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sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:56 am

From FlightAware, below is the route that DL16 flew from yesterday from JFK-BOM. I would expect today, ATL-BOM would not be too different. Perhaps someone can explain where these way points are located.
]
GREKI3 GREKI JUDDS MARTN TAFFY N165E
VALIE NATX ELPIN UN563 MIMKU UN563 GOW
UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL UA277 NM
UA277 GAMAN A277 LAMET A277 BANUT UA277
BARUS UP567 ULDUS UN319 ZDN UL125 DANIB
G208 PG G210 BBB
 
mtsubshe
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:54 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:00 am

looks like its only 14 hrs flight from atlanta to bombay
 
mtsubshe
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:54 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:03 am

if it leaves atlanta at 950pm its 820am in india, it arrives in india at 1020 pm, which is 14 hrs
 
star_world
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:52 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:12 am

It seems like a lot of people are getting over-excited here. It's 386nm longer than the regularly scheduled EWR-HKG which operates perfectly well without the benefit of any west-east tailwinds. I have a feeling they know what they're doing here guys  Smile
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting Star_world (Reply 53):
It seems like a lot of people are getting over-excited here.

Not really over-excited  Silly, it's what we do best here.
You can't cure stupid
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 40):

Why should DL fly SFO-BOM?!?

LAX-BOM would be an interesting DL route once they get their B777-200LR's....this is also a route nicely suited for the B787's...

....also, any carrier which starts BLR-SFO will clean up house.....this is a route IT's Mallya wants to start once he gets the A345's and government clearance......
"Up the Irons!"
 
STJ
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:19 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 45):
My money's on a tech-stop in HEL of ARN !!!

7395nm, even with the tail winds,

I don't know those winds are really cooking right now, last night they looked at holding NW 56 MSP-AMS for 39 connecting pax and they said an hour would be no problem because they could easily make that up with the really good tailwinds/jetstream right now. So even on that short of a flight realativley speaking making up an hour, that's a lot of fuel.
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:56 am

An update, the flight is now delayed until 2255hr local (0255Z).
 
pnqiad
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:05 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting Mtsubshe (Reply 52):
if it leaves atlanta at 950pm its 820am in india, it arrives in india at 1020 pm, which is 14 hrs

After the DST change it will be 7.20 am making it a 15 hr. flight....
 
EA772LR
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:53 am

"LAX-BOM would be an interesting DL route once they get their B777-200LR's....this is also a route nicely suited for the B787's..."

 checkmark   checkmark 

I would love to see either aircraft make this route. Wonder if DL will go for the 787-8 or 787-9 and when?
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting AirMailer (Reply 35):
I know, I know, some would say that's impossible because Ney York is so special; but there are a lot of companies in Atlanta that work with companies in India so it's at least plausible.



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 42):
(I can only assume the majority of the people were originating out of JFK).

While there is a substantial Indian presence in ATL (thank goodness because I LOVE Indian food) keep in mind there are a lot of connecting passengers going through ATL from all over the SE and Ohio valley area.
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:59 am

Here is it boys and girls...the routing from ATL to BOM for DL 16 tonight:

GREKI3 GREKI JUDDS MARTN TAFFY N165E VALIE NATX ELPIN UN563 MIMKU UN563 GOW UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL UA277 NM UA277 GAMAN A277 LAMET A277 BANUT UA277 BARUS UP567 ULDUS UN319 ZDN UL125 DANIB G208 PG G210 BBB
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5):
If the flight takes the most direct route, it shouldn't get anywhere close to the Middle East unless you count Pakistan.



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 8):
Excuse me if im worng but wouldnt the direct route take it over Iran and onto into India??



Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 16):

Such a routing would add 400nm to the flight, not a good option.



Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 20):
The direct Great Circle route doesn't take the winds into account, which DL is counting on for the nonstop to work. The winds for today show the jet stream blowing across the Atlantic just south of Iceland and across Africa and the Middle East, which is south of the GCR.



Quoting Cba (Reply 41):

Considering that the flight is already pushing the limits of the 772ER, 400nm extra is a hell of a lot of extra distance.

