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a380us
Topic Author
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JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:59 am

Hi I was wondering on average how many revenue passengers travel from JFK-NRT in business class.
if you could also give numbers by day or season that would be great

currently the flights are as follows
ANA 2x 777-300ER = 154 Business
AA 1x 772-200ER = 45 Business
NW 1x? 747-400 = 65 Business
JAL 2x 747-400 = 198

also JL is to soon start a third daily flight

and please add if there are any that i missed

thanks so much
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fxramper
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting A380US (Thread starter):
NW 1x? 747-400 = 65 Business

I think NW dropped the JFK flight. They only operate MSP, DTW, and LAX.  confused 

(Maybe SEA?)
 
FoxBravo
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:08 am

As far as I know, NH flies only once daily. Also, NW has suspended JFK-NRT, but they continue to codeshare on CO's daily EWR-NRT flight.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
FoxBravo
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:12 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 1):
(Maybe SEA?)

Yes, as well as SFO, PDX, HNL, etc.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
a380us
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:12 am

since when did NW drop it because i used to see the 747's there
and they werent going to DTW
also how many flights a day does CO have ?
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rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:13 am

As far as I know...

Quoting A380US (Thread starter):
ANA 2x 777-300ER = 154 Business

ANA operates 1X 777-300ER

Quoting A380US (Thread starter):
NW 1x? 747-400 = 65 Business

NW and UA no longer operate JFK-NRT.

Quoting A380US (Thread starter):
JAL 2x 747-400 = 198

JAL doesn't operate 2X daily...It's 1X daily JFK-NRT and a NRT-JFK-GRU-JFK-NRT that I believe operates 3X a week. They are adding capacity in the coming months as United and Northwest have exited this lucrative market.

Also, don't forget CO EWR-NRT.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
a380us
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:17 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 5):
JAL doesn't operate 2X daily...It's 1X daily JFK-NRT and a NRT-JFK-GRU-JFK-NRT that I believe operates 3X a week. They are adding capacity in the coming months as United and Northwest have exited this lucrative market.

arent they going to ad another daily flight soon?
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dutchjet
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting A380US (Reply 4):
also how many flights a day does CO have ?

One daily flight, 772ER, 48J +235Y
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:28 am

Quoting A380US (Reply 4):
since when did NW drop it because i used to see the 747's there

Northwest dropped their JFK-NRT-JFK flight in late 2005 but is expected to use their 787 to re-start the route. Northwest used to base 2 747-400s at the airport which is why there was usually one on the ground parked on a remote stand at Terminal 4. The 2 747-400s are now based at LAX I believe.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 5):
UA no longer operate JFK-NRT

As mentioned United did operate JFK-NRT-JFK but dropped it in October along with their LHR flights and moved the flight down to IAD.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 5):
ANA operates 1X 777-300ER

Correct. ANA operates 1xdaily 777-300ER which used to be a 747-400.

ANA 1xdaily 777-300ER = 154 seats
American 1xdaily 777-200 = 45 seats
Continental (EWR) 1xdaily = 30 seats
JAL 1xdaily = 99 seats
JAL 3xweekly = 99 seats
No Vueling No Party
 
RoyalAtlantis
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:30 am

I've tried to book the AA flight on numerous occassions and could not because C was absolutely over-sold. Correct me anyone if I'm wrong, but that flight seems to be consistently full in C and F. I would imagine NW couldn't generate enough traffic as they could on other routes and have few connection opportunities through JFK. Also NW has a crap WBC product...not that AA is that great. ANA's product is great as is JL's...I stay with OW...so JL or AA is my choice.
 
laremiller
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 1):
I think NW dropped the JFK flight. They only operate MSP, DTW, and LAX.

NW also flies PDX-NRT and SEA-NRT.
 
a380us
Topic Author
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:31 am

so does any one know how many daily revenues there are on these airlines in business?
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dutchjet
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 8):
ANA 1xdaily 777-300ER = 154 seats

154 biz seats on one 773ER?

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 8):
Continental (EWR) 1xdaily = 30 seats

CO has 48 bizfirst seats on its 772ERs.
 
JDAirCEO
Posts: 233
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:34 am

AA 777's are

16 First
35 Business
194 Coach

Not 45 in Business.
An MD-80 is great... in first class
 
a380us
Topic Author
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:42 am

thank you
sorry i didnt realize
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fxramper
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12):
154 biz seats on one 773ER?

Agreed. What the deuce?  bouncy 

Quoting A380US (Reply 14):
sorry i didnt realize

Don't apologize. This site is for getting answers.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting RoyalAtlantis (Reply 9):
I would imagine NW couldn't generate enough traffic as they could on other routes and have few connection opportunities through JFK.

Don't forget that NW had a hub at NRT to feed it, which AA and CO lack. That being said, when NW dropped the route it was reportedly because of the high fuel costs of the 744 on the route...It has been mentioned that NW might return on JFK-NRT with the 787 someday.

Quoting A380US (Reply 6):
arent they going to ad another daily flight soon?

