cle757
Topic Author
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Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:31 am

Anyone know if DL is dropping CVG-HNL?...It seems like CVG is getting smaller and smaller...CLE may pass them up in ASM's.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
Evan767
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:41 am

I haven't heard anything about it. Though, September 6 SFO-HNL will get the axe.  down 
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
jbmitt
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:45 am

no. The flight isn't daily, it operates on days 2,5,7 according to the schedule so Tuesday, Friday, Sunday. Keep in mind that CVG gains the seasonal ANC, AMS, FCO flights. FCO will be on a 764, so there are now two flights on the Delta's largest capacity jet.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:45 am

DL was flying CVG-HNL nonstop??
 
IADLHR
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:46 am

There was another thread going here, cant remember which one, where someone said it was being axed. If I rememerb correctly, it was sooner rather than later.
 
Evan767
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:47 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 3):
DL was flying CVG-HNL nonstop??

For at least 3-4 years now.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
panamair
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 1):
Though, September 6 SFO-HNL will get the axe.

Seems to be coming back starting 10/1? Or is it because they haven't zeroed it out this far in advance yet?
 
panamair
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:53 am

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 2):
no. The flight isn't daily, it operates on days 2,5,7 according to the schedule so Tuesday, Friday, Sunday

Although so far it looks like it will be gone after Aug 19.
 
rwsea
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting CLE757 (Thread starter):
Anyone know if DL is dropping CVG-HNL?...It seems like CVG is getting smaller and smaller...CLE may pass them up in ASM's.

DL has been dropping service to Hawaii left and right, but all gateways have been affected (SLC and ATL included). I don't think that this is so much a situation of "more cuts from CVG", but rather, DL wanting to use the 764s for more profitable international flying. A valuable plane like that just has more potential flying long-haul than on routes like ATL-OGG, SLC-KOA, or CVG-HNL.

I don't think CVG has a ton to worry about unless all of the TATL flights get dropped, and the transcons are reduced further. This represents a shift in DL's Hawaii strategy - nothing more, nothing less.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:34 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
. A valuable plane like that just has more potential flying long-haul than on routes like ATL-OGG, SLC-KOA, or CVG-HNL

At least for the SLC-Hawaii markets, the new ex-TWA 757s could easily fly these sectors, no?
 
atlaaron
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:48 am

Seems like more traffic is being ceded to UA. UA owns the islands.
 
Evan767
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 6):
Seems to be coming back starting 10/1? Or is it because they haven't zeroed it out this far in advance yet?

Hmm, maybe it is coming back. We shall see.

At least I've gotten my worth out of DL's Hawaii flights. I've flown:
CVG-HNL-CVG
LAX-HNL-SFO
LAX-OGG-LAX
SLC-KOA-SLC-ATL
I am happy!
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
SansVGs
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:26 am

I love the CVG HNL flight. It was a 764 when I rode it. What will they use for AMS? And will it be weekley?
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
 
skibum9
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:03 am

CVG - AMS will operate on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, using a 763. CVG - FCO will operate Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, using a 764. However, if they DL could figure out how, I am sure they would love to replace these flights out of CVG with RJs.
Tailwinds!!!
 
HnlBoi
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:06 am

If im not mistaken I believe the CVG-HNL is discountiued as early as June. Funny that this post came up, i was acutally trying to book a flight to CVG 2 days ago on Delta.com and I knew they had direct from HNL. The only results that were coming up were flights via ATL, SLC, etc.
 
HnlBoi
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 11):

Evan767 I always wondered, are you FA or was a FA with DL? Just curious.
 
SansVGs
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:54 am

Maybe CO can put a 76 on CLE HNL--then everyone from Columbus can drive up there for our non-stops to HNL.
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:28 pm

Quoting SansVGs (Reply 16):
Maybe CO can put a 76 on CLE HNL--then everyone from Columbus can drive up there for our non-stops to HNL.

CO is just as limited on widebody capacity as Delta is, so they sure as hell won't waste a precious 767 on a CLE-HNL.

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 13):
However, if they DL could figure out how, I am sure they would love to replace these flights out of CVG with RJs.

