Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
AA JFK-LAS
Anyone know when these flights are going to load into the system or when the first departures are?
-
- akizidy214
- Posts: 258
- Joined:
RE: AA JFK-LAS
Not sure when they are going to be loaded but September 1st is the start date. I'm guessing they are deciding between 3 class 762 service or 2 class 757 service and when that is figured out they will be loaded into the system.
DCA
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 1): Not sure when they are going to be loaded but September 1st is the start date. I'm guessing they are deciding between 3 class 762 service or 2 class 757 service and when that is figured out they will be loaded into the system. |
I am almost willing to bet my life on the fact it will be a 757, SKED wire changes are generally pushed through 2x a month late on Saturday.
F.U.R.P.....Families Under Reduced Pay
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting AA787823 (Reply 2): I am almost willing to bet my life on the fact it will be a 757, SKED wire changes are generally pushed through 2x a month late on Saturday. |
Agreed. LAS is a low yield, high volume market. Especially with international expansion being key these days, it would be relatively stupid to put a 767 on a LAS route.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
Service begins September 5, 2007. It will be operated by a 757 and will likely leave JFK at night and return as a redeye. That is how AA has added transcon service to LAS before (BOS-LAS and MIA-LAS... BOS-LAS was dropped a couple of years ago and MIA-LAS is now double daily).
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 1): I'm guessing they are deciding between 3 class 762 service or 2 class 757 service |
That will be a very, very easy choice, given that AA reserves the 3 class 762 service almost exclusively for the transcon flagship routes to LAX and SFO, along with some MIA turns.
| Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 3): Agreed. LAS is a low yield, high volume market. Especially with international expansion being key these days, it would be relatively stupid to put a 767 on a LAS route. |
Actually, internationally, it is a high yield market which is why there has been international expansion and is a lot of the business US carriers do to the market as well. Further, the expansion in native and other legal gambling to most other US states means the Las Vegas is less of a pull for the low yield traveller and more of one for the higher yield passenger who sees no point in getting their rocks off in a local gaming hall. That is definately indicated by the massive expansion in the higher end accomidations, entertainment and dining that has taken Vegas by storm over the last decade.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 5): MIA-LAS flight 447 has very bad service. |
Thanks for that little nugget of useless information.
| Quoting N1120A (Reply 6): given that AA reserves the 3 class 762 service almost exclusively for the transcon flagship routes to LAX and SFO, along with some MIA turns. |
As well as BDA.
-
- ContinentalEWR
- Posts: 3731
- Joined:
RE: AA JFK-LAS
This route will be cut and fast. It won't last. DL, B6, CO, US have the NYC-LAS market saturated.
American has tried and failed to expand JFK into a semi-hub operation several times. it doesn't work.
American has tried and failed to expand JFK into a semi-hub operation several times. it doesn't work.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 8): This route will be cut and fast. It won't last. DL, B6, CO, US have the NYC-LAS market saturated. |
I'm not so sure.
AA has shown and proven what power the ridiculously huge AAdvantage frequent flyer community in the New York metro area can do with its growth into markets like Atlanta, Charlotte and Pittsburgh from LaGuardia. American's frequent flyers, combined with some smart yield management and good focus on diverting higher-yielding international connecting traffic onto the flight, may well do the trick in making it at least sustainable, if not strong. In addition, even if the route loses money, American may well decide to keep it as a loss-leader and means for American's aforementioned New York frequent flyer community to burn miles, freeing up seats on other routings over ORD, DFW and STL in the process.
I'm not saying it is going to perform steller, or definitely last, but after what has happened with AA's runaway success on LGA-ATL, I'm certainly not writing JFK-LAS off yet.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
I find it odd that as part of the "Big" openning to future NYC expansion they start with an already serviced leisure destination. Does anyone have any ideas about future announcements of new routes or any rumors of new routes out of LGA or JFK?
