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lamedianaranja
Topic Author
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:21 am

Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:08 pm

As I was strolling thru aviation sites I came upon this topic:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=666197

more of the same:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=645269

Myself being a KL employee I was horrified, I cannot believe this is so bad. Are these guys exaggerating, just jealous or have you had the same experience on other airlines?

When travelling non-rev I think a dress code is important, just as not showing off you're an employee, not drinking and not in anyway calling attention to yourself. This shouldn't bother anyone, right?

Yes, I'm happy with the jumpseat if there are no regular seats available and think it ridiculous that it annoys paying passengers.

What are your thoghts and experiences, as staff and/or paying passenger?

[Edited 2007-03-07 12:11:02]
 
N353SK
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 am

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:21 am

I've found that it really depends on the flight. if i'm in the middle seat on a full flight I wouldn't tell the people around me that I'm a non-rev, because whether or not it's true, they suddenly get to thinking that the seat I'm sitting in should be empty instead of holding a freeloading employee.

At the same time, if you leave your badges out for the entire flight passengers seem to respect you more, as they associate you with the airline.
 
Zone1
Posts: 895
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:52 am

Last year I was flying Express Jet out of IAH, and I was late to the flight because we were in a ground delay program from my DCA flight. I ran to the gate, and in my confirmed window aisle seat was a non-rev. The F/A said my "new" seat was an aisle seat next to an unaccompanied minor.
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:59 am

Well when I fly NON-REV with my brother , we just don´t say that we´re NON-REV passengers ...  Smile
 
JRadier
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:14 am

As a KL non-revver as well I don't recognise this at all. I dress nicely (tho not overdone, it would be too obvious if I would be travelling in a 3-piece suit) and try to blend in (not that hard). I did get a 'ATL survival kit' once, however that was handed to me when I got off the plane, not in plain sight.

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Thread starter):

Yes, I'm happy with the jumpseat if there are no regular seats available and think it ridiculous that it annoys paying passengers.

Agreed, and being 2 meters tall, I prefer the comfort jumpseat in the back of the 744's to a regular seat.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:16 am

When I was a Travel Agent I was always told by my employer to be very discreet as non-rev is a privilege not a right . I would never tell any pax as I could understand their annoyance at finding out I had paid considerably less for the same seat and service , but I would always quietly advise the cabin crew so that they were aware if they ended up with a preferred meal shortage or a "seating issue" ie couple not seated together or something like that then they could always shift me if necessary - I know this was particularly appreciated by QF crew on one sector who got me to swap seats with someone who was being 'bothered' by their neighbour - wasn't a particularly enjoyable flight for me - the guy was smelly and rude - but the crew made it clear that they appreciated my volunteering and tried to look after me and 'minimise the pain' - fortunately it was only a short hop - MEL-AKL rather than a LAX-AKL or SYD-JNB sector
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4323
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:25 am

As a non-rev I was always taught - be seen and not heard.

A good rule of thumb to dicreetly identify you as a non-rev is to ask the flight attendants, during the meal service, is "do you have enough?" This way the crew knows you are a non-rev and no awkward badge flashing either.

Just my  twocents 
 
lowrider
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:29 am

Rule #1 of non-reving: BLEND.

Rule #2 of non-reving: BLEND

Rule #3 of non-reving: Do not talk about non-reving in the presence of revenue customers.

That said, simply follow the dress code and be respectful and you will avoid 95% of the potential problems. By the way, blending means putting your SIDA badges and company badges away when traveling in "civilian camouflage". Nothing screams non-rev like a pair of khakis, collared shirt, and airline ID. I just keep mine in my pocket and only pull it out if an agent needs to see it. It will be obvious if a situation arises where you need to make your status as an employee known.

