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SPREE34
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:55 am

Quoting Korg747 (Reply 17):
doesn't US fly 733s? wouldn't that solve the commonality issue? I mean A 733 pilot can fly a 739ER with a min training. which should mean that US should have simulators and other things..right?

Never happen. ALPA wouldn't go for it.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
One also has to consider pilot training here, as the 739ER has more in common with the 757 than does the A321, and moving pilots to the 739ER from the 757 also means they can cycle around with the 737 classics, and those pilots can cycle into the 739ER fleet.

Never happen. ALPA wouldn't go for it.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
blsbls99
Posts: 341
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 44):
Quoting Blsbls99 (Reply 20):
I've heard that the 757s are weight restricted certain days flying out to Hawaii

I really doubt that.

I've heard that from an agent at another airline at PHX, who say that US Airways continually are checking with his airline for seats out of LAX, and he specifically said that it is because of weight issues.
Please explain why you "really doubt" what I've heard???
319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 44):
I really doubt that.

Several flights during the first few months to Hawai'i did indeed have times when passengers were denied boarding due to weight and balance issues.

Many of these flights ended up with perm blocked seats during the summer season last year after ops realized they were having continuing issues.


This will happen again this summer, but this time they won't sell all the seats and deny boarding to passengers or have to rebook or hand out vouchers.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
SansVGs
Posts: 188
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:27 am

SPREE34,

All 737's share a common "type-rating." So in theory I pilot can hop out of a 733 and into a 900ER. That said, there are quite a bit of differences. US Airways (East) 73's are steam gauges--not sure about America West's. There is a big learning curve going from an all "Hard-Ball" Flight Deck to a real "box" and full EFIS. I would say at least two to three weeks of training.

[Edited 2007-03-08 02:32:34]
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26579
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:29 am

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 50):
Never happen. ALPA wouldn't go for it.

What are you talking about? ALPA went for 757 and 767 pilots to fly the same types for the same pay at United, ALPA went for 757 and 767 to fly the 757 and 767 at Continental.

Quoting Blsbls99 (Reply 51):
Please explain why you "really doubt" what I've heard???

I have my doubts because of the aircraft's ability to perform. Still, I am sure they have restrictions at times, as plenty of flights do.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
mu2
Topic Author
Posts: 176
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 41):
I have a weird question. I wonder if pay for the -900 will be close to 757 domestic pay? Most airlines seat 189 in 2-class on 757s. the 2-class seating on 73-900 is about the same.

US is go to a narrow body wide body pay scale. So 737, A319, A320, A321, and 757s will be the same pay scale.
 
N1120A
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:55 am

Quoting SansVGs (Reply 53):
US Airways (East) 73's are steam gauges--not sure about America West's.

They are as well.

Quoting SansVGs (Reply 53):
There is a big learning curve going from an all "Hard-Ball" Flight Deck to a real "box" and full EFIS.

Except of course that the 737NG flightdeck can be programmed to mimic a steam gauge flight deck

Quoting Mu2 (Reply 55):
US is go to a narrow body wide body pay scale

Which doesn't make sense as it creates commonality issues between the 757 and 767 which should be flown by the same group of pilots.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:02 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 56):
Except of course that the 737NG flightdeck can be programmed to mimic a steam gauge flight deck

Why program 500K of avionics to mimic 40 year old technology  Smile The differences training is all that is needed and when the "Classics" are sitting at Marana in 5 years it won't be an issue.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
at777
Posts: 100
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:02 am

I have a couple of questions on this.

1: When would the 737-900ER's enter service for US if that's what US picks?

2: If US wants to replace the 757's sooner than later, why is US starting to put the winglets on their 757's?


Just seems to me that if they are wanting to replace their 757 fleet, it's kind of a waste to put the winglets on.
Just my opions so please don't ruff me up to much!

Ashley from CLT
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting AT777 (Reply 58):
Just seems to me that if they are wanting to replace their 757 fleet, it's kind of a waste to put the winglets on.
Just my opions so please don't ruff me up to much

I think at the top of the thread the post starts out saying they are looking to replace 757's domestically so they can operate them on international routes.

the 757's will go international and the winglets really help out on long flights.

