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ORL777
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Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:34 am

almost all of the Caribbean Cities served by AA have A300 in the schedule, but SXM no? why?
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:40 am

To answer your question with the limited knowledge i have of the carribean is that simply because the A300 is utilized on high density routes where people are going back to their native countries (i.e. Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, and some parts of South America). SXM is primarily a tourist destination and i assume AA likes to send in their 757's simply because its the appropriate equipment.
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MAH4546
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:40 am

Quoting Orl777 (Thread starter):
almost all of the Caribbean Cities served by AA have A300 in the schedule, but SXM no? why?

"Almost all"? Huh? Only Santo Domingo, Port Au Prince, Montego Bay, San Juan, and Santiago. Four of those markets are high-density, VFR markets. St. Maarten is definitley not a VFR market, it is a leisure market, and the A300s are not used heavily on leisure markets.
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akizidy214
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:47 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
"Almost all"? Huh? Only Santo Domingo, Port Au Prince, Montego Bay, San Juan, and Santiago.

Add Kingston to that list.
DCA
 
b52murph
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:53 am

Ah...the days. In '85 I flew PA 225 JFK-SXM and PA 226 SXM-JFK. 747-100 (N9670, a -123 bought from AA) going and 747SP (substituted) coming back. Do any of the US carriers fly widebodies into SXM anymore?

b52murph
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:06 pm

Quoting B52murph (Reply 4):
Do any of the US carriers fly widebodies into SXM anymore?

I believe US operated their 762 into SXM once
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navairjax
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:33 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 1):
SXM is primarily a tourist destination and i assume AA likes to send in their 757's simply because its the appropriate equipment.

Here's another thought, the AB6 is also used for its cargo capacity. Do you really think that much cargo would actually go to SXM?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 3):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
"Almost all"? Huh? Only Santo Domingo, Port Au Prince, Montego Bay, San Juan, and Santiago.

Add Kingston to that list.

No reason to. The A300 is not used to Kingston. All three daily Miami-Kingston flights are 737-800s, and they no longer fly New York City-Kingston.
a.
 
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ORL777
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:49 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Almost all"? Huh? Only Santo Domingo, Port Au Prince, Montego Bay, San Juan, and Santiago. Four of those markets are high-density, VFR markets. St. Maarten is definitley not a VFR market, it is a leisure market, and the A300s are not used heavily on leisure markets.

So they only use 757 in SXM routes, thanks for the replies.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:08 pm

AA used the A300's to SXM in the early 90's.



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SFOJFK
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:22 pm

AA has used 762s into SXM during the winters in the past as well from JFK.
 
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cybergus
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
"Almost all"? Huh? Only Santo Domingo, Port Au Prince, Montego Bay, San Juan, and Santiago.

You forgot CCS!
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MAH4546
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting Cybergus (Reply 11):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
"Almost all"? Huh? Only Santo Domingo, Port Au Prince, Montego Bay, San Juan, and Santiago.

You forgot CCS!

Caracas is in South America. I didn't include South American or Central American destinations, which would add Caracas, Lima, Bogota, Guayquil, Guatemala City, and Managua. Cancun is also served with A300s
a.
 
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cybergus
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Caracas is in South America. I didn't include South American or Central American destinations, which would add Caracas, Lima, Bogota, Guayquil, Guatemala City, and Managua. Cancun is also served with A300s

Yeah you're right sorry for that!  boxedin 
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KELPkid
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 9):
AA used the A300's to SXM in the early 90's.

Since when did MQ fly the A300 (look at the paint in that picture if you don't get the joke)  Wink...
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akizidy214
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
No reason to. The A300 is not used to Kingston. All three daily Miami-Kingston flights are 737-800s, and they no longer fly New York City-Kingston.

Hmmmm cause I was on flight 2386 KIN-JFK A300 last July. I just looked at the schedule for the rest of the year didn't know the dropped the seaosanl route. Thanks for the heads up!
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stirling
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:34 am

Eastern used the A300 into St Maarten....from San Juan, and Philadelphia. Looks like the PHL-SJU-SXM-SJU-PHL run was enough for one days worth of work for that A300.

Before the A300, Eastern served St Maarten with a weak round-robin affair, MIA-SXM-ANU-MIA, on a 727.

Quoting B52murph (Reply 4):
In '85 I flew PA 225 JFK-SXM and PA 226 SXM-JFK. 747-100 (N9670, a -123 bought from AA) going and 747SP (substituted) coming back.

Sounds like both were subs?, since my archives (not the definitive end-all for information, but close!) indicate PA225/PA226 as normally an A300 flight, sometimes in low-season A310s, and then 727s opping on the odd days with lower pax loads, like Mondays.

Other routes PanAm had was a 727 doing a daily SXM-STX-MIA run.