Before seeing the filed plan, my best guess given the current winds is that it would indeed fly substantially south of the GC route, and would actually want to overfly Syria, Iran, etc., but probably would route north to avoid them, don't know if DL has overflight permissions for them (or would even want to). Also the wind-optimal route I guessed was in fact over 300nm longer than the great-circle, be careful when you guys ignore winds.

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 50):
GREKI3 GREKI JUDDS MARTN TAFFY N165E
VALIE NATX ELPIN UN563 MIMKU UN563 GOW
UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL UA277 NM
UA277 GAMAN A277 LAMET A277 BANUT UA277
BARUS UP567 ULDUS UN319 ZDN UL125 DANIB
G208 PG G210 BBB

NATX is part of the North Atlantic Tracks between the NE US and northern Europe, and it's not the northern-most -- ie, far below the great circle. You may be able to track down the NOTAM announcing the NATs for the 16th, I don't have a public source handy, but believe me, it's substantially south of the great circle.

The points shown are then over Scotland, Denmark, Poland, Ukraine, ... Georgia, ... northern Iran... so in fact a little further north than I would have predicted, but still significantly south of the great circle.
7 hours aint long-haul
 
mk777
Posts: 888
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:48 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting B777ER (Reply 61):

Can you please explain it to the ignorant me, all these terms etc etc?
come fly with me
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting B777ER (Reply 61):
Here is it boys and girls...the routing from ATL to BOM for DL 16 tonight:
GREKI3 GREKI JUDDS MARTN TAFFY N165E VALIE NATX ELPIN UN563 MIMKU UN563 GOW UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL UA277 NM UA277 GAMAN A277 LAMET A277 BANUT UA277 BARUS UP567 ULDUS UN319 ZDN UL125 DANIB G208 PG G210 BBB

Check again -- that's actually yesterday's route still. Clicking on the flight number still shows yesterday's, not today's.

GREKI3 is a SID out of JFK, could not be filed out of ATL.
7 hours aint long-haul
 
DALOCCDtyDrctr
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:32 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:32 am

Looks like it's been cancelled...


03/15 19:11 Turn Time Alert Code Update - Code Update To Null
03/15 19:11 Actual LOF Sequence is # 0, FlightLeg Type is F
03/15 19:11 Canceled
03/15 19:11 No Aircraft, need a 777. Was Aircraft 007004(777)
03/15 19:11 ETA of 17MAR 22:20 [17MAR 16:50 GMT]
03/15 19:11 Assigned Aircraft 007004(777)
03/15 14:42 Departure Gate E11->E10 (Default), Public Departure Gate E11->E10 (Default), Internal Departure Gate E11->E10, [SMRS]
03/15 08:04 Arrival Gate 06->04 (Default), Public Arrival Gate 06->04 (Default), Internal Arrival Gate 06->04, [SMRS]
03/15 06:11 Arrival Gate 04->06 (Default), Public Arrival Gate 04->06 (Default), Internal Arrival Gate 04->06, [SMRS]
03/15 06:04 Departure Gate E10->E11 (Default), Public Departure Gate E10->E11 (Default), Internal Departure Gate E10->E11, [SMRS]
03/15 04:01 Blocked seats updated: 0/0/24

[Edited 2007-03-17 02:34:23]
N102DA
 
awthompson
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:59 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:37 am

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 4):
Dont want to be on that flight deck when the wind shifts or drops and then the pilots are looking for a tech stop somewhere in the Middle East!!



Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5):
If the flight takes the most direct route, it shouldn't get anywhere close to the Middle East unless you count Pakistan.



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 8):
Excuse me if im worng but wouldnt the direct route take it over Iran and onto into India?? So the flight will have to cross the Middle East at some point!!
Unless anybody can show me a map of the route!



