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jimyvr
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Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:04 pm

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...&art_id=vn20070227013230231C172769


British businessman Jamie Robertson, who was offended when a stewardess threw a blanket over him as he comforted his same-sex partner on a Comair flight, has received an apology from the airline......

......Comair joint CEO Gidon Novick said the matter had been resolved and "we're in contact and talking about how we can help (Robertson) in future".
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WMUPilot
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Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:03 pm

Doesn't Comair operate at a British Airways partner carrier or something like that? I don't quite know the relationship between the 2
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swissgabe
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:18 pm

Quoting WMUPilot (Reply 1):
Doesn't Comair operate at a British Airways partner carrier or something like that? I don't quite know the relationship between the 2

Yes, they do have a franchising agreement with BA. They also operate as Kulula (www.kulula.com)
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vv701
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:03 pm

Quoting WMUPilot (Reply 1):
Doesn't Comair operate at a British Airways partner carrier or something like that? I don't quite know the relationship between the 2

Yes. And BA have invested in Comair. I think that they own around 18 per cent of Comair's equity. (It is certainly less than 20 per cent and more than 14, but my memory fails me and the BA annual report where I read this is about 115 pages long! So if you want the precise figure go to the BA site and find out!)
 
qslinger
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
"we're in contact and talking about how we can help (Robertson) in future".

Leaving them alone would be a damn good idea I think!!!
Raj Koona
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:53 am

...or of course the pax in question could have considered that in many parts of the world people do not wish to see two men cuddling.

On the aviation side, those 727's in BA colours were really great.

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mjt909
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:59 am

Quote:
...or of course the pax in question could have considered that in many parts of the world people do not wish to see two men cuddling.

Well I don't really wish to see two straight people cuddling, no matter where I am in the world. It still doesn't justify me throwing things at them, especially while I'm at work.
 
drgmobile
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:02 am

...or of course the pax in question could have considered that in many parts of the world people do not wish to see two men cuddling.

The pax in question probably considered that if South Africa truly expects to to considered the first world nation desirious of tourist and business dollars it seems to want to be, the "wishes" of a bigoted flight attendant probably didn't rate that highly.
 
EvilForce
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting Mjt909 (Reply 8):
Well I don't really wish to see two straight people cuddling, no matter where I am in the world. It still doesn't justify me throwing things at them, especially while I'm at work.

Agreed. The article simply said he had his arm around him. Would hate to see what would have happened had one gave the other a peck on the cheek.
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
sstsomeday
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 7):
...or of course the pax in question could have considered that in many parts of the world people do not wish to see two men cuddling.

Or perhaps people in many parts of the world need to be dragged out of the dark ages kicking and screaming...
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turk223
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 7):
...or of course the pax in question could have considered that in many parts of the world people do not wish to see two men cuddling.

Of course, people in many parts of the world should be worried about more important things than their not wishing to see two men cuddling. Should I compile a list of these more important things?

And, frankly, I don't really want to see anyone cuddling. So, I mind my own business. Easy enough...
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:30 am

Whoa.. hold on there guys, my comment was in no way gay-bashing. If you followed the link....

"Our cabin crew on the said flight were called upon by passengers because they were uncomfortable with the extent of Robertson and his partner's public displays of amorous behaviour.

"Our flight report... records the turn of events and notes that the crew member who addressed the couple clearly and politely stated she was not reflecting her opinion, or that of the airline. However some passengers were uncomfortable with what was unfolding."

----
Andz, what was that pop-up about - the one saying fight the new government act censoring what you will be able to read in the papers?
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andz
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 14):
Andz, what was that pop-up about - the one saying fight the new government act censoring what you will be able to read in the papers?

I don't see pop ups, my blocker works well  Smile
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ScottB
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 7):
...or of course the pax in question could have considered that in many parts of the world people do not wish to see two men cuddling.

But the South African Constitution prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, among many things. If the flight attendant would have done the same with a heterosexual couple, there would be no issue.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:02 am

Sorry, it wasn't a pop-up, it was an ad on the side. Found something on it:

Business Day

... although apologies, this is not a CivAv item really
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pacifique75
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:14 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):
If the flight attendant would have done the same with a heterosexual couple, there would be no issue.

I doubt if the crew would take any action if it was a heterosexual couple!! We see it on a regular basis and people
dont even look twice; its accepted as "normal" behaviour... Cabin crew are not "prude" police!
 
skyhigh777
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting Mjt909 (Reply 8):
Well I don't really wish to see two straight people cuddling, no matter where I am in the world. It still doesn't justify me throwing things at them, especially while I'm at work.

