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knope2001
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JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:30 pm

Sounds like JetBlue is throwing in the towel on the entire E190 system for 48 hours with the hopes of starting fresh on Monday. Seems awully drastic to just flat-out park everything for two days during a period of good weather. The President's Day weekend usually marks that start of the heavy spring vacation travel period.


http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/070217/113952.html

JetBlue Airways Pre-Cancels 23 Percent of its Scheduled Flights for Feb. 17 and Feb. 18, 2007
Saturday February 17, 5:56 am ET


NEW YORK, Feb. 17, 2007 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- JetBlue Airways today announces that it has pre-cancelled 23 percent of its Saturday, Feb. 17 and Sunday, Feb. 18 schedule in order to reset the operation by positioning all aircraft and allowing flight crews to reset their operating clocks. Further cancellations may occur throughout the operating days.
The airline has canceled all flights to and from the following cities for Saturday, Feb. 17 and Sunday Feb. 18:



Austin, TX
Bermuda
Charlotte, NC
Columbus, OH
Houston, TX
Jacksonville, FL
Nashville, TN
Pittsburgh, PA
Portland, ME
Raleigh/Durham, NC
Richmond, VA

Flights to other JetBlue destinations may be impacted as well. Customers are asked to check the status of their flight online at http://www.jetblue.com. Customers whose flights have been cancelled will be granted full refunds or JetBlue credit, or may choose to rebook their travel through May 22, 2007.

Refunds and credits may be obtained through http://www.jetblue.com. Customers may rebook their travel by calling 800-JETBLUE (800-325-2583). Call volume is high; customers may have difficulty getting through to reservations. Customers may rebook via 800-JETBLUE anytime through May 22.

JetBlue attempted to recover from the Feb. 14 ice storm by selectively canceling flights on Feb. 15 and Feb. 16 in order to help reset the airline's operation. The benefits of this action were mitigated by further operational constraints at JFK, including a one runway operation on Feb. 15, which resulted in long delays that flowed into Feb. 16.

JetBlue is taking this aggressive, unprecedented action to end rolling delays and cancellations, and to operate a new schedule reliably
 
bucky707
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
Sounds like JetBlue is throwing in the towel on the entire E190 system

are you sure they are parking all the 190s? Among the destinations listed is Bermuda, and I have heard nothing of them flying the 190 to Bermuda.
 
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knope2001
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:10 pm

I'm sure it is not that all E190 flights are axed and all A320 flights are operating. With the mess they had I'm sure some 320 trips are probably cut as well.

I noticed the press release does not specifically say the 190's are being parked for the weekend. I heard that discussed elsewhere. I thought the press release said exactly that but it does not. Playing around on the JetBlue site seeing what flighes are for sale pretty much confirms no E190 flying this weekend, though.
 
A342
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:12 pm

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 1):
Among the destinations listed is Bermuda, and I have heard nothing of them flying the 190 to Bermuda.

They have indeed used it to BDA.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
hiflyer
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:24 pm

The wheels seem to be coming off at B6. I was suprised when folks were posting that B6 was removing seats from their 320's to reduce weight and flt att's, then was chartering 757 and DC10 to give them lift. Then the storm fiasco. Last night they were throwing out ground stops left and right into JFK for their own aircraft...revising and revising.

And now this.

Obviously they have sold to the public a schedule they cannot operate.

The chartering of aircraft for additional lift is quite puzzling on many points. It almost looks like they were spiraling down desperately chasing a revenue stream at all costs.

This is bad at many levels including safety, financial, and public relations. B6 employees have a right to be scratching their heads trying to figure out how they got this messed up in the last 6 months.

Needless to say there will be changes at B6 in the top levels in the next 30 days...whether stated related to this or not.
 
bucky707
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 3):
They have indeed used it to BDA.

Thanks. I had not heard about it.
 