As for people in the extra flight attendant jumpseats, it is probably obvious that they work there and as long as the conduct themselves accordingly, it should not be a problem. The people in the jumpseats did not displace or inconvenience a revenue customer, so I don't see what the problem is.
 
carledwards
Posts: 215
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:43 am

I disagree with the majority of things people have wrote in this thread;

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
When I was a Travel Agent I was always told by my employer to be very discreet as non-rev is a privilege not a right

Non-revving should not be just a priviledge for airline staff, it should be a right, considering the low wages (most) airline staff get, it is a well deserved benefit. If not why not do a similar job for another non-transportation based company, and get paid loads more?

I am not even a member of airline staff, but I feel strongly about this, that unless airlines pay more, they cannot expect to give there loyal staff no benefits.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 6):
As a non-rev I was always taught - be seen and not heard

to be honest i think it is none of the other pax business whether you are a non-rev or not! OK granted do not go blurting it out, but it is silly having these things hush hush.

It would be great to get others thoughts on this, as it just occurred to me that the things people had said in this thread were way to biased towards the big wigs of the airline industry!
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 8):
but it is silly having these things hush hush.

I didn't say or imply hush hush. As a non-rev, you know not to bring attention to yourself or act in any way that reflects bad on the company (or airline you work for). That's all.

We as crew know who the non-revs are anyway. Be seen and not heard.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 8):
to be honest i think it is none of the other pax business whether you are a non-rev or not! OK granted do not go blurting it out, but it is silly having these things hush hush.

perhaps I phrased myself badly , yes , you are right that non-rev travel is part of the terms of employment in the industry , but so is the obligation to not rub it in the noses of the rev pax who , after all , are your customers . All non-rev travel has certain conditions of dress / behaviour attached to it and those who in the industry who benefit from this feature of their job have an obligation to

a: show respect to the people who are keeping them and their employer in business

and

b: not @#$%^ things up for their colleagues in the industry by making a #@& of themselves

( I might add that now I am no longer in the industry I am quite happy to point out all the downsides of non-rev travel to people I meet socially who innocently say "you worked in the travel industry , wow , you must have loved all that free travel" )
 
Junction
Posts: 559
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:53 am

I hate it when people find out I work for an airline. The last thing I want to do is talk work when I’m flying for personal reasons. Also, other passengers will usually start to discuss fares, or tell you about past experience with an expectation you can perhaps do something for them. Even if my seatmate flat out asks what I do, I try to steer the conversation in another direction. It's a personal choice, but the more discreet the better I think.
I especially hate it when a non-rev wears their badge and basically brags about working for the airline. It gets really dull hearing them quote misinformation to other passengers about areas of the company they don’t know anything about. I think this is mostly with newer employees.
 
COEI2007
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 6):
As a non-rev I was always taught - be seen and not heard.

A good rule of thumb to dicreetly identify you as a non-rev is to ask the flight attendants, during the meal service, is "do you have enough?" This way the crew knows you are a non-rev and no awkward badge flashing either.

Just my

I love those badge flashers!!! They wear the sign ''I work for the airline, and paid nothing for the flight''!!!! I hate that!!! I had one guy literally waving his badge at me, demanding a J seat, because ''last night he checked the loads and there was 2 seats, so he was entitled to them''. I told him, non-revving was a priviledge, and a priviledge that can be easily revoked, so he took the hint, and left the area until he was paged!!!

I've been lucky that when I non-rev, I'v know at least one of the FA's, so they fuss a little bit with me (nothing too obvious). If i'm onboard and a pax asks me if I work for CO, I normally give them a line or two about how I fly all the time, and thats how I know the crew!!!!
 
JRadier
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 9):


We as crew know who the non-revs are anyway. Be seen and not heard.

I recon it's on the loadsheet?
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1752
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting N353SK (Reply 1):
At the same time, if you leave your badges out for the entire flight passengers seem to respect you more, as they associate you with the airline.

Got a self image problem here? I noticed this behavior among some other aviation types I've worked around as well. Nobody actually cares, unless they are wondering who the "ID Geek" is. See the next post I quoted below.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 7):
Rule #1 of non-reving: BLEND.

