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Qantas747300
Topic Author
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:08 pm

UA826 Return To SYD!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:12 pm

Hello everyone.

Well, what a start to my overseas holiday. UA826 operated by N179UA had to return to SYD after a young passenger become critically ill approximately 2 hours after departure. We dumped fuel for about half an hour before making a steep descent back into SYD. I will try and post some pictures of it at a later date but all up, a very interesting experience. UA did a wonderful job working the situation after landing although failed miserably when it come to customer service on the ground. But still, it was not really UA's fault as customer service is handled by another operator in SYD. Prayers are with the passenger, apparently she left the plane in a critical condition.

Qantas747300
 
United Airline
Posts: 8971
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:46 pm

Why did they dump fuel?

And what happened to that girl? Hope she will be ok
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5111
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:06 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 1):
Why did they dump fuel?

You serious? B744s out of SYD to LAX/SFO are full of fuel. They are so heavy that the aircraft cannot follow a standard departure track, there are special ones defined for them. Less than 2 hours out of SYD he will still be well over MLW. Remember with fuel reserves he is carrying about 16-17 hours worth of fuel, so even burning off 4 hours (2 out, 2 back) he'll still have 13 hours of fuel on board.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
VHXLR8
Posts: 487
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RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:34 pm

Qantas747300, you poor dear having the start of your overseas holiday disrupted by the plight of a young girl needing urgent medical attention.
So UA did a bad job on the ground in SYD; did you not think for a moment that ground staff were extremely busy coordinating with ambulance staff, and overall general logistics for an unscheduled flight at a time that they would not normally be fully staffed (due to their flights not normally arriving/departing at that time) by those particular ground handling staff.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5111
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:58 pm

Quoting VHXLR8 (Reply 3):
So UA did a bad job on the ground in SYD; did you not think for a moment that ground staff were extremely busy coordinating with ambulance staff, and overall general logistics for an unscheduled flight at a time that they would not normally be fully staffed (due to their flights not normally arriving/departing at that time) by those particular ground handling staff.

Not the paxs problem! It's UA staffs job to handle it, it's hardly an unexpected event, similar things must happen at least weekly on a system as large as UAs, they should be prepared for it at EVERY port they serve. They also had two hours notice.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
Paul
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:59 am

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:22 pm

Who covers the liabilitiy in these sorts of situations? The costs of a delay of this nature must be astronimcal!

Paul
Veni, vidi, vici.
 
Airbus A3XX
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 5:12 pm

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:07 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 4):
Not the paxs problem! It's UA staffs job to handle it, it's hardly an unexpected event, similar things must happen at least weekly on a system as large as UAs, they should be prepared for it at EVERY port they serve. They also had two hours notice.

That is the problem airlines would face when they get handled by smaller ground handlers in overseas station. United is handled by Aerocare here in Sydney which is a relatively small ground handler (in terms of customer service with only flights for SQ/UA/Pacific Blue).
 
N1120A
Posts: 26650
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RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting Qantas747300 (Thread starter):
But still, it was not really UA's fault as customer service is handled by another operator in SYD.

It is still United's fault, because their handler is their agent.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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spinkid
Posts: 1901
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:59 am

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting Qantas747300 (Thread starter):
UA did a wonderful job working the situation after landing although failed miserably when it come to customer service on the ground

Before we jump all over United, I wonder what exactly is meant by "failed miserably". Was it just poor communication, where passengers stuck for 10 + hours on the ramp.

Shouldn't they be able to unload the sick passenger, refuel and head back out, or would there be an issue with crew timing out?
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2259
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting Paul (Reply 5):
Who covers the liabilitiy in these sorts of situations? The costs of a delay of this nature must be astronimcal!

Unfortunately for the airline, they bear the brunt of this. In this situation it was done for the right reasons. A few years ago, some jackass in ATL ran through the security checkpoint (to get his camera he forgot or something) because he didn't want to wait in line. This caused lengthy delays for DL and FL. FL sued the guy for damages (which I personally thought was AWESOME). Never heard the outcome, but I hope they hung him out to dry...
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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United787
Posts: 2945
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting VHXLR8 (Reply 3):
Qantas747300, you poor dear having the start of your overseas holiday disrupted by the plight of a young girl needing urgent medical attention.
So UA did a bad job on the ground in SYD; did you not think for a moment that ground staff were extremely busy coordinating with ambulance staff, and overall general logistics for an unscheduled flight at a time that they would not normally be fully staffed (due to their flights not normally arriving/departing at that time) by those particular ground handling staff.

What is with the attitude? I didn't get the impression that the original post was whining at all, he was only stating his experience. In fact, he said "Prayers are with the passenger..."
 
richierich
Moderator
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RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting Spinkid (Reply 8):
Before we jump all over United, I wonder what exactly is meant by "failed miserably". Was it just poor communication, where passengers stuck for 10 + hours on the ramp.

Shouldn't they be able to unload the sick passenger, refuel and head back out, or would there be an issue with crew timing out?

