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kaitak744
Topic Author
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Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:06 am

I am doing a little researching and I am wondering who owns the terminals at LAX and JFK. So far, I got the following, but I know somethings are not correct...

LAX:
T1 - L.A. city
T2 - ?
T3 - L.A. city
TBIT - L.A. city
T4 - American
T5 - ?
T6 - ?
T7 - United
T8 - United?

JFK:
T1 - ?
T2 - Delta?
T3 - Delta?
T4 - New York Port Authority
T5 - New York Port Authority?
T6 - Jet Blue
T7 - British Airways?
T8 - American?
T9 - American
 
CXA330300
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:26 am

I think a consortium of airlines owns T1 at JFK, consisting of AF, KE, LH, and JL IIRC.
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jfk777
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:45 am

LAX T5 is/was Delta & T6 is UA, DL and Cal. Lax T2 is NW as leaseholder, used by also KLM, AF as SKYTREAM partners and Virgin and Air New Zealand as tenants.
 
boswashsprstar
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:55 am

I believe T2 and T5 in LAX are owned by the airport authority and are leased to their current users--there was a thread on this board a few weeks ago about the city trying to terminate those leases due to under-utilization of the terminals.
 
N1120A
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:58 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 2):
Lax T2 is NW as leaseholder

Actually, it is NW, HA and AC.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ha763
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 2):
Lax T2 is NW as leaseholder

T2 at LAX is owned by LAX Two Corp. NW is just one partner in the company. The other partners in LAX Two are AC and HA.
 
474218
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:37 am

I think you will find that all the terminals at JFK are owned by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and the City of Los Angles owns the terminals at LAX. The airlines only lease the terminals.
 
N1120A
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
The airlines only lease the terminals.

Actually, under the agreements that LAWA and PANYNJ have with their tenants, the terminals in question (T1, T5/6 and T7 at JFK; T2, T4, T5, T7/8 at LAX) are more along the lines of leasehold ownership as opposed to actual leases. The airlines are pretty free to do as they wish with the buildings while the airport authority owns the land under them.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
kaitak744
Topic Author
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:16 am

So, the list is a bit more clarified:

LAX:
T1 - L.A. city
T2 - North West, Air Canada, & Hawaiian
T3 - L.A. city
TBIT - L.A. city
T4 - American
T5 - ?
T6 - ?
T7 - United
T8 - United?

JFK:
T1 - Air France, Korean Air, Lufthansa, & JAL
T2 - Delta?
T3 - Delta?
T4 - New York Port Authority
T5 - New York Port Authority?
T6 - Jet Blue
T7 - British Airways?
T8 - American?
T9 - American
 
N1120A
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 8):
LAX:
T1 - L.A. city
T2 - North West, Air Canada, & Hawaiian
T3 - L.A. city
TBIT - L.A. city
T4 - American
T5 - ?
T6 - ?
T7 - United
T8 - United?

T5 is under exclusive lease to Delta, though the terms are a bit different than those of the T2 lease and Delta's non-payment of rents due has LAWA trying to kick them out of the terminal. T6 is LAWA controlled but under lease to UA, CO and DL.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 8):
T5 - New York Port Authority?
T6 - Jet Blue

jetBlue is moving into a remodeled T5.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Cory6188
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
T6 is LAWA controlled but under lease to UA, CO and DL.

So that would probably explain why it is such a dump. None of the three airlines want to put any money into it because it would benefit the others, so instead, it has degenerated into a total disgrace of a terminal...
 
N1120A
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 10):
So that would probably explain why it is such a dump. None of the three airlines want to put any money into it because it would benefit the others, so instead, it has degenerated into a total disgrace of a terminal...

What is a dump about T6? It serves its purpose well, it just doesn't have the same amount of airline-specific marketing that an exclusive use terminal would have. That and its food court isn't as good as T7, which is connected by a hallway.
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SafetyDude
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:51 am

JFK T4 is owned by JFK IAT.
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
WMUPilot
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
jetBlue is moving into a remodeled T5.