Quoting Mtsubshe (Reply 10):
i believe from atlanta ,it flies east towards spain, then cross the mediterranean sea, into jordan , to saudi arabia, to oman then to bombay, any way it will be a long flight,



Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 11):
Here's the great circle mapper map of the route. If it had to do a tech stop, it's going to be KEF, LED, or maybe SVO, but not DXB or MAD.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12):
That aircraft won't come anywhere near Spain, as that would be way out of the way



Quoting Mtsubshe (Reply 14):
how about they take the same route as they fly to tel aviv from atlanta,then to jordan, to saudi, then oman ,to bombay



Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 15):
Northern route is ATL-BOM, southern route is ATL-TLV-AMM-RUH-MCT-BOM. There's no reason to take such a circuitous route, especially when the aircraft is already pushing endurance limits.



Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 50):
From FlightAware, below is the route that DL16 flew from yesterday from JFK-BOM. I would expect today, ATL-BOM would not be too different. Perhaps someone can explain where these way points are located.
]
GREKI3 GREKI JUDDS MARTN TAFFY N165E
VALIE NATX ELPIN UN563 MIMKU UN563 GOW
UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL UA277 NM
UA277 GAMAN A277 LAMET A277 BANUT UA277
BARUS UP567 ULDUS UN319 ZDN UL125 DANIB
G208 PG G210 BBB

I was about to say that all of these route suggestions could be wrong and any one of them could be right.

Great circle routes however really don't have a great deal to do with a flight like this and SunriseValley has more or less answered what I was about to post.

Before I read his post I was about to say that the flight has little choice but take one of the NATS North Atlantic tracks (which are a set of up to eight tracks drawn up daily for transatlantic flights (both directions) to take best advantage of / minimise the effects of easterly high altitude winds). This is likely to provide land fall somewhere over Ireland or the UK (in SunriseValley's example: MIMKU - just off Northern Ireland where I live). After that, the route will be similar to any flight from say LHR or MAN to Bombay which is most likely to be a diagonal across Europe, Turkey and/or Black Sea / Georgia, Iran, Afghanistan and/or Pakistan, India.

There is a chance however that the flight could of course request to opt out of the North Atlantic Track System and plot what is referred to as a "Random Track." They would therefore be free to route well to the north or south of the organised track system with landfall as far north as Norway or as far south as Spain. For the remainder of the route, it's back to the chart again!

And by the way, you cannot actually request your North Atlantic track until you are 30-60 minutes from the oceanic entry points and this is done normally by VHF radio - so the crew will not know their precise route for sure until they are well into the flight. It is worth pointing out for those not familiar with North Atlantic operations that you don't necessarily get the track you request and often have to accept whichever track is offered by New York or Gander Oceanic Control (Eastbound) or Shanwick Oceanic Control (westbound.) Depending on which track they get, they may well have to replot their route thereafter depending on where they enter domestic airspace on the other side of the Atlantic track system.

In summary, the crew must consider the route in three independent modules, US/Canada domestic airspace, the North Atlantic and then the Europe/Asia sector.

For those pilots among you who read this, you will of course understand that the above is a simplified description of how the North Atlantic track system works.

NOTE: Flightaware and other similar sites only display the requested/proposed/flight planned (for domestic flights) route before departure which for such a lengthy flight may have little similarity with the actual route flown.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting DALOCCDtyDrctr (Reply 65):
Looks like it's been cancelled...

ATL-BOM is still operating...ETD 2255 awaiting arr ship 7006 from LAX at 2057.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:45 am

Quoting Awthompson (Reply 66):
In summary, the crew must consider the route in three independent modules, US/Canada domestic airspace, the North Atlantic and then the Europe/Asia sector.

given how many transatlantic flights have been cancelled today due to NYC weather and because DL is operating this flight so late - it won't be ready to turn out across the Atlantic until well after midnight - DL should be able to get whatever track it wants tonite for 16.

Duty director,
I take it you are not actually what your handle suggests. Although what you have copied looks like real internal info, I would think you would know whether the flight is cancelled or not.... delta.com still shows the flight delayed as widget head notes...
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting DALOCCDtyDrctr (Reply 65):
Looks like it's been cancelled...


