Was the A380 Delayed In HKG Overnight?

AirUtopia · Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:28 am

My team member reported that the A380 was 'possibly' being delayed overnight (saw the plane COME BACK at 1800 after departing initially at 1600) and the plane had the engine covers put back on, meaning good chance it is staying overnight.

Now this might well delay the US arrival at IAD. as we are 24 hrs away nearly from arrival at IAD (where I am now) and the plane is sitting in HKG.

Any more info - kindly inform.

David

soups · Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:42 am

Would it be the same A/C visiting EMA?

OA260 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:46 am

Could it just be that it was on a 2 hour mini trip to show corporates etc....???? I hope it isnt a tech related delay.

AirUtopia · Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:01 am

I have been working with LH as we have been documenting this flight at airports outside Germany - but of course everyone is asleep now in HKG - and in Germany they are on the weekend - so even my info is limited for this moment.

The plane was supposed to arrive at 0940 and depart at 1540.
It got delayed in FRA and arrived in HKG at 1210 (confirmed arrival by my local correspondent)

It departed as usual at 1610 (confirmed by my local correspondent)
It surprisingly returned at 1800 and parked and had covers put on the engines (confirmed by my int'l correspondent covering from inside the airport).

Therefore this tells me that the plane 'might' be delayed as COVERS are not normally placed for a few hours. Although it was last seen parked at 10pm local HKG time (10am EST US time Sunday).

Will continue to inform OR anyone else can....

stylo777 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:03 am

it left FRA with a delay of almost 3 hours due to hydraulic problems. the part needed is been flown in from TLS. but the tomorrow IAD seems to be on-time if the crew rest time allows that.

OA260 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:09 am

Thats a shame, is this normal for this type of ''teething problems''??? Hopefully they can learn from these things before handing over to SQ and fine tune any issues.

Anyone with more detailed info much appreciated. Heres hoping it can get back on schedule.

stylo777 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
is this normal for this type of ''teething problems''???

I suppose it is not normal, but take into account that this bird had a very busy week with all the flights between TLS-FRA-JFK-ORD. They told that this is a mx thing of 30min, but due to the non-existency of spare parts they need to ferry in that one from TLS.

OA260 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:22 am

I hope this does not happen in the first few weeks of EIS with SQ. Imagine the headlines!!!!

One thing I wanted to know is when a new AC rolls out of the hanger do they do a certain amount of testing before it goes to the airlines and also do the airlines test it a certain amount of cycles before it does its first passenger flights????

AirUtopia · Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:23 am

I'm sorry - let me clarify...

It was last seen in HKG at 10pm local time SATURDAY not Sunday as I was confused on days and timezones.
That means 10am local time Saturday morning EST US.

stylo777 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 7):
One thing I wanted to know is when a new AC rolls out of the hanger do they do a certain amount of testing before it goes to the airlines and also do the airlines test it a certain amount of cycles before it does its first passenger flights????

yes they did. please correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that they must done a plenty of hours flying to get a certification (2500hours?) as well as all the tests in the hangar with the wings, hydraulics, avionic, cabin, etc.

ikramerica · Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 6):
I suppose it is not normal, but take into account that this bird had a very busy week with all the flights between TLS-FRA-JFK-ORD.

That's less busy than any in service A346, 777 or 747. Lot's of sitting around and looking pretty.

It's just one of those things, but blaming it on being "busy" means what? The plane isn't suitable for service?

stylo777 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):
The plane isn't suitable for service?

I would say 'not yet'. Don't forget the plane is still in it's test phase so not ready for service. And if I'm not wrong MSN007 has flew only a before. And test flights are there to find any problems to solve them until the first delivery to SQ.