A Rebuilt T5
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
N1120A
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting WMUPilot (Reply 13):
A Rebuilt T5

Um, no. It is a historic building. They are using most of the original structure, including the iconic main hall and tubes.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
474218
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting SafetyDude (Reply 12):
JFK T4 is owned by JFK IAT.

JFK IAT LLC, operates Terminal 4 on a 28 year lease from PANYNJ.
 
WMUPilot
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:52 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Um, no. It is a historic building. They are using most of the original structure, including the iconic main hall and tubes.

Um no, the Saarinen and the people tubes are not going to be used as the terminal. They are going to sit empty for the time being. The original terminal structure is completely gone and is a faint memory. The Saarinen terminal is only staying because of its landmark status, otherwise T5 as you know it is completely gone.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
N1120A
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:01 pm

Quoting WMUPilot (Reply 16):
Um no, the Saarinen and the people tubes are not going to be used as the terminal. They are going to sit empty for the time being. The original terminal structure is completely gone and is a faint memory. The Saarinen terminal is only staying because of its landmark status, otherwise T5 as you know it is completely gone.

The wings are gone, but the head house is still there.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
lincoln
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 2):
Lax T2 is NW as leaseholder,

As has been noted, T2 is owned by LAX Two Corporation, a consortium of airlines includeing NW, HA, etc. -- only the ground the terminal sits on is owned by/leased from the Los Angeles World Airports. TSA even leases space from LAX Two

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
What is a dump about T6? It

I'm not trying to be offensive, but have you been in T6 recently?

The carpeting is awful, the lighting is horrid, the food is practically nonexistant during off-peak hours. PA System for CO's gates doesn't work so they're using that Fender portable PA system on a permanant basis which looks and sounds so half-assed and CO's podiums are in terrible shape (admitedly both of those are likely CO and not airport problems). DL's GIDS have a thicker layer of dust and crud on them than I've ever seen on any peice of electronic equipment that's still functioning -- and I'm suprised they haven't caught fire with the heat buildup that's bound to occur when all ventalation is blocked (whoever makes those things should win a reliability award!). UAs podiums are in marginally better condition than Continental's but that's not saying a whole lot. Some are literally falling to peices (like the UA podium shoved into the corner near the restaurant just before the final rotunda).

The restrooms are outdated, as is the signage -- I swear some of the signage is original to the building (see for ex. "67A Door 67B" in the rotunda). The color scheme throughout the majority of the terminal is equally dated .

In general, it seems like no one has paid any attention to the building since it opened to the public -- heck, until relatively recently one of DL's podiums even had the "original" Delta logo on it (ok by original I mean "the first one I ever noticed" which would be late 80's/early 90's)

Every time I fly through that dump I feel the compulsion to track down first time visitors to LAX and first time passengers of Continental's and applogize.

End of LAX T6 rant...

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:13 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 8):
So, the list is a bit more clarified:

LAX:
T1 - L.A. city
T2 - North West, Air Canada, & Hawaiian
T3 - L.A. city
TBIT - L.A. city
T4 - American
T5 - ?
T6 - ?
T7 - United
T8 - United?

In reality the "ownership" is more like this

LAX:
T1 - City
T2 - City/LAX Two Corp
T3 - City
TBIT - City
T4 - City
T5 - City
T6 - City
T7 - City
T8 - City[/quote]

For starters I suppose what do you mean by "ownership"?

All facilities are ultimately in the hands of the City. Terminals such as T-4 or T-7/8 are under multi decade leaseholds with carriers such as AA, UA however at the end of the day the carriers are are still tenants and pay rent to the airport authority. T-2 is the only somewhat private terminal as it was built and is managed by LAX Two Corp a consortium of NW,AC and HA under a very long term land lease (which LAWA is trying to buy back).
Another spin as to who "owns" the terminals is that many are financed under decade long quasi public/private organizations. For instance Delta's T-5 is tied up with RAIC Regional Airport Improvement Corp which issued bonds on the facility back in the 1980s, so since RAIC holds the paper to the facility it does have somewhat ownership.