I completely agree. I was once on a UA flight from LHR-IAD and a man and a woman were sitting across the aisle from me creating their own motel 6 environment. I just think no one really wants to see anyone else going at it in a public place, whether they are straight or gay. However, the article mentions that the man was "comforting" his partner and I don't think that an arm around a person of the same or opposite sex should matter anywhere in the world. Still, I think there is a line to be drawn between what is appropriate PDA and what is not, whether you are gay or straight.
 
christopherwoo
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:23 am

I'm not condoning it at all but a lot of people still find same sex partners together difficult. Everyone is very PC now but in reality a lot of people don't feel comfortable watching two men kiss and cuddle. Before i worked as cabincrew i remember sitting in the cinema and two guys in the row infront started kissing. I remember feeling really uncomfortable and yet next to us another couple (guy and girl) were doing the same and i didnt mind at all. Now i work with mainly homosexual male colleagues it dosn't bother me one bit, i guess this is because i am much more use to it. What does everyone else think? not a bash against homosexuals btw, just an honest opinion.
 
EvilForce
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 20):

I think you are recommending that more gay couples openly kiss, hug, and are affectionate so as to get everyone used to the idea.  Wink  duck 
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christopherwoo
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 21):
I think you are recommending that more gay couples openly kiss, hug, and are affectionate so as to get everyone used to the idea

Not really, im just suggesting that it may be due to the fact that you don't see two men kissing often that leads to the feeling of being uncomfortable with it. I'm not saying i see it every day because i don't. But a few of my mates from work are gay and since i started working as crew it dosn't really bother me any more. I still don't get enjoyment out of watching two men kissing but who gets enjoyment out of watching a straight couple kiss? However i think i would still feel more uncomfortable watching two men kissing than a straight couple kissing.
 
EvilForce
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 22):

I was only teasing. But only kind of. Once society gets used to it, it will be no different than seeing two straight couples kiss/show affection. I guess what two people do that isn't affecting me has never made me uncomfortable. I think sometimes people forget that they don't have the right to not be offended.
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
osiris30
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 23):
Once society gets used to it, it will be no different than seeing two straight couples kiss/show affection

Whoa now.. TWO straight couples kissing.. hrmm.. now that could be interesting and not something you see everyday  Wink

(Sorry I had to LOL)
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
vv701
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:22 am

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 9):
Or perhaps people in many parts of the world need to be dragged out of the dark ages kicking and screaming...

How sad. Different societies have different ethics and moral codes. For example some societies do not believe in execution for even the most heinous of crimes, others reserve execution for such crimes while still others have the death penalty for what many would consider relatively minor crimes.

So this raises an important question. If one person decides to cover a heterosexual or homosexual couple behaving somewhat intimately in an airliner cabin after being ignored when politely requesting they desist because of the sensibilities of other passengers and another says that person 'needs to be dragged out of the dark ages kicking and screaming' which of the two is being the biggest bigot?

Both heterosexual and homosexual couples should have the right to behave as they please when not in public. But do they really have the right to behave as they please in public anywhere in the world. And if heavy petting in an airline cabin is permissible is full intercourse also permissible or is there somewhere where a line needs to be drawn and if so where?

As to this incident my personal view is that many acts of violence committed today are often an over reaction to a lack of sensibility to the variations in morals and ethics in different societies. But when you are travelling or living outside of your own society it is necessary that you both both familiarise yourself with and fully respect the moral codes of that society when in public.

[Edited 2007-03-01 01:23:57]

[Edited 2007-03-01 01:25:00]
 
EvilForce
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):

Obviously if the airline apologized and offered compenation they realized they were in the wrong and holding unequal standards.

In fact gay marriage is legal in South Africa. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2005/12/01/AR2005120100583.html

Unfortunately, many bigots expect people to just wait and wait and wait until society is ready to grant them equal rights. Many of these bigots would still expect blacks to sit at the back of the bus had it not been for Rosa Parks. Cape Town has a vibrant, expanding, an awesome gay scene. Obviously, this flight attendant acted inappropriately.

The issue wasn't about two men having sex with each other. It was two men engaging in similar behavior heterosexuals do. This wasn't Iran Airlines flying within Iran. It's a publically traded company that partners with British Airways, an airline that actively courts the gay community.
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
jbernie
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 21):
Whoa now.. TWO straight couples kissing.. hrmm.. now that could be interesting and not something you see everyday

(Sorry I had to LOL)

Now if it was two females... then people would want a video of it. (half joking)

Unfortunately the article is rather brief in details so it is hard to form a fair opinion on the situation.
If the FA "threw" the blanket at them then regardless of who is doing what, that is just poor service.
If the gents were being rather lovey dovey then regardless of them being gay, the FA can and should ask them to turn down the heat a bit. One doesn't buy a plane ticket for a peep show.

Regardless of ones sexual preference, when on a plane you can't just get away from the other passengers. So you should always keep your actions very proper. I can't say I desire having to have the couple in front of me making out for 8 hours. Wait till you get to your house or hotel and party on. While on a plane in a public space, behave.
 
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PA110
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay

Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
And if heavy petting in an airline cabin is permissible is full intercourse also permissible or is there somewhere where a line needs to be drawn and if so where?

