been smart to push empty planes away from the gate and allow for deplaning through the jetways-but i have heard numerous times that ground equipment freezing was part of the problem. An iced over frozen Jetway- I would say would be very hard to disconnect from an aircraft safely!3) Deplaning using air stairs could have been equally problematic. Maybe it was not in the customers best interest to be deplaned on the tarmac because the conditions were hazardous. The wind gust were VERY HIGH...with that the risk of slabs of high flying off the Terminal, off of Airplane wings, off of the jetways, or even off the busses that would have bussed the customers back to the terminal was also VERY HIGH! In Boston i saw three employees get hit by HUGE pieces of ICE!

How could de-planing be any more problematic for passengers than sitting idle in a tube for half of a day? Ahhh, wait ----- you are talking about problematic for the airline....that makes sense. We wouldn't want to get between an airline and it's profit margin.....would we? I suppose it is now unreasonable to expect actual customer service from companies IN the customer service business.

A book of matches and a handful of worthless in-flight mags would certainly go a long way toward getting those doors open and slides deployed. Yep.
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 69):
So I ask again, what solutions are out there for preventing this in the future? I don't see blaming your passengers an appropriate solution.

We should re-focus on tail-mounted engine aircraft designs, which can be brought much closer to the ground. Less FOD for the engines and far more entry/exit options for the most valuable cargo of all - people. If a person cannot jump from a parked airliner without losing their life on the tarmac.....then it's time to try something different.

Imagine a T7 with it's huge engines mounted aft, like the MD-90? Add a sweet T-tail, draw the wings back a bit, and mount some stubby, beefy gear bottomside and BAM.....you got an awesome looking (and performing) bird.
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1980
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 72):
You've completely missed my point.

No, I think I get your point. We in the civilized, industrialized world have no business complaining about appallingly poor service unless we are faced with death. We should do as the rest of the world does and be thankful we are alive -- even if trapped for hours on a plane with limited facilities.

(again, I'm not sure the rest of the world would do any different than what they did at JFK the other day)
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14930
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:11 am

In general, I think this thread has understated the role of employees in dealing with these situations. In my experience, when operational stuff occurs, the real key to having things be OK is frontline staff who are invested in the operation and willing to do what it takes to get folks out. I've seen it from US in CLT, NW in MKE, and even DH at IAD. It's mostly in the small stuff, like finding a toothbrush for the passenger without his bag. But if the employees are willing to go the extra mile for everyone, this kind of crap (usually) does not get out of control.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:36 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 76):
But if the employees are willing to go the extra mile for everyone, this kind of crap (usually) does not get out of control.

Certainly sound thinking on the part of employees that can serve to mitigate a situation. However, there is virtually sure to be plenty of boorish behavior (or worse) anyway due to the crass "I am entitled to be first-served, exactly the way I am entitled to be served" (regardless of their totally unrealistic expectations) mentality of 50-75 pax (of 100-150 effected by irrops invloving just one flight) expecting -- and selfishly demanding -- to receive immediate personalized attention from the 2 agents available to assist them.
 
adizzy
Topic Author
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:27 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:02 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 77):
But if the employees are willing to go the extra mile for everyone, this kind of crap (usually) does not get out of control.

one may say that they were going to the extra mile....by tring to get them to thier destination!
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 30120
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:16 am

Quoting ADiZzy (Thread starter):
They are giving Jetblue so much bad press...when in fact every airline is having the same issues.

The Airline Mgmt need to Permit some Interviews  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
User avatar
TheRedBaron
Posts: 3276
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:17 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:20 am

Some things that pop to my mind after reading all this...

If its THAT IMPORTANT take 3 days and use a TRAIN.

I bet those crew in the B6 Plane were having the time of their life while the poor pax had the worst ever...

Lets think they deplaned and waited the same 8 hours on land, would that be so different? maybe after 2 to 4 hours the flight would be cancelled and pandemonium would have ensued...

My point is...there is no point $hit happens
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
adizzy
Topic Author
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:27 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:22 am

On WHDH.COM Bostons News Website.....just added today......

Airline cancels flights in bid to recover from storm disruptions
PORTLAND, Maine -- JetBlue said Saturday it has canceled flights in and out of Portland and 10 other destinations this weekend in an effort to recover from disruptions linked to the Valentine's Day snowstorm that battered the Northeast.

The low-cost airline characterized its decision as unprecedented and said it was made in order to reposition its aircraft and allow flight crews to get their mandatory rests so they will be eligible to return to duty.

In addition to Portland, the affected cities include Austin, Texas; Bermuda, Charlotte, N.C.; Columbus, Ohio; Houston; Jacksonville, Fla.; Nashville, Tenn.; Pittsburgh; Raleigh-Durham, N.C., and Richmond, Va.