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knope2001
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:56 pm

I have not kept up with the threads on their charters (D10/757 etc) iand it may have already been said in one of those, but I suspect those are emergency charters to relieve the backlog of stranded passengers.

A key problem JetBlue has experienced over and over and over again is that when they run into operational adversity they can't recover in a reasonable fashion. They don't have recipricol agreements with other airlines to send their passengers over when they cancel. So when things cancel or get seriously delayed, all they can do is just keep flying what they can. At lower-traffic times they can cancel a flight and put the passengers on a different JetBlue flight. Everybody does this. But at higher-demand times all they can do is fly as much of the original schedule as they can, no matter how many hours late it runs. That's why in peak months JetBlue's on-time performance is often dismal.

Sure, horrible weather can screw any airline's operations. Denver took days to unwrap in December from being shut down. But that was right before Christmas when all airlines are mostly full in every direction. JetBlue seems to melt down to a greater degree, in less extreme cases, and takes a lot longer to recover.

I believe they have to beef up their reserves (aircraft and crews) significantly during peak times. That defintiely costs more but they are really wrecking their better-than-average image when they have excessively bad performance that leads to rather public horror stories like those from the past few days and the next couple.
 
B757capt
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:15 am

This is not going to be good PR for Jet Blue at all. I'm very sorry to hear this.
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:29 am

Not saying that it was the wrong thing to do, but with such big operations at BOS and JFK something was bound to happen sometime. I agree that cutting costs to the point of being too thin leaves any carrier vulnerable. Here's Exhibit A.

Chris in NH
 
JAAlbert
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 4):
Obviously they have sold to the public a schedule they cannot operate.

. . . in inclement weather

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 6):
A key problem JetBlue has experienced over and over and over again is that when they run into operational adversity they can't recover in a reasonable fashion. They don't have recipricol agreements with other airlines to send their passengers over when they cancel. So when things cancel or get seriously delayed, all they can do is just keep flying what they can.

Interesting point and followed by a discussion about what could be done to resolve the problem! Thank you knope2001!

So how does WN handle these sorts of situations? Does WN have reciprocal agreements or additional capacity/crews on standby?
 
hiflyer
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:42 am

Not an E190 in the sky right now....that does give them additional flt att's and reduces terminal congestion for aircraft. They still have a charter 757 running ATLJFK. However, I'm not sure how many pilots they would have that are current in both fleets that could help thru this situation....

Their frontline counter agents must be getting hammered...shame.
 
EMBQA
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:44 am

Where does it say they are canceling all the E190 flights for two days.......????? They are just canceling flights to 11 cities...some of which are not E190 cities. I agree they need to rest teh crews and get things back on track. The scheduled 1030p flight into BNA didn't arrive until nearly 0330a.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:49 am

I like jetblue, but this is poor operational management. To blanket cancel all 190 lines does no good. You actually need to move some of the airplanes and crews to get them in position to operate. May as well fly them 121...

I know they can't go 100% after the last few days, but this is not the smartest way to recover the operation.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
AASTEW
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:49 am

Just waiting for a B6 defender! Why is B6 going though all these drastic measures. All the other experienced airlines are bouncing back albeit slowly!

AASTEW
 
LGA777
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:51 am

Part of the problem is during heavy travel times like this they don't plan a normal schedule, they schedule many extra flights late at night and very early in the morning in markets like JFK-FLL and JFK-SJU and more. Since they cannot operate even a normal schedule the several thousand extra customers per night on these extra flights that are likely cancelled or severely delayed, just adds to the frustration and aggrevation. I spent several hours listening to JFK ground Friday night and every B6 JFK arrival waited for a gate, at times for over an hour or more and at times more than 5 aircraft where waiting. Every B6 pilot I heard on the radio was proffesional and I did not hear one loose their cool but you could hear significant frustration in many of their voices. Allthough I have many friends and former colleages at B6 I think they are in a dangerous spiral out of control and they need to at least stop ALL growth, new aircraft and cites, and perhaps reduce their fleet and stations for a while so they can try and manage what they have, since they can't seem to now. And BTW things did not seem to smooth over at DL last night either, they had long lines for a gate on inbounds also, many over an hour !