I agree - nobody should be jumping on UA's case over this. Sorry Gemuser, but this WAS an unexpected event... or was UA supposed to know about this before hand? I think you mean it is should have been a routine event, in which they are trained and prepared for handling it. My hunch is that they were not prepared for this, at least the way they ought to have been, based on the posts in this thread.

Let's hope the girl is OK, first of all. As far as simply loading back up and heading out again, it is hardly that simple. As you suggested, there is a crew issue. There might have been an aircraft issue too - often planes that come in heavy have to be checked out to see if there was any damage due to an overweight landing. They might have had to wait for qualified personnel to look for the plane - worst case scenario is another plane would be needed as this one goes tech. That means reaccommodating all pax on to different flights, perhaps with lodging arrangements too. The bottom line is that is probably not a fuel-and-go situation.
None shall pass!!!!
 
Qantas747300
Topic Author
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:08 pm

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:58 am

Hello again all.

I am sorry if I have been mistaken. The purpose of this post was not to discredit United at all. They did a fantastic job handling the situation both in the air and on the ground. I was just a little disappointed in Aerocares performance at the gate. Understandably, everyone wanted to know as much as if the flight would be cancelled or continue on later that night, but the handling agent who worked for Aerocare could not have been any ruder to the passengers. I understand that she would have been under stress as a few of the connecting passengers did not have Australian visas but you had to be there to understand what I mean as the purpose of this post is not to whinge. I was amazed at the calmness of the passengers, not one upset person as far as I could see. As for me, I was quite excited about the return but it could not have come at a larger cost (possibly the loss of life). I would bend over backwards to help that young girl so please don’t think that I am in any way "sour" about this. I think that United’s decision to return was the perfectly right one. I hope that if I ever get critically ill on a flight, it is operated by someone who cares.

Qantas747300

** I must credit one of the check-in girls. She was the friendliest and most helpful employee of an airline that I have ever seen. I should have included that in my original post to off set the negative impression.
 Smile
 
ABpositive
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:36 pm

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 9):
Quoting Paul (Reply 5):
Who covers the liabilitiy in these sorts of situations? The costs of a delay of this nature must be astronimcal!

I would have thought that there would be some sort of rule with insurance companies to cover some of these costs.
 
jimyvr
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 pm

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:16 am

** UA - UNITED AIRLINES **
F:826/26FEB
SYD SEE REMARKS BELOW
LAX SEE REMARKS BELOW
SYD/WAS OFF SYD 146P - RETURNED TO FIELD DUE TO CUST
SYDLAX/PSGR PROT - FIRAV
CK INDIVIDUAL PNRS
BAGS W/PSGRS
LAX/LX/XX/0242CT/CNCLD/ARPT
SYD/LX/XX/0242CT/CNCLD/ARPT
ARRIVAL BAGGAGE DEPARTURE
TERMINAL GATE CLAIM AREA TERMINAL GATE
SYD CHK 56
LAX CHK 74 CHK
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
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spinkid
Posts: 1901
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:59 am

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:20 am

Quoting Qantas747300 (Reply 12):
the handling agent who worked for Aerocare could not have been any ruder to the passengers.

I can forgive almost anything that goes wrong in customer service if I'm treated nicely with a smile. Rudness gets you nowhere.

All that said, How did the flight turn out? How long were you delayed?

My prayers are with the young girl as well.
 
Qantas747300
Topic Author
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:08 pm

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:02 am

Hi Spinkid.

I should be boarding UA9791 within the next couple of hours. UA826 was cancelled yesterday due to duty time limitations. I hope that it is the same plane as I left my camera on board yesterday.

Qantas747300
 
jetjeanes
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:42 am

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:33 am

Is their a cost of a human life??? or should he have just continued on to Lax and throw a blanket on her..
Im sure they did the best they could.
i can see for 80 miles
 
hz747300
Posts: 2419
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:09 pm

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 17):
Is their a cost of a human life??? or should he have just continued on to Lax and throw a blanket on her..
Im sure they did the best they could.

Out of curiosity, when they are two hours out, at what point does BrisVegas become a better alternative than going back to Sydney? Does it relate to the severity of the illness... i.e., deathbed? They did the right thing even if it drew all the UA-haters out of the woodwork.
Keep on truckin'...
 
CXfirst
Posts: 3022
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm

RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:03 pm

Quoting Paul (Reply 5):
Who covers the liabilitiy in these sorts of situations? The costs of a delay of this nature must be astronimcal!

Well, UA couldn't keep flying with a critically ill passenger just because of costs, could they?

-CXfirst
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 5629
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RE: UA826 Return To SYD!

Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting Spinkid (Reply 8):
Shouldn't they be able to unload the sick passenger, refuel and head back out, or would there be an issue with crew timing out?

In a situation like this the aircraft would more than likely gone technical... Just to add, the flight would be handled as an addtional unplanned flight which would mean the aircraft would be de-catered and catered again to meet quantine rules...

EK413
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