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albird87
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777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:57 am

Hey Folks!

I have been pondering on the main differences between the 772ER and the 772LR? I mean there is the raked wingtip and the extra fuel tanks and then the new GE90-115B engines. Are there any other differences?? (Strengthening anywhere??). I ask this as there are those two 777s that were used by Varig sitting in the dessert and wondered if boeing would of taken them back and refurbished them and sell them off again?? I mean would that be too much cost for them than to build another 2?? Also if they could then possibly convert them into some of the test beds and first to 772Fs???
 
EI321
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:00 am

As far as I know, those two Varig birds are not -ER models.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:02 am

There were also changes made to the empennage and both the undercarriage and engine pylons were strengthened to take the higher MTOW and engine weights.

Converting a 772ER to a 772LR or a 777F is technically possible, but not economically possible. RG's birds will eventually be re-sold or leased to new owners and will remain 777-200ERs.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
As far as I know, those two Varig birds are not -ER models.

I guess it depends which birds the OP was referring to. PP-VRE is an ex-UA ER, but PP-VRI and PP-VRJ are both non-ER ex-UA birds.
 
gigneil
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Converting a 772ER to a 772LR or a 777F is technically possible, but not economically possible.

I actually don't know for sure that it is... by the time you did, you'd basically have a new plane anyway.

NS
 
albird87
Topic Author
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
RG's birds will eventually be re-sold or leased to new owners and will remain 777-200ERs.

I thought they were being scrapped?? I thought they were not worth in re-selling and could make more money being scrapped and then sold on as scrap metal and spare parts
 
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LTU330
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:28 am

I think the ex Varig 777s that are going to be parted out are in fact ex British Airways
777-236s. Note -236 not -236ER. They are two from the original batch G-ZZZA to G-ZZZE
that normally only saw use to the middle ease and east coast U.S when in B.A service
due to not having the center wing tank fuel capacity of the -ER models
 
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Stitch
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 5):
I thought they were being scrapped?

As LTU330 notes above, the ex-BA bird is being scrapped, but at least PP-VRE has gone "back to the bank" and I am sure will find a new home - with UA, perhaps.
 
albird87
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting LTU330 (Reply 6):
I think the ex Varig 777s that are going to be parted out are in fact ex British Airways
777-236s. Note -236 not -236ER. They are two from the original batch G-ZZZA to G-ZZZE

Ah ok i see

Off the plot a bit but why did BA get 5 none ERs???
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 8):
Off the plot a bit but why did BA get 5 none ERs???

The ER wasn't available when the 777 was launched. UA and a few other airlines also has a handful of non-ERs.
 
redflyer
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting Albird87 (Thread starter):
I have been pondering on the main differences between the 772ER and the 772LR? I mean there is the raked wingtip and the extra fuel tanks and then the new GE90-115B engines.

Not intending to split hairs, but the 772LR has GE90-110 engines (they are rated at 110,000 lbs max. thrust); the 773ER has the GE90-115 engines.

As others have already posted, it undoubtedly does not make economic sense to send the planes back to Boeing for reconfiguration into an LR version.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 8):
Off the plot a bit but why did BA get 5 none ERs?

The non-ER model can easily handle LHR-US East Coast.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 10):
Not intending to split hairs, but the 772LR has GE90-110 engines (they are rated at 110,000 lbs max. thrust); the 773ER has the GE90-115 engines.

Both the 777F and the 772LR can be ordered with GE90-115 engines, as well. AC is taking GE90-115Bs for their 777F, 772LR and 773ER fleet per this press release - http://www.ge.com/stories/en/20400.html?category=Product_Business
 
COA735
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:49 pm

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:37 am

I was just on another thread. Someone said that the LR is bigger and heavier that the ER version. (2000lbs heavier). If this is the case, the LR's probably cost more.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:41 am

OEW is 15,500lbs more, but yes, the 777-200LR is more expensive then the 777-200ER because it is a more capable aircraft.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:51 am

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1740/777lrchangesac4.jpg
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 8):
Off the plot a bit but why did BA get 5 none ERs???