Rule #2 of non-reving: BLEND

Rule #3 of non-reving: Do not talk about non-reving in the presence of revenue customers.



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 7):
By the way, blending means putting your SIDA badges and company badges away when traveling in "civilian camouflage".

Now there's some good non-rev advice. I used it for years, along with "please", "may I", and "thank you". It served me well.

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 8):
Non-revving should not be just a privilege for airline staff, it should be a right,

You are just wrong! BTW, I corrected your spelling of privilege in the quote.

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 8):
I am not even a member of airline staff,

And this being the case, you have no idea what you are talking about, or perhaps even a "right" to an opinion SIr.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 13):
I recon it's on the loadsheet?

Yes. We call it the prelim and/or final. But, yes.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:12 am

AA use to have a really dumb policy for J and F Non-revs...When going thru the premium cabin taking meal orders, they woudl skip the non-revs therby:

1. Calling attention to who nonrevs were
2. Making the premium cabin experience seem cheesy to rev pax

On a ORD-LHR flight I was passed over until all the revs had ordered. My rev seat mate said "I cant believe they skipped you" then he added United would ahve never done that. He didnt know I was a nonrev and probably got worried that he woudl one day get skipped over...now FAs take everyones meal order and lets the non-revs know if meals of their choice have run out.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 8):
Non-revving should not be just a priviledge for airline staff, it should be a right, considering the low wages (most) airline staff get, it is a well deserved

In the 1970s when airline pay was relatively high, most airlines didnt get free travel to all employees. At AA you had to have 3 years seniority and were given a limited number of trips.....it was after deregualtion that most big airlines began giving out free travel.
 
COEI2007
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
Quoting Carledwards (Reply 8):
Non-revving should not be just a priviledge for airline staff, it should be a right, considering the low wages (most) airline staff get, it is a well deserved

I dont know how many times I've had non-revs that have that attitude, but its far too many. Its a privilege and one thats easily taken away. I've had non-revs that have expected seats together on an oversold flight, and refused to be seated until they moved pax around to sit together! Yes, they may be getting paid low wages, and it may be well deserved, but they still have no right!!! Needless to say, they were denied travel!
 
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malaysia
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 18):
I've had non-revs that have expected seats together on an oversold flight, and refused to be seated until they moved pax around to sit together!

That happened to me and my ex-wife, I tried to explain to her that we are Non-Rev and do not have a right to be seated together and she felt it was intentional and I had control over assigning the seats all on purpose of trying to get a seat away from her, the flight was so packed and she felt I was avoiding her and wanted to sit with another girl or something. No wonder we got a divorce. It was quite annoying. (Hint she is not American) Big grin
 
ACFA
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:37 am

Once I flew non-rev, an FA working the flight recognized me and immediately handed me a giant bottle of water and a business class blanket (I was seated in Y)..... I appreciated her intents, but would have rather she not draw any attention to me in that way.
 
COEI2007
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 19):
That happened to me and my ex-wife, I tried to explain to her that we are Non-Rev and do not have a right to be seated together and she felt it was intentional and I had control over assigning the seats all on purpose of trying to get a seat away from her, the flight was so packed and she felt I was avoiding her and wanted to sit with another girl or something. No wonder we got a divorce. It was quite annoying. (Hint she is not American)

hahaha!!! I've used that excuse, especially when I just wanted to sit near the galley, coz it was an all female crew, and I fancied my chances!!!
 
ACFA
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 7):
The people in the jumpseats did not displace or inconvenience a revenue customer, so I don't see what the problem is.

Neither does a non-rev in a passenger seat.
 
ABQopsHP
Posts: 461
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:46 am

Before my parents got too old to non-rev, they were non-rev king and queen. Flight full? No problem, sneak a peek at the OAG and off to another gate they went. Lowrider has it right......blend blend blend. If I get 23E center seat on a DC9 with intermix problems, hell Im happy. The only thing I hated in the old days.....aka pre 2000, when meals were on board.....you know....those tasty dishes that were handed out......I hated asking if there was enough. Code for "Im a non-rev...serve everyone else and then come back to me". God I hated that, because then another pax would hear you and start asking questions.
 
