Special Mention To The Embraer190!

rootsair · Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:52 am

Today I left early from home(close to GVA) and took the train all the way to BSL. I had booked a one day trip BSL-CDG-BSL so I would get to fly the fokker100 and the E190 for the first time. I had heard how great and modern the E190 was ,so I wanted to try myself.
What an excellent surprise. Not only it was all new but it was very comfortable, spatious with a great seat pitch and legroom and nice big windows! Not to mention its nicely silent!
This was an Air France Regional A/C so it had no PTV's as they do in North America. I must imagine that with the PTV included the E 190 must rock even more.
Congratulation Embraer for building jus great aircraft and for beating the two big giants on the 100 seater market ! And its great to see its Brazilian. It would have made more sense that some asian manufacturer came up with an aircraft like the Embraers bt the fact its from a so called developing country like Brazil makes this aircraft even more remarkable !
airplane

TACAA320 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:24 am

No TR ?

filler

filler

Bicoastal · Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:29 am

What's with Air Canada's E190s? The flight to San Diego, 779, is always late. Yesterday it was a 4 hour mechanical delay. Last week they had to sub an A319 a few days due to mechanical issues with the E190. It may be pretty but how's the dispatch reliability??? I'd rather have a reliable aircraft than a pretty one....hmmm....maybe a good Polls and Preferences question.

TACAA320 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:39 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 2):
Yesterday it was a 4 hour mechanical delay. Last week they had to sub an A319 a few days due to mechanical issues with the E190.

Not the first time that I heard that.
The last delay [ a huge one ] that I had with a EMB-190, was due to mechanical problems [route PTY/SJO].

PPVRA · Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 2):

SAN is pretty hot, and it must me warming up this time of year, perhaps AC is running into MTOW issues as these routes are very, very long for the E-190.

That could be one reason. Another is perhaps that plane hasn't yet received the update package Embraer is installing on all jets.

brons2 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:43 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 4):
SAN is pretty hot,

Not along the coast it isn't.

And the airport is fairly near to the coast.

...RootsAir, glad you enjoyed your flight on the E-180 Big grin

(or is that the U-180 Big grin

)

PPVRA · Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 5):

Not along the coast it isn't.

And the airport is fairly near to the coast.

Interesting. Not a lot of variation all year around.

What about winds? Not in SAN, but across the country?

brons2 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:16 am

The weather is a prime reason San Diego self-proclaimed itself "America's Finest City" for many years. Were it not for the housing prices, I would tend to agree. However, once you get 20 or 30 miles inland it's a LOT hotter in the summertime.

The prevailing winds across the US are west to east, if that helps. I don't know where AC 779 originates from.

PPVRA · Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 7):

The prevailing winds across the US are west to east, if that helps. I don't know where AC 779 originates from.

YYZ.

I was thinking maybe stronger prevailing winds could vary with the season, hence delays or Airbus substitutions.

B6sFinest · Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:46 am

The E-180 sucks majorly...Like Ive sain in previous threads B6 needs to sink ours in the bottom of the Atlantic...As the would make better coral reefs then airplanes....

TACAA320 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:49 am

Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 9):
Like Ive sain in previous threads B6 needs to sink ours in the bottom of the Atlantic...

Only JetBlue or all airlines which own the 180 ?

PPVRA · Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 9):

That's why Embraer keeps selling them? sarcastic

Perhaps you'd be better fish-food than a B6 flight attendant?

B6sFinest · Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:05 am

Well thanks PPVRA, but im not a F/A...Do some research. Dont get me wrong. I think Embraer makes a great airplane, but they should stick to small airplanes and leave the bigger birds to the big boys like Boeing or Airbus. The E-180 is having problems and even though im not a CEO or a pilot, it doesnt seem like Embraer is to helpful when we call them with a problem with there plane they made....

andaman · Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:29 am

Finnair say they have been very pleased with their E190s and E170s both. With the ordered ones, they will have 10+10 E-birds. Haven't tried them yet, have to book some shorter AY flight next time...

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Normando Carvalho Jr.

bsbisland · Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 12):
but they should stick to small airplanes and leave the bigger birds to the big boys like Boeing or Airbus.