Is the 777-200A lighter than the -ER model? If this is the case, then it is cheaper to operate the 772A on routes such as LHR-India/Middle East and LHR-USA (excluding the West coast).

United uses it's 772A models for domestic ops, and them configured in a 2-class configuration with domestic F and Y seats. It is a lot more economical to operate this aircraft on these routes than the -ER model. The same dynamic happens in DL's fleet with the 763, the -ER model operates intl. routes while the base model is packed with seats for Florida runs.
 
COA735
Posts: 111
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:12 am

Off the topic, but besides AI and PIA, who flies the LR?
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2727
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:33 am

200A is lighter than the 200ER.... but at the end of the day given your choice you would NEVER take a 200A over a 200ER as it matters little unless you are flying a route you would rather have 2 or 3 737s to run it anyway.
 
mav75
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2000 10:02 am

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:41 am

I think CO made some software changes to their GE90's to gain another 5,000 lbs or so of thrust per engine. Where does this place their 777 ER's in relation to the new LR's?

I also heard rumors that their last few 777 ER orders might be converted to LR models. Can anyone comment on that?
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9298
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:43 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 15):
Is the 777-200A lighter than the -ER model?

Barely.

Quoting COA735 (Reply 16):
Off the topic, but besides AI and PIA, who flies the LR?

Customers awaiting delivery include:

- Air Canada
- Delta Airlines
- Emirates
- EVA Air
- Qatar Airways
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
highflyer9790
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:21 am

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting LTU330 (Reply 6):
think the ex Varig 777s that are going to be parted out are in fact ex British Airways
777-236s. Note -236 not -236ER. They are two from the original batch G-ZZZA to G-ZZZE
that normally only saw use to the middle ease and east coast U.S when in B.A service
due to not having the center wing tank fuel capacity of the -ER models

Just to throw it in here, when the -200ER originally came out, it was the -200IGW (increased Gross Weight)
121
 
phollingsworth
Posts: 759
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:05 am

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting Mav75 (Reply 18):
I think CO made some software changes to their GE90's to gain another 5,000 lbs or so of thrust per engine. Where does this place their 777 ER's in relation to the new LR's?

GE90s are built, during the same time period, using the same bill of materials (BOM). Once GE certfied the -94B, they upgraded all future -90Bs etc to this bill of materials. As such if you have an engine with a given bill of materials you can pay GE for the FADEC plug and the rating slip for one of several thrust classes, say move from a -90B to a -94B. Incidentally, during this time period GE withdrew the type certificate (TC) for the -92B, my guess is that all of the -92Bs were upgraded to -94Bs (BOM wise) or derated to -90Bs. Incidentally, these engines carry the ICAO UID of 6GE0XX.

As for the -110/113/115Bs, these are very different engines. In fact if you read the TC for the GE90 you will see that it required a special dispensation from the FAA to keep this on the same TC as the previous GE90s. Not only did GE change the fan, but they also significantly changed the core (high pressure components), the new GE engines have one less HPC stage than the original. These engines have ICAO UIDs of 7GE0XX. It is my undestanding that the BOM here cannot be retrofited to earlier models.
 
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sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
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RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting Mav75 (Reply 18):
also heard rumors that their ( CO ) last few 777 ER orders might be converted to LR models.

If they are looking to increase their payload on Asian routes out of EWR then it would be no surprise. They and DL must be flying the longest non-stop stage length of any -200ER operator
 
FlyHoss
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:20 pm

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 22):
Quoting Mav75 (Reply 18):
also heard rumors that their ( CO ) last few 777 ER orders might be converted to LR models.

If they are looking to increase their payload on Asian routes out of EWR then it would be no surprise. They and DL must be flying the longest non-stop stage length of any -200ER operator

During Kellner's most recent visit to the IAH pilot's lounge, this question came up. His answer was that CO doesn't need the LR and therefore won't pay the extra money for it.

I think CO is sticking to the strategy of waiting for the 787s to start arriving in late 2009 before making any more significant wide-body schedule changes or additions.

