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padster
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TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:23 pm

According to Sky News

TU134 Down in the Russian city of Samara, 51 Injured, 5 dead...

(edited to add..) UT Air flight 471 SGC to KUF

[Edited 2007-03-17 09:34:18]

[Edited 2007-03-17 09:41:56]
 
Femme
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:44 pm

Just seen this on the BBC news site too - Breaking news


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6461353.stm


Very sad.......
Women don't have hot flushes, they have Power Surges....
 
aeroyu
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:45 pm

I heard the news several minutes ago. What a bad year this year. Hope the 5 unluckily RIP
Kai Tai - I missed you so much
 
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saleya22r
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:56 pm

Quoting http://www.mosnews.com/news/2007/03/17/samara.shtml,

The T134 was making a flight from the Siberian oil city of Surgut. There is no info yet about the company or any other details. The aircraft was said to have made a hard landing and the fuselage broke into parts..
 
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saleya22r
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:10 pm

Accroding to CNN, the plane landed on its fuselage. The airline was said to be UTair.
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:15 pm

So one of these then...


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Photo © Alexandr Zhukov



How sad.  Sad
AY and ANA rock!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:40 pm

Too many this year  Sad
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Robbie86
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:05 pm

Quoting Padster (Thread starter):
5 dead...

7 dead now... RIP
 
EFHK
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:11 pm

Isn't UTair in the EU blacklist? This won't help them with that.

Sad, sad, sad.  Sad
 
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viasa
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:34 pm

Quoting EFHK (Reply 8):
Isn't UTair in the EU blacklist?

No! There is no Russian airline on the EU blacklist. But UTair has a ban to fly to Europe - spoken by the Russian government.
 
EFHK
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:45 pm

Quoting Viasa (Reply 9):
But UTair has a ban to fly to Europe - spoken by the Russian government.

Ok, I mixed them up. Thanks for clarification.
 
flyorski
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:45 pm

Very sad, RIP to all seven.

2007 has not had a great start........

Why did the Russian gov. block UTair from Europe?
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
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scbriml
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:55 pm

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 11):
Why did the Russian gov. block UTair from Europe?

Some speculate that the Russians took the decision before the EU took it for them.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
B707Stu
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:09 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Russia-Plane-Crash.html?hp

Here's an AP article just published in the NY Times.
 
Andrei
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:53 pm

UTAir airlines, registration RA-65021... Sad
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=503232
Good luck!
 
EGBJ
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:57 pm

Aircraft....


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © MilanNN



RIP
 
debonair
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:54 pm

Quoting Viasa (Reply 9):
Quoting EFHK (Reply 8):
Isn't UTair in the EU blacklist?

No! There is no Russian airline on the EU blacklist. But UTair has a ban to fly to Europe - spoken by the Russian government.

well, not true... UTair was yesterday in MUC-operating normal!  airplane 
 
Alessandro
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:41 pm

They had 20 Tu-134 before this accident. Rest in peace to the unfortunate ones.
Company homepage http://www.utair.ru/en/transp/plane_list/item.shtml?item_8
Picture of the planewreck, http://www.expressen.se/polopoly_fs/...otWide75ArticleFull/3447786819.jpg

[Edited 2007-03-17 15:55:33]
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
berlinspotter
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:19 pm

Plane was built back in 1976 and joined UTair not earlier than 2006: http://www.planespotters.net/Product...List/Tupolev/Tu-134/(63)48390.html
 
usair320
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:26 pm

Sad... Atleast it wasnt 51 Dead and 5 Injured..........................
 
OV735
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:32 pm

RIP to those who perished and get-well-soon to those in hospital.

Quite different opinions as to what happened. Some say the plane belly-landed, some say it landed on the gear but the left wing touched the ground, some say it was just a hard landing. Had to be a very hard one, these things are like tanks and don't break easily.

Sad to see a great aircraft go this way.

