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adizzy
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Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:23 am

Hey Guys
Just saw this posted on whdh.com....channel 7 news in Boston. What the heck is everyone problem. They are giving Jetblue so much bad press...when in fact every airline is having the same issues.

The weather was Bad and there were delays and cancellations! People need to get Real and stop acting like idiots. My flight was cancel, i took the full refund and a free flight, which i thought was more than generous and more than any other airline would give!

Would they rather the plane leave in the ICE Storm and Crash? Skid off the runway? I surely would rather put safety first! In fact thats what JETBLUE DOES!

What are your thoughts?
 
cubastar
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting ADiZzy (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts?

Without knowing details, probably very overstressed people due to all of the recent airport disruptions. It always brings out the worse in some people. Others are just simply.......piggish.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:02 am

Well it happened at the worst possible time.... 2 days of cancelations just prior to a super busy travel weeekend because of school vacations and everyone wanting to go down to florida. So those two days worth of flights are finding no seats available.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
VEEREF
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:06 am

I'll cut and paste my response from the B6 PIT thread-

It's amazing how we get so balled up over things like this but we forget to stop, back out just a bit and realize there a probably a billion or so people in this world who wish that this was the extent of their troubles.

Perspective.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
tsra
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:11 am

I often wish I have a video camera when I see people yelling and crying at the airport. I then wish I could take said video to those people's family/employer and watch their embarrassment. I understand people have a certain apprehension when it comes to flying and weather delay adds to that. However, there is absolutely no reason for anyone to yell, scream, cuss, throw things, etc just because they can not leave on time. Do they really think that acting like a spoiled little brat the airline will change its mind and risk EVERYONE"S life? ADiZzy, I wish Joe Passenger was more like you....
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 3):
It's amazing how we get so balled up over things like this but we forget to stop, back out just a bit and realize there a probably a billion or so people in this world who wish that this was the extent of their troubles.

Perspective.

Well said, welcome to my RR list.

Do people hink there is a big conspiracy against them, and only them. Do they think airlines do this for fun? Becasue it sure as hell doesnt throw scheduling, crews and aircraft plans straight out the window.....Now if it was a fly by night charter carrier(like some I could mention) these things happen a little more often then they should. But B6 has earned a fine reputuation for looking after its passengers(and the pssengers of others, truth be told). If B6 could have gotten its passengers to thier destination safely and on time it would have done.

Yes, travel plans get messed up, it happens, but this should NEVER, NEVER, EVER be taken out on the airlines staff. Sure let them know you're not impressed, but to necessitite having the ploice called.....grow up people. Or better yet just dont fly, get back in your pick-ups and drive trans-contnental. Leave the airports and airlines to those of us who are mature and civilised enough to use them.

Just my $0.02
Brian
 
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting ADiZzy (Thread starter):

Could you please provide a link to this story, so we can give a good opinion on the subject?
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chrisnh
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:33 am

I think the crux of the issue is being put on a plane and then, essentially, being held hostage. All airlines are caught in this 'Catch-22' when so much is in flux and things change minute-to-minute.

It also doesn't help jetBlue's cause that they decided themselves to focus so strongly at two of the busier airports in two of the top media markets in perhaps the busiest corridor of them all...in the midst of a snowstorm. Roll it all together and you get the proverbial 'Perfect Storm' for jetBlue.

The munchkins will come out and all will be swell for jetBlue...after they finish carting around hundreds of people for free on their complimentary tickets. That is, those people who didn't yell 'I'LL NEVER FLY JETBLUE EVER AGAIN!' once the TV cameras were pointed at them.

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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:43 am

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/MI2604/




Police were called to Logan after reports of irate Jet Blue passengers.

That's about all it say's.....
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richierich
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:51 am

It seems to be a common problem at JetBlue lately.
By my account, police have been called in to quell the crowds at JFK, EWR and now BOS.