Regards

LGA777
 
LGA777
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:58 am

Two more comments to add. If the 190's are grounded what about JFK-BOS and JFK-IAD, their mini Shuttles ? Also all three major network national news ran additional stories on B6 Friday night about how operations had not returned to normal on day 3 and how most flights where delayed by hours or cancelled. And unfortuanlty for B6 none of them mentioned that B6 was purchasing extra lift from Omni, North American, and ATA as this is positive news for them !

Regards

LGA777
 
LGA777
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:11 am

Look at this reposition

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU9009

LGA777
 
skyyblue
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:13 am

It is true, ALL E190 flights are cancelled through Sunday. Flight Attendants working these flights are being reassigned at the airport to A320 pairings.

The shit hit the fan this year and once again, we were not prepared. Last year, I was on a plane stuck on the taxiways of JFK for over seven hours because of JetBlue's stupidity. I don't think I could endure that trauma for a second year in a row. The company knows they really effed up this time.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:20 am

This is really going to hurt their sort-of shuttle type operation. Most of those flights are E190 operated, and most are cancelled. That is bad, considering how incredibly important it is to keep those passengers happy, as many of them are very frequent travelers.
Good goes around!
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:24 am

This indeed is bad, but I guess it's the only thing that will stop the horrible domino ripple-effect that this industry is known for.

At least my flight on Monday is still scheduled to operate...JFK-FLL. I'll go to JFK early to survey attitudes of passengers and crew members. It's not going to be pretty, that's for sure.

JetBluefan1
 
EMBQA
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 12):
You actually need to move some of the airplanes and crews to get them in position to operate. May as well fly them 121...

No...because you can move them Part 91, outside the Part 121 rest requirments.....plus you don't need FA's
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 20):
Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 12):
You actually need to move some of the airplanes and crews to get them in position to operate. May as well fly them 121...

No...because you can move them Part 91, outside the Part 121 rest requirments.....plus you don't need FA's

But, wouldn't it make sense to run them 121 and earn SOME revenue? I'm just wondering, since I've never seen an operational disruption like this. I remember reading that way back when, WN used to sell seats on their repositioning flights just to earn some extra revenue. I know these already have people booked on them, so why not move them if possible?
Good goes around!
 
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RobK
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:32 am

Just heard a JetBlue 757-300 on HF SJU-JFK, JBU4121. Wondered what it was but selcal has it down as N550TZ of Amtran.

 confused 

R
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting RobK (Reply 22):
Just heard a JetBlue 757-300 on HF SJU-JFK, JBU4121. Wondered what it was but selcal has it down as N550TZ of Amtran.

There's another post on some JetBlue listed flights being operated by 757s. I wonder what the deal is. The flight numbers so far haven't matched up with the schedule, either.
Good goes around!
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 4):
The wheels seem to be coming off at B6. I was suprised when folks were posting that B6 was removing seats from their 320's to reduce weight and flt att's, then was chartering 757 and DC10 to give them lift.

OK, tell me which other airlines in the past have chartered flights to get the passengers out. DId UA or F9 when DIA was recently hit with bad weather. NO.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
roseflyer
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:56 am

It is a bold move trying to blanket cancel many flights to get caught up. I think B6 isn't as adept to handling winter storms as probably UA and AA are since those airlines have to deal with ORD. However getting the overworked crews the rest periods the legally and physically need is a good thing.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
HPAEAA
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 4):
The wheels seem to be coming off at B6. I was suprised when folks were posting that B6 was removing seats from their 320's to reduce weight and flt att's, then was chartering 757 and DC10 to give them lift. Then the storm fiasco. Last night they were throwing out ground stops left and right into JFK for their own aircraft...revising and revising.