Regards,
OV735
 
ReverseThrust
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting Viasa (Reply 9):
But UTair has a ban to fly to Europe - spoken by the Russian government.

Interesting that they have a scheduled service from Tyumen to Munich then... flights UT723 / UT724.

I thought they were one of the "better" Russian Airlines....

Very sad news though, RIP to those who didn't survive.
Flown MD11/81/82/83/87/90,B732/733/734/735/737W/738/739/742/752/753,F70/100,A300/319/320/321/332/333/343,TU134A/154M,L10
 
sovietjet
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:08 am

Actually UTair is quite a large airline and is not your typical shady airline, quite reputable IMO. And they are allowed to fly to Europe. Either way, you can't blame the crash on the airline or anything just yet, it hasn't even been a day. Even the best of airlines have crashes. RIP to the victims.
 
CPH-R
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:13 am

According to Danish news, they're banned from flying charters to the EU. Their scheduled operations are apparently a-ok.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:57 am

May all 7 RIP.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
A342
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting Debonair (Reply 16):
well, not true... UTair was yesterday in MUC-operating normal!

Who knows, maybe the ban was already lifted.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
OV735
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 23):
According to Danish news, they're banned from flying charters to the EU. Their scheduled operations are apparently a-ok.

Guess that shows that safety is not the reason for the ban. UTair is one of the largest operators in Russia (along with Aeroflot, Pulkovo, S7), with a good safety record, I dare to guess they wouldn't cut any corners. Or at least not more than the other players in the region.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:28 am

Has anyone ever noticed this......

When a Russian airliner crashes.....western people simply assume (without thinking) that it MUST be the aircraft at fault.
When a Boeing or Airbus crashes.....western people simply assume (without thinking) that it MUST be pilot error.

It's high time we in the west start thinking.

My condolences to those who perished.....and my good advice goes to those quick to condemn russian aviation based on a pre-concieved notion.
 
sandrozrh
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 27):

When a Russian airliner crashes.....western people simply assume (without thinking) that it MUST be the aircraft at fault.
When a Boeing or Airbus crashes.....western people simply assume (without thinking) that it MUST be pilot error.

It's high time we in the west start thinking.

Yes, i have noticed, and i couldnt have said it better.

my thoughts are with those who died and their families and friends.
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:18 am

 Sad Very sad. Any plane crash is one too many. May the seven souls who died be at peace. Get well soon to the injured.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:58 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 27):

When a Russian airliner crashes.....western people simply assume (without thinking) that it MUST be the aircraft at fault.
When a Boeing or Airbus crashes.....western people simply assume (without thinking) that it MUST be pilot error.

It's high time we in the west start thinking.

Thank you, we need more people on this board like you, instead of all the ignorant asses that lurk around here bashing every Russian airline or aircraft.

RIP to the 7 dead. Horrible way to go. UTair is indeed quite a large airline, very well-known, and in a recently-published list is the 4th largest carrier in Russia based on people flown.

Aeroflot777
 
dinya11
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 30):

Absolutely, agree with you.
 
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zeke
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:18 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 27):
When a Russian airliner crashes.....western people simply assume (without thinking) that it MUST be the aircraft at fault.
When a Boeing or Airbus crashes.....western people simply assume (without thinking) that it MUST be pilot error.

It's high time we in the west start thinking.

I would disagree, esp on here.

When a Boeing crashes its is assumed pilot error, when an airbus crashes, its is some convoluted conspiracy that has something to do with FBW etc.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
pilotaydin
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:55 pm

99% of the people that make assumptions on here are either under 21 years old lol, or they've heard something from someone...

it makes me sad when a plane crash post starts off because i can't stand to read some of the stupid things people post, especially since im doing my masters in aviation safety.....

i am not familiar with russian crash investigation processes, and the politics behind it, if any, but it would be interesting to know what the Russians will do about this one, because certain crashes are very hard to figure out.....

sometimes when more people live than die, the enormous confliction in accounts leads to a slower investigation than the crashes when people all die....