Hope this helps
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
Valcory
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:56 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:05 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 44):
It shares cockpit commonality, but that is about where the similarities end.

What about the APU? They both have fly by wire spoilers,they both have 3 PCA for the rudder 3 PCA per elevator,3 Hydraulics system,PSEU, MLG (each gear has four wheels and brakes on a dual axle truck) i am sure some of the boxes in the E&E are the same, PACKS set up the same etc etc there are more but i don't feel like writing a book.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1604
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:11 am

Quoting SansVGs (Reply 53):
I would say at least two to three weeks of training.

Actually, surprisingly, some differences courses for transitioning from 737 Classic to 737 NG take less than one week.
Good goes around!
 
SansVGs
Posts: 188
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:11 am

N1120A,

You are correct the PFD's and MFD's can be programmed to emulate steam gauges. But that is like the difference between Microsoft Flight Simulator and the "Real Thing." Smile

WN uses this to try to get commonality-ish.

There is another airline who does the "steam on glass" thing. Do you know who it is? Thanks.
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
 
at777
Posts: 100
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:13 am

I can see where that would help.
Of those 43 or so 757's, how many are going to go over seas or to Hawaii.
Just trying to see how many are going to get the winglets.

Thanks Itsnotfinals for your answers.
 
whappeh
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:47 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:23 am

Quoting AT777 (Reply 63):
Just trying to see how many are going to get the winglets.

I'm 99% sure they ordered 7 sets.
-Travel now, journey infinitely.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26579
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting SansVGs (Reply 62):
There is another airline who does the "steam on glass" thing. Do you know who it is?

I would guess that EasyJet does it, as well as other operators who run both types.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
SansVGs
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:21 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:47 am

1120A,

I think it might be Shenzhen? Checking...
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
 
SansVGs
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:21 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:07 pm

N1120A,


It's GOL!
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
 
eraugrad02
Posts: 720
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:33 pm

People we also must remember one other thing. US sent Boeing and Airbus requests to replace their ageing 737-300/400's. My guess would be whome ever gets that contract would probably recieve this one as well. Just think if US decides to order 737-700/800's to replace the classics, then Boeing will for sure give them a big pkg deal to include the -900er also. Same for airbus if the get the order to replace the classics. What do you guyz/girls think about this???
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
EA772LR
Posts: 1285
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:39 pm

"First, the V2500 would have never gne on the 737NG because Boeing signed an exclusivity contract with CFM for the CFM56. Second, the 737NG uses a more advanced version of the CFM56 than the A320 Family does, which incorporates some similar technology to the V2500 allowing lower fuel burn on the CFM56-7 series as well as having lower engine weight. "

True, I forgot about boeing's exclusive contract with GE/Snecma. As much as I'd love to see a 739ER in US colors, I am not completely sure that it makes more sense to go with the boeing. Maybe it makes more sense to stick with the A321, since they already fly a good size fleet of 321's and the 320 series.

One question: How come the 321 is such a dog in hot weather when it has a MTOW of 205,000lbs w/ a total of 66,000lbs of thrust. If I'm doing my math correct, that's a damn good thrust to weight. I realize that its not just the power, but also the lift of the wing(and the 321 certainly doesn't have a big wing) but could someone please explain the "doggish" problem???
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5050
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:31 pm

The answer is simple. Boeing needs to reopen the 757 line.

Look at the demand across the board...everyone wants the damn things. Why did Boeing close the line in the first place?
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 69):
One question: How come the 321 is such a dog in hot weather when it has a MTOW of 205,000lbs w/ a total of 66,000lbs of thrust.

See, I'm not real sure it actually is. I think that is imagined by this forum.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 70):
Why did Boeing close the line in the first place?

Heh, cause nobody wanted it. Last ditch efforts to get orders failed.