Well, everyone has storms to deal with DEN seems to pop into my head... CLE also got hit... props to them canceling smaller aircraft and bringing in larger a/c to help move the passengers... I admit I admire them for that... as for reducing the A320's capacity by 6 to the 150 mark, another smart business decision... since their load factor is not 100 percent, on average those 6 seats fly empty... yet they still require an extra FA on board, by reducing, they can drop to 3 FA's on each flight and save a fortune on payroll... again, It's about time I'm surprised it took them this long to do it....

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 4):
The chartering of aircraft for additional lift is quite puzzling on many points. It almost looks like they were spiraling down desperately chasing a revenue stream at all costs.



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 24):
OK, tell me which other airlines in the past have chartered flights to get the passengers out. DId UA or F9 when DIA was recently hit with bad weather. NO.

Most airlines don't charter aircraft but rather rotate in larger aircraft to add the extra capacity... we saw it with DEN a couple months ago where extra widebodies were flown in... since B6 doesn't have larger aircraft they have to charter them...
1.4mm and counting...
 
motopolitico
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:07 am

This comes down to two glaring flaws in B6's business model:
1. 2 fleet types. Them parking the E-jets is proof positive that two fleet types are too many for them.

2. They are not point-to-point operators. JFK is a HUB, not a focus city.

This past summer, when HOU had to close due to flooding, the only cancellations on WN were flights to and from HOU. I was flying MHT-BWI-SDF that day, and was shocked at how little pandemonium there actually was. That's because WN truly seems to be a point-to-point carrier, and closing a single station or even more than one does not have nearly the ripple effect of closing a hub. Now I'm sure that there was a lot of scurrying going on behind the scenes to get crews and equipment where they needed to be, and maybe OPNL Guy can let us in on what that's like, but the fact that Wn operates a simple fleet and flies point to point had to have made their job easier. I think the single biggest thing B6 can do to help themselves is, if they can't de-hub JFK, they should at least CONNECT THE DOTS. They could fill jets flying direct BTV-FLL, so why don't they?
Garbage stinks; trash don't!
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 26):
Most airlines don't charter aircraft but rather rotate in larger aircraft to add the extra capacity... we saw it with DEN a couple months ago where extra widebodies were flown in... since B6 doesn't have larger aircraft they have to charter them...

No lets me honest they do not have to charter, they could have the passengers fly stand by for days or just offer a refund.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
EMBQA
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 21):
ut, wouldn't it make sense to run them 121 and earn SOME revenue?

Nope. Because if you fly them Part 121 you need to fly under those regulations. You still need to move the planes so do it Part 91.... No FA requirments, No rest requirments.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
WesternA318
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 8):
but with such big operations at BOS and JFK something was bound to happen sometime.

I dont get what your saying. AA and UA are big players in both those cities as well, and they didn't have to az a whole fleet type to get "back on track".


Quoting LGA777 (Reply 16):
Look at this reposition

LOL, it would probably beat the gridlock on the Van Wyck thats for sure!

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 25):
I think B6 isn't as adept to handling winter storms as probably UA and AA are since those airlines have to deal with ORD.

They also have to deal with JFK and BOS as well. When Neeleman ran Morris Air, did they ever do something this abrupt? I was too young to remember (or care).

Quoting Motopolitico (Reply 27):
This comes down to two glaring flaws in B6's business model:
1. 2 fleet types. Them parking the E-jets is proof positive that two fleet types are too many for them.

2. They are not point-to-point operators. JFK is a HUB, not a focus city.

Frontier ran a 2-type fleet when they introduced the Airbuses. Granted the 733's were on their way out, but still for a few years, it was a 2-type fleet, and through these wicked Rocky Mtn. winters.

NYC is a hub to several airlines, DL B6 and AA at JFK, and CO at EWR. You could even say LGA is a US hub with all their activity. so what? Just because you fly out of a hub doesnt mean you have a flawed biz plan. Look at AirTran out of ATL, F9 out of DEN, or AS out of SEA.
 
reins485
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 25):
I think B6 isn't as adept to handling winter storms as probably UA and AA are since those airlines have to deal with ORD.

