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aussiestu
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:43 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 38):
The real passenger flies TCX/MON/FCA/XLA/MYT/TOM

Thats a joke right  cheeky  Big grin  Wink
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:48 pm

My  twocents 

LHR-BOS
LHR-JFK, although to make this work it needs to be at least a twice daily flight to look half attractive to O&D and Star connections etc.

I dont for one moment think they will fly LHR-DEN, as UA will have a hissy fit, UA IMHO will get back a leased slot and open that route up themself.
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:58 pm

I very highly doubt they would operate LHR-JFK, just as I very highly doubt they would drop MAN-ORD.

I wonder if they could sign a codeshare agreement with US Airways and fly a daily LHR-PHL with onward connections throughout the US with one aircraft and a 4x weekly to PHX and 3x weekly to LAS with another.

Or they might come to some sort of revenue sharing deal with UA and operate some LHR-IAD and ORD flights.

They might also throw a Joker in the pack and decide to go for an untapped market such as SAN.

I think they have to be careful not to try to expand too quickly though. Bd should let the others fight it out and choose their moment very carefully.
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steeler83
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 52):
I wonder if they could sign a codeshare agreement with US Airways and fly a daily LHR-PHL with onward connections throughout the US with one aircraft and a 4x weekly to PHX and 3x weekly to LAS with another.

I wonder if US would still want to do PHX-LHR with an A340, considering they even acquire the aircraft from Air Canada, if BMI was to do that.

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 52):
They might also throw a Joker in the pack and decide to go for an untapped market such as SAN.

Make it two jokers and throw in PIT into the mix  spin  stirthepot  I believe that is another untapped market; no transatlantic service what soever. It would be a shot in the arm for a region that is trying to redefine itself. I have heard that landing fees are much lower than they were a few years ago, and US is bringing back some lost service. In the summer, the list of daily departures goes back to 150 flights roughly. 4 new flights to SEA, SFO, LAX, and SAN, plus some regional flights returning via Colgan Air. I am sure that at the very least Summer service to LHR would work, if not weekly...
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STT757
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:01 pm

Here's my list:

Newark (larger Star Presence than JFK)
Las Vegas
Los Angeles
Chicago
Washington Dulles
Miami
San Francisco
Seattle
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
jfk777
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:03 pm

BMI will be the most surprising new LHR airline to the USA, it has so many slots it could fly to any city as often as it wishes. BMI should buy the Air Canada A333 fleet, with its RR engines they would fit nicely with BMI's A330-200. With so many possibilities of cities to serve, BMI should go for the biggest, JFK, then go to UA's hubs which themselves are among the four biggest LHR gateways already. Miami would also be good for BMI, I can't wait to see what these guys do.
 
steeler83
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:20 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 55):
With so many possibilities of cities to serve, BMI should go for the biggest, JFK



Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 52):
I very highly doubt they would operate LHR-JFK, just as I very highly doubt they would drop MAN-ORD.

Yeah, I am not sure why so many are thinking JFK. I keep thinking, "isn't LHR-JFK saturated as it is? BA and AA must have well over a dozen daily flights between the two, using many 747s (BA) and 777s (both AA and BA). I thought they already served ORD from LHR, but I guess that is only from MAN, as I believe LAS has BMI service to MAN, according to BMI's website anyway...

According to the site, BMI's main hub is LHR, and I guess Manchester is their other hub. I suppose that with Bermuda2, BMI cannot fly to the US at all from LHR; they can only fly to the EU nations and elsewhere...

I wish BMI had more aircraft. Are they in a position to expand their transatlantic-widebody fleet at all?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 52):
I very highly doubt they would operate LHR-JFK, just as I very highly doubt they would drop MAN-ORD.

they've been on record for years that they wanted to start LHR-JFK.....so I have to disagree with you there..but as I mentioned above, I doubt they will drop MAN-ORD..its a good money maker for them..

..at least we agree 50:50.... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:23 am

LHR-MCO----I know, I know, VS and BA offer routes but not from LHR only from LGW.
LHR-PHL
LHR-RDU
LHR-DET

I don't think they are going to go for places like LAX, SFO, IAD, JFK, MIA, etc. Because places like said are already served by MAJOR international airlines like BA and VS.

I hope they do the LHR-MCO, instead of having it from LGW.
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 57):
they've been on record for years that they wanted to start LHR-JFK.....so I have to disagree with you there..but as I mentioned above, I doubt they will drop MAN-ORD..its a good money maker for them..

..at least we agree 50:50....

Well logic suggests that to make JFK work you need multiple frequencies (wasn't this UAs problem?) BD do not look like being in the position to provide more than 1 (maybe 2) daily frequencies on a route which is why I think that they should focus on untapped markets rather than getting into a major blood bath.