AA787
AA787
-
- elmothehobo
- Posts: 985
- Joined:
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 8): American has tried and failed to expand JFK into a semi-hub operation several times. it doesn't work. |
...not with a billion dollar terminal terminal and ambitions to expand their whole operation in said terminal. This route may not be a stellar performer, but it will be part of American's growing JFK operation.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting Commavia (Reply 9): AA has shown and proven what power the ridiculously huge AAdvantage frequent flyer community in the New York metro area can do with its growth into markets like Atlanta, Charlotte and Pittsburgh from LaGuardia. American's frequent flyers, combined with some smart yield management and good focus on diverting higher-yielding international connecting traffic onto the flight, may well do the trick in making it at least sustainable, if not strong. In addition, even if the route loses money, American may well decide to keep it as a loss-leader and means for American's aforementioned New York frequent flyer community to burn miles, freeing up seats on other routings over ORD, DFW and STL in the process. |
I tend to agree with you here. If LAS was such a crap market, airlines wouldn't serve it with the frequency they do. Also, with AA's international strength at JFK, particularly the LHR route, that provides ample feed for the route.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 8): This route will be cut and fast. It won't last. DL, B6, CO, US have the NYC-LAS market saturated. American has tried and failed to expand JFK into a semi-hub operation several times. it doesn't work. |
AA isn't catering just to New Yorkers. It's also catering to European travelers. Right now, passengers from Europe have to connect at either ORD or DFW. This will a third gateway to LAS.
I've flown AA many times between ORD and LAS. Flights in the afternoon and evening out of ORD have a significant number of passengers traveling on European passports, with a similar situation on morning departures out of LAS.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting Commavia (Reply 9): I'm not saying it is going to perform steller, or definitely last, but after what has happened with AA's runaway success on LGA-ATL, I'm certainly not writing JFK-LAS off yet. |
How true! I would have bet my money that AA was going to have it's head handed to them on this route. Who would have guessed it would do so well. Hopefully LAS will work out the same.
| Quoting N1120A (Reply 12): If LAS was such a crap market, airlines wouldn't serve it with the frequency they do. Also, with AA's international strength at JFK, particularly the LHR route, that provides ample feed for the route. |
I imagine that eventually this route will go to at least double daily if not 3X per day. The multiple sections per day would be necessary to maximize connections and appeal to business travelers.
AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
If the flight times are indeed evening JFK-LAS, red-eye LAS-JFK, then AA is probably utilizing a 757 that is currently RON. Thus they won't have to pull from an exisiting market. Maybe just a few timing tweaks.
Agreed that this flight could very well work this time around for AA. Las Vegas tourist traffic obviously makes it highly popular and on weekends there probably aren't enough seats to meet the demand. But there is also a lot of business/convention traffic, even moreso now that New Orleans is still recovering from hurricane damage. And if you haven't looked out the window flying over the area, you'd miss the ocean of homes. Las Vegas is truly a metropolis in it's own - and aside from the cliche "Vegas Baby" that comes to mind - this population of people have travel needs just like any other city.
[Edited 2007-02-28 15:21:29]
Agreed that this flight could very well work this time around for AA. Las Vegas tourist traffic obviously makes it highly popular and on weekends there probably aren't enough seats to meet the demand. But there is also a lot of business/convention traffic, even moreso now that New Orleans is still recovering from hurricane damage. And if you haven't looked out the window flying over the area, you'd miss the ocean of homes. Las Vegas is truly a metropolis in it's own - and aside from the cliche "Vegas Baby" that comes to mind - this population of people have travel needs just like any other city.
[Edited 2007-02-28 15:21:29]
RE: AA JFK-LAS
Also remember that the red-eye returning connects well to the morning JFK-LHR flight. This gives passengers the option of what leg to red-eye on since it is far more appealing to fly over night on LAS-JFK and then onto LHR than it is to fly LAS-ORD to connect to the early morning LHR flight. It provides more flexibility for those connecting onto LHR from LAS.
AA787
PS- Still hoping someone has any ideas of possible new route ideas from JFK or LGA on AA!
AA787
PS- Still hoping someone has any ideas of possible new route ideas from JFK or LGA on AA!