IMHO, CO could use both the -200LR and some 777-300s. Time will tell, but I'd be surprised to see -200LRs or any -300s appear.
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:54 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 15):
Is the 777-200A lighter than the -ER model? If this is the case, then it is cheaper to operate the 772A on routes such as LHR-India/Middle East and LHR-USA (excluding the West coast).

Yes, but they're also less-capable. Doesn't always do you well to sacrifice potential revenue (if indeed that is the case) in exchange for lower cost.

Quoting Mav75 (Reply 18):
I think CO made some software changes to their GE90's to gain another 5,000 lbs or so of thrust per engine

Wasn't software per se.... they installed the 3D-Aero compressor and associated systems. Straight up hardware.

Quoting Mav75 (Reply 18):
Where does this place their 777 ER's in relation to the new LR's?

CO's 772ERs are, like all 772ERs, still limited to an apex MTOW of 656K lbs.

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 21):
during this time period GE withdrew the type certificate (TC) for the -92B,

First I've heard of this. Not saying it's incorrect, but can you cite some corroboration for it?

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 21):
As for the -110/113/115Bs

113??
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting FlyHoss (Reply 23):
IMHO, CO could use both the -200LR and some 777-300s. Time will tell, but I'd be surprised to see -200LRs or any -300s appear.

CO would only need the 77W on select routes, namely IAH-LGW and CDG-LGW, potentially the IAH and EWR to NRT flights. Regarding the 772LR, I think that CO is holding out for the 787. They'll get their first a/c in 2009, and if they were to place a new 777 order now, they'd be waiting just as long if not longer.
 
777gk
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:25 am

All of our (CO) 777s were uprated to the GE90-94B standard in 2006, IIRC.

This was accomplished by making some necessary FADEC software changes and few, if any mods to the powerplant itself.
 
CRFLY
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:06 pm

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:25 pm

LOL, almost flipped when I read "777-200ER to LR", which I assumed LACSA (LR) was getting 777's... Thought TACA went back to Boeing and will finally start flying SJO-MAD... It's always good to dream!
AA, AB, AC, AM, AR, AV, BA, B6, CM, CO, CX, CZ, DL, EA, ET, GU, HX, IB, JJ, LA, LH, LP, LR, LX, MU, MX, PA, PT, QF, RG, SA, TA, TP, TZ, UA, VW, VX, VY, WS, Z8, 2K, 4O, 4Z
 
ConcordeBoy
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Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting 777gk (Reply 26):
This was accomplished by making some necessary FADEC software changes and few, if any mods to the powerplant itself.

On some, but not all of the fleet... give me time and I can pull the regs, but IINM, the first eight ships had to have the 3D-Aero physically installed before they were able to do so.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5334
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:02 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 19):
Customers awaiting delivery include:

- Air Canada
- Delta Airlines
- Emirates
- EVA Air
- Qatar Airways

and Air France, launch company for the B777LRF
 
777gk
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:00 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 28):

On some, but not all of the fleet... give me time and I can pull the regs, but IINM, the first eight ships had to have the 3D-Aero physically installed before they were able to do so.

Yes, forgot about that. IIRC ships 017/018 were delivered with -94B modification and the 3D-Aero fan blades installed, as will 019/020 in a few weeks. The first 14 ships of the initial order (up to Peter Max, N77014, don't know l/n offhand) were definitely modified aftermarket. 015/016, part of a separate order may or may not have been delivered with -94B. My gut says no, these two ships entered service in Spring '00, and I'm not sure the mod was even certified at that point.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 25):
CDG-LGW

Meant EWR-LGW, CO obviously doesn't fly CDG-LGW.
 
phollingsworth
Posts: 759
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:05 am

RE: 777-200ER To LR

Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting 777gk (Reply 30):
Yes, forgot about that. IIRC ships 017/018 were delivered with -94B modification and the 3D-Aero fan blades installed, as will 019/020 in a few weeks.

All new build GE90s will have the -94B BOM. You would have to upgrade those engine produced before the BOM was availible as an option or became standard

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