Part of it, I think stems from the fact that B6 won't just cancel flights for the rest of the day out of a city. AA started their block canceling in 1990 and many people said why not try to at least operate some flights. AA realized that it would be easier to cancel every flight and start over the next day. That way there are no legal issues with the crews and so they can get the schedule restarted on time the next day. If you are going to upset your passengers better to upset the fewest possible, which by canceling flights for the rest of the day, would minimize the number of passengers inconvenienced by the delays.
 
lostturttle
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:48 am

I was wondering why "spot 1" had an E190 parked for the last two days..........(Bermuda)
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 9):
So how does WN handle these sorts of situations? Does WN have reciprocal agreements or additional capacity/crews on standby?



Quoting Motopolitico (Reply 27):
This past summer, when HOU had to close due to flooding, the only cancellations on WN were flights to and from HOU. I was flying MHT-BWI-SDF that day, and was shocked at how little pandemonium there actually was. That's because WN truly seems to be a point-to-point carrier, and closing a single station or even more than one does not have nearly the ripple effect of closing a hub. Now I'm sure that there was a lot of scurrying going on behind the scenes to get crews and equipment where they needed to be, and maybe OPNL Guy can let us in on what that's like, but the fact that Wn operates a simple fleet and flies point to point had to have made their job easier. I think the single biggest thing B6 can do to help themselves is, if they can't de-hub JFK, they should at least CONNECT THE DOTS. They could fill jets flying direct BTV-FLL, so why don't they?

There's your answer. I was gonna say it, but Motopolitico said it for me. In WN's network, it is possible to connect at any station to go to another station. This will add legs and time to your journey, but you will get their faster than with an airline with one major hub and two minor ones.
I love ASO!
 
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par13del
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:09 am

This is the result of not being proactive prior to the big storm hitting, they now have two choices, both difficult and both will hurt. What they are doing now is one, mass cancellations of some flights, allows equipment to be moved aside freeing up gates, reduce crewing, ensures rested crews are available when weather clears or the holidays is over, gives overworked ramp and ground staff a break, also allows repairs of equipment, mech's and engineers are gonna get it.

The other is to carry on as if nothing has happened and continue to attempt to run a full schedule, delays will now be in the terminal awaiting inbound a/c and ground staff will be racking up overtime and flight crews will be out of duty time, maybe for days and ground staff will be calling in sick because of exhaustion.

Chartering is a good idea, allows them to cater for their pax without using their own metal and crews. Unfortunately, its expensive in the short run, as in right now they are loosing money on these charters, however, it does speed up the return to normal operations.

Any way you cut it, this storm and how is was handled has cost B6 money, like the fuel stops last year, one can only hope that they learn from it and avoid a repeat. This year their fuel stops were minimal at best, weather permitting, so at least they got a break there. Guess the end / start of the year are not good times for B6.
 
chris133
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 9):
So how does WN handle these sorts of situations? Does WN have reciprocal agreements or additional capacity/crews on standby?

WN does not have any reciprocal agreements with anyone, nor do they have extra A/C or crews. That is one of the biggest pluses of having one aircraft type, they are all enter changeable. The only real limiting factor is when the A/C MX is due and getting them to the right MX base to do it. WN seems to have recovered very well, especially considering that they had 2 of their 4 largest operation shut down at the same time as well as up to 13 smaller ops.
 
coleplane
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Motopolitico (Reply 27):
two glaring flaws in B6's business model:
1. 2 fleet types. Them parking the E-jets is proof positive that two fleet types are too many for them.