JRadier
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 18):

I dont know how many times I've had non-revs that have that attitude, but its far too many. Its a privilege and one thats easily taken away.

well, I guess it's the way you see the 'right'. It could be a right, but within the limits of non-rev travel. I've grown up non-revving, and my dad made sure I understood what it was about. I love to fly and do so cheap, however I do not expect anything. It even made me that way while flying on revenue tickets, I still have to remind myself 'it's ok just to wear a t-shirt', 'it's ok to ask the crew for something' etc etc.
 
COEI2007
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 24):
well, I guess it's the way you see the 'right'. It could be a right, but within the limits of non-rev travel. I've grown up non-revving, and my dad made sure I understood what it was about. I love to fly and do so cheap, however I do not expect anything. It even made me that way while flying on revenue tickets, I still have to remind myself 'it's ok just to wear a t-shirt', 'it's ok to ask the crew for something' etc etc.

I'm more than happy to help any non-rev get to where they want to go. I'll re-list them, check loads etc, because I know what its like,(and spent many hours wandering from gate to gate in EWR trying to get to a city close to DUB!), but its when they get it into their heads that they have as much right as Mr X or Ms Y who's paid for their ticket to be on that flight. When I see this, I just shut off, and let them know its a priviledge. If they angry or nasty, they can come back the next day, or fly from another station!!!

[Edited 2007-03-07 22:15:39]
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 16):
AA use to have a really dumb policy for J and F Non-revs...When going thru the premium cabin taking meal orders, they woudl skip the non-revs therby:

When did they have this policy? When I went through AA initial training in 2001 we were specifically told NOT to do this. We were to take preferences in order. Front to back even flight number back to front odd (or some such thing). If we ran out of choices for a revenue pax we could always make a switch with a non-rev.

You mentioned UAL. When I worked for a United express carrier everytime I non-reved on UAL they would skip around which led me to belive it was a United policy.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:36 am

This was from 1995 onward till 1999 I'd say
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 19):
That happened to me and my ex-wife, I tried to explain to her that we are Non-Rev and do not have a right to be seated together and she felt it was intentional and I had control over assigning the seats all on purpose of trying to get a seat away from her, the flight was so packed and she felt I was avoiding her and wanted to sit with another girl or something. No wonder we got a divorce. It was quite annoying. (Hint she is not American)

That actually sounds like typical American woman behavior
 
JRadier
Posts: 3968
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 25):
I'm more than happy to help any non-rev get to where they want to go. I'll re-list them, check loads etc, because I know what its like,(and spent many hours wandering from gate to gate in EWR trying to get to a city close to DUB!), but its when they get it into their heads that they have as much right as Mr X or Ms Y who's paid for their ticket to be on that flight. When I see this, I just shut off, and let them know its a priviledge. If they angry or nasty, they can come back the next day, or fly from another station!!!

It's a bit of give and take I guess. I make sure I don't bother a gate-agent when he/she is busy etc etc etc and it works the same way around. Often check-in/gate agents check loads without asking, getting the best seat available etc. It just works two ways, and when/if I am in a position to help non-revvers in the future I'm sure I will.

Some people just forget the 'less is more' unfortunately, and I really hate it (as a non-rev pax) when I see other non-revvers making demands...
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4323
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 29):
I really hate it (as a non-rev pax) when I see other non-revvers making demands...

It is just as bad when you are working crew and it gets out of hand. I have had to call people on a few things once or twice because it got out of hand.

I'd rather deal with upset or irate customers.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:50 am

We lost jump-seat at FX because of dumb ass employees.

 no 
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4323
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:02 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 31):
We lost jump-seat at FX because of dumb ass employees.

It only takes one. I figure they should lose their benefit, not the whole group. A**wipes.
 
futuresdpdcop
Posts: 1256
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:26 am

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 31):
We lost jump-seat at FX because of dumb ass employees.