03/15 19:11 Turn Time Alert Code Update - Code Update To Null
03/15 19:11 Actual LOF Sequence is # 0, FlightLeg Type is F
03/15 19:11 Canceled
03/15 19:11 No Aircraft, need a 777. Was Aircraft 007004(777)
03/15 19:11 ETA of 17MAR 22:20 [17MAR 16:50 GMT]
03/15 19:11 Assigned Aircraft 007004(777)
03/15 14:42 Departure Gate E11->E10 (Default), Public Departure Gate E11->E10 (Default), Internal Departure Gate E11->E10, [SMRS]
03/15 08:04 Arrival Gate 06->04 (Default), Public Arrival Gate 06->04 (Default), Internal Arrival Gate 06->04, [SMRS]
03/15 06:11 Arrival Gate 04->06 (Default), Public Arrival Gate 04->06 (Default), Internal Arrival Gate 04->06, [SMRS]
03/15 06:04 Departure Gate E10->E11 (Default), Public Departure Gate E10->E11 (Default), Internal Departure Gate E10->E11, [SMRS]
03/15 04:01 Blocked seats updated: 0/0/24

Wouldn't it say 03/16?
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2617
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:55 am

Quoting B777ER (Reply 61):
Here is it boys and girls...the routing from ATL to BOM for DL 16 tonight:

GREKI3 GREKI JUDDS MARTN TAFFY N165E VALIE NATX ELPIN UN563 MIMKU UN563 GOW UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL UA277 NM UA277 GAMAN A277 LAMET A277 BANUT UA277 BARUS UP567 ULDUS UN319 ZDN UL125 DANIB G208 PG G210 BBB

And now, may we have it in plain English.....? Big grin

Thanks for the effort anyway....
 
DALOCCDtyDrctr
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:32 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:02 am

No I'm not, and have never claimed to be - to everybody else, sorry about that post - i didn't continue up through the flight history to see that they had decided on ship 7006 - thanks Widget Head

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 68):
Although what you have copied looks like real internal info

that info is straight out of the flight history on our intranet - here is the rest of it

03/16 21:23 ETD of 16MAR 22:55 [17MAR 02:55 GMT]
03/16 21:23 ETA of 17MAR 23:25 [17MAR 17:55 GMT]
03/16 21:22 Cabin Status Update - (OSS) Changed Aircraft, For Ship Number DL 007006, At Gate , At Fri 03/16/2007 21:22:20
03/16 21:22 Corr. Action Req. Time Cleared due to Aircraft change
03/16 21:22 Assigned Aircraft 007006(777), was 007004(777)
03/15 19:11 Scheduled Times Changed: SkdDprt: 16MAR 17:50 SkdArr: 17MAR 22:10
03/15 19:11 ETD of 16MAR 21:50 [17MAR 01:50 GMT]
03/15 19:11 Turn Time Alert Code Update - Code Update To Null
03/15 19:11 Actual LOF Sequence is # 0, FlightLeg Type is F
03/15 19:11 Canceled
03/15 19:11 No Aircraft, need a 777. Was Aircraft 007004(777)

that is cut down quite a bit - the info missing is repeated info about payload -

again i apologize for the inacurate info, but i feel quite confident thats not the first mistaken post on this site...i appreciate your patience
N102DA
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:45 am

My bad,

Here is tonights:

UGAAA1 AHN J208 HPW J191 RBV JFK PUT TAFFY N165E VALIE NATV ERAKA NATV ETSOM UN581 VAXIT UP60 AMRAM UL983 VES UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL TTY TTY

Looks like after TTY maybe they will refile depending on fuel?
 
super80
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:49 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:46 am

I see that DL 17 JFK-ATL was cancelled today. So is DL using the same 777 to fly on DL 16 out from ATL?