So, at the end of the day, the term "owned" can be defined differently if you are talking about whom has exclusive tenancy, whom finances the facilities, but their ultimate ownership which is the City.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
N1120A
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:14 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 18):


I'm not trying to be offensive, but have you been in T6 recently?

Sure, I use it all the time, though T7/8 more often.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 18):
PA System for CO's gates doesn't work so they're using that Fender portable PA system on a permanant basis which looks and sounds so half-assed and CO's podiums are in terrible shape (admitedly both of those are likely CO and not airport problems).

That is Continental's fault, not LAWA's. United's portion of the terminal works well enough within the confines they must abide by given that it is a shared use facility. Further, the food selections are open until the redeyes leave, so I don't see the issue other than the fact that they are limited by the fact that most of the place is taken up by gate space and CO's lounge. Since the terminal is directly connected to T7, that expands options immensely.
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ikramerica
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:34 pm

I'd rather have the "dump" at T6 than the shopping mall that is SYD. That place, for all it's newness, was a nightmare for someone who hates shopping. Forced through Duty Free stores just to get to gates, then in the middle of a real shopping mall.

At least T6 knows what it is. A place to catch a plane. You can see the planes, there are seats to look at the planes, there are a couple of shops to buy items to read on the plane or candy or snacks to eat on the plane and souvenirs to show people you were there, and a few places to get a snack. Since it's not a hub, there isn't the same need that an EWR or LHR has for fine dining and fancy time killer shops, but there is a duty free for those few international departures. Other than Hawaii transfers, in T6, you arrive for your flight and get on the plane relatively quickly, or you arrive from your flight and leave the airport. To that end, the airport has increased security staffing and space, and CO has rebuilt their jetways at 60, 62 and 64.

I think they are holding off on any other terminal renovations because they are in limbo re: DL. Why invest money in gates only to be told they can rearrange them next month? And since this DL battle has been going on for over a year, that "next month" keeps dragging out. Once it's settled, I'd expect CO to try to consolidate it's gates and then remodel the area, with new monitors, seats, redone baggage claim, etc.. UA would do the same.

Until then, we must "suffer" through and terminal that seems to function just fine when I go through it. T4 and T5 are nicer, but security takes longer, T4 is still more crowded, etc. T6 works surprisingly well for the dump it is...  Wink
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FCYTravis
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:48 pm

What gets me about T6 is the rather bizarre layout - twisting around corridors, stairs and escalators to reach gate areas. I assume that's a function of the fact that it was originally an island concourse, and only later connected to the landside terminal?
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kaitak744
Topic Author
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:17 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 19):
For starters I suppose what do you mean by "ownership"?

Alright, I meant control. Who has control over the terminals? For example, AA would not been able to do their extensive remodel of T4 at LAX unless they had authority over it.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:45 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 23):
Alright, I meant control. Who has control over the terminals? For example, AA would not been able to do their extensive remodel of T4 at LAX unless they had authority over it.

Operational authority for the terminals does rest with the long term lease holder, however they must be in compliance with all LAWA operating regulations.

As far as the remodels, they all had to be approved by the airport authority and comply with its regulations. For instance LAWA is not going to let you simple tear a wall down even in a terminal whom you have long term lease over, as you are modifying something that belongs to them. Similarly any improvements must be compliant with airport regulations which specify everything including sizes of approved signage, enviromental regulations, approved vendors etc...
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N1120A
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RE: Terminal Ownership In JFK And LAX

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:56 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 22):
I assume that's a function of the fact that it was originally an island concourse, and only later connected to the landside terminal?

Yep.
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