Isn't that because your non-rev brought a plane down, injured a pilot, co-pilot and flight engineer to the point they could no longer fly commercially?
 
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fxramper
Posts: 5839
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:34 am

Quoting FutureSDPDcop (Reply 33):
Isn't that because your non-rev brought a plane down, injured a pilot, co-pilot and flight engineer to the point they could no longer fly commercially?

Negative.

Flight #647, I'm guessing the one your thinking about. One of the five jump-seating pilots activated a emergency slide improperly. Minor injuries to the co-pilot and one of the j/s pilots.

The above flight played no role in the suspension of jump-seat at FX.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 34):
Flight #647, I'm guessing the one your thinking about. One of the five jump-seating pilots activated a emergency slide improperly. Minor injuries to the co-pilot and one of the j/s pilots.

I think he's referring to the Calloway guy who was about to be fired and fought the crew of a MEM-OAK DC-10 overhead LIT with a hammer and speargun.

To be honest, I've always wondered if that was the impetus for change myself, or whether it was related to post-9/11 CASS stuff...
.

[Edited 2007-03-08 00:45:51]
 
copter808
Posts: 1385
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 19):
That happened to me and my ex-wife, I tried to explain to her that we are Non-Rev and do not have a right to be seated together and she felt it was intentional and I had control over assigning the seats all on purpose of trying to get a seat away from her, the flight was so packed and she felt I was avoiding her and wanted to sit with another girl or something. No wonder we got a divorce. It was quite annoying. (Hint she is not American) Big grin

Gee, I think I've dated her! I'll bet she was Asian! A few of them I've dated seem inclined to get very jealous for no apparent reason.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:46 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 35):
I think he's referring to the Calloway guy who was about to be fired and fought the crew of a MEM-OAK DC-10 overhead LIT with a hammer and speargun.

No, he was referring to #647, in 2003. The flight you are referring to was #705. Flight #705 happened back in 1994. We had jumpseat after this a decade later.
 
gh123
Posts: 645
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:57 am

I flew to Toronto from ORD last year in first class. I was at the gate and I noticed this woman (in civilian clothes) come up to the gate and then disappear into the ladies toilets.

I boarded the plane, sat in my seat and lo and behold, she was sitting next to me in 1B, dressed in her United cabin crew uniform. She then once again, disappeared into the toilet on the plane, only to reappear wearing her civilian clothes again. She simply wore her United uniform only to board the aircraft (or for only about 7/8 minutes.)

Why would she have done this?! Seemed a bit silly to me.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting FA" class=quote target=_blank>ACFA (Reply 20):
Once I flew non-rev, an FA working the flight recognized me and immediately handed me a giant bottle of water and a business class blanket (I was seated in Y)..... I appreciated her intents, but would have rather she not draw any attention to me in that way.

I had something similar happen, although I was revenue. My girlfriend is an FA for DL, and I was on a flight where one of her close friends was one of the FAs, and she recognized me and brought me an extra of one of the desserts they were serving up in first class (I was in Y). I thought it was kind of unfair to the passengers around me.
 
bphendri
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:18 am

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:29 am

Quoting Copter808 (Reply 36):
Gee, I think I've dated her! I'll bet she was Asian! A few of them I've dated seem inclined to get very jealous for no apparent reason.

LOL.. Asian or not, too many women get insanely jelouse WAY to easily.

I race Hobie Cat's and my ex wouldn't sail with me, so I would have to get other crew for the races. Usually with another woman (Hard to find an guy my age who wouldn't put me well over minimum weight). Of course if I did this it was because I was cheating on her Big grin

Anyways, on topic, I completely agree that Non-Rev passengers should not draw undue attention to themselves, or expect special favors because they are employee's. The company is there to serve their customers, plain and simple, and nothing should interfere with them serving their customers.