The reality is, people want the ones they HAVE plus, in some cases like US, a few new ones. They don't want them for what they've been using them for.

NS
 
LASoctoberB6
Posts: 1936
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:23 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:41 pm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 37):
The A321 is a stretched A320

if the A321 has the same engines as the A320, but is larger, wouldnt it make sense for Airbus to go after a "larger" engine?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 44):
Because Las Vegas averages 104 degrees in July and is over 2000 feet above sea level

dont forget i live in Las Vegas...i know how hot it gets here and the airport's elevation is like 2181....  Smile
[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:43 pm

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 72):
if the A321 has the same engines as the A320, but is larger, wouldnt it make sense for Airbus to go after a "larger" engine?

No, because the benefits of family is very important.

The A321 has a larger engine, a 33,000 pound variant which is really not all that far off from the 757's. It is, however, mechanically the same as the other -5Bs for the rest of the family.

Family is good times.

NS
 
N1120A
Posts: 26579
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting SansVGs (Reply 67):
It's GOL!

I am sure more than just GOL use it.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 69):
As much as I'd love to see a 739ER in US colors, I am not completely sure that it makes more sense to go with the boeing

It makes very little sense at all.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 70):
Look at the demand across the board...everyone wants the damn things. Why did Boeing close the line in the first place?

They closed it because, unfortunately, nobody wanted the damn things.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 70):
The answer is simple. Boeing needs to reopen the 757 line

That would be an extremely expensive undertaking

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 71):
See, I'm not real sure it actually is. I think that is imagined by this forum.

Even your buddy AirbusDriver owned up to that one.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 73):
The A321 has a larger engine, a 33,000 pound variant which is really not all that far off from the 757's

"Only" 10,000 pounds per side  Wink
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
eskimo1
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:23 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:09 pm

All these posts about the 757 makes me wonder what would have happened if the line could have stuck around a little longer....now that the airlines have realized the value and capability of the aircraft.  banghead 
 
domokun
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:46 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:43 pm

Quoting Eskimo1 (Reply 75):
All these posts about the 757 makes me wonder what would have happened if the line could have stuck around a little longer....now that the airlines have realized the value and capability of the aircraft.

Who knows? Perhaps Boeing would not be in its (better) position now if things had remained the same? Nobody will ever know; however, it would be hard to think they made the decision arbitrarily.

In any case, it sounds like US is just shopping to get the best deal out of Airbus. After all, if you let someone know they are your only supplier, you are usually asking for higher prices, etc... I would suspect that playing the two off each other is a good way to get lower pricing. Either way, it is very likely US would end up with the best possible deal.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:20 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 70):
The answer is simple. Boeing needs to reopen the 757 line.

Look at the demand across the board...everyone wants the damn things. Why did Boeing close the line in the first place?

The 737RS is almost sure to replace the 757-200 in its largest version, if not the 757-300. The SMALLEST is likely to be the size of a 737-800 unless Boeing also makes a 5 abreast DC-9 replacement as part of the program.

Regardless the 737RS in its largest versions will be insanely better than the 757 at everything but possibly hot/high takeoffs. Given that its "almost here" in the time frames airlines and aircraft manufacturers deal with means that even if boeing had a spare plant, and all the tooling ready to go the 757 line would not be restarted. As it is, Boeing is running all the way to the bank with the 737's rolling down the former 757 line.


As far as the possible order for 739ER's... well anything is possible, and US owes Airbus nothing as it sits. While the order is Airbus's to lose, US is smart to ask right now... The reason being Boeing is likely more willing to sling 50 or so 737 dirt cheap if the slots US needs is right for Boeing. Why? The 737RS and 737 will be built along side each other for a while, and Boeing should be keen to start grabbing A320 operators attention right about now with talk of getting penciled in early for the 737RS as a customer.

In the end US either gets really cheap 737's, really cheap A320's or they get nothing right now and get early 737RS slots.
 