OA260 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:48 am

Well i guess these things happen but when I hear hydraulics problems it makes me curious exactly what it was and is it a problem easily solved or will it be a on going problem. I know its too early to decide but I agree a few flights to the USA and back is not more than what would be expected and it will be getting alot more abuse than that when it enters service .

stylo777 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 12):
Well i guess these things happen but when I hear hydraulics problems it makes me curious exactly what it was and is it a problem easily solved or will it be a on going problem. I know its too early to decide but I agree a few flights to the USA and back is not more than what would be expected and it will be getting alot more abuse than that when it enters service .

yes I think the same, but I have still the hopes to get a great plane without any porblems left at the end.

to the hydraulic issue I heard that it wasn't a big problem. at first they wanted to fix it with parts of A346, but this didn't solved the problem. than it has to be flying in from TLS. But I don't know if this statement of a LH Technic employee is 100% correct.

flylku · Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:24 am

Does anyone know where they are likely to park at IAD? Will they use this as a familiarization mission and park at LH/UA's "C" gates or put it over at Signature where the German Air Force often has their A340? Or might it be over in the General Aviation ramp on the west side of the airport. I was thinking of going flying at HEF (local GA airport) Sunday night and then driving by to see the beast but don't want to bother if the 380 will be out at the mid-field.

ikramerica · Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:44 am

I wasn't saying this is any major problem. My only point was the excuse that it was busy this week, and that it really wasn't busy compared to what it would do in service.

But if this plane hasn't been fully tested, that's a good reason for this to happen. I was under the impression that the current flying jets were completely fixed and it was the process and the 1/2 finished planes that were still needing to be fixed, and it was wiring only, but if this is all "part of the process" then that makes sense.

AirUtopia · Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:54 am

It will be placed FAR on the West side of the airport.

not good for anyone viewing - in fact BAD!

iadbudd · Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:58 am

The A380 at IAD is scheduled to arrive 2100-2200 sunday night the 25th (if not delayed) and will park at B45 the new LH gate in the B terminal. At some point it will be towed over to the H gates hardstand area near the base of the new control tower, off of taxiway Foxtrot and leave some time on Monday. There will be a lot of VIP's going up on the plane on Monday. Air France and Taca have will park elsewhere sunday night so that it can use B45. New lead in lines were measured and painted on B45 for the A380 Friday.

OldAeroGuy · Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:59 pm

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 11):
Don't forget the plane is still in it's test phase so not ready for service

The A380 has a joint EASA/FAA Type Certificate. It's not exactly in the test phase. Most airplanes EIS about one month after getting a TC.

desediez · Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:49 pm

Quoting FlyLKU (Reply 14):
Does anyone know where they are likely to park at IAD? Will they use this as a familiarization mission and park at LH/UA's "C" gates or put it over at Signature where the German Air Force often has their A340?

Wow! An A340 with the German Air Force. eyepopping

Can someone help with a link to a photo of it?

.....

just kidding laughing

zeke · Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:33 pm

Quoting AirUtopia (Reply 3):
It departed as usual at 1610 (confirmed by my local correspondent). It surprisingly returned at 1800 and parked and had covers put on the engines (confirmed by my int'l correspondent covering from inside the airport).

AIB203 did a planned 2 hr demonstration flight to the south of HKG.

Quoting AirUtopia (Reply 3):
Therefore this tells me that the plane 'might' be delayed as COVERS are not normally placed for a few hours. Although it was last seen parked at 10pm local HKG time (10am EST US time Sunday).

It was schedule to depart at 08:50 local this morning, it departed 5 min late at 08:55, flight time of about 11:40, should land before the schedule arrival time of 15:10 at FRA.

It is then due to go to to Washington a few hours after arriving.

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 13):
to the hydraulic issue I heard that it wasn't a big problem. at first they wanted to fix it with parts of A346, but this didn't solved the problem.

If it was a pressure transducer a 346 part will not help, the 380 system is at a 2000 psi higher pressure.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 18):
It's not exactly in the test phase.

The aircraft still has a flight test engineer and test pilots onboard, and is still instrumented for testing.

MAC26000 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:00 pm

I'am guessing with this mornings winds it will land on 01L. Does anyone plan on meeting on top of the parking garage at IAD, or do you think the old parking lot next to Signature would be better.

glideslope · Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 18):
The A380 has a joint EASA/FAA Type Certificate. It's not exactly in the test phase. Most airplanes EIS about one month after getting a TC.