Though it is funny, when I worked at Sea World, we got free admission to the park. Even without wearing my uniform shirt, when I would go into the park, I still had people come up to me and ask me directions etc. (I often wondered if I had Sea World Employee stamped on my forehead.)
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 7):
Rule #3 of non-reving: Do not talk about non-reving in the presence of revenue customers.

Yeah, while I know that airline employees enjoy the benefits of "free" travel, nothing irritates me more than having to wait in line behind several non-revs each having a thourough (and fairly loud) discussion with the agent about their chances for getting on, their families, the most recent management issue, and what they each had for lunch. At LAX I was once stuck in the mittle of a virtual shouting match betwen (as far as I could tell) 2 agents working and 2 non-revenue passengers practically screaming at each other about how they should be able to get on for free but the agents couldn't gaurntee it but they could buy an ID90 at $x and...

The entire time while a line of restless passengers was looking on, growing restless, and growing longer.

On the other hand, I've been behind several non-revs in line (primarially CO) and they've either cut their business with the gate agent short, or swapped places with me in line so that they went after all of the revs... I thought this was nice, respect the paying customer and all that jazz

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 9):
We as crew know who the non-revs are anyway. Be seen and not heard.

Then why is it that virtually every time I've flown CO mainline recently I get a very discreet "So, uh, are you one of us?" or "You look familiar, do you, um, you know, work for the airline?" at some point during the flight? (Really, in all honesty I kind of enjoy it)

Lincoln
[Next scheduled flight CO2991 RIC-CLE on 09MAR]
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:14 am

Quoting Gh123 (Reply 38):

Why would she have done this?! Seemed a bit silly to me.

AFAIK, some airlines allow flight attendants to ride in spare cabin jump seats. Usually they have to be in uniform for this. She was probably worried she wouldn't be able to get a regular seat and so wore her uniform so she could jump seat if she had to. Since a seat opened up for her, she didn't have to wear her uniform anymore.
 
baw716
Posts: 1463
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:19 am

OK...this subject is one in which I have some really STRONG opinions.

Let's take the second part first, since this is the easier of the two subjects to address:

There should be NO non-rev passengers sitting in crew jump seats, unless there is a pilot who is flying in the cockpit jump seat, with the approval of the captain (which is standard industry practice). However, flight attendant jump seats are for flight attendants who are working the flight. I know there are airlines that do it (including one I worked for...not United), but from our station, there were no non-revenue passengers boarded that did not have a passenger seat. We did not accept jump seat riders as we had four pilots on board our aircraft and there was no room for a non-working crew member or OA airline pilot. I believe this to be a safety issue, since F/As need immediate access to those seats in cases of sudden and unforseen turbulence. If a jump seat is occupied by a non-rev passenger, in my opinion it jeopardizes the safety of the cabin crew.

Now the second issue:
Having been the recipient of some favors from cabin crew (airline policy required coach travel, even for managers); when I traveled, I often flew Business as once the Captain discovered I was on board, he invited me upfront (provided there was a meal and there was sufficient space that I would not inconvenience a revenue passenger).

This kind of stuff happens and frankly, I have no problem with it, so long as it a) does not interfere with the service provided to the paying passengers and b) the non rev passenger behaves in a manner that reflects positively on the airline.

As a non-revenue passenger, here is my mantra (aka Dave's rules...which applied to my employees traveling on any airline as a non-rev on vacation OR company business): These were company policy with a few add ons from me...

a) Under no circumstances was anyone to ASK for a favor. If the Captain or the Chief Purser invited the employee upfront after the doors are closed and 1) there are sufficient meals to take care of the paying passengers first and 2) my employee was dressed appropriately for J class and 3) they did not make themselves aware they were airline employees to other passengers, e.g. their movement from Y to J was not obvious and they kept their mouth shut about what they did. If they were traveling on business, different rules applied (see below).

b) For business travel, business attire. For vacation travel, business casual attire; although I strongly encouraged jackets and ties, since one never knows what can happen.