Maybe they will attempt JFK nobody knows. I suppose it depends on what their fleet plans are which I think is an altogether more interesting story yet to be told.
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steeler83
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 59):
Well logic suggests that to make JFK work you need multiple frequencies (wasn't this UAs problem?) BD do not look like being in the position to provide more than 1 (maybe 2) daily frequencies on a route which is why I think that they should focus on untapped markets rather than getting into a major blood bath.

Regarding your statement here, could we rule out PHL, BOS, IAD, ORD, etc... providing that there are quite a few frequencies into these markets already?

I guess markets like SAN, and perhaps LAS, CLT, and PIT would be good untapped markets. I am not sure if BA already serves CLT, but being that it is a big US hub, that should look pretty attractive to BMI, as should LAS...

With only a few A330-200s, they really do not have the equipment to do several daily flights where they would compete heavily with airlines like UA, AA, VS, and BA.

Sure, they still could make a push for JFK, PHL or ORD, but I cannot say that success is guaranteed there...

I'm not sure, but all of a sudden, a possible acquisition of BD by VS would probably seem fairly likely, if not imminent. That also seems rather logical to happen as well. I don't know what kind of position BMI is in regarding fleet expansion. Can they afford to lease large aircraft at least?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:04 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 59):

Well logic suggests that to make JFK work you need multiple frequencies (wasn't this UAs problem?) BD do not look like being in the position to provide more than 1 (maybe 2) daily frequencies on a route which is why I think that they should focus on untapped markets rather than getting into a major blood bath.

...hey, in theory, I absolutely agree with you....but part of UA's problem was that UA isn't strong on either side of the pond on the JFK-LHR route...with BD having the 2nd most slots at LHR and having a decent service out of LHR, they might be able to make it work....(but I'm not betting on it)...

I think they are better off using their slots at LHR for something more useful....in fact, if BD were smart, they would have made MAN a "fortress" and operated out of there (and either selling or just leasing their LHR slots), as they would have basically been a monopoly out of MAN..now they have to contend with the EK's of the world....and as I believe they won't be able to take on the BA's, VS's, AA's, of the world on the New York-London route....but we'll see...fun times indeed... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
dolphinflyer
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:12 am

It doesn't make sense for 3 UK carriers (BA, VS, BD) to all be serving LHR nonstop to the likes of BOS/NYC/WAS/CHI/LAX, etc. It would be overkill and an airfare bloodbath. Makes much more economic sense for VS and BD to work together (read: merge) and leverage the strengths of their respective networks.
 
mk777
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:12 am

I really enjoyed BD's service from IAD-MAN-IAD when i went to visit my sister in 2004. I don't know why BD stopped that service, i guess not a lot of demand for that route as the plane A332 was only 50-60% full in Y. however, the plane was extrememly clean, the inflight crew very courteous, and food quite decent for Y. But i think they should consider restarting it and maybe make MAN a connecting hub with Asian routes, i am sure its way better to connect there than at LHR.

But there is already so much competition on the asian routes and even routes in America with all the non-stop services, so i honestly can't say how BD would do from JFK, SFO, LAX, IAH, MIA, BOS or even if they restart IAD. Maybe i missed this but they still operate ORD and LAS, right??
come fly with me
 
bmiexpat
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting Dolphinflyer (Reply 62):
It doesn't make sense for 3 UK carriers (BA, VS, BD) to all be serving LHR nonstop to the likes of BOS/NYC/WAS/CHI/LAX, etc.

LHR-US accounts for 40% of the EU-US market, plenty of room for another UK operator, especially one with a reputation for battling against established carriers to improve service, increase competition and lower fares.
 
David_itl
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 64):
especially one with a reputation for battling against established carriers to improve service, increase competition and lower fares

And retiring hurt after getting a battering on routes where they were a new entrant?
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting Lite (Reply 34):
I'd have thought with Lufthansa owning 30% of bmi, they would be keen to use the relatively strong bmi brand to make the best of longhaul expansion out of LHR,

Relative to what, Olympic? If anything Bmi has a negative image in the degree that people outside of the UK even know they exist.
 
bmiexpat
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting David_itl (Reply 65):
And retiring hurt after getting a battering on routes where they were a new entrant?

Retiring hurt after getting a battering on what routes....

MANIAD - lack of suitable aircraft, after A330 pinched for LHR operation, not battered by existing carriers (there were no others)
LHRBOM - route ended due major tech problems with aircraft, A330 grounded for almost three months, therefore route no longer viable
MANYYZ - was only ever going to be a one off summer route, operated on behalf of AC
MANUVF - ended due not financially viable ex MAN

....what routes were you thinking of?