They are adding service...I'm not sure if it is an extra daily flight though, it might be a few extra weekly flights.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
a380us
Topic Author
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:56 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 15):
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12):
154 biz seats on one 773ER?

Agreed. What the deuce? bouncy

no its 154 when theyr were two flights meaning 77 business
although i dont think it would be hard to fill 154 seats to tokyo daily
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 16):
They are adding service...I'm not sure if it is an extra daily flight though, it might be a few extra weekly flights.

I believe JAL is going up to 13xweekly which is normal for the summer season or at least they did the same last summer.
No Vueling No Party
 
dutchjet
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:00 am

So, lets try again....biz class seats in the NYC-Tokyo market on a daily basis:

ANA 1X773ER = 77 seats
AA 1X772ER = 35 seats
JAL 1X744 daily = 99 seats
JAL 1X744 (3Xper week) = 99 seats
CO 1X772ER = 48 seats


regards.....
 
a380us
Topic Author
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):
So, lets try again....biz class seats in the NYC-Tokyo market on a daily basis:

ANA 1X773ER = 77 seats
AA 1X772ER = 35 seats
JAL 1X744 daily = 99 seats
JAL 1X744 (3Xper week) = 99 seats
CO 1X772ER = 48 seats

so weekly its

539 for ANA
245 for AA
990 for JAL
336 for CO
= 2110 or an average of 301 a day
plus any connecting

so how many perday are revenue and whats the busiest day
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willyj
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:04 am

RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):
ANA 1X773ER = 77 seats
AA 1X772ER = 35 seats
JAL 1X744 daily = 99 seats
JAL 1X744 (3Xper week) = 99 seats
CO 1X772ER = 48 seats

For a grand total of 2110 Business Class seats per week between NYC and Tokyo... in only 20 posts!

In regards to your actual question, I'm not sure anyone here would know how many actual revenue passengers fly Business between the two cities on a given day. Anyone?
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 19):
JAL 1X744 (3Xper week) = 99 seats

A decent amount of these are GRU passengers continuing on to NRT though.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
a380us
Topic Author
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:57 am

that still counts considering there flying through JFK

is there really such a big market to fly this route?
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rolo987
Posts: 240
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:01 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 22):
A decent amount of these are GRU passengers continuing on to NRT though.

On an unrelated note, do these passengers need a visa to transit in JFK?
 
JAL777
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting Willyj (Reply 21):
In regards to your actual question, I'm not sure anyone here would know how many actual revenue passengers fly Business between the two cities on a given day. Anyone?

Lots! JAL and AA's friday service from Tokyo to New York is usually sold out weeks in advance with all the business people returning home.
 
rjpieces
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting A380US (Reply 23):
that still counts considering there flying through JFK

Except it complicates trying to calculate the number of business class passengers flying JFK-NRT on any day, although it is easy to calculate the number of available seats.

I'd be curious to know if JL blocks off a certain number of seats on the JFK-NRT leg of GRU-JFK-NRT for passengers originating in South America...

Quoting A380US (Reply 23):
is there really such a big market to fly this route?

JFK or GRU?

New York City and Tokyo are two of the financial capitals of the world so there is naturally lots of business traffic on that route.

Sao Paulo is home to a rather large Japanese diaspora community, hence the service to Japan. I believe that Varig even flew GRU-LAX-NRT at one point.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting A380US (Reply 23):
is there really such a big market to fly this route?

For more information, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Brazilians
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
phishphan70
Posts: 223
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:35 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 16):
Don't forget that NW had a hub at NRT to feed it

i believe they still do.
 
spacecadet
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:52 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 26):
New York City and Tokyo are two of the financial capitals of the world so there is naturally lots of business traffic on that route.

Which begs the question of why the two Japanese airlines have figured this out but the US airlines haven't. Both ANA and JAL have their planes configured for many more business class passengers than CO and AA - literally the majority of the plane. And at least when I've flown, they've been mostly or completely full.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
jfk777
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:22 pm

Before 9/11 Delta had an MD-11 from JFK to NRT as well as NW's 744 and UA's then 744. ANA and JAL each had another 744. That was 4 744's daily and an MD-11, JAL's flight to Brazil was via LAX at the time. Continental also had then as they do now an EWR to NRT 777.
 
bsbisland
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:24 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 26):
Sao Paulo is home to a rather large Japanese diaspora community, hence the service to Japan. I believe that Varig even flew GRU-LAX-NRT at one point.

Varig flew to NRT and NGO for about 40 years. They dropped the route last year (or 2005). There are over a million Japanese descendents in Sao Paulo. But what I have seen is that JAL usually offers the lowest fares on GRU-JFK and compete with AA, JJ, DL and CO on the route. I have no idea how much business pax go all the way to NRT. I believe JL has a pretty solid market in Brazil as they have been operating the route for a few decades.
 
rjpieces
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 29):
Which begs the question of why the two Japanese airlines have figured this out but the US airlines haven't. Both ANA and JAL have their planes configured for many more business class passengers than CO and AA - literally the majority of the plane.