I guess all airlines were affected by this major ice storm - but b/c JetBlue's hub is at JFK (and some poorly handled delays) they are getting the bulk of the bad press.
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ptugarin
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:38 am

I wouldn't pay much attention to a source that spells B6's name as "Jet Blue"
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting Ptugarin (Reply 10):
I wouldn't pay much attention to a source that spells B6's name as "Jet Blue"

That's the correct spelling. "jetBlue" is merely their logotype.
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mariner
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 3):
It's amazing how we get so balled up over things like this but we forget to stop, back out just a bit and realize there a probably a billion or so people in this world who wish that this was the extent of their troubles.

So - the customers are the problem?

Many passengers have an emotional and financial investment in a flight. Most people fly for a reason - weddings, deaths, important (to them) business or just seeing loved ones - there is much more to it than the cost of the ticket and the actual flight.

Even if it is just simple vacation and they have paid for their hotels they are facing a loss, and the difficulty of trying to get those rooms rebooked or even just get some kind of recompense.

If they are then treated shabbily, they are going to be angry.

Mr. Neeleman said that JetBlue made some bad decisions. Is Mr. Neeleman wrong?

mariner
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VEEREF
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 12):
So - the customers are the problem?

Blizzards are. It's not just the air travel system that gets balled up.
Millions of people were adversely affected by the storm. And for much longer than 8 hours.


As I posted before, 8 hours is hardly even a measurable blip in someone's life. I'll bet the people who died in that storm would gladly trade places with any of the pax on that flight.

The media hates airlines, and we always take the bait.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
VEEREF
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 12):
If they are then treated shabbily, they are going to be angry.

If I read correctly, the pax were given refunds.

Airlines don't control weather, and if they are made responsible for it in a Bill of Rights, expect to see airfares go up across the board.
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mariner
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 14):
If I read correctly, the pax were given refunds.

For their hotels? For their rental cars? For any lost business? For their emotional cost?

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 14):
expect to see airfares go up across the board.

Fine. If that is what it takes.

But much of this would not have happened if the airlines had made some "good" decisions, instead of bad.

mariner
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777STL
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 12):
Mr. Neeleman said that JetBlue made some bad decisions. Is Mr. Neeleman wrong?

No kidding. Rather ironic that everyone here is vehemently defending jet blue when even its CEO admits they screwed up.

Sorry folks, some of those pax spent 10 hours on an airplane and at the end of the day, they were right back where they started. That is cause to get upset(to a point).

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 13):
As I posted before, 8 hours is hardly even a measurable blip in someone's life. I'll bet the people who died in that storm would gladly trade places with any of the pax on that flight.

And who are you to determine what's irrelevant in someone else's life?
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AeroWesty
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 14):
Airlines don't control weather, and if they are made responsible for it in a Bill of Rights, expect to see airfares go up across the board.

I don't believe that for a moment. It's like saying Rule 240 has kept airfares at inflated levels, when in fact, airfares are at historical lows in some markets for some classes of service.

It's about humane treatment of your passengers. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't matter who died in the storm, however unfortunate that may be, if the deaths weren't on the tarmac in front of the planes, the people on the planes should be accommodated humanely.
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N666FU
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
Quoting Ptugarin (Reply 10):
I wouldn't pay much attention to a source that spells B6's name as "Jet Blue"

That's the correct spelling. "jetBlue" is merely their logotype.

Further, outside of this board and JetBlue...The rest of the world doesn't give a crap.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):

For their hotels? For their rental cars? For any lost business? For their emotional cost?

No and No, airlines don't provide those services. Emotional cost?...lol. Can't put a price on that, and people decide how they feel. Get some control over your life.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):

But much of this would not have happened if the airlines had made some "good" decisions, instead of bad.

Please enlighten us as to what they can do differently. This should be good for a laugh.
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mariner
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting N666FU (Reply 18):
Please enlighten us as to what they can do differently. This should be good for a laugh.

Perhaps you should address that question to Mr. Neeleman:

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TRAVEL/02/16/jetblue.congress.reut/

"I don't blame our customers for being upset with this," David Neeleman told CNBC television. "It was one of these things that just spiraled out of control"

Neeleman said the airline was repeatedly assured on Wednesday that the icy weather was about to clear and the planes would soon be allowed to depart. "I think we'll learn from this and we'll certainly do better in the future."


And:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...le=/c/a/2007/02/16/MNGGHO5PU71.DTL

"We didn't do a good job,'' a glum Neeleman said on CNBC's "Closing Bell'' Thursday afternoon. "We did a terrible job, actually.''

???

mariner

[Edited 2007-02-16 20:56:50]

[Edited 2007-02-16 21:01:08]
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lowrider
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 12):
So - the customers are the problem?

Yes. Not all of them, just the unreasonable ones. Sometimes circumstances are beyond any person's control. Like circumstances caused by weather. This storm was forecast for days. It is my understanding that they ran as many flights as they could, but they could only do so much. Did none of these people turn on a television or read a paper and think, "Hmm, this might impact my travel?".

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
For their hotels? For their rental cars? For any lost business? For their emotional cost?

No one compensates for these things. It is unreasonable and absurd to hold airlines accountable for what was obviously a weather problem. If you want compensation for a weather delay or cancellation, talk to God. Let me know what sort of response you get. As for emotional cost.  vomit  What is emotional cost? Do the airlines now control your emotions? Yes getting stranded sucks. Many of us have been there. Missing an appointment or an event is can be frustrating. Get over it. You are responsible for your own emotions. If you think you can go through life with an ironclad guarantee that you will always make every appointment and event, then you are destined to be disappointed.

We are not the biggest, most important, or most powerful thing in the world. If you think you can bend any circumstance to your will with sufficient yelling and threats, then you are delusional.
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mariner
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 20):
Yes. Not all of them, just the unreasonable ones.

Mr. Neeleman doesn't think they are the problem:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
"I don't blame our customers for being upset with this," David Neeleman told CNBC television.

???

mariner

[Edited 2007-02-16 21:07:31]
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AeroWesty
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting N666FU (Reply 18):
Further, outside of this board and JetBlue...The rest of the world doesn't give a crap.

Correct.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 20):
Did none of these people turn on a television or read a paper and think, "Hmm, this might impact my travel?".

I bet a bunch of them did. They just weren't expecting to be held hostage for 8-10 hours on a plane before going nowhere.

The bottom line is we've all been inconvenienced during travel to some degree or another. One can buy travel insurance if there are a lot of prepaid arrangements, but there is no insurance you can buy other than the trust a company develops, that you will be treated humanely. That the police now have to be called in says to me that JetBlue needs a crash course in both public relations and corporate conscience.
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ScottB
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting KBOS (Reply 8):
Police were called to Logan after reports of irate Jet Blue passengers.

That's about all it say's

Well, the story has been updated since there's no mention of police being called to the airport at this point. It's not clear when this incident occurred, though this thread seems to have been started in the last four hours.

If JetBlue still hasn't recovered operationally from Wednesday's storm, that doesn't speak well to the management of their operation. The fact that a big winter storm would be hitting the Midwest and East Coast was well-known several days beforehand. The storm event was over nearly 48 hours ago. If they had managed their operations during the storm properly (which includes proactively canceling operations on a relatively lightly-traveled day, Wednesday), they likely would be just about completely recovered by today.
 
boeingpride800
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:44 am

I agree 100%. People need to realize weather is no ones fault.


But okay, if you'd rather get on a plane during an ice storm or snow then go ahead. Hope you have fun skidding off the runway or crashing, after the airline cancelled to try and save your life.
 
VEEREF
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 16):
And who are you to determine what's irrelevant in someone else's life?

I'm not.
But I'd certainly rather be one of the pax stuck in a plane for 8 hours than be dead. But it seems some on here wouldn't judging by the uproar.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
For their hotels? For their rental cars? For any lost business? For their emotional cost?

Emotional cost? Please. How much pray tell should that be? What about the people stuck on highways for alot longer? What about the people with no heat or electricity?
Don't worry, I'm sure those that feel the need to be compensated for those things will call their lawyers.