Wow, that's sooo funny...

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 9):
At least for the SLC-Hawaii markets, the new ex-TWA 757s could easily fly these sectors, no?

Without problems, but it appears the priority use for the planes will be thin Euro routes, or larger routes during off-season.
 
cle757
Topic Author
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 17):
CO is just as limited on widebody capacity as Delta is, so they sure as hell won't waste a precious 767 on a CLE-HNL.

Why?...they send them on EWR-HNL,LAX-HNL, and IAH-HNL..why not CLE-HNL?...we have the traffic to support it.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 18):
Why?...they send them on EWR-HNL,LAX-HNL, and IAH-HNL..why not CLE-HNL?...we have the traffic to support it.

Key difference being that those routes have all been established for many years already. CLE-HNL would be a new route. Now if you were CO, you are short widebodies and what to launch a new route with the plane you still have available, and you have the choice between EWR-ATH or CLE-HNL, which would you choose? The answer is pretty obvious.
 
sw733
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 17):
Wow, that's sooo funny...

It really is
 
cle757
Topic Author
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 19):
Key difference being that those routes have all been established for many years already. CLE-HNL would be a new route. Now if you were CO, you are short widebodies and what to launch a new route with the plane you still have available, and you have the choice between EWR-ATH or CLE-HNL, which would you choose? The answer is pretty obvious.

True, I know CO is short of widebodys. But CLE-HNL would work with a 767, maybe once the 787's come in.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
VgnAtl747
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:06 pm

When I worked for OH we would go to CVG for week long classes. Normally we were flown back home for the weekends, but I knew people that would hop on the direct HNL/LAS/SFO flights out of CVG and go out there for the weekends between classes. They certainly used to appreciate those flights...

Quoting HnlBoi (Reply 15):
Evan767 I always wondered, are you FA or was a FA with DL? Just curious.

Doubt it... his profile says he's 13-15...
Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
 
COEI2007
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 18):
Why?...they send them on EWR-HNL,LAX-HNL, and IAH-HNL..why not CLE-HNL?...we have the traffic to support it.



Quoting CLE757 (Reply 21):
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 19):
Key difference being that those routes have all been established for many years already. CLE-HNL would be a new route. Now if you were CO, you are short widebodies and what to launch a new route with the plane you still have available, and you have the choice between EWR-ATH or CLE-HNL, which would you choose? The answer is pretty obvious.

True, I know CO is short of widebodys. But CLE-HNL would work with a 767, maybe once the 787's come in.

I cant see CLE-HNL even with the 78's. HNL routes arent all that profitable in the first place, but keep keep frequent fliers happy, as they can use there miles to fly there.
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 23):
HNL routes arent all that profitable in the first place, but keep keep frequent fliers happy, as they can use there miles to fly there.

Not True. Airlines make money on Hawai'i, pretty much all of the time. Remember Crandall's famous quote that he, "would rather start another route to Hawai'i than to an untested market," because Hawai'i always makes you at the least some money. I paraphrased a little but you get the drift.

Post 9/11 especially, UA, AA, DL, CO, NW, TZ, HA all have significantly increased their Hawai'i flights. Would they if they were consistent money losers? The fares on Hawai'i flights are higher than transcons, but the flights are of similar length...plus, the flights are always packed. Currently, some airlines are cutting back a bit on Hawai'i for more profitable international routes, but I am telling you that airlines DO make money out here.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:45 am

CVGHNL is daily for the summer and then it is not available after Aug 19…..

DL does need its widebodies for more int’l flying but they also are looking at what it takes to get its revenue up to comparable levels with other carriers. Flying 280 seat 764s on 4500 mile flights to Hawaii during the fall does nothing to help DL with its industry RASM comparisons.

I expect you will see some 757s used to help DL replace some of its Hawaii flying but whether that happens by winter of 07-08 remains to be seen. Although the ex-TW 757s will be at DL, they won’t come as ETOPS aircraft so DL will have to certify them as ETOPS a/c before they can be used to fly to Hawaii. It does make sense for DL use the 757s to Hawaii beginning in the winter; although some could be used as replacements for 767s during the slower European winter season, either the Hawaii or Europe role requires ETOPS, although Europe could be done without 180 minute ETOPS while Hawaii must have it.