Currently on Delta website is showing "Boarding" for DL 16 (2245 EDT) 5 hours delay ...
 
awthompson
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:59 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting B777ER (Reply 61):
Here is it boys and girls...the routing from ATL to BOM for DL 16 tonight:

GREKI3 GREKI JUDDS MARTN TAFFY N165E VALIE NATX ELPIN UN563 MIMKU UN563 GOW UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL UA277 NM UA277 GAMAN A277 LAMET A277 BANUT UA277 BARUS UP567 ULDUS UN319 ZDN UL125 DANIB G208 PG G210 BBB

Although that is of couse DAL16 from JFK to BOM on the 15th March, that proportion of the route might not be far off the actual route used on our ATL-BOM under discussion.  Wink

I have been able to translate some of the more difficult parts, someone else can do the European bit.

NATX is North Atlantic Track "X"

MIMKU which is just off Northern Ireland (where I live!)

GOW - Glasgow, Scotland

Then the flight cuts across Europe ie Germany / Romania

Black Sea

BARUS - in Armenia

ULDUS - over the Caspian Sea close to the official borders of Azerbaijan / Turkmenistan / Iran

ZDN - Zahedan in Iran just before they cross into Afghanistan

Then Pakistan

Then India
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3800
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting Super80 (Reply 73):
see that DL 17 JFK-ATL was cancelled today. So is DL using the same 777 to fly on DL 16 out from ATL?

Currently on Delta website is showing "Boarding" for DL 16 (2245 EDT) 5 hours delay ...

no, 7004 was originally sked. DL is 7006 instead (opping lax-atl-bom)
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:06 am

Quoting B777ER (Reply 72):
UGAAA1 AHN J208 HPW J191 RBV JFK PUT TAFFY N165E VALIE NATV ERAKA NATV ETSOM UN581 VAXIT UP60 AMRAM UL983 VES UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL TTY TTY

For those that don't know how to read the above: Most 3 letter identifiers are VOR's for instance AHN is Athens, GA, RBV is Robinsville, NJ. The J and the number is called Jet Airways. These are basically highways in the sky. J airways are above FL180. Anything below that (at least here in the US) is V airways. N165E is an airway in Canada. Anything with N and a number is up in Canada. NATV is one of the daily NAT (North Atlantic Tracks) tracks that Gander and Shanwick put out daily taking into account winds. NATS below say T are always eastbound while those from say A to G are westbound with A being higher up in the Atlantic than G. Any airways beginning with U are in Europe airspace. I think UN means Upper North while UL means Upper Lower meaning it is an Upper airway (like J in US) and North is in northern Europe while L is in lower Europe. Hope this helps.
 
awthompson
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:59 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:10 am

Quoting B777ER (Reply 72):
My bad,

Here is tonights:

UGAAA1 AHN J208 HPW J191 RBV JFK PUT TAFFY N165E VALIE NATV ERAKA NATV ETSOM UN581 VAXIT UP60 AMRAM UL983 VES UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL TTY TTY

Looks like after TTY maybe they will refile depending on fuel?

JFK - no marks for guessing than one

NATV - North Atlantic Track "Victor"

(This depends on getting the track they have requested so all could still change completely!)

ERAKA - position 58N 10W over the eastern Atlantic, west of Benbecula in the Hebrides (Scotland)

ETSOM - just after ERAKA still over the eastern Atlantic

UN581 - crosses Northern Scotland and over Aberdeen on the other side

Sorry folks, don't have a map for the next bit

Can someone else translate the remainder ?
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:11 am

I see now that DL152 (the 777 service to TLV from ATL) is now delayed with one site saying until 0200 local (2240L sked departure)! I know DL152 starts in LAX to ATL then to TLV. So I guess the BOM flight is getting this ship. So what I wonder will they use for the TLV run tonight?
 
dinya11
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:17 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:21 am

Does anybody know if Dl 16 actually left atl?
 
super80
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:49 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:33 am

Yeah ! DL 16 left already..

It is showing something like this



http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h77/mikelaw1122/ATLBOM.jpg
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:37 am

Yes, wheels up 29 minutes ago. Its showing a flight time of 16hr 42min. Total of 8535nm. Sked to arrive at 1947GMT.
Routing again is:
UGAAA1 AHN J208 HPW J191 RBV JFK PUT TAFFY N165E VALIE NATV ERAKA NATV ETSOM UN581 VAXIT UP60 AMRAM UL983 VES UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL TTY TTY

Looks like they will refile at TTY depending on fuel. I wonder how they crewed this flight. Same as always or maybe an extra relief pilot.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:52 am

DL uses 2 full crews on this flight fom JFK.... they still aren't over 16 hrs so no need for add'l crew. The flight is intended to come back through JFK so no need for extra crew.