Well I'm not familiar with ANA and JAL's product offerings, but US airlines have tried to tailor their aircraft and classes. I'm sure there are certain routes like EWR-NRT, EWR-HKG,EWR-TLV where CO would love to have some more premium seats but it makes more sense to have one fleet with the same layout...And don't forget that CO doesn't have the largest 777 fleet (18 I think), so it's even more difficult to have dedicated planes on certain routes...It's all about finding the right balance, which I'm sure CO and AA have thought a lot about when planning their fleets.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting A380US (Reply 17):
Don't forget that NW had a hub at NRT to feed it, which AA and CO lack. That being said, when NW dropped the route it was reportedly because of the high fuel costs of the 744 on the route...It has been mentioned that NW might return on JFK-NRT with the 787 someday.

I think NW needed the NRT slots for somewhere else so they had to make room. JFK while a big market is not big for NW.

Wasn't NW also flying ORD-NRT once upon a time?
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 30):
Before 9/11 Delta had an MD-11 from JFK to NRT as well as NW's 744 and UA's then 744. ANA and JAL each had another 744. That was 4 744's daily and an MD-11, JAL's flight to Brazil was via LAX at the time. Continental also had then as they do now an EWR to NRT 777.

I believe the JFK-NRT route actually continued onto HKG, which would make the routing JFK-NRT-HKG-NRT-JFK.

I was not aware of the Delta JFK-NRT MD-11 flight but I do know of their LAX-NRT flight which was operated by an MD-11.
No Vueling No Party
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 33):
Wasn't NW also flying ORD-NRT once upon a time?

Once upon a time, yes, NW flight 3 flew IAD-ORD-Tokyo with a 747.....in earlier days the flight stopped at ANC enroute from ORD to Tokyo. At that time, there was also NW flight 7 which flew JFK-SEA-Tokyo, all other Tokyo bound NW flights routed via Honolulu.

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 33):
think NW needed the NRT slots for somewhere else so they had to make room. JFK while a big market is not big for NW

The NW flight had many issues......first, it utilized two valuable 744s to run the service, with one aircraft on the ground for 20+ hours per day at JFK (using the NW airplane on the KL/NW JFK-AMS service was attempted but that also did not work out very well and resulted in lots of delays and operational problems for both flights); second, the yeilds on the NW service were all wrong with lots of tourists on group fares and not enough business traffic; third, dont forget that NW was (and still is) under the protection of the bankruptcy court when this decision was made, NW needed to cut costs, retire aircraft, and streamline its operation. NW made the business decision to get out of the highly competitve NYC-Tokyo route.......many are convinced that NW will return to this route once the 787s are delivered, I am not convinced, especially if DL decides to fly JFK-NRT out of its growing JFK international gateway.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 34):
I believe the JFK-NRT route actually continued onto HKG, which would make the routing JFK-NRT-HKG-NRT-JFK.

Correct, but i am not sure if the same aircraft flew the entire route.....there may have been a change of aircraft at NRT during some periods on some days.
 
a380us
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:55 am

RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:12 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 34):
I believe the JFK-NRT route actually continued onto HKG, which would make the routing JFK-NRT-HKG-NRT-JFK.

first of all why would they do that that takes up two different slots is it really worth it.

next why didn't they continue it

and last CANT ANY ONE ANSWER MY QUESTION.
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rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 34):
I believe the JFK-NRT route actually continued onto HKG, which would make the routing JFK-NRT-HKG-NRT-JFK.

That was the United flight, right? Flight 805 or something like that I think...

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 34):
I was not aware of the Delta JFK-NRT MD-11 flight but I do know of their LAX-NRT flight which was operated by an MD-11.

It was shirtlived, along with Delta's JFK-TLV and JFK-CAI-DXB service...
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
a380us
Topic Author
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:55 am

RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 37):
That was the United flight, right? Flight 805 or something like that I think...

dont they also fly NRT-SGN ?
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JAFA
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:31 pm

RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 35):
NW made the business decision to get out of the highly competitve NYC-Tokyo route.......many are convinced that NW will return to this route once the 787s are delivered, I am not convinced, especially if DL decides to fly JFK-NRT out of its growing JFK international gateway.

NWA has said from the time they discountinued the route that it will return with the arrival of the 787. This has been communicated in internal and external publications as recent as late last year.

The 787 is a better fit for this route. If NW had a smaller aircraft than the 747-400 that coud fly the route nonstop it probably would still be operating today.

Since UA has dropped out of the market I think its even more likely that NW will operate JFK-NRT again.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2620
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RE: JFK-NRT Business Class

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting A380US (Reply 36):
and last CANT ANY ONE ANSWER MY QUESTION.

NW operates a small hub out of NRT. Hence JFK-NRT-HKG as Flight 17. Though most of the time it was a change of planes, as the NRT-HKG would be usually on a 742.
Yes, NW flies NRT-SPN, which is a 742 at the moment and in the fall it will be on an A333.

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