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LHStarAlliance
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Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:53 pm

Lufthansa will not like this ...

In German :

http://www.aero.de/news.php?varnewsid=2818

Translation with Abacho.de :

the Arabian Airline of emirate wants to develop the Hamburg airport to a spider in Europe. As the news magazine "Focus" announces, then should start from Germany from flights in the whole world, like already from Dubai, the seat of the society from the united Arab Emirates. Airport speaker Stefanie Harder said to the "Focus": " Of emirate Hamburg has selected itself as a preferential location in Europe. From here flights should start, above all, in the direction of east and waistcoats. " Nowadays Hamburg approaches of emirate only two spots daily. Nevertheless, the very expanding airline negotiates about other start approvals and land approvals.

Konstantin
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stylo777
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:55 pm

would be great for HAM, but it is in my eyes very unlikely
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 1):
would be great for HAM, but it is in my eyes very unlikely

IMO it´s very likely ...

Maybe they´ll base some 380s at HAM ...

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 1):
next flight: LH8949 FRA-JFK with A380!!!!!!

Oh man you´re lucky you got the flight ...

Viel Spass !

Konstantin

Edit : Pics please !!!

[Edited 2007-03-04 15:00:04]
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stylo777
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 2):
Oh man you´re lucky you got the flight ...

Viel Spass !

Konstantin

 Wink

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 2):
Maybe they´ll base some 380s at HAM ...

is HAM A380 ready? I don't think so...
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:18 pm

They could use Finkenwerder ..the runway has been expanded !
 Wink  Wink
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kiwiandrew

RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
From here flights should start, above all, in the direction of east and waistcoats.

east and waistcoats ? .... perhaps the East and West Coasts ?
 
Leskova
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:28 pm

HAM as hub? What next?

Seriously, I either don't see this happening - or if it does, I don't see it succeeding. There's just not that much demand from HAM.
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:28 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
From here flights should start, above all, in the direction of east and waistcoats.

east and waistcoats ? .... perhaps the East and West Coasts ?

Hehe , sorry ... Online Translator
 blush 
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 6):
HAM as hub? What next?

Seriously, I either don't see this happening - or if it does, I don't see it succeeding. There's just not that much demand from HAM.

Well , but for US/Europe - All World Flights it could be used as a Hub ...
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Lumberton
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 3):
is HAM A380 ready? I don't think so...

I'm trying to square this news with Rheinbote's post on this thread: UPS To Cancel A380 Order (by Airportplan Mar 2 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 108):
As pointed out in another thread, due to legal nitty gritties the high-gross weight A380F had to be instrumentalized as an argument for getting the RWY extension through in XFW (rather needed for the 389, but it cannot be utilized as in legal terms it still is hypothetic). Both tree-huggers and NIMBYs had filed several protracted lawsuits against Airbus and the German State of Hamburg to forestall the construction work, which so far failed. In his Power8 speech Airbus CEO Gallois 'conceded' A380 work to Hamburg, but explicitly made the conclusion of the RWY extension works conditional - for more than obvious reasons: As the A380F is pivotal to the lawsuits, which are not yet fully concluded, there's a fair chance now that the 'building licence' for the RWY may utlimately be withdrawn. That would effectively put an end to the planned 380 delivery center at Hamburg and would severly impact a role of Hamburg in any future large aircraft program.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
airfrnt
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:33 pm

So much for the idea that Dubai was the end all be all of hubs.
 
Leskova
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 9):
I'm trying to square this news with Rheinbote's post on this thread:

Why? It's two different airports... or which issue are you having problems with?

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 8):
Well , but for US/Europe - All World Flights it could be used as a Hub ...

True, it could... but I still don't think that HAM is the best suited location, aside from the lack of local demand. HAM can't be expanded by much (if by anything at all), so the whole thing has a capacity cap right from the start. And I'd say that a hub should also always be a city with strong own demand, more than HAM can offer.
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CV580Freak
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:51 pm

All EK need to do now is snap up an EC carrier and they have the feed they need to make HAM a huge success  Smile
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 11):
always be a city with strong own demand, more than HAM can offer.

Well there are cities like FRA , London , MUC , Paris , etc but they can´t go there because of the Slots , so maybe HAM as a very central European city , near the Ruhr Gebiet , France , Benelux and Scandinavian countries , and Hamburg being a very big city with more than 600 millionaires , I think the richest one in Germany ... is not a bad choose ...