If you are looking at their LHR operation, bmi was the first carrier to succesfully break BA's monopoly on domestic shuttle routes to Scotland and Belfast, and the first carrier to break flag carrier dominance on european routes ex LHR.

bmi has a very successful and well respected long haul product, which will be further enhanced when the new business and premium cabins come online next month. They will be the first new carrier to be able to take advantage of open skies from LHR and with Star connections in the US there is no reason why they won't be very succesful. There is a huge market from LHR to the US and bmi only need a small part of it to be succesful!
 
bmiexpat
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 66):
If anything Bmi has a negative image in the degree that people outside of the UK even know they exist.

In the markets they serve, bmi has a very good reputation. The ORDMAN route carries quite a few yanks to the UK, and bmi has won awards for it's long haul service.
 
David_itl
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:13 am

As a rough guide to their previous thinking, I've got the following destinations as having been applied from from MAN from 1999 to 2001:

New York, Los Angeles, Boston, San Francisco, Denver, Houston, Seattle, Cincinatti, Atlanta, Miami, Detroit and Minneapolis. Not forgetting Washington (even if they did ruin the route!) and Chicago.

I believe that the list is identical to those from LHR?
 
jacobin777
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 67):
If you are looking at their LHR operation, bmi was the first carrier to succesfully break BA's monopoly on domestic shuttle routes to Scotland and Belfast, and the first carrier to break flag carrier dominance on european routes ex LHR.



Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 67):
MANIAD - lack of suitable aircraft, after A330 pinched for LHR operation, not battered by existing carriers (there were no others)
LHRBOM - route ended due major tech problems with aircraft, A330 grounded for almost three months, therefore route no longer viable
MANYYZ - was only ever going to be a one off summer route, operated on behalf of AC
MANUVF - ended due not financially viable ex MAN

a few things mate...

1) rather than running both city codes together, if you can add a "-" in between...i.e. such as LHR-BOM..it makes for reading a bit easier.. Smile
2)BD didn't do well to CDG..... no 
3) As I've said a few times above...BD should have focused on MAN for services..there was basically no competition...especially on long-haul...

Cheers....
"Up the Irons!"
 
bmiexpat
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 70):
2)BD didn't do well to CDG.....

As has been discussed on this board many times already, operating LON PAR is fighting a losing battle these days. With the high speed Eurostar rail link from central London to central Paris, the market for flying between the two cities has been shrinking for years and will drop off the end of a cliff once the jouney time drops to just over 2 hours from November. BA and AF have their large hub connections to maintain the traffic but bmi does not.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 70):
...BD should have focused on MAN for services..there was basically no competition...especially on long-haul...

Nice idea but the market for bmi to make a large long haul hub, with yields that make it worthwhile to take the (huge) risk, in MAN is just not there. MANORD is the only long haul route ex MAN that makes a profit for bmi.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:59 am

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 71):
Nice idea but the market for bmi to make a large long haul hub, with yields that make it worthwhile to take the (huge) risk, in MAN is just not there. MANORD is the only long haul route ex MAN that makes a profit for bmi.

...more than enough high-yield pax...hence why carriers such as SQ, PK, EK, EY, AC, LH etc. all fly to MAN....

all of those routes flown by the aforementioned carriers could have been flown by BD....along with ORD, IAD, and LAS, that's one nice route network....at least to start off with..
"Up the Irons!"
 
bmiexpat
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 72):
...more than enough high-yield pax...hence why carriers such as SQ, PK, EK, EY, AC, LH etc. all fly to MAN....

All of which have large hubs at the other end of the routes with which to connect passengers to. There will be very low numbers of O&D passengers on those carriers routes int MAN, bmi does not have this advantage.

bmi on routes to the states rely on connections with star partners, and there are only so many people wishing to fly from the North of England to the US. If it was such a gold mine, ready and waiting to be tapped, do you not think bmi would have made more of an effort to exploit it.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 73):

All of which have large hubs at the other end of the routes with which to connect passengers to. There will be very low numbers of O&D passengers on those carriers routes int MAN, bmi does not have this advantage.

...but they have the advantage of having fellow Star Alliance Partner UA, which they use quite extensively at for example ORD.....then there are alliance partners AC, SQ, NH, etc (and now with AI joining Star Alliance-that would have opened up India quite nicely too)....and then there is enough O&D to DXB, ect....

The MAN catchment area is certainly large enough to have a decent-sized long-haul carrier..and BD could have filled that void nicely....instead, they plan on taking BA, AA, VS,etc on LHR-JFK (so they say) and other carriers to other North American routes......great... sarcastic ..good luck...
"Up the Irons!"
 
steeler83
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:12 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 74):
The MAN catchment area is certainly large enough to have a decent-sized long-haul carrier..and BD could have filled that void nicely....instead, they plan on taking BA, AA, VS,etc on LHR-JFK (so they say) and other carriers to other North American routes......great... ..good luck...