Exactly my thoughts. When news broke B6 was introducing a new type, my first thought was - how to screw up an airline 101. Are B6 and WN not the envy of the US airline industry right now? Both are (or were) exceeding in an extremely tough environment and shared no less than one thing in common - fleet commonality. On a grand scale both have impacted how other carriers look at their own cost structures. Then came news B6 should have hedged their fuel contracts further out... then a new fleet type's being introduced.

I will never understand this decision when it appears to me the majority of the other US carriers are moving in the opposite direction. I wish B6 well and hope the consequences are short term.
"About a nine on the tension scale there Rupe."
 
VictorKilo
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RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 6):

Sure, horrible weather can screw any airline's operations. Denver took days to unwrap in December from being shut down. But that was right before Christmas when all airlines are mostly full in every direction. JetBlue seems to melt down to a greater degree, in less extreme cases, and takes a lot longer to recover.

I believe they have to beef up their reserves (aircraft and crews) significantly during peak times. That definitely costs more but they are really wrecking their better-than-average image when they have excessively bad performance that leads to rather public horror stories like those from the past few days and the next couple.

Part of why B6 has been so successful, IMO, is that they have been able to convince folks that their on-board product, with DirectTV and such, is better than the competition. But if the public starts to think that B6 is unreliable, that will negate any competitive advantage their product may bring them - especially during the winter months.

For example, flying from where I currently live to my hometown (CMI) for Thanksgiving and Christmas would significantly reduce my travel time home. But usually the only affordable ticket is on AA via ORD. And I know that, should their be any sort of weather delays at ORD, usually one of the first routes that they tend to cancel is ORD-CMI, putting passengers on buses and freeing up those slots/aircraft/crew for other, longer routes. But if I have a 4-hour bus ride in between ORD and CMI rather than a 45 minute flight, it makes it longer for me to get home than if I had just driven in the first place. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with AA canceling the ORD-CMI flight first from an airport operations perspective, I'm saying that as a customer I know this and I take it into account when choosing to purchase an airline ticket on AA - and I chose not to fly them during that time of year.

B6's operational instability pushes its customers, especially its most frequent customers, into the arms of its rivals, and at least partially negates the competitive advantage of its on-board product. The really bad part for B6 is that there's no amount of advertising it can do to prove to folks that it's a reliable airline during major weather. It will have to demonstrate this through its actions during the next major weather event.

B6 may not serve STL yet, but many of its customers will make a Missouri demand: Show Me.
 
CO738
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 12:05 pm

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:31 am

Ya'll are forgetting the DC-10 that they have ahd to charter to get people out of BOS and JFK who have been there since Wednesday... which reminds me where the heck did they get 2-4 DC-10's from? and i got my info from ABC this morning.
If only you could install an air horn on a plane...
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 4):
Obviously they have sold to the public a schedule they cannot operate.

So too have the U.S. legacy airlines sold to the public a schedule they cannot operate...when major storms effect their operations. However, it is very apparent that jetBlue has proven to be far less proficient in dealing with the latest snowstorm than the manner in which the legacies and other LCCs have managed to get "back on their feet" in comparable or even more disruptive conditions in recent weeks.
 
coleplane
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:54 pm

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting CO738 (Reply 38):
where the heck did they get 2-4 DC-10's from

OAI.  cheerful 
"About a nine on the tension scale there Rupe."
 
skyzheimers
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:57 pm

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:14 am

I remember how surprised I was when Jetblue announced adding the E190 to their fleet instead of the smaller Airbuses! While the break-even loads might be lower for the Embraers... for the Jetblue operation it added complexity and therefor cost... wonder if they would have had as much of a mess on their hands had they stayed within the A320 family of aircrafts with their commonality for crews?
 
Chugach
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:19 am

Although different circumstances, this eerily sounds like the 2005 Summer of Hell that AS endured, where the airline simply over-extended itself and wound up completely axing some routes (ANC-PHX for example) and reducing service in others to reduce overall delays.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting Motopolitico (Reply 27):
Now I'm sure that there was a lot of scurrying going on behind the scenes to get crews and equipment where they needed to be, and maybe OPNL Guy can let us in on what that's like, but the fact that Wn operates a simple fleet and flies point to point had to have made their job easier.