RIP
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
EFHK
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:57 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 27):
When a Russian airliner crashes.....western people simply assume (without thinking) that it MUST be the aircraft at fault.
When a Boeing or Airbus crashes.....western people simply assume (without thinking) that it MUST be pilot error.

Who has made that kind of assumption in this topic???
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:03 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 32):
When a Boeing crashes its is assumed pilot error, when an airbus crashes, its is some convoluted conspiracy that has something to do with FBW etc.

I have said this about Habsheim....I will admit it. I challenge you though to point out any other Airbus accident where I made such a claim.

Keen memory there, Zeke.  Smile
 
md80fanatic
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:08 pm

Quoting EFHK (Reply 34):
Who has made that kind of assumption in this topic???

Oddly.....the posts in question seem to be no longer present in this topic. Explanation unknown.
 
Morvious
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:21 pm

The dutch news was reporting the airplane was trying to land in foggy and bad weather!
My question, how good is such an airplane equipped for these kind of circumstances?

You always here about CAT III and CAT II approaches with Airbus and Boeing planes, but never with these Russian jets.


RIP to all those perished!
have a good day,

HereThen
 
OV735
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:51 pm

Quoting Morvious (Reply 37):
The dutch news was reporting the airplane was trying to land in foggy and bad weather!
My question, how good is such an airplane equipped for these kind of circumstances?

Weather at the time of the accident (from ASN):

UWWW 170600Z VRB01MPS 2300 BR SCT015 BKN100 BKN200 01/00Q1008 TEMPO 1200 BR RMK QFE745/0993 23520542 15591032=
UWWW 170700Z 11003MPS 0150 R23/0200 FZFG VV003 M01/M01 Q1008 TEMPO 0500 FZFG RMK QBB090 QFE745/0993 23520542 15591032=

AFAIK, Tu-134's ILS system is certificated for CAT I (older models) or CAT II (newer models). Since this one had been a VIP aircraft 1976-1980 I assume perhaps it was CAT II capable. The accident happened at around 0640Z and as you can see from the met reports above the visibility was rapidly decreasing from 2300 metres to 150 metres.

So add in the suggested gear failure, it could have put a serious pressure on the crew.

Regards,
OV735
 
Morvious
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting OV735 (Reply 38):
Regards,
OV735

Thanks for the information.

Quoting OV735 (Reply 38):
So add in the suggested gear failure, it could have put a serious pressure on the crew.

You could say that!
have a good day,

HereThen
 
sovietjet
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:46 am

Anyone also noticed that after 2 days of the crash and this thread has only gotten 39 replies, whereas everytime a 737 dumps fuel or returns to make an emergency landing the threads go past 100 replies before even a day has gone by.
 
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Coronado990
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 40):
Anyone also noticed that after 2 days of the crash and this thread has only gotten 39 replies, whereas everytime a 737 dumps fuel or returns to make an emergency landing the threads go past 100 replies before even a day has gone by.

A 737 cannot dump fuel. If it ever did, it just might warrant 100 replies.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
David L
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 27):
Has anyone ever noticed this......

When a Russian airliner crashes.....western people simply assume (without thinking) that it MUST be the aircraft at fault.

A few are guilty of that but they're invariably put firmly in their place.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 36):
Oddly.....the posts in question seem to be no longer present in this topic. Explanation unknown.

Explanation bleedin' obvious, I would say.
 
OV735
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:08 am

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 40):
Anyone also noticed that after 2 days of the crash and this thread has only gotten 39 replies, whereas everytime a 737 dumps fuel or returns to make an emergency landing the threads go past 100 replies before even a day has gone by.

The 737 can't dump fuel. Well, I guess it can, but you'd have to open fire at the wing to do that.  duck  Big grin

Nevertheless, you have a good point. I guess it's just that for the general A.net population, a high-tech silicone-stuffed triple-seven offers more excitement than, say, a 30-year-old rust-bucket that many seem to have been taught to think of as inherently unsafe.