Good point. Perhaps it was just a defective part. Although we really don't know how frequently parts are being replaced during test flights. There is also the continuing lack of a Production Certificate. IMO, Airbus is under tramendous presure to "prove" the aircraft to obtain new customer orders. Unfortunately, this won't help.

adizzy · Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:23 pm

I would so come on down to IAD this morning but a roundtrip Jetblue ticket from BOS is running like $500! YIKES

MAC26000 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:42 pm

ADiZzy..only worry is if they land on 19/30 and go to FOXTROT, no one is going to see much of anything. Angry

Skydogs · Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:47 pm

Quoting FlyLKU (Reply 14):
Signature where the German Air Force often has their A340

As a Signature Employee. I can tell you the GAF has never parked an A340. You may have seen the A310

sabenapilot · Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:03 pm

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 22):
Perhaps it was just a defective part. Although we really don't know how frequently parts are being replaced during test flights.

Do you have any idea how much attention from line maintenance any plane -whether or not it is a brand new one- constantly needs to keep it in the air? If you do your job as a captain right, you should have at least one minor write up in the tech log after virtually every flight, going from an simple observation of something not reacting 100% as it should be to a detection of an isolated defect in a system.

People here often think a plane with a high dispatch reliability is virtually free of maintenance actions, but I can assure you this is absolutely NOT the case. All planes need constant care between 2 flights and only when you have a combination of a fabulously good in-house (line) maintenance with a plane free of complex and reoccurring problems can you guarantee the highest dispatch reliability. Take away one of these 2 preconditions and any plane which has the best reputation will turns into a 'hangar queen' over night.

Here we just had bad luck and the spare part was not readily available on the airport (no surprise, since the A380 isn't in service yet, so maintenance supply centers at the main airports haven't invested in the required spare parts yet), so a very common line maintenance procedure couldn't be done right away and caused the delay.

[quote=Glideslope,reply=22IMO, Airbus is under tremendous pressure to "prove" the aircraft to obtain new customer orders. Unfortunately, this won't help.[/quote]

Fortunately airlines can very well distinguish between inherently badly designed planes and planes which occasionally are faced with one off technical glitches (minor ones like we had here -a failed pressure transducer- or more serious and spectacular ones like the T7 engine failure during its demonstration flight on a sales campaign to SAA) and which are known to all planes.

OA260 · Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 26):
Fortunately airlines can very well distinguish between inherently badly designed planes and planes which occasionally are faced with one off technical glitches (minor ones like we had here -a failed pressure transducer- or more serious and spectacular ones like the T7 engine failure during its demonstration flight on a sales campaign to SAA) and which are known to all planes.

Thanks Sabenapilot for the well written reply. Im sure 99% will agree the A380 is an amazing acheivement and we look forward to SQ bringing it into service in 7 or 8 months time.

OldAeroGuy · Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 20):
Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 18):
It's not exactly in the test phase.

The aircraft still has a flight test engineer and test pilots onboard, and is still instrumented for testing.

Why? What testing is still being done? If the airplane is TC'd, why isn't the test equipment being removed so the airplane can be configured for delivery?

Test equipment is not required for demo flights and more flight testing won't help get a Production Certificate.

However, I do agree with Sabenapilot that this type of occurence happens in normal line operation. There are a lot parts on a commercial airplane so occasional equipment failures are inevitable.

zeke · Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 28):
Why? What testing is still being done?

Could be a million and one reasons for that, the simplest of all could be with monitoring different onboard IFE and cabin systems under real passenger loads, that is one of the reasons LH is participating in the tests.

adambrau · Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:55 pm

As an interesting historical comparison, when Pan Am inagurated the 747 on JFK-LHR on 21 January 1970 there was an engine malfunction prior to take off and the plane had to return to gate, all the passengers disembarked and a substitute aircraft brought in from the hangar. Instead of a 7pm departure, the flight actually took off at 2am and was greeted in London, hours late, as the "Dumbo Jumbo" by the tabloid press. The A380 is still months away from entering scheduled service, so I do think these types of events are to be unexpected.

A342 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 26):

Sabenapilot,

have you now flown the A380 as a pilot ?

soundtrack · Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:22 am

Plane departed HKG SUNDAY morning at 0900 which means good chance it is for a on time arrival in Wash DC if it stays in FRA for a few hours.

MAC26000 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:33 am

Does anyone know what flight number it will use when enroute to IAD.

flylku · Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting Skydogs (Reply 25):
As a Signature Employee. I can tell you the GAF has never parked an A340. You may have seen the A310

I've seen the A310 you are speaking of but I have also seen an A340 with what I thought were the same markings. I have seen it many times and was actually in your facility once joking with the guy about how much I'd like to put the fuel bill on my credit card to get the miles (ten years ago). Also, I'm sure you've seen the RAF's VC10 but I don't recall if they park over on your ramp.