It may well be that what looks like DL is pulling down an aweful of capacity to Hawaii after the summer is because they aren’t willing to commit to adding a bunch of flights from the west coast until they know that the 757s will be ready for service by then. Clearly, though, DL will be changing its Hawaii strategy both because it needs the 767s for int’l routes, because 757s will be available to do some flying from the west coast, and because SLC and LAX are being grown larger and larger so that lots of East Coast flying is increasingly unnecessary in order for DL to offer competitive single connection schedules to Hawaii. Yes, SLC is well within the range of 757s to Hawaii.
 
Cory6188
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 24):
Post 9/11 especially, UA, AA, DL, CO, NW, TZ, HA all have significantly increased their Hawai'i flights. Would they if they were consistent money losers? The fares on Hawai'i flights are higher than transcons, but the flights are of similar length...plus, the flights are always packed. Currently, some airlines are cutting back a bit on Hawai'i for more profitable international routes, but I am telling you that airlines DO make money out here.

No doubt. A flight from EWR-LAX roundtrip might only be in the neighborhood of $350 or so, but a flight from LAX-HNL roundtrip is much more likely to be around $500, if not more.
 
COEI2007
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 24):
Post 9/11 especially, UA, AA, DL, CO, NW, TZ, HA all have significantly increased their Hawai'i flights. Would they if they were consistent money losers? The fares on Hawai'i flights are higher than transcons, but the flights are of similar length...plus, the flights are always packed. Currently, some airlines are cutting back a bit on Hawai'i for more profitable international routes, but I am telling you that airlines DO make money out here.

,

Hasnt DL just reduced the number of flights to Hawaii???
Yeah, but the a/c needed for East Coast to HNL, could be flown more profitably to Europe or Asia.

[Edited 2007-03-22 19:11:24]
 
Evan767
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting HnlBoi (Reply 15):
Evan767 I always wondered, are you FA or was a FA with DL? Just curious.

Haha, nah. Check my profile. 13-15 years old.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:12 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 17):
Without problems, but it appears the priority use for the planes will be thin Euro routes, or larger routes during off-season.

Once these 752s are ETOPs rated for 180 minutes. Keep in mind JFK/BOS to Europe takes you up over Greenland and Iceland, whereas Hawaii from California is open Pacific water for nearly the same distance.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 25):
Clearly, though, DL will be changing its Hawaii strategy both because it needs the 767s for int'l routes, because 757s will be available to do some flying from the west coast, and because SLC and LAX are being grown larger and larger so that lots of East Coast flying is increasingly unnecessary in order for DL to offer competitive single connection schedules to Hawaii. Yes, SLC is well within the range of 757s to Hawaii.

SLC might well be within the range physically of a 180 minute ETOPs rated 752, BUT is it really a good yield for DL to continue to have direct SLC-Hawaii service? I've heard many of my sources at DL talk seriously about routing all SLC-Hawaii service as 1 stop via LAX, SAN or SFO in the future as they re-configure island routes. Many people going from the east can connect via LAX since it will likely have flights to all of the large DL hubs like CVG, ATL & JFK and focus operations like BOS, so it will be better to put flights to OGG and KOA through there. This is how Hawaii was for SLC prior to 2002 when direct flights began to be offered to HNL. I would even have 752 service direct from SAN to HNL before attempting to offer it again from SLC if I worked this over for DL.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
sq452
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RE: Did DL Axe CVG-HNL?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:03 pm

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 13):
CVG - AMS will operate on Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, using a 763. CVG - FCO will operate Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, using a 764. However, if they DL could figure out how, I am sure they would love to replace these flights out of CVG with RJs.

haha, very true! good one! that was funny. You definitely know if comair could fly the CR7 that far that Delta would so put it on a route to Europe given how CVG is becoming a haven for regional jet flights.  Smile

[Edited 2007-03-23 13:03:42]
SIN > CVG > BOS

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