In none of my posts have I claimed that jetBlue or any other airline didn't drop the ball in some way or another.
But as usual it's being blown way out of proportion, thanks again to the media. These are largely isolated events, when looking at the big picture.

Most of us here on A.net should know alot better than this. If things were perfect, people wouldn't get stuck. Airports are not perfect. ATC is not perfect. Airplanes are not perfect. Weather is not perfect.
People are not perfect.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
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mariner
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 25):
But as usual it's being blown way out of proportion, thanks again to the media. These are largely isolated events, when looking at the big picture.

It seems that Mr. Neeleman is seeing the bigger picture:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/16712845.htm

JetBlue CEO offers apology

And:

"JetBlue officials finally phoned the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs area airports, at 3 p.m. to ask for staircases and buses to get people off the planes and back to the terminal.

''We should have called them sooner,'' said JetBlue founder and Chief Executive David Neeleman.


And:

"Neeleman said he could not apologize enough.

''We should have done better,'' he said. ''There was an opportunity to do better.''


Quoting VEEREF (Reply 25):
How much pray tell should that be? What about the people stuck on highways for alot longer? What about the people with no heat or electricity?

It is pointless making those comparisons. People would get irate then, too, and who would blame them? As you say:

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 25):
People are not perfect.

Nor are airline passengers perfect.

mariner
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par13del
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:03 am

This is the second B6 thread that I'm reading, and my impression is that there are two general tones:
1. Sh*** happens, so live with it
2. The weather was bad, so what do you expect.

Here's my 2 cents.
1 is corect, things do happen, how it is handled is the issue. I would need to see more details on B6 operations just to see if they were attempting to play chicken with the weather, that is load up and see if they can get a take off slot.

2 is unacceptable by itself. Airlines, airports and OEM's assure the travelling public that their a/c and airports are safe to use in any weather, so I can't blame pax for showing up to fly when the airports is open and the airline is telling you that they are flying. How this was handled is also the issue, DL for example last week started cancelling flights in Atlanta prior to the arrival of bad weather, do we see anyone bashing DL for that?

On a side note, its interesting to see how the B6 fans handle this, I'm a WN fan myself, and their ain't been much bashing of WN recently, even though they did raise fares, go figure.
 
kevi747
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
For their emotional cost?

 laughing  Oh my God!! That was classic. People need to quit being so fragile. Boo-fricking-hoo.  sarcastic 

Quoting Boeingpride800 (Reply 24):
But okay, if you'd rather get on a plane during an ice storm or snow then go ahead. Hope you have fun skidding off the runway or crashing, after the airline cancelled to try and save your life.

Absolutely. And then (if they survived) they would all be on the news screaming and ranting about "How could an airline try to take off in weather like that?!?!?" "They should have known better!!"

But I have to say I'm enjoying watching it happen to jetBlue for a change. They've always been given a free pass in the media and they're so smug about it.  bigthumbsup 
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mariner
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 28):
Oh my God!! That was classic. People need to quit being so fragile. Boo-fricking-hoo.

Part of the "emotional cost" is that many people are nervous of flying and - unlike you - will have an emoptional investment in the journey. This will dictate how they behave in situations like this.

But - I am intrigued your great understanding of less than pefect people. It must work well for you in your job.

mariner
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SANFan
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:13 am

I haven't noticed any references (here on A.net anyway) to the horrible situation a few years ago with NW at DTW (or was it MSP, or both?) when there were tens of planes holding pax "prisoners" for hours and hours with no food, drink or restrooms... I think there was a pile of lawsuits after that experience.

I would think the cx would certainly remember that; I would think someone at B6 would have recalled what went on then!

(Sorry if I missed references to it -- maybe there have been on some of the other threads about this subject.)
bb
 
baron95
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 20):
If you want compensation for a weather delay or cancellation, talk to God.