FA4B6
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:53 pm

Is the 737-700ER an option? With a range of up to 5500nm, it might make sense from a range perspective.
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:42 pm

This is NOT the first time that rumors have circulated concerning US/HP and the 739 and the 739ER; many are questioning why US/HP would go with the 739ER when it already flies a large A32X fleet including the A321 which is similiar in size and capablilites to the 739ER.....stating that it does not make a lot of sense. If US/HP does select the 739ER, its simply going to be one of those cases that dont make sense from a purely fleet planning point of view....US/HP will make the choice for other reasons that go beyond the basic issue of fleet commonality.

Consider the following:

1. The 739ER may be part of a larger order that includes other Boeing types (think 787)?

2. Boeings terms for the 739ER (meaning price and delivery position) may be superior to the terms offered by Airbus. If US/HP signs up for 30 or more 739ERs, then some of the commonality issues begin to diminish in importance from a cost and operational point of view.

3. Somewhere above its metnioned that some of the HP/US 752s are headed for Fedex...Boeing is probably working with Fedex on the 757 acquisition project (Boeing does get involved "behind the scenes" in situations such as these....it is probably working with Fedex to locate, acquire and evaluate 757s that are on the market and/or could come to market) and just maybe the HP/US 739ER deal is somehow connected and part of a bigger plan that would move used 757s to Fedex.

4. US and HP, individually and post-merger, have had issues operating the A321 into LAS and PHX during the hot summer months when operrations are a challenge....a.net members who are more qualified on tech matters discussed these issues above. HP considered and rejected the A321 as a potential 752 replacement and this was before HP was flying to Hawaii and/or US/HP was sending 757s from PHL to Europe......the A321 had issues on PHX/LAS-US East Coast services frequently enough that the A321 was not an option for these routes. Will the 739ER do better? I dont know, but maybe Boeing has convinced HP/US that it can handle the hot and high situation better......time will tell.

Long story short.......not everything has to make perfect sense, its entirely possible that we could see 739ERs in new US colors in the future. There are many 733/734s still in service, some 752s will be leaving the US fleet and US/HP could look to Boeing for replacement solutions.
 
WINGS
Posts: 2315
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:50 pm

I believe that US still has 15 x A321's on order. I'm wondering if this will influence the upcoming order.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
LifelinerOne
Posts: 1616
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:21 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 52):
Several flights during the first few months to Hawai'i did indeed have times when passengers were denied boarding due to weight and balance issues.

Yeah, but it could also mean that there is precious cargo on board. Cargo has more revenue, so it makes sense to keep the cargo, but ditch the passengers. It could mean that the plane is in fact at it's maximum operating weight, but loaded different (so less passengers, more cargo). So maybe the plane isn't restricted, but used differently for operational (read $$) issues.

Cheers!  wave 
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:57 pm

My guess is they want to remove all the 757's from the domestic fleet (as stated). Putting them on Trans-Atlantic and Hawaii routes. It doesn't make sense to put a 321 or 739 on the Hawaii routes...because they will have issues getting there. More than likely they want to dump the old HP 757's because they are just that, OLD (and tired). They will likely take some of the original US 757's which are younger and ETOPS certify them...move several to be based in PHX and LAS to operate the Hawaii routes.

My other guess is that they would move some of the 767's over to PHX and LAS to operate the Hawaii routes....only once they get more widebodies or certify more 757's to fly across the pond. The only bad thing is the 767 has a long range that is currently being utilized for the longer, thin European markets. But they would make perfect sense to Hawaii.

Our new 321 configuration will hold about 183 passengers. They did state we might have issues with range and that some flights would have to be perm-blocked if they operate on long flights or make tech stops.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
TropicBird
Posts: 432
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:13 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 81):
Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 52):
Several flights during the first few months to Hawai'i did indeed have times when passengers were denied boarding due to weight and balance issues.

This problem was corrected by increasing the MTOW of the aircraft (buying the paperwork certification from Boeing).
 
toltommy
Posts: 2798
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 22):

One goal of the NG program was to maintain commonality where possible. From a pilot's persepctive, that means minimal training (I believe you have a common type rating).



