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Qazar
Topic Author
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 4:18 am

LH A380 Order

Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:24 pm

LH ordered 15 of the type, but do they hold any options?

Any thoughts on why they haven't increased their order what with Airbus giving away deals to compensate airlines for aircraft delays?
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
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RE: LH A380 Order

Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:31 pm

the don't have options for more. maybe in the future they'll some.

I think the reason is the B747-800 which they also opted for.
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
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RE: LH A380 Order

Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:36 pm

As far as I remember they ordered 15 and took an option for further 15.
 
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Stitch
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RE: LH A380 Order

Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:44 pm

LH has 15 orders and holds 10 options.

With their 20 frame 748I order (of which they also hold 20 options) they may want to stand fast on 15 for the time being.
 
Leskova
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RE: LH A380 Order

Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:16 pm

Quoting Qazar (Thread starter):
Any thoughts on why they haven't increased their order what with Airbus giving away deals to compensate airlines for aircraft delays?

Well, LH did just recently order some new planes from Airbus, so perhaps we've already seen the effects of LH receiving compensation...
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Thorben
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
LH has 15 orders and holds 10 options.

That's the correct number.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
With their 20 frame 748I order (of which they also hold 20 options) they may want to stand fast on 15 for the time being.

Not necessarily. LH has said before that they'll probably have more than the original 15 A380s ordered. However, I doubt they'll take 25 A380 and 40 747-8. Together with 24 A346 and 15 A333 that would be a very large fleet of widebodies.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Robbie86
Posts: 314
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:30 am

Are they expanding their fleet or replacing thir 747-400'? I remember when i flied LH to MAA on a 747-400, and as far as I can tell they need replacing...
 
columba
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:44 am

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 6):
Are they expanding their fleet or replacing thir 747-400'? I remember when i flied LH to MAA on a 747-400, and as far as I can tell they need replacing...

The 747-8I will replace the 747s the A380s are expansion. The A380 will replace the 747-400 on many routes though.

Quoting Qazar (Thread starter):
Any thoughts on why they haven't increased their order what with Airbus giving away deals to compensate airlines for aircraft delays?

LH placed a huge order with Airbus last year for 30 A32x, 5 A330, 7 A346s they will likely got a very good deal.
Air Berlin - gone but not forgotten
 
dutchjet
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:57 am

Quoting Qazar (Thread starter):
Any thoughts on why they haven't increased their order what with Airbus giving away deals to compensate airlines for aircraft delays?

LH probably does not want to commit to additional A380s just yet.....nothing to do with airplane, LH projections likely indicate that it does not yet have the need for more A380s as only certain routes can support A380 operations. Thus, instead of applying whatever compensation that was due to it to more A380s, LH applied the compensation to orders for other Airbus types.

Quoting Columba (Reply 7):



LH placed a huge order with Airbus last year for 30 A32x, 5 A330, 7 A346s they will likely got a very good deal.

Exactly.....the compensation amount was probably incorporated into this order. Note that several airlines have ordered additional Airbus airplanes (particularly the A330) in connection with settling A380 compensation claims with Airbus......and before someone says it, Airbus is not ""giving away"" the A330s to the airlines (thats ridiculous) but Airbus is offering very sharp deals on the extra airframes.
 
A350
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
With their 20 frame 748I order (of which they also hold 20 options) they may want to stand fast on 15 for the time being.

I would like to know if they can use their 20 748-options also for freighters - that would have been a smart move and very usefull since the the A380-freighter is virtually dead.

A350
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting A350 (Reply 9):

I would like to know if they can use their 20 748-options also for freighters - that would have been a smart move and very usefull since the the A380-freighter is virtually dead.

A350

Very interesting point.....I am sure that Boeing would be more than happy to allow LH to use their 748 options for freighters, Boeing would love to confirm another 20 orders for the 748 to LH, regardless of whether the 748s seat pax or haul cargo.
 
GECMD11
Posts: 52
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:46 am

curious myself if some of the options can be 748F? for LH Cargo.....
LH cargo sure could use some 747F again, from what i here from the LHC crews expect a 748F order soon...
but u know crews are not always the best source of info......
 
FL370
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:22 am

what does it mean to have 10firm orders than say have (20 option)??


fl370
 
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Stitch
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting FL370 (Reply 12):
what does it mean to have 10firm orders than say have (20 option)??