c) When traveling, they are to be "invisible". In other words, they do not interfere with the duties of the cabin crew...up to and including long chatty conversations in the galley.

d) On our flight, we did not board a non-rev unless we could accommodate them with a meal (our flights were up to 12 hours long).

e) When traveling on business, they were to introduce themselves to the Chief Purser and identify themselves as an employee traveling on business...and offer assistance to the crew in the event they needed it. On vacation, I encouraged them to do this, but did not require it. On two occasions, the crew required my assistance as a management employee to resolve specific problems with passengers onboard. Whenever I intervened, I wrote a report, submitted it to my boss and the station manager, initialed by the Chief Purser (as a witness). Only one time was there any question about my actions and this came in the form of a thank you letter from the Chief Pilot cc:d to my boss and VP North America.

f) If I ever received a complaint from anyone, anywhere about any of my people's behavior, there would be consequences up to and including termination on the spot. (I had a problem with one of my employees on one occasion. I won't tell what happened, but suffice to say the incident caused the station manager a lot of grief and it cost this person non-rev travel privileges for a year).

Non-revenue travel is a privilege, not a right. Most airline employees get this. Some do not. There have been times when cabin crew have gone over and above for me and I have been very appreciative; however, I have also pulled people aside and gently reminded them that I was concerned that the paying passengers might become aware of my presence...that was usually all it took to clear up a problem (as a management employee, I did have some degree of say).

What I do not and will not countenance is poor behavior on the part of a non-revenue passenger and/or his or her family. Worse is the case of buddy passes, where friends of employees travel as non-revs and are not fully informed of their responsibilities as a non-rev passenger. I've witnessed a couple of UA employees lose their jobs because reports of bad behavior on the part of a buddy pass rider made it to the Chairman's office...very sad, but what can I say???

Revenue passengers understand that airline employees enjoy a perk of free and or dramatically reduced rate travel. Most do not mind, unless they are inconvenienced as a result of it; especially J or F passengers. I've heard some horror stories about non-rev's on a US carrier on long haul flights in F class that just made me want to vomit. We in sales work so bloody hard to get people on the damn plane to only have some bonehead who is sitting in a premium class, inappropriately dressed, drunk gets noisy and makes the trip miserable for those who paid the big bucks to sit there...and ultimately, we lose those passengers because we can't control our employees. Hence, Dave's rules. When I am traveling on business, and someone asks me what I do, I tell them, but in a way that makes them feel that they are truly the important passenger, not the other way around. When I am on vacation, I do not discuss it. The reason for going both ways on this is that if a customer has a problem or a complaint... and I am in a position to fix it, I will...quietly. Usually, it keeps the passengers flying on our airline and in once case, it won our airline an account.

We as airline employees have a responsibility, ALL OF US, to assure that our revenue passengers are well cared for. It is not difficult; it just requires a little common sense. Ask yourself the question, how would you feel if you paid $6000 for your ticket and someone who was an employee behaved badly? Usually, in most cases, people get the idea. However, for those that don't, I have no patience or tolerance. I either have them flogged or fired. If they can't get this one detail right, they have no business working for the carrier.

I do apologize if my post is a tad harsh; however, I really do have very strong feelings about this subject and I know it is a problem from time to time. Talking about it and getting it out on the table is a good thing; it will remind us that we have a responsibility to fulfill and maybe next time, the person who might have bent the rules before will do the right thing. We can only hope.

baw716
 
futuresdpdcop
Posts: 1256
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 35):
think he's referring to the Calloway guy who was about to be fired and fought the crew of a MEM-OAK DC-10 overhead LIT with a hammer and speargun.

Yep, that's the one I was talking about. Sorry, didn't know when FedEx stopped their non-rev policy. I just recalled the above incident that OPNLguy pointed out.
 