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23):
Well, they are the same type rating. Southwest pilots fly both the 73G and the classics.

As they say, you learn something new every day. Thanks!
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333 / 707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753
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flyorski
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting AT777 (Reply 58):
: If US wants to replace the 757's sooner than later, why is US starting to put the winglets on their 757's?

They dont want to replace the 757s, they want to fly them across the Atlantic, and to Hawaii, but they need something to fly the domestic routes the 757s currently serve.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
EA772LR
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 78):
Is the 737-700ER an option? With a range of up to 5500nm, it might make sense from a range perspective.


Yah but if they were going to go with the 737-700ER, (which would be awesome to see in US new colors) why not just order the equivalent model A319LR since they've already got a fleet of A319's?

Quoting AT777 (Reply 58):
: If US wants to replace the 757's sooner than later, why is US starting to put the winglets on their 757's?

Like Flyorski said, I don't think they want to necessarily get rid of the 757's, except on their domestic routes, where the range is not warranted. Thats where the 739ER or A321 would be more efficient.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
Sinlock
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:55 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:04 am

The company has stated that the aircraft ordered will replace 757s on domestic flights. I don't know of any airline in the US that treats (from an operations stand point) Hawaii flights as Domestic flight. But lest pretend for a second so we can see the next problem.

No one has brought up the point that whatever aircraft is bought (A321 or -900ER) is going to take a major performance hit on a HNL/OGG flight due to the special flight and fuel reserve requirements of ETOPS aircraft. Payload will also be lost due to the need to install overwater equipment like HF radios, Life vests. and Life Rafts that weigh between 75-100lbs each.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting Sinlock (Reply 87):
No one has brought up the point that whatever aircraft is bought (A321 or -900ER) is going to take a major performance hit on a HNL/OGG flight due to the special flight and fuel reserve requirements of ETOPS aircraft. Payload will also be lost due to the need to install overwater equipment like HF radios, Life vests. and Life Rafts that weigh between 75-100lbs each.

Along those same lines, acquiring 739/321 equipment and replacing existing 757 flying may be two different things. In other words, they could acquire these for a capacity boost in some markets, and move other existing equipment (A319 or 762 for example) to the Hawaii routes. It doesn't necessarily mean that each new 739 or A321 will directly replace the 757 on the same routes always.

Of course, that might not be what they are planning, but it is an option.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Clipper136
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:07 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:10 am

Please Remember People.......

The Range, Thrust Ratings, and Payload capabilities that you see on an airline or manufacturers website are all -OPTIMAL configurations.

To save money, airlines buy aircraft with engines and "Certified MTOW" sometimes lower than the advertised OPTIMAL aircraft. Some of these can be changed easily after the purchase (i.e. pay to certify to higher MTOW, HP 757s), while other cannot (i.e. higher thrust engines)

US's 330 are a prime example. It is well know that US opted for the Lower Thrust P&W Engines and these aircraft do not have the 5650NM range. Unless an airline is planing to use that optimal performance, it makes sense for them to save a little money on an aircraft that will perform its planned mission 99% of the time. Problems come later when an airlines decides to use an aircraft for a mission that they originally did not plan for (i.e. US's 321s).

US's next delivered 321's will be slightly different from the one currently being operated in their fleet. (Re-configured flaps, and slightly higher thrust engines)

The main difference between the 739ER and A321 is

739ER Bit more range (150NM)
321 Bit Larger passenger capacity in Legacy Airline Config.

The decisition will come down to what makes the mose economic sense....
You can't beat the Experience.
 
EA772LR
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 am

RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:22 am

On a second thought, how come US never ordered the 330-200? Could that have opened more routes for them? I realize they have the 350 still on order (right  Confused ) but why no 330-200?
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 90):

US does have the A332 on order with delieveries begining in 2008.

MCOflyer
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N1120A
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 78):
Is the 737-700ER an option? With a range of up to 5500nm, it might make sense from a range perspective.