It means they have agreed to buy 10 planes and have the option to buy up to 20 more at a similar (if not equal) price for a certain period of time. It may also may include slot allocations (order by X date and you will get your plane on Y date).
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:35 pm

Isnt LH the only airline to order the 747-8 so far ?

Why would LH want both A380 and 747-8 ? surely that 50 odd seat difference makes very little difference in terms of economics of operating 2 types ?
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
columba
Posts: 5252
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:38 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 14):
Isnt LH the only airline to order the 747-8 so far ?

Why would LH want both A380 and 747-8 ? surely that 50 odd seat difference makes very little difference in terms of economics of operating 2 types ?

Yes, so far LH is the only customer for the 747-8I (except 6 VIP aircraft).
LH has ordered the 747-8I because they needed an aircraft to fill the gap between the A380 and the A346.
Air Berlin - gone but not forgotten
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:49 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 14):
Why would LH want both A380 and 747-8 ? surely that 50 odd seat difference makes very little difference in terms of economics of operating 2 types ?

IIRC the gap is something like 100 seats (748= ~430, A380= ~550).
also, given that the remaining days of the 744 in the LH fleet seem numbered, there would be a gap between the A346 and the A380, and that is quite considerable.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:54 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 15):
Yes, so far LH is the only customer for the 747-8I (except 6 VIP aircraft).

I think it's 4 VIP 748s at the moment.
 
hz747300
Posts: 2420
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:11 pm

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 16):
IIRC the gap is something like 100 seats (748= ~430, A380= ~550).
also, given that the remaining days of the 744 in the LH fleet seem numbered, there would be a gap between the A346 and the A380, and that is quite considerable.

Those are manufacturer seat numbers, in operation generally airlines have fewer seats. most airlines are using the bigger planes to improve their product which requires more room. LH is probably still going to improve its product with the bigger planes, but it will still not have PTVs in coach.
Keep on truckin'...
 
DALCE
Posts: 2017
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 18):
Those are manufacturer seat numbers, in operation generally airlines have fewer seats. most airlines are using the bigger planes to improve their product which requires more room. LH is probably still going to improve its product with the bigger planes, but it will still not have PTVs in coach.

wow, a new record...

it took 19 replies untill the LH-PTV issue pops up.
LH will implement a new economy product when LH start operating the A380. This will include PTV's.


edited due spelling ( 2x )

[Edited 2007-03-19 11:43:04]

[Edited 2007-03-19 11:43:34]
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solnabo
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RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:38 pm

Is it the 346HGW LH ordered last year?

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Stitch
Posts: 27552
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:22 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 14):
Why would LH want both A380 and 747-8 ? surely that 50 odd seat difference makes very little difference in terms of economics of operating 2 types?

The 747 may fit better into some airport operations then the A388. It also gives LH more flexibility in terms of fleet planning and scheduling with the A388, 748 and A346 instead of just the A388 and A346.

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 20):
Is it the 346HGW LH ordered last year?

I believe Airbus is only offering the HGW variants of the A345 and A346 for sale.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:35 pm

From what I'm GUESSING is that the A380 gets to the slightly lower yield routes where as the 748I goes to the higher-yield routes because from what I have heard/read on various places (consider it rumors) is that the 748 will have more F Class seats and possibly an equal number of C class seats.

SailorOrion
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:49 pm

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 18):
Those are manufacturer seat numbers, in operation generally airlines have fewer seats.

as a matter of fact, LH is indeed considering a seat number in the lower 400s for its 748 configuration. also, though LH might have a very different A380 configuration compared to what Airbus advertises, their seat count so far comes pretty close to those 550 seats I mentioned.

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 18):
LH is probably still going to improve its product with the bigger planes, but it will still not have PTVs in coach.

the last part of the sentence is quite wrong. LH will introduce a new First Class product once the A380 arrives. the cabin upgrades will also feature a major facelift to the Economcy Class, including PTVs. there has not been a dedicated announcement of this, but this is very much in the works.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
EI321
Posts: 5070
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: LH A380 Order

Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:01 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 14):
Why would LH want both A380 and 747-8 ? surely that 50 odd seat difference makes very little difference in terms of economics of operating 2 types ?

The difference is 150 seats in the real world. LH will have 400 on the 747 and 550 approx on the A380.

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 20):
Is it the 346HGW LH ordered last year?

As far as I know, all A340-600s are for the HGW version from now on.

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