Skydogs · Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting FlyLKU (Reply 34):
I've seen the A310 you are speaking of but I have also seen an A340 with what I thought were the same markings. I have seen it many times and was actually in your facility once joking with the guy about how much I'd like to put the fuel bill on my credit card to get the miles (ten years ago). Also, I'm sure you've seen the RAF's VC10 but I don't recall if they park over on your ramp.

The 340 you speak of was/is HZ-124 until last summer more or less a base tenenat. VC-10's do still come. However, the RAFLO usually gets them routed staight thru to belize instead of stopping at IAD

WestWing · Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting MAC26000 (Reply 33):
Does anyone know what flight number it will use when enroute to IAD.

FlyteComm shows DLH 8948 en-route.

glideslope · Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 28):
However, I do agree with Sabenapilot that this type of occurrence happens in normal line operation. There are a lot parts on a commercial airplane so occasional equipment failures are inevitable.

Of course it would, but by any standard can we describe the 380 program as "normal?" I'm waiting for the fuel burn numbers from the JFK, and LAX flights. Cool

flylku · Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting Skydogs (Reply 35):
The 340 you speak of was/is HZ-124 until last summer more or less a base tenenat. VC-10's do still come. However, the RAFLO usually gets them routed staight thru to belize instead of stopping at IAD

Ahhh... Saudi, not German. With such generic markings who could tell and I always associated it with the A310 that the GAF uses.

On another note, It sounds like it will be very difficult to see "the beast" at Dulles. Gate B-45 is buried between the main terminal and the mid-field.

iadbudd · Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:37 am

The A340 at IAD is going to land on either 19R or 1L in order to use taxiway ZULU and go straight to B45 to offload. Then tow to hardstand off of FOXTROT. Monday it will make a flight to nowhere with dignitaries onboard in the early evening and return to the Hardstand. After Air France leaves it will tow over to B45 for fueling and boarding for flight back to FRA around 2200. The private A340 parked at Signature belongs to the former Saudi ambassador to the U.S Prince Bandar. When he lived here for many years, it spent most of it's time parked on the Signature ramp. The GAF brings in the A310.

A350XWB · Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:41 am

A380 took off in FRA at 6:38 pm CET. This means it was about 30 minutes delayed.

cricket · Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:50 am

Guess what I was on LH8948/AIB203 HKG-HKG. LH and Airbus had organised a two-hour 'experience' flight on the plane. TR coming later (along with a couple of mem cards full of pictures). But yes the plane was supposed to overnight in HKG.

AirUtopia · Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:19 am

Yes thanks for helping clarify EVERYONE...

It was confirmed as above mentioned departing HKG at just before 0900 by my local rep there as well.

LH originally told me on Friday that it was departing at 1540 for FRA, when i believe he may have confused the departure of the Demo flight versus the departure for FRA.

Skydogs · Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:35 am

[quote=FlyLKU,reply=38]On another note, It sounds like it will be very difficult to see "the beast" at Dulles. Gate B-45 is buried between the main terminal and the mid-field.[/quote

Not for me. IAD SIDA never leave home with out it...

awthompson · Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:25 am

Please check out the forum topics......

I have started a topic "Live! A380 Photographed Over N. Ireland"

I have photographed DLH 8948 at 17:51 GMT (Sunday 25th March 07) over Northern Ireland and my photos are already posted.

Hopefully this link will work....
Live A380 Photographed Over N. Ireland (by Awthompson Mar 25 2007 in Civil Aviation)

The flight should be about half way across the Atlantic Ocean by now.

zeke · Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:05 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 41):
Guess what I was on LH8948/AIB203 HKG-HKG. LH and Airbus had organised a two-hour 'experience' flight on the plane. TR coming later (along with a couple of mem cards full of pictures). But yes the plane was supposed to overnight in HKG.

TR in today's paper http://www.financeasia.com/article.aspx?CIaNID=48453

cricket · Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:57 pm

Images of the A380 at and around HKG, as well as in-flight

KongHong

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