Halcyon
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RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:51 am

Well, when I fly non-rev, I dress professionally and am as courteous as possible. Most people just think that I'm another pax, unless they see me get moved to First, and then I'm sure that they realize what is up.  Wink

On occasion, the FAs have asked me if I'd like to split a meal with them (I swear it's because I'm so dang skinny), and I always am embarrassed. When flying non-rev, I don't want to seem special, so I always decline, and make sure that they realize I'm not doing it just because I'm being rude.

Lucas  Smile
 
QantasA380
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:22 pm

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:25 pm

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 18):
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
Quoting Carledwards (Reply 8):
Non-revving should not be just a priviledge for airline staff, it should be a right, considering the low wages (most) airline staff get, it is a well deserved

I dont know how many times I've had non-revs that have that attitude, but its far too many. Its a privilege and one thats easily taken away. I've had non-revs that have expected seats together on an oversold flight, and refused to be seated until they moved pax around to sit together! Yes, they may be getting paid low wages, and it may be well deserved, but they still have no right!!! Needless to say, they were denied travel!

Agreed. How is it not a privilege, and how is it a right?? Paying passengers have the right to fly comfortably on whichever flights they choose without having to subsidise the staff of the airline for their holidays, after all that's why we all pay airfares isn't it?? The only thing any employee has a 'right' to get from their employee is their salary/wage, anything beyond that is a privilege/bonus. An airline giving its people free or heavily discounted flights is no more a right than my employer giving senior managers a car.

The one time that I've flown non-rev (which was for an interview with the airline) I figured the last thing the other 35 pax on each flight wanted to hear was that they'd paid around $200 minimum for 1.25hrs flying and that I was sitting there at Qantas' (and therfore their's) expense.
 
ADXMatt
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:07 pm

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:26 pm

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 43):
If a jump seat is occupied by a non-rev passenger, in my opinion it jeopardizes the safety of the cabin crew.

If there are 8 F/A jumpseats and say only 6 are being used by "working" F/A and all pax seats are filled with revenue passengers I don't see why an off duty/qualified person should not be able to use that seat. It's not like they're making the working f/a stand during t/o and landing. The working crew still have their seats.

With the airlines flying with record load factors trying to get a non rev seat is harder by the day. With my position being able to use the flight deck jumpseat has gotten me out more then once.

An off duty F/A should be able to use an empty f/a jump seat. If anything having an additional qualified crew member on board can only improve safety. A jumpseat rider is expected to help the working crew in any abnormal situation if requested.

Just my 2c
 
ACFA
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:41 pm

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:58 pm

Quoting Gh123 (Reply 38):
I flew to Toronto from ORD last year in first class. I was at the gate and I noticed this woman (in civilian clothes) come up to the gate and then disappear into the ladies toilets.

I boarded the plane, sat in my seat and lo and behold, she was sitting next to me in 1B, dressed in her United cabin crew uniform. She then once again, disappeared into the toilet on the plane, only to reappear wearing her civilian clothes again. She simply wore her United uniform only to board the aircraft (or for only about 7/8 minutes.)

Why would she have done this?! Seemed a bit silly to me.

Maybe her clothes didnt adhere to the dress code and she HAD to wear a uniform to get onboard.

Once I had to deadhead from HKG, immigration tends to ask too many questions if we tell them we're deadheading but dressed in civvies, so we wear a uniform, then we change after we get onboard so we dont get confused with working crew.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 20798
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Correct Non-rev Behaviour?

Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:13 pm

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 8):
Non-revving should not be just a priviledge for airline staff, it should be a right, considering the low wages (most) airline staff get, it is a well deserved benefit. If not why not do a similar job for another non-transportation based company, and get paid loads more?

A right? That's hilarious. Your reasoning isn't true for any job.

People have a choice of jobs. The employer decides what salary and perks to give. If someone doesn't like it, they should feel free to get another job. There is no shortage of volunteers to take up the slack.

Perks are not a right. For that matter, neither are salaries.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 45):
Most people just think that I'm another pax, unless they see me get moved to First, and then I'm sure that they realize what is up.

I would more likely think you had high status with the airline. I get upgraded quite frequently because of this, even after boarding.

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