So maybe not the best location as FRA or London would be but better than Glasgow (for example)

Konstantin
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Beaucaire
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:54 pm

If I would want to set up a second hub for EK ,I'd chose London Gatwick ,Rome or CDG over HAM anytime...
Politically I don't see it fly due to LH pressure to block any more EK flights into Germany.But it is an indication for LH that there are opportunities that are untapped within Germany that might require some action.They started by installing a "betterfly" hub in HAM but that only covers Europe.
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UA 777
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:09 am

As much as I personally would like to have an EK hub in HAM, I do not see it coming.
The main reason is that HAM, due to its location in close proximity to the city, cannot be expanded like DXB or even like other airports in Europe.
In addition, the flight to JFK does not seem to develop as good as to justify plans like that...

Therefore I do not see how EK would come up with plans like that for HAM.

But lets wait and see, it would be great.

Edit: I do not think that the demand from the city itself is an issue. There are cities that are much smaller with way bigger airports than HAM. HAM (population of 1,75 million) is one of the few big cities in Europe that did not have many long-haul connections for a long time (this changed only recently with CO's and EK's services to EWR, DXB and JFK) so I see their idea to somehow fill the gap.

[Edited 2007-03-04 16:17:11]
 
patroni
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:40 am

Anyone got an idea on EK's traffic rights situation ex HAM? I can not imagine that they can just go ahead and start any route as they please...
 
Comeflywithme
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:51 am

This will not happen for several reasons, it is not allowed under the rules for a start and why use Hamburg as a hub when they fly just about everywhere in Europe as it is.

Journalistic nonsense.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 14):
London Gatwick ,Rome or CDG

Are there enough slots ?
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Beaucaire
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:03 am

CDG anf FCO are "relatively " uncongested,while Gatwick is relatively crowded...
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 19):

OK maybe CDG , but what FCO is nonsense as it´s too far away of Central Europe ...
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Leskova
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 20):

OK maybe CDG , but what FCO is nonsense as it´s too far away of Central Europe

Not worse than HAM from Southern Europe.

If you're flying from, say, Switzerland, Italy or Spain to Africa or South America, FCO would be either less "out-of-the-way" or even on the direct line, whereas HAM will be out of the way in any case.

Of course, that's also true for FRA, AMS, LHR or CDG - but it's rather unlikely that EK will ever, even if things go extremely well (and disregarding the, if I recall correctly, slight problem that EK cannot open any further flights to Germany because all route rights are exhausted), have a similar presence at HAM as LH, KL, BA or AF have at those airports.
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 21):

Not worse than HAM from Southern Europe.

Well but Northern Europe has more potential passengers than southern ... as the people are richer there...
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airbazar
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:26 am

EK wants to expand to North and South America and DXB alone is not an option unless you can fly non-stop from DXB to various cities in the Americas, which they can't unless they order a huge fleet of 772LR's. But they didn't, instead they ordered a bunch of A380's. So the most obvious solution is to setup a hub in Europe to serve the Americas. Whether it will be HAM or not, I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me.
 
stylo777
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:04 am

I could imagine only something like they do in Australia - a little hub with several flights, aircrafts and crews based there, but not that big like DXB.
 
COEI2007
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:17 am

Well, if EK and EI hurried up and signed a code-share deal, they could use DUB as a hub, and feed pax onto EI's t/a services!
 
Avianca
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 2):
Maybe they´ll base some 380s at HAM ...

hmmmm, maybe they will even base all ordered 380 there.....

Quoting Patroni (Reply 16):
Anyone got an idea on EK's traffic rights situation ex HAM? I can not imagine that they can just go ahead and start any route as they please...

as I understand the current agreement between Germany and UAE is that any airline of the both country's can start flights from the other country wherever they want...

As I understand LH pushed the german government in the 80s to sign the treat in order to have 5th freedom from DXB to Asia (in this years it was common for LH to stoop in DXB for some asia routes).


Well I am sure EK would find a carrier like AB that can feeder HAM from Europe.

Quoting Comeflywithme (Reply 17):
This will not happen for several reasons, it is not allowed under the rules for a start and why use Hamburg as a hub when they fly just about everywhere in Europe as it is.

Journalistic nonsense.

Well the hub would be used as America (North and South) and Westafrica gateway, it would make much sense as it would be a new market for EK, as you will not find much people that would fly DUS-DXB-IAH for example but DUS-HAM-IAH would make sense....

Anyway I also have my doubts that HAM has the capacity, maybe the new Berlin Airport could be a very good candiadte.... even more as it has a uniquie location in the "new" europe.

With all the plans EK has for expancion we will see other hubs beside DXB for them, I am even sure to see in every continent one (depends on bilaterals UEA has).....

cheers
Avianca
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 26):
Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 2):
Maybe they�ll base some 380s at HAM ...

hmmmm, maybe they will even base all ordered 380 there.....

Yeah sure ... 40 or more ...

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 25):
they could use DUB as a hub,

I think they search the near to middle Europe ... DUB would be a bit too far ...
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F-WWKH
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:59 am

Guess we have to wait and see. HAM is not A380 ready, and flights to the Airbus factory Finkenwerder make no sense at all, not least to the very bad traffic connection to the city. Maybe shuttle flights XFW-HAM  Wink

But with that big B777 and A330 fleet it is not all about the A380 after all.

And who knows about demand from HAM, are you all experts or is this pure guesswork? Anyway, thats what a hub is not about anyway. Look at FRA, its not the biggest city or region anyways. But lots of connections. Though HAM expansion possibilities are VERY limited.

Finally, and I kid you not: Live currently next to HAM airport and during my weekly shopping run Saturday noted a Ferrari on the road, all in itself something special but this one HAD DUBAI LICENSE PLATE !!

Wonder what it does here, and how it got here - are B777 cargo holds big enough? Well, likely via FRA  Wink

Don't hold your breath...
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Avianca
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting F-WWKH (Reply 28):
Look at FRA, its not the biggest city or region anyways

well FRA itself maybe not reach the 1 million, but the region is one of the biggest in germany, do not forget Mainz, Darmstadt, Mannheim, Offenbach, and all the smaller citys around.... + it was after the WW2 a US gateway...
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 29):
Quoting F-WWKH (Reply 28):
Look at FRA, its not the biggest city or region anyways

well FRA itself maybe not reach the 1 million, but the region is one of the biggest in germany, do not forget Mainz, Darmstadt, Mannheim, Offenbach, and all the smaller citys around.... + it was after the WW2 a US gateway...

All the Rhein-Main Gebiet

And almost get Capital city of Germany after WW2...
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flyorski
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:16 am

I would like to see it happen, but Hamburg is capacity constrained. I doubt anything will come of this.
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nateDAL
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:19 am

If they follow their precedent from JFK, it would be cool to see EK add IAH-HAM-DXB in addition to the n/s IAH-DXB starting in December.
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PA101
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:46 am

Would love it, if they did it...

HAM has always been neglected by LH, which simply focusses on FRA and MUC (since MUC got that new airport that had been also planned in HAM, but which was never built...).

By the way, I'll be flying HAM-JFK on EK on March 31st (heaviely discounted couch though...). I'll see, what the loads, especially up front in F and J, will be.

But it might work, with some specific routes and a feeder-arrangement. Overall, connections in HAM would be much quicker and with less distances and hassle, compared to CDG.
 
Avianca
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:52 am

Quoting PA101 (Reply 33):
But it might work, with some specific routes and a feeder-arrangement

btw, how is the JAT feeder is Belgrad doing??? And do they only feeder the JFK flight or also the DXB flights? Asking as also the DXB flight would be intresting in order to offer X destinations via the hub to Asia and specially Australia.
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UAEflyer
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:00 am

Even when EK started their 5th daily flight to LHR they said the same thing, that EK will use LHR as a co-hub.
If they would do it, HAM is the wrong place to do hub in. They better think about U.K (Gatwick, Manchester, Glasgow).

Furthermore, HAM is expansive place to maintain aircrafts (maintenance, fuel, tax, cargo costs.....etc)
 
Avianca
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 35):
They better think about U.K (Gatwick, Manchester, Glasgow).

maybe even STN with a decent Easyjet Feeder.... ?
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jacobin777
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 10):
So much for the idea that Dubai was the end all be all of hubs.

nothing being said that both can't be used has hubs concurrently.... Wink

....though I don't think EK will be using HAM as a hub anytime soon.. no 

Quoting Leskova (Reply 6):

Seriously, I either don't see this happening - or if it does, I don't see it succeeding. There's just not that much demand from HAM.

...neither do I......IIRC, wasn't there a thread here stating that the DXB-HAM-JFK route is going from the B773ER to the A345...?

Of course, it could be because they are going to focus on yields as the A345 F-class is much more superior than their B773ER F-class...

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 14):
If I would want to set up a second hub for EK ,I'd chose London Gatwick ,Rome or CDG over HAM anytime...



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 19):
CDG anf FCO are "relatively " uncongested,while Gatwick is relatively crowded...

..you partly answered your own question...LGW is a bit too restrained really to expand a lot, especially given there are other alternatives..

Quoting Avianca (Reply 26):
as I understand the current agreement between Germany and UAE is that any airline of the both country's can start flights from the other country wherever they want...

As I understand LH pushed the german government in the 80s to sign the treat in order to have 5th freedom from DXB to Asia (in this years it was common for LH to stoop in DXB for some asia routes).

 checkmark .....that is something EK's Clark was instrumental at with EK during the 80's...negotiating for a lot of 5th freedom rights and open skies agreements (such as with the USofA).....

Cheers...
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COEI2007
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 27):
Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 25):
they could use DUB as a hub,

I think they search the near to middle Europe ... DUB would be a bit too far ...

Its far west, which is ideal for a hub to the US. With daily ORD, JFK, LAX and BOS, and hopefully with O/S, SFO, MIA and PHL, an EI and EK alliance could make DUB a good connecting point for EK pax! EK could operate daily DXB-DUB, and use EI to connect pax! The only thing would be EI's own DXB service, which they might not like getting competition on, but if it means more pax on their T/A service, who cares!!!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:38 am

If worse comes to worse,EK can always create a German,French or Italian Daughter in order to avoid conflicts between 5th and 7 th rights in airtransport. ( 5th right requires originating departure airport in flightpath ) e.a. DBX-HAM-LAX ,whereas 7th right of freedom offers unlimited rights between any airports -e.a. CAI-HAM-JFK....but using EK aircraft.
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:41 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 39):
f worse comes to worse,EK can always create a German,French or Italian Daughter in order to avoid conflicts between 5th and 7 th rights in airtransport. ( 5th right requires originating departure airport in flightpath ) e.a. DBX-HAM-LAX ,whereas 7th right of freedom offers unlimited rights between any airports -e.a. CAI-HAM-JFK....but using EK aircraft.

Something like KLM Asia ?
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GLAGAZ
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 35):
They better think about U.K (Gatwick, Manchester, Glasgow).

DXB-GLA-IAH...Now theres a route that would make money Big grin

Gaz
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PA101
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:52 am

Hey guys, don't underestimate HAM. Just because it's been underserved for years...
It has a large community of Iranians (that's why HAM-THR works for IR), and Africans.. Besides, it's the EUs second richest region!

So the yields could be quite alright - the main reason for HAMs lack of services is that LH never really served it well, thus making Hamburgers used to connections in FRA (or AMS or LHR). Sure, it's not LON or PAR, but smart scheduling could make it work... the capacity right now is alright for further long-haul flight and some additional european feeders...
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting PA101 (Reply 42):
Besides, it's the EUs second richest region!

What´s the richest ? Luxembourg ?

Quoting PA101 (Reply 42):
So the yields could be quite alright - the main reason for HAMs lack of services is that LH never really served it well, thus making Hamburgers used to connections in FRA

Well in the time of the Super Constelations it was the main Hub !
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PA101
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting PA101 (Reply 42):
Besides, it's the EUs second richest region!

What´s the richest ? Luxembourg ?


Yeah - could very well be; but might as well be the London area. I just know about Hamburg being second.

Quoting PA101 (Reply 42):
So the yields could be quite alright - the main reason for HAMs lack of services is that LH never really served it well, thus making Hamburgers used to connections in FRA

Well in the time of the Super Constelations it was the main Hub !


Yeah... I suppose, if Kaltenkirchen would have been built (and opened before MUC), then today HAM might be LHs second hub.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting PA101 (Reply 44):
could very well be; but might as well be the London area

Hamburg is by far richer than the London area ... it´s Luxembourg ...
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DAL767400ER
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:19 am

Oh great, that means that the folks at the "Bild" newspaper will now have an orgasm over this idea and use 3 pages of tomorrow's newspaper to tell us how great of an idea this is  Yeah sure . And last I heard, EK has downgraded its 77W to an A345 because the loads simply weren't there, which should be a tell-tale sign for any logically thinking airline. But then again, the words "logic" and "Emirates" never got along very well.
An EK hub at Hamburg, yeah right.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:22 am

JFK-HAM-DXB is switching from 77W to 345. I'm looking into buying a ticket to DXB in June and I see it in the schedules.
 
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sralfalo
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:25 am

allow me a maybe ignorant question:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
Lufthansa will not like this ...

why wouldn't Lufthansa?

thank you

Lars
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Emirates To Use Hamburg As Hub

Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting Sralfalo (Reply 48):
Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
Lufthansa will not like this ...

why wouldn't Lufthansa?

because they have more concurrence on flights like HAM - JFK or HAM-DXB etc..., people who fly now with EK would be maybe flying with LH ... more concurrence less passengers for each company = less money

Edit : false airport code ...

[Edited 2007-03-04 22:32:43]
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !

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