JetBlue said the cancellations were affecting 23 percent of its weekend schedule and that further cancellations were possible.

Affected customers may receive refunds or rebook their flights, the airline said.

JetBlue's problems began Wednesday when its operations at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport were overwhelmed by the snowstorm. With dozens of grounded jets and too few gates to unload passengers, some flights were stranded on the tarmac for up to 10 hours.

The airline said it tried to get its system back to normal by selectively canceling flights Thursday and Friday, but long delays continued as a result of constraints that included a one-runway operation Thursday.

Disgruntled passengers Friday complained of chaos at JetBlue's terminals, with many expressing disbelief that problems were continuing.

In announcing the weekend cancellations, JetBlue said it "is taking this aggressive, unprecedented action to end rolling delays and cancellations, and to operate a new schedule reliably."
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:15 pm

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 63):
I remember being held for 55 minutes in ORD because there was a huge traffic on gruond and a big pile up of planes prior to departure, then the captain announced that we had to return to the gate since we burned so much fuel on taxiing around we were short of fuel for the trip, PANDEMONIUM ENSUED, what these stupid idiots wanted? to run out of fuel in the middle of the atlantic?
Was it the captain fault, Do they think the captain was having fun, doing the down and dirty with the F.A.?

What amazes me is that people expect anything better when flying through, to, or from ORD.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
adizzy
Topic Author
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:27 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:53 pm

Hey Guys

JetBlue is now letting people cancel thier flights through May 22, 2007???????? It is going to take them that long to recover from the past few days of interupted flights??????
 
j_hallgren
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 11:48 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:26 am

Just curious...what would have happened if pax had demanded to be let off, and when not allowed to, had called 911 and reported it as being held hostage?
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
richierich
Moderator
Posts: 3632
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting 747hogg (Reply 39):
Screw Jet Blue! I hope they vanish and go tits up because of this! 11 goddamn hours? BULLSHIT!

What an ignorant statement to make, on many different levels.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 55):
Think about what you say before you say it. This may have been a bad move by JetBlue, but it was a mistake - something that all airlines make. They have admitted it and are apologizing profusely. This should not cost 10,000 people their jobs, let alone have any sort of negative repercussion on local economic growth and airfares.

And nevermind that JetBlue is hardly alone when it comes to these incidents. Please hear me: this does NOT make it right!!!! But by the logic (or lack of it) that 747hogg shows, just about every airline flying should be out of business. I've flown on many carriers - including some that have lost my bags on numerous occasions. It wasn't like the major debacle that is going on at JFK right now, but needless to say I've been seperated from my bags for hours and also days. Did it annoy me? Sure. Do I think the airline(s) in question should go out of business? I'd never say that about any airline, although I may harbor some negative opinions about one or two airlines and the way they handled those situations.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 53):
But that is exactly what Jetblue eventually did.

Yes sir. This is what I don't understand. Clearly somebody dropped the ball by not getting the pax off of that plane sooner than they did. I would have thought that by the 3rd or 4th hour, getting those pax back to the gate should have been a priority. However, the only thing more important would have been safety. If they could not have been deplaned safely, then they were better off staying put. Neither you nor I are qualified to make that call, but I will say that it sounds like they could have been deplaned earlier.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 61):
So lemme sum up the major viewpoint expressed here: Let me take your money, sit down, shut up and be thankful we're not taking off and killing you??? This is customer service? And I get to pay for this?

See above. I don't know if there is a valid reason for being stuck on the tarmac that long - but if there is, it better be a good one! And, I for one, am glad that they didn't take off in that slop last week. The JetBlue name may be getting dragged through the mud - perhaps deservedly so this time - but this still wouldn't compare to having a plane go down and loss of life. I'm sure that all of us hope that doesn't happen to any airline at any time.

Quoting ADiZzy (Reply 83):
JetBlue is now letting people cancel thier flights through May 22, 2007???????? It is going to take them that long to recover from the past few days of interupted flights??????

I think they are allowing people who voluntarily canceled their bookings this week to rebook without penalty by this date.
I'm sure those that were on cancelled flights have different compensation.

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 84):
Just curious...what would have happened if pax had demanded to be let off, and when not allowed to, had called 911 and reported it as being held hostage?

They would have been informed that it was not a hostage situation and told to stay put.
Honestly, I would not have been happy on that plane either. I would have been pissed, actually. But for all the talk about "I would have opened the door myself" and other such ludicrous comments - do you know what you are saying? Do you really think that opening the exit door yourself would have put an end to this situation? Well, all I can say is, if somebody had opened the door and decided to take matters into their own hands, they'd be signing themselves up for quite a lot more time in confinement. Probably measured in months or years.
None shall pass!!!!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos