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heliflyerPDC
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VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:20 pm

Hay

I read this news on Luchtvaartneuws.nl.


Quote:

The new airplane Will join the fleet in the middle of April.It Will fly on the route RTM-LCY (4 of the already 10 flights Will be with the 146.) It Will have a 2+3 configuration, with 92leather seats, and Will have a legroom of 32 inches (81cm).

The plane Will be evaluated n 2007 and if the integration of the plane goes well, VLM is likely the a a second plane of this type. VLM will look at +/-20 new routes in range of more than 500km of LCY(the plane has a greater range than the existing Fokker F50).

Source: http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=19042


grtz PDC

[Edited 2007-03-05 11:24:54]
grtz PDC
 
TriStar500
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:24 pm

There have rumors covering a potential BAe-146/ARJ-procurement for years now, maybe this time it is finally becoming true.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
heliflyerPDC
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:26 pm

I know, but I presume they were waiting for the REKKOF/FOKKER restart. Demand became to big so they had to make a chose.

grtz PDC

[Edited 2007-03-05 11:27:05]
grtz PDC
 
FRALIM
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:31 pm

Here is the press release from their website (including artist impression of the plane). So it really seems confirmed this time. Well done VLM (especially regarding their 2-3 layout).
 
heliflyerPDC
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:33 pm

thx FRALIM

It looks nice.

grtz PDC
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slz396
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:38 pm

Good to see another Belgian airline operating the BAe146! (after SN -also 5 abreast- and TNT charters: 6 abreast)

They should have gone for the RJ series though, the BAe146 is a bit worn out as a passenger plane and not really state of the art any more: even as a passenger you can notice this (old style overhead bins, lavatories, galleys etc etc)
 
TriStar500
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:46 pm

It was bound to happen eventually. Increasing slot restricitons at their main focus airport (LCY) coupled with obviously successful yield management have produced a steady rise of passenger volumes on their key routes, which can no longer be served with small equipment like the F-50.

VLM has seemingly carved a niche with high-yield niche routes, which are served with cheap, well-used but technologically good aircraft liek the Fokker and now the BAe. I bet the profit margin is pretty good on most of their flights.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
cyba
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:59 pm

I'm glad to see this too, especially that they are considering new routes. They're generally a very reliable airline, in my experience, with perfectly adequate and friendly service. But whenever I've flown them I have been surprised with how low the load factors have been - I've never been on one of their planes with more than 40% occupancy. Guess their costs must be substantially lower to have good margins on these.
 
MACDADDY
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:28 pm

My understanding is this will be a Flightline aircraft.

MAC
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting Cyba (Reply 7):
But whenever I've flown them I have been surprised with how low the load factors have been - I've never been on one of their planes with more than 40% occupancy.

Well, I've flown them 4 times now, and always full house (or plane)...

Cheers!  wave 
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dhhornet
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:15 pm

It is great the 146s finds another operator. Great news for us mourning the late British aircraft industry.
Not bad for an aircraft with 4 thirsty engines, smoke in the cabin, and very slow - as reported by some ANetters!
I guess if they go for them in the future they will look more closely at the RJ100 or RJ85?
 
N1120A
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:15 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 5):
They should have gone for the RJ series though

Harder to find

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 5):
the BAe146 is a bit worn out as a passenger plane and not really state of the art any more

How so? I mean, the 146 is still the best aircraft for what it was designed to do.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 5):
even as a passenger you can notice this (old style overhead bins, lavatories, galleys etc etc)

Those things can all be changed by the airline.

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 6):
which can no longer be served with small equipment like the F-50.

I think range is more VLM's concern here as opposed to aircraft size. I wonder if they have looked at getting the Q400 into LCY
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
slz396
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:31 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
The 146 is still the best aircraft for what it was designed to do.

I think you'll find the AVRO RJ to be a tiny little bit more efficient, performant and quieter than its predecessor...

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Those things can all be changed by the airline.

In theory yes, although I don't know of many older regional planes which get completely refurbished inside, especially not if it is a wet lease from

Quoting MACDADDY (Reply 8):
Flightline
 
dhhornet
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:37 pm

If they do like them see:
http://www.airtrading.com/rca.htm#x146

Not many RJ100s about but BAE do a full make over of the older aircraft. See in the news section http://www.smiliner.com/index.html

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
How so? I mean, the 146 is still the best aircraft for what it was designed to do



Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Those things can all be changed by the airline.

Yep!

Or Rekkof start building the RJX !  wink 
 
Joost
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
I wonder if they have looked at getting the Q400 into LCY

Isn't the aircraft qualified yet for LCY?

It seems to be an interesting aircraft, especially as it is, according to their own specifications, a pretty fast aircraft, that allows further away destinations to be served well.

Pure range is not the real issue of the F50, it's the speed that makes it unfeasable for an airline like VLM. When flying for example LCY-BCN on a F50, the time you save at LCY compared to LHR/LGW/STN, you lose in the air.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
I think range is more VLM's concern here as opposed to aircraft size.

Size is defenitely an issue for the RTM market. The airport has very tight environmental regulations that limit the number of flights VLM can operate. Very often in Dutch press, they have stated that they'd like to expand from RTM, but that they're limited to a certain number of movements. Now, by replacing 4 daily F50s with 146s, they actually increase capacity by 33%.
 
bhxdtw
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:46 pm

Nice pic in the link...
Probably the nicest color scheme ive seen on an Avro or Bae !!

Regards,


Joe...
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:54 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 5):
the BAe146 is a bit worn out as a passenger plane and not really state of the art any more

How so? I mean, the 146 is still the best aircraft for what it was designed to do.

the dispatch reliability of EW's and EN's BAe fleets is really, really bad, and they've got some of the younger BAe frames in their fleets. although Avro's are harder to find and so the BAe's are the natural alternative, I will holdback any enthusiasm as to VLM getting BAe's. I'm all for their expansion, but i hope they won't hit themselves in the foot with this old type.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
dhhornet
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:01 pm

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 16):
the dispatch reliability of EW's and EN's BAe fleets is really, really bad, and they've got some of the younger BAe frames in their fleets. although Avro's are harder to find and so the BAe's are the natural alternative, I will holdback any enthusiasm as to VLM getting BAe's. I'm all for their expansion, but i hope they won't hit themselves in the foot with this old type.

The thing is Brussels/Swiss/Cityjet/Swiss/BA/Flightline etc operated them so they can't be that bad??
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:35 am

@ DHHornet
But don't they primarily operate Avro RJ85s/RJ100s? those are much younger, have more reliable engines and so require less maintenance.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
dhhornet
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 18):
@ DHHornet
But don't they primarily operate Avro RJ85s/RJ100s? those are much younger, have more reliable engines and so require less maintenance.

If you look at the fleets a fair few in some are still 146s (except Swiss)
 
vfw614
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:06 pm

I thinkg the point is that this is a simple wet-lease (it is a Flightline aircraft). If I am not mistaken, there are no RJs available for wet-leases unless you go for the RJ70 offered by Transwede. The two specialist operators in Europe, Flightline and WDL, only have BAe 146 in their portfolio.

If VLM should decide to operate jets on their own, I am pretty sure they would be trying to source Avro RJs.
 
BMED
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 5):
They should have gone for the RJ series

Like someone said, I guess there arn't too many around. Don't know how many Northwest has left over?
Living the jetset life! No better way to be
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 20):
If VLM should decide to operate jets on their own, I am pretty sure they would be trying to source Avro RJs.

I think the RJ's are indeed their first choice considering they are a large operator at LCY. However, if (and I mean IF) Rekkof does suprise us all you will see the Fokker 70 as their jettype as Rekkof is owned by the same owner as VLM has.

Cheers!  wave 
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Joost
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 22):
However, if (and I mean IF) Rekkof does suprise us all you will see the Fokker 70 as their jettype as Rekkof is owned by the same owner as VLM has.

However, it was mentioned earlier dat the Rekkof plan has changed, and that they'd launch the F100NG before the F70NG. I'm not sure if VLM can wait that long. And as they are currently looking to quite some routes over 500 km, they will need jets to stay competitive.

Naturally, the people at VLM will have more information than we have about the actual chances for a Rekkof launch. I think VLM might also well be interested in aircraft like the E190.
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:15 am

Oh yes Big grin

Great to see another 146 operator  bouncy 




Lee
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heliflyerPDC
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 23):
I think VLM might also well be interested in aircraft like the E190.

the Embraer 170 demonstrator was at ANR a year or two ago. so you might be right.

grtz PDC
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BA787
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:18 am

I think the 146 will look really classy in the VLM livery. Hopefully we might see VLM expanding a bit more, using some AVRO RJs maybe, or even some more modern RJs
 
vfw614
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 23):
Naturally, the people at VLM will have more information than we have about the actual chances for a Rekkof launch. I think VLM might also well be interested in aircraft like the E190.

the E190 requires approx. 2.100m of runway, so pretty useless for an airline with more than 100 daily flights from LCY and little else....
 
heliflyerPDC
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 27):
the E190 requires approx. 2.100m of runway, so pretty useless for an airline with more than 100 daily flights from LCY and little else....

What about the E170. VLM was/s looking at that

grtz PDC
grtz PDC
 
stirling
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 16):
I will holdback any enthusiasm as to VLM getting BAe's. I'm all for their expansion, but i hope they won't hit themselves in the foot with this old type.

I have the same feeling.

Quoting Cyba (Reply 7):
I've never been on one of their planes with more than 40% occupancy.

And that is the beauty of the F50 in VLM operations....they don't need to sell every seat to eek out a profit.
Now, with the 143, an arguably expensive aircraft to operate....the next year of evaluation VLM is undertaking will be very interesting. I for one, do not think it is going to work out.....Only thing I can imagine is that VLM got a sweet deal.

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 16):
the dispatch reliability of EW's and EN's BAe fleets is really, really bad

I am acquainted with some gents that do overhauls on the Bae-14X powerplants.....and all I can say is that they are always busy.

What is the status of the Q400 being certified into LCY? I see that aircraft as much finer choice, but acquisition costs are most likely quite high. Same could be said about the ATR72...

Quoting Joost (Reply 14):
Pure range is not the real issue of the F50, it's the speed that makes it unfeasable for an airline like VLM. When flying for example LCY-BCN on a F50, the time you save at LCY compared to LHR/LGW/STN, you lose in the air.

I cannot really see that as being an issue as the distance is barely over 160nm...

STN: 0:50 HV 73G
LHR: 1:20 to 1:35 (depending on time of day) KLM F50
LCY: 1:00 VG F50

The Stanstead flights are Transavia 737s....which has a better time, but it is also closer, and less congested...
When the new schedules come out, the 143 might shave 5 minutes from the trip, 10 at the most....

I wish VLM luck! Viva to Small Independent Airlines!
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vfw614
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:55 am

The main issues are a) the need for a larger aircraft as some airports are slot constrained and b) the wish to be able to operate beyond a 500km perimeter. It is not so much the jet factor, but the fact that anything decently sized and with the necessary speed and range is a jet. Given that they need to operate from LCY, the only choice is the BAe 146 or the Fokker 70.
 
aviopic
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting HeliflyerPDC (Reply 28):
What about the E170. VLM was/s looking at that

The E170 LCY certification program was halted some time ago, don't know why though.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 30):
Given that they need to operate from LCY, the only choice is the BAe 146 or the Fokker 70.

Indeed which leaves the choice effectively limited to the 146 as there are no F70's available on the market.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
A340600
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:13 am

I love VLM, so good luck to them. I just hope that this isn't too much for them, they seem to be operating brilliantly at the moment,

Sam Smile
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
N1120A
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 14):
The airport has very tight environmental regulations that limit the number of flights VLM can operate. Very often in Dutch press, they have stated that they'd like to expand from RTM, but that they're limited to a certain number of movements. Now, by replacing 4 daily F50s with 146s, they actually increase capacity by 33%.

What kind of emmissions profile does the F50 have? Couldn't they make a case based on that?

Quoting Joost (Reply 14):
Isn't the aircraft qualified yet for LCY?

I don't know if it is or isn't. I can see its massive wingspan being a problem but I don't know if it has done certification or flies in there.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 12):
I think you'll find the AVRO RJ to be a tiny little bit more efficient, performant and quieter than its predecessor...

The point is a tiny bit. The 146 is still a very viable aircraft

Quoting Joost (Reply 14):
It seems to be an interesting aircraft, especially as it is, according to their own specifications, a pretty fast aircraft, that allows further away destinations to be served well.

The Q400 is extremely fast for a turboprop and actually outperforms jets on flights up to about 2h30m

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 16):
the dispatch reliability of EW's and EN's BAe fleets is really, really bad, and they've got some of the younger BAe frames in their fleets.

That may well be an airline or aircraft specific problem, not indicative of the family as a whole

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 27):
the E190 requires approx. 2.100m of runway

For its max range. On a shorter flight, it requires much, much less.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
YVRLTN
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:57 pm

I also enjoyed my flight with them, very professional. There was an interesting article about VLM in the Dec 06 issue of Airliner World - I cant find any link to the article on their website, so will type the section re 'fleet changes' - quoting Johan Vanneste VLM MD.

QUOTE
"We believe the Fokker 50 will play a role for at least the next five years" said Johan, but he acknowledged that they could be retained for a little longer as they are currently only at one third of their design life and could have another 15 to 20 years of commercial service ahead of them. However, the airlines management is looking at larger capacity aircraft for future network expansion. "Other aircraft are on the radar" he confirmed "and we are actively looking, testing and taking flights on some of the new models currently available. Either we move to an integrated family of aircraft that can accommodate the 50 - 80 seat requirement that we have, or we keep the Fokker 50 and introduce a larger type." The airline is studying the BAe 146 and Avro RJ families, the Bombardier Dash 8Q Series, the ATR 42 and 72 and the Embraer E-Jet family, but has already ruled out the Airbus A318. "We received an extensive briefing from Airbus on the aircraft but felt it did not meet our requirements" confirmed the VLM boss. The company remains in the evaluation stage and does not intend to make a formal decision over its futrure fleet until next year at the earliest, but Johan spoke very honestly about his personal opinions of the various aircraft types still under discussion. "I have had experience with the BAe 146 and Avro RJ's from my time at DAT. They are quiet aircraft and are the perfect size for LCY but we feel reliability may be an issue as they are not the newest models available. The Q400 is a very interesting aircraft that I like very much as it has the major advantage of being a turboprop and is already regularly used at LCY. The ATR's have a number of clever design features, like not having to use an external APU, but the problem is that the ATR 72 is not yet certified to fly into LCY. The Embraer 170 and 190 are both options as they are very nice aircraft but they are probably a little more expensive to run. On the flip side they do provide the opportunity to offer jet-like comfort and speeds and bring additional range to our network. Again, neither are currently certified for the Docklands airport, although the E170 is due to gain approval by the end of 2006" he said. With the first deliveries of any new family of aircraft unlikely to begin until later this decade, in the short term VLM is seeking to acquire some larger capacity aircraft on short term deals. "Today we could do with perhaps two or three bigger aircraft" explained Johan. "What we intend to do is try to arrange a wet lease with somebody to test the concept of a larger aircraft. We can then see if we can sell its capacity and sell it consistently throughout the day, month and to see what opportunities it will open for charters and weekend flying." Earlier this year VLM was in talks to lease an Avro RJ70 to serve its LCY to LUX link, and better compete with the jet aircraft introduced onto the route by its rival LG. "We were very close but in the end we decided not to go ahead with the plan" explained Johan. "However, in the next 12 months we will certainly start an experiment with a larger aircraft. It depends on what the availability is as to what type we decide to introduce. It could be a Q400, or an Avro, or a BAe 146 or even an E170 as we have already been offered an aircraft for wet lease, but what is certain is that it wil be a single unit on a single route to prove the concept" he added.
UNQUOTE

So there you go - that interview was Dec 06 and the last sentence has come to pass 3 months into the 12 month time frame. IMO, from reading this article, the Q400 is top of the pile here - also IMO, the order in which he lists the possible types for the trial is also telling, as also the order of preference long term - 1) Q400, 2) ARJ, 3) 146 4) E170. Now that as noted already the certification of the E170 at LCY has stopped, I imagine this is even firmer bottom of the pile - though I imagine Embraer would be keen to ensure this is started again if there a chance of a decent order from VLM as a result. Not a whisper of Rekkof...

Fair credit to Airliner World magazine and article author Richard Maslen.
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LifelinerOne
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:21 pm

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 34):
Not a whisper of Rekkof...

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=18929

Vanneste himself is talking about Rekkof in this newsbit. "VLM currently flies with an all Fokker 50 fleet, but is interested in the new Fokker jets".

Ah well, let's just wait and see.

Oh, wasn't the Fokker 100 once flown into LCY? Can somebody tell me more about this?

Cheers!  wave 
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:15 pm

Quoting BMED (Reply 21):
Like someone said, I guess there arn't too many around. Don't know how many Northwest has left over?

i believe most of them have been snatched up by AF's Cityjet subsidiary.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 27):
Quoting Joost (Reply 23):
Naturally, the people at VLM will have more information than we have about the actual chances for a Rekkof launch. I think VLM might also well be interested in aircraft like the E190.

the E190 requires approx. 2.100m of runway, so pretty useless for an airline with more than 100 daily flights from LCY and little else....

there's recently been a newsbit on atwonline.com concerning Flybaboo leasing a number of E190s. those would come with a modification so they would be able to operate steep approaches and landings. up to that point i also thought the E190 would not be able to operate into LCY. i used to think this modification was available and being tested only on E170s .

Quoting Stirling (Reply 29):
What is the status of the Q400 being certified into LCY? I see that aircraft as much finer choice, but acquisition costs are most likely quite high. Same could be said about the ATR72...

isn't the Q400 already operating into LCY??

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
The Q400 is extremely fast for a turboprop and actually outperforms jets on flights up to about 2h30m

I am curious to learn what exactly you ean by outperforming? if you are talking about costs on a seat mile basis, this if course depends on the carrier, but sounds alright. but it certainly does not outperform jets speed-wise on any routes.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 16):
the dispatch reliability of EW's and EN's BAe fleets is really, really bad, and they've got some of the younger BAe frames in their fleets.

That may well be an airline or aircraft specific problem, not indicative of the family as a whole

Debonair in the mid-90s had similar difficulties, as did any US operators of that type. there's also a saying that goes 'the BAe 146 is the most reliable three-engined aircraft'. yes, i know, they once said about the L-1049 as well.

quoting the interview typed by YVRLTN:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 34):
They are quiet aircraft and are the perfect size for LCY but we feel reliability may be an issue as they are not the newest models available.

this pretty much confirms that the E190 will be able to operate into LCY.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
vfw614
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:54 pm

I have never seen the E190 mentioned in the context of LCY operations other than here. I seriously doubt it. Even if the required runway is 2.100m only at MTOW, LCY only has 1.200m so it simply will not be able to lift any sensible loads.

There has always been talk about the E175 certified for LCY, and that's about it as far as the EJets are concerned. Even the E135 has big performance issues when operating into LCY, and it was never tried to certify the E145.

In brief, IMHO the E190 at LCY will not happen. Either it will be restricted to extremely short hops for which a large prop is much better suited or it so severly payload restricted that is does not make any sense. Remember that even the BAe 146s sometimes suffer from restrictions at LCY ahd have to offload bags, pax or catering.


As for the Q400, the aircraft is certified for LCY and currently operated by SAS into the airport from CPH. In the past, it was used by Augsburg Airways on the MUC route. Flybe has brought a Q400 into LCY for trials, but decided against it.
The problem for LM would be that, IIRC, only two Q400 can be accommodated at LCY at any one time because of the length of the fuselage. So a large scale operation is pretty much out of the question until the eastern extension of the apron will be finished.

As for the Fokker 100, to the best of my knowledge it has never been to LCY. Air Littoral operated the Fokker 70 for a while on behalf of Air France until it was replaced by Cityjet''s BAe 146 becuase of performance issues

[Edited 2007-03-08 12:58:52]
 
LifelinerOne
Posts: 1613
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 37):
As for the Fokker 100, to the best of my knowledge it has never been to LCY. Air Littoral operated the Fokker 70 for a while on behalf of Air France until it was replaced by Cityjet''s BAe 146 becuase of performance issues

According to this article from 2001 http://www.fokkerservices.com/Downlo...kkerServices/6-2104142/PAG_22.PDF, the Fokker 100 can make it into LCY. However, the plane is taking to much space for
easy operations.

Cheers!  wave 
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
vfw614
Posts: 3828
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:56 pm

As for the parking issue, the Fokker has less wingspan than the Q400 and the A318. It is, though, indeed 2.5m longer than the longest aircraft operating into LCY, the Q400. Not sure if this would indeed rule out parking one at the western end of the apron (I guess for LCY the bigger issue is wingspan as wingspan limits the number of stands).

Whatever, I have my doubts about the Fokker. 100. The question is if it possible to operate an aircraft on a day-to-day-basis. Even the Fokker 70 had problems and that was the reason why Air France pulled it off the route in favour of the BAe 146-200.
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:14 am

according to this article http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=8062
it is pretty much confirmed that there will be an option to configure E190s for service into LCY.
whether this makes sense economically is a whole different story.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 37):
only two Q400 can be accommodated at LCY at any one time because of the length of the fuselage.

that being said, this probably rules out the E190 as it is even longer than the Q400.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
jetset7e7
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:56 pm

RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 36):
isn't the Q400 already operating into LCY??

I'm sure SAS operate it into LCY

Mark
Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
 
vfw614
Posts: 3828
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 40):

I dont think so. Steep approach is one thing, field performance is another. Simply modifying an aircraft for steep approach is not enough. The Fokker 70 needed modifications, the Embraer 175 needs modifications that have nothing to do with steep appraoch. I think the reference in the article is a bit over-simplifying.
 
vfw614
Posts: 3828
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 40):
according to this article http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=8062
it is pretty much confirmed that there will be an option to configure E190s for service into LCY.

I looked up the performance data for the E190 - don#t see how it could make it into LCY:

Takeoff Field Length, ISA, SL, MTOW 6,913ft 2,107m
Takeoff Field Length, ISA, SL, TOW for 500nm 4,282ft 1,305m
Landing Field Length, SL, MLW 4,567ft 1,392m
 
Joost
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 43):
Takeoff Field Length, ISA, SL, TOW for 500nm 4,282ft 1,305m
Landing Field Length, SL, MLW 4,567ft 1,392m

Huh? This is long enough, isn't it? LCY is 4948ft (1508 m)
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: VLM Airlines New BAe 146-300 Operator

Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:39 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 40):
there will be an option to configure E190s for service into LCY

What exactly is involved in this modification? Stiffer brakes? Enhanced spoilers? Enhanced thrust settings?
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