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting AA787 (Reply 16): This gives passengers the option of what leg to red-eye on |
I agree with that but AA has to increase the amount of flights per day to really make a splash. Most people want the option of flying at one of 3 times a day to a city like vegas. Morning is huge so people can squeeze out those extra hours instead of pulling into your hotel at 10pm.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 8): This route will be cut and fast. It won't last. DL, B6, CO, US have the NYC-LAS market saturated. American has tried and failed to expand JFK into a semi-hub operation several times. it doesn't work. |
Please. You said the same useless comment when AA started JFK-NRT, but here we are 4 years later and still going strong on the route. You also said that LGA-ATL would be gone as well, but I see that going to all mainline due to it's great success. Looks like your wishes for them to fail are not coming true.
| Quoting AA787 (Reply 16): Still hoping someone has any ideas of possible new route ideas from JFK or LGA on AA! |
Don't know yet, but maybe Mark has something. I know he stated the routes that they were looking at were MIA-CPT, and ORD-BOM.
"The low fares airline."
RE: AA JFK-LAS
While I agree extra flexibility with more JFK-LAS flights would be nice, I dont see them using the aircraft on what is a normally low-yielding route. The fleet is already being stretched, therefore uless the new route is a runaway success, I really don't see any more frequencies in the near future.
AA787
AA787
-
- EWRCabincrew
- Posts: 4323
- Joined:
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting CodyKDiamond (Reply 5): MIA-LAS flight 447 has very bad service. |
In terms of what? On time status? The timing of the flight? Are you onboard every flight to make a blanket statement or just going by your experience the time you took it?
We need more info.
You can't cure stupid
RE: AA JFK-LAS
TWA used to have a nonstop JFK-LAS flight using the B-757, The flight left JFK around 9:00 pm and arrived in LAS around 11:15 PM and then left around 1:00 am and became the red eye to STL arriving in the early morning. The LAS inbound aircraft left STL around 9:00 pm to STL and left around 11:30 and became the red-eye to JFK. I flew these JFK-LAS-JFK runs many times and I liked them.
This way TWA used 2 airplanes that normally would have been RON at JFK and STL.
These flight were always sold out so even in the low yield LAS market, a fully packed 757 makes money.
AA can send a B-757 to LAS around 8:30pm and have it back in JFK around 6:30 am or do the same thing as TWA did with 2 airplanes from its hubs in either ORD or DFW.
You have to remember that besides the variable costs like fuel and crew expenses, there are fixed costs like insurance and leasing rates that are paid even if the airplane sits or flies, so utilizing an airplane for a revenue flight instead of letting it sit makes sense
This way TWA used 2 airplanes that normally would have been RON at JFK and STL.
These flight were always sold out so even in the low yield LAS market, a fully packed 757 makes money.
AA can send a B-757 to LAS around 8:30pm and have it back in JFK around 6:30 am or do the same thing as TWA did with 2 airplanes from its hubs in either ORD or DFW.
You have to remember that besides the variable costs like fuel and crew expenses, there are fixed costs like insurance and leasing rates that are paid even if the airplane sits or flies, so utilizing an airplane for a revenue flight instead of letting it sit makes sense
RE: AA JFK-LAS
Well, the JFK-LAS schedule is out, and frankly I'm a bit surprised. It's timed perfectly for connections to and from Europe, which is no doubt what AA was going for, but I was definitely expecting a late evening (6-8pm) JFK departure and eastbound redeye return. Not so for AA ...
AA257 JFK 1620 LAS 1900
AA258 LAS 0735 JFK 1530
Both with 757s (not so surprisingly).
Who knows, maybe AA will eventually add a second flight (like with their successful MIA-LAS route) with an eastbound redeye return, as seems to be the custom for the LAS-JFK market.
AA257 JFK 1620 LAS 1900
AA258 LAS 0735 JFK 1530
Both with 757s (not so surprisingly).
Who knows, maybe AA will eventually add a second flight (like with their successful MIA-LAS route) with an eastbound redeye return, as seems to be the custom for the LAS-JFK market.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
Wouldn't you also say that this makes more sense for NYC travellers as well seeing that this is definately a leisure destination that would have passengers more interested in taking a normal day flight than a red-eye? In addition, the red-eye market is rather saturated already with US, B6 etc. who probably drive yields even lower than they already are on JFK-LAS.