There are alot of routes from ATL that are around 8500 miles such as HKG, BOM, JNB.... and I think we'll be seeing more than a few of them flown by DL in the next couple years.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:01 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 82):
DL uses 2 full crews on this flight fom JFK....

4 pilots and the DL appropriate number of f/a. Our DEL flights are 4 pilots and 12 cabin crew (using CO as a comparative).
2 full crews sounds like 2 sets of crew (twice the pilots and twice the cabin crew).
You can't cure stupid
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:01 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 82):
they still aren't over 16 hrs so no need for add'l crew

Sked time aloft is 42 min past the 16hr mark.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting B777ER (Reply 84):
Sked time aloft is 42 min past the 16hr mark.

Negative. Block to block is only estimated at 14hrs 3mins. The ship was off at 0303Z and is estimated to arr at 1706Z.
 
HnlBoi
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:37 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:41 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 83):

Whats the rotation with a 12 man F/A crew that CO uses on the DEL flights. Sorry I think you might have explained that in a earlier post about the DEL flights.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting HnlBoi (Reply 86):
Whats the rotation with a 12 man F/A crew that CO uses on the DEL flights. Sorry I think you might have explained that in a earlier post about the DEL flights.

We just do the service, down time (time between services) two crew rest periods (4 on each break (3 breaks)), mid service, last crew break, final meal service then land. All f/a are up for service.
You can't cure stupid
 
dinya11
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:17 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:04 pm

Quoting Super80 (Reply 80):
Yeah ! DL 16 left already..

It is showing something like this

Thank you Super 80
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:13 pm

Quoting B777ER (Reply 81):
Routing again is:
UGAAA1 AHN J208 HPW J191 RBV JFK PUT TAFFY N165E VALIE NATV ERAKA NATV ETSOM UN581 VAXIT UP60 AMRAM UL983 VES UL983 ROE UL621 LIN UN191 USTIL TTY TTY

Looks like they will refile at TTY depending on fuel. I wonder how they crewed this flight. Same as always or maybe an extra relief pilot.

TTY isn't a point, it represents additional lines of information -- filing is still on a pretty old communications protocol. I guess from this that FliteAware only takes up to two (or one?) lines of the route since most fit in that anyway, but this one is a little bit long.

When an ailine uses reclear or decision-point or refile depending on fuel or whatever you want to call it, they still file their entire intended route from departure to destination, and depending on which places they're re overflying/filing to, they may include a remark containing information about their decision/reclear point and planned diver route, or they may ignore it completely. Either way, you won't see them file a partial route to nowhere.
7 hours aint long-haul
 
panamair
Topic Author
Posts: 4134
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Spinkid (Reply 23):
quite likely will be a very empty flight going ATL-BOM. I imagine they pick up most traffic as O & D from JFK and those passengers weren't rerouted through ATL instead.

No, people forget that many people are making connections from other US cities (not NYC nor ATL). With DL's feed into ATL, they could pretty much reroute everyone connecting through JFK through ATL instead. You'd be surprised the number of people on DL16/17 who are connecting or even double connecting (thru JFK and ATL) to other points.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 68):
given how many transatlantic flights have been cancelled today due to NYC weather and because DL is operating this flight so late - it won't be ready to turn out across the Atlantic until well after midnight - DL should be able to get whatever track it wants tonite for 16.

Correct..pretty much every DL transatlantic flight out of JFK on 3/16 was cancelled; when I arrived JFK this morning (3/17) on DL17 from BOM, the whole Terminal 3 was filled with 763ERs, and JFK as a whole was filled with flights cancelled from last night (2 LX A332s, 2 LH A330 or A340, JL 744, OS 763, CX 744, SQ 744, etc.). As a reference, one of the few flights to get out last night was AF007 to CDG scheduled at 8:20pm; that flight didn't even leave the gate until 0153 this morning....if DL16 had made the JFK stop, the boomerang delay on the return would have been pretty significant as well...