This is a silly analogy. Nobody said there was any heavy petting. You're trying to construct a slippery slope, where there is no cause to do so. Heavy petting regardless of gender is no more acceptable in an enclosed public space than any other overt form of intimacy. However, according to the article, this was simply a matter of one guy having his arm around the other. I would hardly call that heavy petting. Everyone should exercise sound judgment with regards to public behavior. However, it is unacceptable to single out a same sex couple when the exact same behavior between a man and woman wouldn't even merit a second glance. (especially in South Africa, where gays have the right to marry)
Look, it's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
 
vv701
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:16 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 25):
Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
And if heavy petting in an airline cabin is permissible is full intercourse also permissible or is there somewhere where a line needs to be drawn and if so where?

This is a silly analogy. Nobody said there was any heavy petting.

Not only is it not silly but it is not even an analogy. It is a question. I said:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
Both heterosexual and homosexual couples should have the right to behave as they please when not in public. But do they really have the right to behave as they please in public anywhere in the world. And if heavy petting in an airline cabin is permissible is full intercourse also permissible or is there somewhere where a line needs to be drawn and if so where?

As you said nobody including me said there was heavy petting on the Comair flight but the Comair flight did involve a homosexual couple whereas my question is about both homosexual and heterosexual couples. Yes. You do not have to tell me, Nobody said it was a heterosexual couple - I just broadened the discussion. But neither you nor anyone else except Jbernie has addressed what I regard as both a serious and legitimate issue. Jbernie's view is:

Quoting Jbernie (Reply 24):
Regardless of ones sexual preference, when on a plane you can't just get away from the other passengers. So you should always keep your actions very proper.

That seems to me to be a conservative but - particularly when travelling away from home - very sound approach.
 
chgoflyer
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:12 pm

What exactly is "comforting". I need an understanding of what that means before I can draw conclusion. Some may get comfort in a comforting arm while some may may get comforting in oral sex.
Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
 
EvilForce
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:17 pm

Quoting Chgoflyer (Reply 27):
What exactly is "comforting". I need an understanding of what that means before I can draw conclusion. Some may get comfort in a comforting arm while some may may get comforting in oral sex.

Oh good grief it wasn't oral sex, don't be ridiculous.

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?art_id=vn20070225081814726C388042


"During the flight he [Van Tonder] had his head on my shoulder and I had my arm around him.

'I certainly did not have my tongue down his throat or my hand down his pants...I explained to her my boyfriend was upset and needed comforting. I certainly did not have my tongue down his throat or my hand down his pants. She then asked what was wrong with him at which point Francois also asked her to go away. She then offered us a drink.

"However, we do not drink alcohol. She then explained that she was 'only the messenger' and that we were not to express anger to her," he said. Robertson said giving comfort and showing affection to anyone was a basic human right.

"I would have behaved and have behaved exactly the same with my brother, girlfriends, boyfriends and mother on numerous flights with you and other airlines and never been asked to 'cover it up'."
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
sstsomeday
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RE: Comair(Africa) Apologize Throw Blanket To Gay Couple

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:36 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
But when you are travelling or living outside of your own society it is necessary that you both both familiarise yourself with and fully respect the moral codes of that society when in public.

I can agree with that, to a point. However, I consider the cabin of an international flight to be International territory.

That said, if a society's customs stem from of lack of human rights, an expectation of blind servitude and obedience, oppression of minorities, denial of the right to object, etc., then I cannot condone or honor that society's customs or habits based on "oh that's just how they do things there." Coming from a free society, relatively speaking, I think we are more able to judge societies which are not free, because we are more accustomed and expected to think for ourselves and be objective, again, relatively speaking. I will never feel obligated "to fully respect moral codes" of oppressive societies. Nor do civilized societies do so, which is why we have such things as refugee status for people fleeing unjust political or religious persecution.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
If one person decides to cover a heterosexual or homosexual couple behaving somewhat intimately in an airliner cabin after being ignored when politely requesting they desist because of the sensibilities of other passengers and another says that person needs to be dragged out of the dark ages kicking and screaming' which of the two is being the biggest bigot?

I cannot be accused of bigotry because I object to someone's bigotry.

Additionally, I cannot condone someone's bigotry or intolerance purely because they "feel" it very deeply. Prejudice is emotional, it's roots are anthropological and it's trigger primitive, based on the human survival response of being hostile to that which is foreign to us. Prejudice is deep seated and irrational, and needs to be challenged, not coddled.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
And if heavy petting in an airline cabin is permissible is full intercourse also permissible

It doesn't help your case by arguing hypotheticals that didn't happen. My understanding was that one person was consoling or comforting another. If they were "heavy petting," I would not condone that between any people in public, especially in a closed space when I cannot walk away. But is that what they were doing?

For the purposes of this thread, I would submit to you that airlines, airline crews and passengers are a microcosm of the ever-shrinking world at large, and in order for us to get along there must be mutual respect, as you say, but respect based on tolerance, acceptance, and a reasonable amount of personal freedom, not repression.

I hope this is on topic and I appreciate the exchange.
I come in peace

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