Why not just buy travel plan insurance? It is widely available. If your flight gets cancelled and you miss the connection to board your cruise ship, etc... The insurance will re-inburse you for your actual loss. It is still tough to explain to the kids why you are in Boston and not in Cancun, but at least you have the money to try again next year.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 5):
Do they think airlines do this for fun?

No, BUT, they seem to always be totally unprepared for it and only start to scramble after the fact. There is A LOT that airlines can do. Let me give you just a few examples:
1 - The second a major storm is forecast - send out email/sms/phone notifications to ALL potentially affected passengers, explaining the implications and alternatives. This alone, will cause some passengers to anticipate or delay their travel to avoid the storm's window.
2 - The second a major storm is forecast, run computer models on the number of affected flights and STOP selling seats on subsequent flights on affected route. This will enable the airline to catch-up faster and get strandled passengers to their destination sooner.
3 - If your flights are not taking off - again contact passengers so they don't have to get to the airport and hang out there for hours or days.
4 - Information, Information, Information - Make exacting details on all flights available on multiple venues (CSR, Gate Display screens, Airport Kiosks, Internet, e-mail notifications). Reason for the delay, expected, recovery, etc, should be all clearly communicated.
5 - Don't push back to just sit on the Tarmac for hours at a time - Airlines are not entitled to keep passengers hostage in side a stationary plane for 8+ hours as it sometimes happens.
6 - Explain clearly to people, by advertising, big print on the ticket/web when and when not the airline is responsible for compensating a passenger - most people don't know and waste time arguing. Educate your customers.
7 - Train your CSRs, gate agents, etc better - They need to start every sentence with a "I am sorry your travel plans were disrupted. I will explains what I propose you do about it. Then I'll listen to you if it is not acceptable and see if we can do better."

Simple stuff. Any other business knows about this. A delay of 8 hours (let alone 24 hours), given the busy and overcomitted lives of most Americans is a MAJOR disruption. If Airlines don't understand that, there is no hope of them ever doing the right thing.
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MD95
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 25):
Emotional cost? Please. How much pray tell should that be? What about the people stuck on highways for alot longer? What about the people with no heat or electricity?
Don't worry, I'm sure those that feel the need to be compensated for those things will call their lawyers

What about bringing people back to the terminal. The excuse that there were no available gate is extremely pathetic given the fact that you can always push back an empty plane to make room to a full one. These pain could have been alleviated by B6 without any problem and for this they should be held responsible .

Quoting Mariner (Reply 26):
''We should have called them sooner,'' said JetBlue founder and Chief Executive David Neeleman.

He is much more intelligent than some people in the terminal actually handlig the planes.
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SANFan
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting MD95 (Reply 32):
He is much more intelligent than some people in the terminal actually handlig the planes.

The thing is, most airline employees, whether they be CSRs, dispatchers, f/as, bookkeepers, ramp rats or executives, travel by airplane a lot, right? (It's one of the few benies left in the industry!) I would think every one of them would be very aware that THEY could very well be one of those pax sitting on the planes for 8 hours (either on their own airline or on another cx) and do all possible to make sure the situation doesn't reach that point.

A little empathy can (and should) go a long way...

bb
 
Maverick623
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:25 am

I think a lot of the arguing on this board stems from misunderstanding each other.

First, like Mariner said, it was a damn shame that those pax had to be stuck on an airplane for 8 hours in the holding bay. I fully believe that B6 should (and apparently they did) reimburse all those passengers. I got stuck on an AA airplane in the bullpen for a little over 2 hours in PHX last March, because of a ground stop at ORD, and according to American "they needed the gate". I (and all the other pax) were mad as hell that we were on this cramped airplane with no timetable for takeoff. And that was only 2 hours.

Secondly, as most of the rest of you are saying, airlines can't control the weather, and pax need to plan for what may come. I knew the night before that flight that I would probably get to ORD late and miss my connection to MAN. Luckily for me, I was going on vacation and my first stop was a relative's house, so no money lost there. I know it's different for the business traveller, but again: no one, not the traveller, not the associates at the meeting he/she is flying to, should get their knickers in a bunch because of canceled flights due to weather.