I've pretty much given up trying to put out any behind the scenes information on this weather event, since it seems the vast majority have no desire to consider any of it and instead prefer to flame jetBlue at any/every opportunity.

That said, fleet type and point-to-point are factors (to a degree) but another is geographic location.

For example, if a blizzard simultaneously takes out DEN, MCI, OKC, TUL, OMA, LIT, and STL to the point where we couldn't operate, we'd overfly everything. A BWI-MCI-LAX flight would go BWI-LAX non-stop, and there would plenty of other oddball non-stop routes. We'd still have a route system east and west of the affected area, as well as north and south of the affected area. We also have 485 aircraft, which in itself adds to flexibility.

By virtue of jetBlue's hub location in a far "corner" of the country, "flowing" ther operations over the weather-impacted area is far more problematic, and flights can't get to the "other side" of things. Anything north-northeast of JFK is too close to JFK and will undoubtedly be getting the same type of weater that's messing JFK up. To east, you have all that water, and BDA can only hold so many aircraft, not that you'd want to send that many there anyway. Anything from Florida overflying JFK can't go to places north-northeast of JFK (due to weather mentioned above). So, they have a far more limited range of options to work with.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:41 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
Sounds like JetBlue is throwing in the towel on the entire E190 system for 48 hours with the hopes of starting fresh on Monday. Seems awully drastic to just flat-out park everything for two days during a period of good weather. The President's Day weekend usually marks that start of the heavy spring vacation travel period.

I wonder where the people are who screamed over and over that WN needed to copy B6 and add smaller planes to their network. It really looks like the incremental cost to this whole thing has been much greater then the revenue they are pulling in.
 
User avatar
RobK
Posts: 3942
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:43 pm

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:44 am

JBU E190s back in the air!

Just picked up JBU9011 on HF with NY ARINC, routing JFK to Bermuda. Selcal given equates to E190 N249JB!  spin 

R
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4323
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:48 am

It is an interesting thing going on a B6. Park aircraft to get the schedule back in swing? None of the legacies do that when severe weather happens. I can only speak for CO here, but at CO we have severe weather plans to go with when it does break down (weather wise). You would think that B6 would, too.

Maybe it is because JFK is their big hub and most planes are based out of JFK that they feel the need to do that. To get crews from one city to another, why not deadhead them on other carriers?

Parking planes to rebound your schedule sounds kind of drastic.
You can't cure stupid
 
JetJock22
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 46):
Parking planes to rebound your schedule sounds kind of drastic.


If you read the last sentence of the press release, we think it is drastic too....

Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
JetBlue is taking this aggressive, unprecedented action to end rolling delays and cancellations, and to operate a new schedule reliably

I work frontline AO for B6 in Columbus, and let me just say I hope things get back to normal soon. My stress level is elevated just a tad bit.
 
tekelberry
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 6:37 am

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:24 am

They've got the wrong number listed in their press release. It should read "800-538-2583." Instead, it reads "800-325-2583," which is a Blue Cross Blue Shield number.
 
iad51fl
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:21 pm

RE: JetBlue Parking All E190s Until 2/19

Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:30 am

Its funny....AA does this same thing, leaves planes out on the tarmac for hours, cancels dozens of flights and there are 20 or so messages. JBLU does it and so far in just this thread there are 47?

Maybe we have come to expect stuff like this from AA / UA but it looks like its B6's turn. Pretty much every domestic airline with a northern hub has had this same situation happen at least once. It comes with the industry. So for those travelers out there.... avoid northern hubs in the winter, and midwest/southern hubs in the spring.

FWIW, ALL B6 IAD-JFK and IAD-BOS flights are cancelled till 2/19 also.

Chris
Enjoying the view of KIAH approach end of 27. 29.980548, -95.271201

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