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 85):
Negative. Block to block is only estimated at 14hrs 3mins.

FWIW, my time aloft today (3/17) on DL17 from BOM to JFK was 16 hours 32 minutes (personal record for me); block time for DL17 is normally 16:20; captain informed us last night before leaving BOM that planned flight time was going to be 16:22 due to the strong headwinds. Wheels up from BOM was 0136 and we touched down at JFK at 0840 (scheduled arrival was 0755). Due to the weather mess from yesterday, we did not get to our gate at T3 until 0950 and then they couldn't get the jetway properly attached until 1015....And for the record, we were actually quite full - at 44J214Y pax. (i.e., 258 pax.or a 96% load factor)...

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 83):
4 pilots and the DL appropriate number of f/a. Our DEL flights are 4 pilots and 12 cabin crew (using CO as a comparative).

DL also uses 4 pilots and 11-12 FAs (depending on load) on DL16/17. There were 12 FAs on my flight today...


And....as I write this, it looks like DL16 has arrived at the gate at BOM at 11:14pm (about 1 hour behind schedule). Should still be enough time to turn the plane around for the 1:05am departure...
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:17 am

So, now that the Eagle, I mean Widget, has landed, can it be said that this was the longest nonstop scheduled flight DL has operated so far?
 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2771
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 1:34 pm

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:38 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 91):
So, now that the Eagle, I mean Widget, has landed, can it be said that this was the longest nonstop scheduled flight DL has operated so far?

I'm sure. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but I would guess that this was the longest-ever (in terms of distance) flight by a 777-200ER with paying passengers aboard. Pretty cool, and well done by Delta for making the best out of a bad weather situation.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:39 am

and since ATL-BOM is longer than ATL-JNB, this was probably the longest flight ATL has ever had by any airline.

As for the 16 hr limit, DL received permission from the FAA and agreed with ALPA to be able to operate 777 flights longer than 16 hours. That is why DL is able to operate the only US carrier flight that is scheduled for longer than 16 hrs on a scheduled basis and is undoubtedly the reason why DL was confident enough in its working relationship with its pilots that it ordered the 777LR which is capable of 20+ hour flights. Perhaps Panamair can tell us the duty time limits DL and ALPA have agreed to.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4314
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:32 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 93):
That is why DL is able to operate the only US carrier flight that is scheduled for longer than 16 hrs on a scheduled basis and is undoubtedly the reason why DL was confident enough in its working relationship with its pilots that it ordered the 777LR which is capable of 20+ hour flights

Currently, unitl CO's BOM flight is scheduled this fall. Westbound (BOM-EWR) is scheduled 16:15.
You can't cure stupid
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:16 am

my statement is in the present tense and stands.
 
gte439u
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:49 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:25 am

I just got back to CLE after taking the 18 March BOM-JFK flight, DL 17. I think that the exact fligth time was about 16:20, but I am not certain since I had fallen asleep at take off in BOM and failed to check my watch.

I got all my bags, but several of my companions arrived without baggage. I heard someone say on board that they off loaded 250 bags at BOM in order to make the flight non-stop. Is it a common occurrence to leave bags at BOM on DL 17?
 
panamair
Topic Author
Posts: 4134
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta To Go ATL-BOM Nonstop On March 16

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:31 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 93):
Perhaps Panamair can tell us the duty time limits DL and ALPA have agreed to.

Sorry don't have that info for now....

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 94):
Currently, unitl CO's BOM flight is scheduled this fall. Westbound (BOM-EWR) is scheduled 16:15.

Interesting that they would have a block time 5 minutes shorter than DL's BOM-JFK (for the winter) even though EWR is slightly farther than JFK from BOM...and as DL's experience over this past winter has shown, it has often taken longer than even 16:20 of flight time to complete the westbound trip.

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