But the problem with any discussion of PanAm's operations is that they changed things around so often, one never knew what to expect....One month there would be 3 daily 747s from LAX to CCS, the next month they'd all be gone replaced with a 727 flight via Guatemala City!

And finally, prior to deregulation, American primarily used 707s, then 727s into SXM; on the following routes:
JFK-FDF-SXM-JFK FrSu
JFK-PTP-SXM-JFK ThSa
JFK-SXM-JFK Daily
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b52murph
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 16):
Quoting B52murph (Reply 4):
In '85 I flew PA 225 JFK-SXM and PA 226 SXM-JFK. 747-100 (N9670, a -123 bought from AA) going and 747SP (substituted) coming back.

Sounds like both were subs?, since my archives (not the definitive end-all for information, but close!) indicate PA225/PA226 as normally an A300 flight, sometimes in low-season A310s, and then 727s opping on the odd days with lower pax loads, like Mondays.

I'm quite certain, that for that periods' timetable, the full size 747s were not a sub. I used to have that timetable, but it was lost a few years back. I did note that at a later time ('86 maybe?) the route did switch to an A300. The load definitely didn't warrant a 747--I remember anyone that wanted to stretch out on a row of seats in the back could do so with ease; the load was probably less than 40%. The sub for the -SP was made at the last minute....IIRC, we ended up waiting at the airport for over 5 hours for the aircraft to come down from JFK, and there was more than enough room for all of us going back despite the reduction in capacity.
 
stirling
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting B52murph (Reply 17):
I'm quite certain, that for that periods' timetable, the full size 747s were not a sub.

What time of year was it? And, do you remember the day of the week?

PanAm was sure squirrely in those days, why I enjoy collecting their timetables so much....every new issue was different from the last....but out of all those in my archive, I don't have the one for your particular experience!

What I'm currious about, if I read your post correctly, was that the 747SP was subbed at SXM?
That's odd, or should I say, par for the course as PA is concerned!

There are a couple of possibilities of how they got the 747SP to SXM, depending on what day of the week you were flying on.

It might have been the SP that operated EZE-MIA; PA454, which had a 16 hour layover in Miami on Fri and Sun. They could have ferried it down to SXM and still make the turn back to EZE.

Or.

It might have been an interruption to PA447/448, which was MIA-CCS, Sat only...the layover was only a couple of hours in CCS, but, PA had 2 more MIA-CCS flights on SAT, both daily, both standard-issue 747s.
It might have made sense to PA to bump the 200+/- passengers off this flight and move them on to one of the other two flights.
And getting it up from CCS would have only been a couple of hours, or less, a lot closer than MIA or JFK. (1075nm and 1500nm)

Or.

If your flight was on a Mon, PA454, that EZE-MIA flight continued on for JFK.....but only on that day, the rest of the week, they did a change-of-gauge in Miami, on Sat the flight continued on with a DC10, and then on TuWeThFrSu they used a 727.

Or.

They ferried in an aircraft from JFK. The 747SP fleet spent a lot of time on the ground.

Dhahran. Arrived 0550 ExMoTu || Departed 2230 ExSaSu
Miami. Arrived 1143 Mo || Departed 1815 Th
Rio de Janeiro. Arrived 0605 Daily || Departed 2200 Daily
San Francisco. Arrived 1820 Daily || Departed 0900 Daily
Tokyo. Arrived 1740 Daily || Departed 1200 Daily
Tokyo. Arrived 1710 Fr || Departed 1240 Sa

As you can see, there were many holes where they could have sent a 747SP down to SXM for about 10 hours or so.

I pulled this information from other timetables from 1986....so, in reality, this has probably been just an exercise in futility!
 Wink
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b52murph
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 18):
What time of year was it? And, do you remember the day of the week?

It was April of 1985--sometime between the 15th and the 30th (can't remember if it was last week or next to last week). Saturday-Saturday, I believe. In a box elsewhere in the U.S.A., I have those old boarding passes, but won't be able to access them anytime soon. They were squirrely--on strike squirrley. Our flight leaving JFK was at least an hour or more late because the Captain was taking part in some kind of slow down. Being 11/12 years old at the time, the first officer let me sit in the cockpit forever (could have been an hour? don't remember!) while we waited for the Captain.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 18):
What I'm currious about, if I read your post correctly, was that the 747SP was subbed at SXM?
That's odd, or should I say, par for the course as PA is concerned!

They certainly did! My father got some pics of it arriving in the familiar Maho Beach setting---low over the fence, years before any of the similar pics were taken that are posted on this site. I've tried to post those pics a couple times for him, but...always rejected! I don't know how many other times SXM actually saw a 747SP.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 18):
They ferried in an aircraft from JFK. The 747SP fleet spent a lot of time on the ground.