AA787
AA787
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting AA787 (Reply 23): Wouldn't you also say that this makes more sense for NYC travellers as well seeing that this is definately a leisure destination that would have passengers more interested in taking a normal day flight than a red-eye? In addition, the red-eye market is rather saturated already with US, B6 etc. who probably drive yields even lower than they already are on JFK-LAS. |
A fair point, although usually in low-yield markets (which JFK-LAS decidedly is) schedules are more often driven by scheduling and logistical realities than customer preference. (Witness the incredibly early 6am departures from around the east coast to get to MIA in time to make connections to the Caribbean.)
Your point is a good one -- this schedule is definitely more attractive for vacations customers (or at least would be for this passenger) -- but I'm still surprised that AA didn't choose to get the plane back to JFK in time to make a daylight roundtrip out of JFK instead of sitting it overnight at LAS.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
Are you sure it is sitting over night in LAS? I certainly doubt that AA would have a plane sit on the ground at LAS for almost 12 hours. I bet it is a flight to ORD that arrives around midnight or a red-eye to MIA or something and that the morning JFK flight is a midnight arrival from DFW or ORD.
AA787
AA787
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting AA787 (Reply 25): Are you sure it is sitting over night in LAS? I certainly doubt that AA would have a plane sit on the ground at LAS for almost 12 hours. I bet it is a flight to ORD that arrives around midnight or a red-eye to MIA or something and that the morning JFK flight is a midnight arrival from DFW or ORD. |
The only outbound 757 redeye the JFK inbound can turn into is the 2300 departure to MIA. Other 757s already RONing at LAS include the 0625 departure to MIA, the 0715 departure to DFW, and the 0950 departure to ORD. Either way, even if the JFK inbound doesn't sit overnight at LAS, some 757 has to RON there in order to get out at 0735 for the JFK departure.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting Commavia (Reply 26): The only outbound 757 redeye the JFK inbound can turn into is the 2300 departure to MIA. Other 757s already RONing at LAS include the 0625 departure to MIA, the 0715 departure to DFW, and the 0950 departure to ORD. Either way, even if the JFK inbound doesn't sit overnight at LAS, some 757 has to RON there in order to get out at 0735 for the JFK departure. |
Actually, the 9:50am departure to ORD doesn't RON. That flight is the return for the first arrival of the day from ORD. Trust me, since I've been on the 9:50am departure. There is an earlier departure for ORD, around 7:30am. That plane RONs at LAS.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
| Quoting Ckfred (Reply 27): Actually, the 9:50am departure to ORD doesn't RON. That flight is the return for the first arrival of the day from ORD. Trust me, since I've been on the 9:50am departure. There is an earlier departure for ORD, around 7:30am. That plane RONs at LAS. |
Indeed. My mistake - it does come in as the 0900 arrival from ORD. Apologies.
RE: AA JFK-LAS
I used to live in Vegas (until August) and there are several AA 757s/MD-80s that RON there. It was nothing to see the east ramp loaded with four 757s and an MD-80, plus a few a/c on the gate. There are several early morning departures from LAS that depend on RONs to operate.
Currently there must be at least five RONs, one for the early ORD, two for the early DFWs, one for the early MIA and one for the early STL. (Three MD-80s and two 757s). There are more MD-80s flying in/out of LAS lately. The type of A/C AA utilize in LAS seems to vary quite a bit. Several months ago all departures from LAS to DFW were 757s except for one, now, four of them are operated by MD-80s.
Currently there must be at least five RONs, one for the early ORD, two for the early DFWs, one for the early MIA and one for the early STL. (Three MD-80s and two 757s). There are more MD-80s flying in/out of LAS lately. The type of A/C AA utilize in LAS seems to vary quite a bit. Several months ago all departures from LAS to DFW were 757s except for one, now, four of them are operated by MD-80s.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], bmibaby737, BobLoblah, BrianDromey, David_itl, davidjohnson6, dfwking, HEXC, MAH4546, Megatop747-412, milhaus, Oliver2020, scbriml, SirMS, SQ22, SXI899, Toinou, trent768, ZK-NBT and 153 guests