But then again, I guess even those old rust buckets have their dedicated fans, sad enough to see another example leave this world, and even worse, take human lives together.

Cheers,
OV735
 
sovietjet
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 41):
A 737 cannot dump fuel. If it ever did, it just might warrant 100 replies.

Well whatever  Smile. You know what I meant.
 
David L
Posts: 8551
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 40):
Anyone also noticed that after 2 days of the crash and this thread has only gotten 39 replies, whereas everytime a 737 dumps fuel or returns to make an emergency landing the threads go past 100 replies before even a day has gone by.

I think depends on location and the availability of information. An accident in the USA, for example, will interest the largest group of A.netters and if there's an A.netter on hand providing good updates, such as with the recent GA crash, the discussion tends to gather more momentum. Misguided comments about non-Western aircraft may be very annoying but they're usually dismissed pretty quickly, in my opinion. Just in case, I'm usually ready with that list of the last 30 or so Tu-134 crashes, none of which indicate a problem with the aircraft.  Smile
 
ChicagoFlyer
Posts: 210
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:39 am

Here's a link to a report in a reputable Russian daily-Izvestiya.
http://www.izvestiya.ru/investigation/article3102164/

Of course any newspaper will always try and claim that its investigation is the best and only way to determine what happened--which often ends up being pure speculation. But at least this report has some statements that sound pretty factual. Let me make some translations:

Facts:
- The airline is a top 5 in Russia: 133 planes (mostly Russian-built), 200 daily flights and 2.5 million passengers transported annually
- The visibility at the time of the accident was minimal: 1/2 mile, and cloud ceiling of only 60 meters
- Plane touched down 150m to the right and 400m in front of the runway
- It made a hop, the wing broke off and the plane ended up sliding back left to the runway
- The plane broke up, but did not have much fuel so the resulting fire was not severe--most pax escaped by themselves, some were helped by the rescuers.
- There were 50 pax and 6 crew. According to the Ministry of Emergency Situations, those 6 who died were seated near the breakup.
- 23 people sustained no injuries, 27 are in local hospitals



Speculation:
- There were some prior MX issues with the plane's glideslope according to the flight engineer (he also states that those issues should not have affected anything)
- Some Russian pilots prefer (illegally) to come in for landing somewhat under the glide path to maximize runway stopping distance.
- The report assumes that the accident pilot did the same and did not follow decision altitude due to not seeing anything
- The pilot supposedly attempted to try to take off at the very last second, but it was too late

UTair denies everything, of course.



More pictures can be found at:
http://www.izvestia.ru/cgi/lenta.cgi?id=556

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Edit: Apparently there were 7 crew and 7 fatalities out of 57 in the plane. One could have been a pilot--you can see the body in one of the linked pictures.

The recorders have been recovered.
http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2007/tu-134_ra-65021.html

[Edited 2007-03-19 20:52:04]
 
David L
Posts: 8551
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 46):
MX issues with the plane's glideslope according to the flight engineer (he also states that those issues should not have affected anything)



Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 46):
the accident pilot did the same and did not follow decision altitude due to not seeing anything

If the landing was in poor visibility, I'd think the ILS instruments on the aircraft would need to be working at least reasonably well. It would be interesting to hear what those alleged issues were.
 
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Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2332
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RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 46):
One could have been a pilot--you can see the body in one of the linked pictures.

The caption says also that "Commander Ivan Korogodin had 9000 hours of flight experience, of which more than 5000 on the Tu-154 (Yes, 154!)."
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
SFO2SVO
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:56 pm

RE: TU134 Down In Samara

Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 46):

More pictures can be found at:
http://www.izvestia.ru/cgi/lenta.cgi...d=556

Thank you for providing Izvestia link, however the one with the pics above is from a different accident: Pulkovo flight from Anapa.
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