Dhahran. Arrived 0550 ExMoTu || Departed 2230 ExSaSu
Miami. Arrived 1143 Mo || Departed 1815 Th
Rio de Janeiro. Arrived 0605 Daily || Departed 2200 Daily
San Francisco. Arrived 1820 Daily || Departed 0900 Daily
Tokyo. Arrived 1740 Daily || Departed 1200 Daily
Tokyo. Arrived 1710 Fr || Departed 1240 Sa

They did ferry in an aircraft from JFK--I've always thought it was one of the Tokyo planes, because the seats had Japanese versions of the PA magazine as well as English versions. In that same box as the boarding passes, I have the Japanese Magazine. I don't remember if it came in empty, but what I do remember is that we were due to stop at Aruba? on the way back to JFK...that stop was cancelled. The flight number was also supposed to be '226', but it stayed '225' on the way back. Those boarding passes are hand-written and have little stickey tabs for the seats; which, BTW, were upgraded to Biz Class, although, not on purpose. Also facinating about that flight is that the Captain took off the wrong way on the runway from all the other traffic (no the wind didn't shift!), and he then made the bumpiest landing back at JFK that I've ever felt. Finally, during that flight I went upstairs (they let me wander the plane!), and sat in an empty first class seat for a few minutes. The captain came out while I was sitting there to have a cigarette and cup of coffee--no joke! Certainly different times.
 
stirling
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:53 am

B52Murph,

Thanks for your memories! I appreciate the time you took in going over the minutiae!

I can remember exactly where I was, and what I was doing in April 1985.....while you and your folks were frolicking on the beach, I was working through another late spring blizzard at Grand Forks AFB...I loved my BUFFs, but the Caribbean, now that would have been perfect!
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GARUDAROD
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:29 am

AA used to have a daily DC10 that operated LAX/DFW/SJU/SXM.
Or at least thats what the flight number was, it may have changed aircraft on the SJU/SXM legs.
I used to send quite a bit of cargo from DPS to SXM and used AA for the beyond LAX legs.
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
D L X
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
St. Maarten is definitley not a VFR market, it is a leisure market, and the A300s are not used heavily on leisure markets.

This guy was taken at Aruba, which is certainly a leisure market.

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b52murph
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 20):
B52Murph,

Thanks for your memories! I appreciate the time you took in going over the minutiae!

I can remember exactly where I was, and what I was doing in April 1985.....while you and your folks were frolicking on the beach, I was working through another late spring blizzard at Grand Forks AFB...I loved my BUFFs, but the Caribbean, now that would have been perfect!

Not to be off-topic, but there's an interesting connection in itself. I was BUFFs [maint officer] @ Minot, '96-'99. Cheers!
 
b52murph
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:00 am

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 21):
AA used to have a daily DC10 that operated LAX/DFW/SJU/SXM.
Or at least thats what the flight number was, it may have changed aircraft on the SJU/SXM legs.
I used to send quite a bit of cargo from DPS to SXM and used AA for the beyond LAX legs.

Yes, they sure did! In addition to those 747 pics, I have several shots of the AA DC-10 flight taxiing and taking off. Man...need to get good scans of them and get them posted.

b52murph
 
A999
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:58 pm

AA495 MIA-SJU-SXM AB3 Daily ABC July 1991
 
adizzy
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:26 am

When is B6 going to make this hop?
 
RobertS975
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:57 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
high-density, VFR markets. St. Maarten is definitley not a VFR market,

I apologize in advance for my ignorance, but what does "VFR" mean? Other than "visual flight rules?"
 
Cadet57
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 22):
This guy was taken at Aruba, which is certainly a leisure market.

It would have to be a sub. As all the AUA flights opperate with the 757or ATR7. Thou I could be wrong for JFK-AUA, but I know for a fact DFW,MIA, and SJU are all 757 and ATR7
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STT757
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 27):
I apologize in advance for my ignorance, but what does "VFR" mean?

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Yankees
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:59 am

Did AA operate an A300 to STT once
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STT757
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting Yankees (Reply 30):
Did AA operate an A300 to STT once

They flew A300s to STT for many years, SJU, MIA, and JFK received A300 flights. Even St.Croix used to get A300 flights from AA and Pan Am. During the busy Winter months CO flew A300s a couple of times a week to STT from EWR in the late '80s and early '90s.
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AA767400
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 22):
This guy was taken at Aruba, which is certainly a leisure market.

We use to fly the bus to AUA a couple years back, and briefly again for a month in 2006. CUN/PUJ are the only leisure markets AA uses the bus, and Mark stated "Not used heavily on leisure markets" not "not used at all".
"The low fares airline."
 
Yankees
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RE: Why AA Doesn´t Operate A300 Into SXM?

Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:24 am

sometimes i see a b763 for aa in sxm is tht sceduled or change
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