Once again, B6 definitely dropped the ball on those couple of flights, but as for the rest of the pax who are making an unnecessary scene about it, I say bring a book or two and don't take it out on the CSRs.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
747hogg
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:29 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:08 am

Well! did you have to sit on your ass for 11 hours and snort the funk from the crap filled toilet's.... while babies cried and people fumed? Hell no! you just sat in your room and went on line to express your love for jet screw! I wish you were on that plane...... someday pal... you will see what it like to be in jail and your sorry government will not help you!
 
necigrad
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:25 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting Par13del (Reply 27):
Airlines, airports and OEM's assure the travelling public that their a/c and airports are safe to use in any weather, so I can't blame pax for showing up to fly when the airports is open and the airline is telling you that they are flying.

I'm sorry, where is that? I know of not one airline that has said that, and the only airport I can think of is AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN, and they've since been corrected. Aircraft travel is perfectly safe WHEN WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE AIRCRAFT AND AIRPORT. That's all. Airplanes aren't safe in any weather, and no one has said that. Of course, if anyone WANT'S to believe that, get a pilots license, buy a Cessna, and fly through a tornado. It's safe, or so you say.

The airline may well tell you they're flying. If the airline believes that there's a reasonable chance of getting a flight out, they want the passengers there. Imagine the outrage is an airline told the passengers to not show up because they're not flying, and then the passengers finds out the flight left. It's bad enough when passengers dont' understand how a "timed out crew" or a broken aircraft can still fly.

The way the law is written, airlines are not responsible for anything weather related. There is a reason for this. If you hold the airlines responsible they may become more likely to complete a flight, even if it may be unsafe. The Government doens't want that. The government gives any crewmeber access to anonymous reporting (ASRS) simply to let the government know of a possible problem, without punishment. If I make an error in loading an aircraft, I have access to self disclosure without penalty for the exact same reason. You do NOT put someone in a position like what's suggested because it's unsafe. We will still get you to your destination. We will do it safely. We will do it in a manner that is as prompt as practical. If you don't like the service, think about it for a week after you complete your trip. THEN call customer service and complain, but listen to what they have to say. You may well be right, and if so the airline may compensate you if they haven't already. If you're STILL not happy with the result then, go to another airline. We'll (hopefully) still be there when you come back because of the same "substandard" service at the other airline.
 
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par13del
Posts: 10612
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RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:39 am

Necigrad, I think you take it literally, so you are absolutely correct with all your technical points.

My point was that the airport authorities did not close JFK and B6 did not cancel flights, so pax showed up for their flights in spite of the weather because in spite of the weather the airport was open for business and so was B6, that they got stranded on an a/c for 8 hours is tough. I notice today they sure cancelled a lot of flights before they had to return to the gate, guess everyone learned something.

I take all your points and stand corrected.

Cheers
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15121
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 3):
It's amazing how we get so balled up over things like this but we forget to stop, back out just a bit and realize there a probably a billion or so people in this world who wish that this was the extent of their troubles.

Sorry, but if everyone in the world had an attitude like that, nothing would get done, nobody would demand high quality or professionalism, and companies would have the ability to just walk all over their customers.

Would you tell someone who broke their back and can no longer walk that their condition is mundane because other people have broken necks and can't use their arms, either? Who is the arbiter of what people are allowed to get upset about?

Everyone in the world has problems. You don't know where some of the people who've been stuck needed to go or for what reason. Maybe it was a matter of life or death. Or an important event like a funeral or wedding or birth of a child. Those things matter, universally, to everyone. Missing them is something you can't reschedule.

I say this because I was lucky to just miss all of this mess this past week, when I traveled to new york to a funeral for my grandfather and then got out in time to see my newborn nephew in Florida. Would you tell me to stop complaining if I missed the funeral and didn't get a chance to say goodbye and be there for my dad, aunt and other family members?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
747hogg
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:29 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:04 am

Screw Jet Blue! I hope they vanish and go tits up because of this! 11 goddamn hours? BULLSHIT!
 