First, flying the 73G on a route anywhere close to that long in a regular airline configuration would be a CASM nightmare. As it is, the normal 73G is absolutely fine for getting out of PHX and LAS and flying anywhere within the profitable range band for that aircraft, as is the standard A319.

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 82):
More than likely they want to dump the old HP 757's because they are just that, OLD (and tired).

Monarch still flies 1982 vintage 757s. I don't really see anything wrong with the HP 757s. Additionally, they are the ETOPS certified ones, while the only ETOPS 757s at US East are the ATA aircraft.

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 89):
It is well know that US opted for the Lower Thrust P&W Engines

They didn't opt for anything, PW screwed the pooch.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 90):
On a second thought, how come US never ordered the 330-200?

They have the A332 on order.
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EA772LR
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:52 am

"They have the A332 on order."

Yah I forgot. After I had posted that, I forgot that they had them on order. Where will US fly these 332's?
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
N1120A
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 93):
Where will US fly these 332's?

That is not known for sure, but at this point, they would likely go from PHL to farther afield destinations in Europe as well as operating potential PHX-Europe and possibly LAS-Europe. They also provide incremental increase in capacity for the 762ERs, allowing US to use those aircraft to then expand into newer markets with less risk.
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airfrnt
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:17 am

Boeing has no shot on this order. Being part of the creditors committe that shot down US's bid for DL makes sure of that.
 
HPRamper
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 78):
Is the 737-700ER an option? With a range of up to 5500nm, it might make sense from a range perspective.

Range-wise, sure but the main focus here is capacity which the -700 certainly does not have.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 95):
Boeing has no shot on this order. Being part of the creditors committe that shot down US's bid for DL makes sure of that.

That's petty. This is business and whoever offers the best deal (all things considered) will win out.
 
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scbriml
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 70):
The answer is simple. Boeing needs to reopen the 757 line.

Dream on. Ain't never going to happen.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 70):
Look at the demand across the board...everyone wants the damn things. Why did Boeing close the line in the first place?

Er, because nobody, that's nobody, was buying them?

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 71):
I think that is imagined by this forum.

Shock horror! Surely not?

Quoting Eskimo1 (Reply 75):
All these posts about the 757 makes me wonder what would have happened if the line could have stuck around a little longer....now that the airlines have realized the value and capability of the aircraft.

See response to first and second quotes. wave 
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STJ
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 70):
The answer is simple. Boeing needs to reopen the 757 line.

Look at the demand across the board...everyone wants the damn things. Why did Boeing close the line in the first place?



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 71):
Heh, cause nobody wanted it. Last ditch efforts to get orders failed.

The reality is, people want the ones they HAVE plus, in some cases like US, a few new ones. They don't want them for what they've been using them for.

When Boeing closed down the 757 line I think the market place was quite different and unfortunatly a very good airplane didn't fit the new model real well. I think the market has changed and with a bit of technology (ie winglets) the 757 now has a good niche and frankly I think Boeing could sell them again, only problem is the line is being used for 737's which they can't seem to make fast enough.

If you look at all the threads here that talk about 757 replacements they all seem to come to the same conclusion that there isn't really anything that can replace it, you either get more or less than you are looking for and frankly the 757 wing design is probably one of the best ever designed.

If I were Boeing rather than start from scratch I would maybe investigate putting a little R&D into the 757 and come up with a few new variants (ie 400/500/600/f) and see how the market reacts. Build a 757 specifically for flying East Coast to Europe or West Coast (or near West Coast) to HNL. With a little work a 757NG I think would sell well right now and you would not be stepping on 787 sales and get a jump Airbus.

Just my 2 cents anyway.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: US Taking RFP For 737-900ER

Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 92):
Monarch still flies 1982 vintage 757s. I don't really see anything wrong with the HP 757s. Additionally, they are the ETOPS certified ones, while the only ETOPS 757s at US East are the ATA aircraft.

They are certainly still useable, but we used them for short flights when we were HP, so they also have high cycles. If anything they need a MAJOR overhaul inside...like we did with the 767's. They look pretty ratty.
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