My thoughts almost entirely... I would like to see them expand LHR to the US, but not to routes that already have service to the point of saturation, like JFK, BOS, IAD and ORD...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
bmiexpat
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:07 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 74):
....instead, they plan on taking BA, AA, VS,etc on LHR-JFK (so they say)

bmi has not said anything about destinations as yet. The only reference you can make is to their wish list they announced many many years ago, pre 9/11 when the aviation world was a much different place. Bashing a company based on what is purely conjecture on your part is quite poor!
 
jacobin777
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 75):

My thoughts almost entirely... I would like to see them expand LHR to the US, but not to routes that already have service to the point of saturation, like JFK, BOS, IAD and ORD...

 checkmark 

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 76):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 74):
....instead, they plan on taking BA, AA, VS,etc on LHR-JFK (so they say)

bmi has not said anything about destinations as yet. The only reference you can make is to their wish list they announced many many years ago, pre 9/11 when the aviation world was a much different place. Bashing a company based on what is purely conjecture on your part is quite poor!

...they have said it post 9/11 also, I've read it in a few places.. Smile

..of course, its obvious we won't know where they will fly to until we hear something "concrete" from BD, but so far that is one of the routes they have mentioned
"Up the Irons!"
 
steeler83
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:09 pm

Just curious, what did UA fly on JFK-LHR? Were they T7s and 747s, or were they 767s, or a mix of the three? I guess it really doesn't matter. They were on the route with widebody aircraft, the route didn't do as well for UA, they pulled out...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
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treebeard787
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:06 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 78):

They seem to have flown it with B777s.

[Edited 2007-03-24 17:09:27]
Allons-y!
 
steeler83
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting Treebeard787 (Reply 79):
They seem to have flown it with B777s.

That's what I thought. So if UA could not do it with 777s, how could BMI possibly pull off LHR-JFK with A330s?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
flyorski
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:21 am

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 43):
Red tail, red tail, red tail, whats this? A blue tail

HAHA It would be great, but I doubt there are enough Star connections in MSP.

I would not be surprised to see BMI get a bunch of aircraft from LH if LH increases there ownership. Love to see some A380 and 748......
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
steeler83
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 81):
I would not be surprised to see BMI get a bunch of aircraft from LH if LH increases there ownership. Love to see some A380 and 748......

Perhaps BMI could get 744s or A340s when they get the A380 and 748I???  spin 
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
af773atmsp
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:16 am

Not to get off topic but now that the Open Skies Agreement has been approved, will BA serve MSP?  Confused

Does BMI fly to LAX? If not then I think LAX or maybe SFO.
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steeler83
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 83):
Does BMI fly to LAX? If not then I think LAX or maybe SFO.

Yeah, but it has been discussed before that markets like LAX and SFO would probably seem UNlikely because of existing competitive service from BA. I am sure UA has a LHR frequency in there somewhere, unless they focus solely on Asia flying out of SFO.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
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legacyins
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 84):
Yeah, but it has been discussed before that markets like LAX and SFO would probably seem UNlikely because of existing competitive service from BA. I am sure UA has a LHR frequency in there somewhere, unless they focus solely on Asia flying out of SFO.

Both LAX and SFO are covered well with flights to LHR with multiple frequencies.

LAX has AA,BA,VS,NZ,UA

SFO has BA,VS,UA
 
steeler83
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 85):
Both LAX and SFO are covered well with flights to LHR with multiple frequencies.

LAX has AA,BA,VS,NZ,UA

SFO has BA,VS,UA

Thanks for confirming my above statements.  Smile
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
David_itl
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:11 pm

From today's Observer

BMI expected to use slots used for domestic routes to begin transatlantic service
Three routes: Chicago, Charlotte, New York
Three more A330s:.

BA:
IAH will be moved to LHR
DFW to follow (along with Austin?!?!?!)
A "Phase 2" agreement = minihub at JFK
 
IADLHR
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:36 pm

How about PHX-LHR? From what I have heard and read HP wont have the aircraft to serve LHR until about 2011 or so.
So maybe PHX-LHR is a possibility.
 
steeler83
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RE: Bmi To Announce US Routes: Place Your Bets

Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 88):
From what I have heard and read HP wont have the aircraft to serve LHR until about 2011 or so.
So maybe PHX-LHR is a possibility.

Yeah, make that 2013 or so, unless US can secure those A340s from Air Canada. Other than that, I see PHX as a possibility...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.

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