VEEREF
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:55 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 38):
Sorry, but if everyone in the world had an attitude like that, nothing would get done, nobody would demand high quality or professionalism, and companies would have the ability to just walk all over their customers.

Would you tell someone who broke their back and can no longer walk that their condition is mundane because other people have broken necks and can't use their arms, either? Who is the arbiter of what people are allowed to get upset about?

Everyone in the world has problems. You don't know where some of the people who've been stuck needed to go or for what reason. Maybe it was a matter of life or death. Or an important event like a funeral or wedding or birth of a child. Those things matter, universally, to everyone. Missing them is something you can't reschedule.

I say this because I was lucky to just miss all of this mess this past week, when I traveled to new york to a funeral for my grandfather and then got out in time to see my newborn nephew in Florida. Would you tell me to stop complaining if I missed the funeral and didn't get a chance to say goodbye and be there for my dad, aunt and other family members?

Good point. This is really between B6 and the pax that were stuck. I fly freight so I don't even have a dog in the fight. The fact there are 127 posts on the subject by people including myself who weren't even there is pointless.

Fly safe.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 38):
Would you tell me to stop complaining if I missed the funeral and didn't get a chance to say goodbye and be there for my dad, aunt and other family members?

No, but you need to realize none of those reasons make you special, nor can make a flight depart. Everyone has valid reasons to travel, otherwise they wouldn't do it. You funeral or the birth of your nephew may be a big deal to you, but if you miss it because of weather, others will understand and life will go on. You may feel bad, but that is about the extent of the harm.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
Mr. Neeleman doesn't think they are the problem:

Mr. Neeleman is not a complete idiot. He is not going to get on national television and tell people that some of them were behaving like spoiled children. Its called public relations. Sometimes it resembles the truth.

About once every couple of years somthing like this happens and people swear up and down how the airlines should be punished and how terrible it is. You would think people would learn...
Proud OOTSK member
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 3):
there a probably a billion or so people in this world who wish that this was the extent of their troubles.

At least 4 billion people would probably be much closer to an accurate number. Sad Here in the U.S. we are rapidly approaching a point where so many people have become so crassly self-centered that our society as we have known it is on the verge of becoming dysfunctional to the point of essential paralysis. Infantile outbursts by airline pax are nothing more than a telling symptom of an increasingly pervasive mindset among people in the U.S.
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3582
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:01 am

Quoting Kevi747 (Reply 28):
Oh my God!! That was classic. People need to quit being so fragile. Boo-fricking-hoo.

How about I lock you in a sealed room with no air circulation and no food for 11 hours and put an overflowing toilet next to you halfway through and we'll see how "fragile" you are afterwards.

How about you pay me several hundred dollars in advance for the privilege. How about instead of telling you I'm going to lock you in that sealed room for 11 hours, I instead tell you I'm taking you on a trip to Cancun. I ask you to bring all your best beach wear with you. Then I sit and laugh while you stew in your locked room and do nothing to help you.

It is absolutely frickin' amazing to me that people will defend an airline to the death in here even to the disagreement of the airline's CEO.

JetBlue screwed up. They continue to screw up. End. Of. Story.

Who is more fragile, a passenger who is tired of being inconvenienced two days after a snow event, or a bunch of a.netters who are so emotionally invested in a transportation company (of all things) that they can't seem to admit that any airline could ever possibly be in the wrong?

[Edited 2007-02-17 03:02:21]
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
adizzy
Topic Author
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:27 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:01 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 22):
They just weren't expecting to be held hostage for 8-10 hours on a plane before going nowhere.



Quoting 747hogg (Reply 39):
11 goddamn hours?



Quoting 747hogg (Reply 35):
did you have to sit on your ass for 11 hours and snort the funk fr

I am sorry for those who got stuck on the planr for that long, but i must say that they got lucky and atleast got stuck on a plane with comfy seats and thier own personal TV to remain entertained! It happened to United a few months ago and will continue to happen over and over again.

I am sure that other airlines had the same thing happen to them that day, but thier low loads did not get enough noise to become national news! I just say it could have been worse!
 
spacecadet
Posts: 3582
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:03 am

Quoting ADiZzy (Reply 44):
I am sorry for those who got stuck on the planr for that long, but i must say that they got lucky and atleast got stuck on a plane with comfy seats and thier own personal TV

The PTV's only worked for the first 3 hours, after which they shut the power off.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
adizzy
Topic Author
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:27 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:17 am

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 45):
The PTV's only worked for the first 3 hours, after which they shut the power off.

Three hours is still better than NONE at all. Like i said above I was supposed to travel with them and understand that weather happened....im not justifying JetBlues actions- but I am not going to justify the actions of the travels-who at the expense of safety would have rather have flown out in the storm. Yes, they did not need to be trapped in the plane for all those hours if they were not going anywhere- but maybe conditions got worse after pushback and it was no longer safe for them to taxi back to the gate and so forth!

I think JetBlue needs to have some reserve aircraft to help with these situations. It seems as if all of their metal is always on the move...if they had a few extra planes I- I think they would have less trouble during these abnormal operations.


How many flights were boarded and pushed back loaded and forced to wait for this exteneded period of time?
 
YYZatcboy
Posts: 1196
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:44 am

There was a stand up comedian who was advocating a brain detector, if you failed the brain detector you had to take greyhound.
DH1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30/50/80 717 727 735/6/7/8/9 744 762/3 77E/W 788/789 E40/75/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150
J/S DH8D 736/7/8 763
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:52 am

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 41):
You would think people would learn...

Would learn - what?

No one is complaining that the aircraft couldn't get off the ground. Everyone understands that the weather was bad.

They are complaining because (among other things) they were kept trapped inside those aircraft for an extraordinary length of time. At least according to Mr. Neeleman, they could have been taken off hours earlier than they were.

So I am not clear what it is that people should learn?

mariner

[Edited 2007-02-17 04:22:05]
aeternum nauta
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Irate JetBlue Passengers IN BOS Police Called In

Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:22 pm

First let me say I am not a particular fan of JetBlue. However, I do think they seem to be getting singled out here. Yes, they probably made some bad decisions, but they aren't the first to have stranded passengers and they certainly won't be the last. I do think they at least were somewhat proactive in immediately announcing refunds and free tickets, something NW hedged on during that disaster at DTW a few years back.

I'm a pretty seasoned road warrior, I do 200K miles a year, many in the northeast. The longest I've ever sat on a plane was 4 hours awaiting takeoff at ORD for a weather delay in DFW. I'm torn in my opinions on these issues, as a passenger and as someone who has many friends employed by airlines.

As for sitting on a tarmac/taxiway awaiting takeoff, this is understandable. The gate you have left is most likely in use, you do not want to lose your slot in line for whenever the opportunity for takeoff does come available. The issue of arriving passengers having to wait up to 8-9 hours is much more problematic. Again, I realize gates are full. However, what is the purpose of letting the pax sit on the plane? It would seem logical to taxi to a stand, use air stairs and bus the pax to the terminal. Yes, I see the potential issues there. Severe overcrowding in the terminal for one. Baggage claim another. Somehow, I think those pax would be far less disgruntled if they at least were off the plane, albeit in a crowded terminal. They'd at least have some sense of freedom, ability to move around, or just return home if they desired. I don't understand making pax sit on an arriving flight if it could be deboarded. A jet bridge isn't necessary, and certainly airports such as JFK or BOS "should" have mobile air stairs. Perhaps the lack of ramp space prohibits this, or lack of buses. Not sure. I'd welcome feedback on this from rampers or others in the business. Keep it nice though?  Smile

This just isn't a pretty situation and I have seen how stressed people get and how irate some become. I'm not sure how I would react after 8 or 10 hours. The fact Neelman admitted B6 made some judgemental errors is a start. I haven't heard much press on what was going on at the other airlines. I'm guessing it wasn't much better.

Solutions? No easy ones I think.

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