As long as it is a business and they keep selling them, why should they do it? Maybe because airlines are extremely stupid in planning and management... and I'm sure a.netters can help them!!

sandrozrh · Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 14):

As long as it is a business and they keep selling them, why should they do it

Exactly for that reason, to have happy customers, so they can keep seeling them. "Ah, we sell it, let's let the airlines in the desert with their problems" is extremely naive. They might be doing great now, but if they continue with such an attitude, i wonder where they'll be in 10-20 years. If they want to be successful in the long term, they'll need to support their customers. And, mind you, Embraer hasnt sold a shitload of E190s yet. If they want to make the E170/90 family a real success, like Airbus and Boeing did/do with the A32s and 737s respectively, they'll HAVE TO support their customers rather sooner than later. Do you see my point?

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 14):
Maybe because airlines are extremely stupid in planning and management

I'll leave my cynical remark here, but im sure i wasnt the only one chuckling at this comment. Think again, you might realise why the airlines seem to be "stupid in planning and management" when it comes dow to the E-jets.

If you can't come up with a solution, i'll be glad to enlighten you.

Box37 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:58 am

Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 9):
The E-180 sucks majorly...Like Ive sain in previous threads

Before you blast a anufacturer, there are 2 issues to be learned: A) how to handle snow storms and B) spelling.
After that you will be entitled to change manufacturers nomenclature of airplanes.

sandrozrh · Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:09 am

Quoting Box37 (Reply 16):
there are 2 issues to be learned:

Quoting Box37 (Reply 16):
B) spelling.

Quoting Box37 (Reply 16):
a anufacturer,

AlexPorter · Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:28 am

This thread is very, very off-topic.

Anyway, except for the mechanical issues with the 190 (not sure if it applies to the 170?), I've heard they are very nice rides. Not just on airlines with good service reputations like jetBlue (let's ignore the storm), but even with operations like US Airways Express - US Airways isn't known for great service, but from what I've heard, even their E170s are quite nice. You can get an impression of how photographers felt if you look up cabin views of these E-jets. Personally, I haven't flown any of them yet, but I will fly the E170 MSP-PHL on US Express in May, so I'll wait and see. I just hope it's on time because I'm connecting to an overseas flight!

adizzy · Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:29 am

Quoting Box37 (Reply 16):
anufacturer,

Dont blast someone for spelling until you check your own!

I personally love the E190. Yes, the do go tech all the time, but its small stuff that is easily fixed! I don't see them as unsafe and i sure as hell want to see more airlines taking some on!

BTW and E190 JetBlue flight 1017 BOS - JFK experienced an emergency landing this afternoon. Anyone have the details?

TACAA320 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting Box37 (Reply 16):
B) spelling.

Quoting Box37 (Reply 16):
Before you blast a anufacturer[sic],

It applies to you too.
rotfl

cftoa · Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:43 am

Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 9):
The E-180 sucks majorly...Like Ive sain in previous threads B6 needs to sink ours in the bottom of the Atlantic

Embraer makes wonderful aircraft. Sure, some airlines including B6 and AC are having alot of difficulty with them, but we must also consider that the E-170/175/190 series is a fairly new aircraft program, and flaws are to be expected. I have flown on AC's E-175 and E-190, and despite the fairly common late departure time, I found them to be very comfortable.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 2):
What's with Air Canada's E190s? The flight to San Diego, 779, is always late. Yesterday it was a 4 hour mechanical delay. Last week they had to sub an A319 a few days due to mechanical issues with the E190. It may be pretty but how's the dispatch reliability??? I'd rather have a reliable aircraft than a pretty one....hmmm....maybe a good Polls and Preferences question.

As I said, AC has been having alot of difficulty with these aircraft, which in some cases have lead to late departures/arrivals, and AC having to replace the E-jets with A32X equipment due to mechanical problems. There was a thread on this earlier, and there were some rather interesting stories about happenings with the E-jets. In summary I hope Embraer sorts out whatever problems and flaws the E-170/75/90 has, so they can continue to get steady aircraft orders.

Cheers.

PPVRA · Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:49 am

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 15):

I don't think it's customer service here. It's some sort of glitch they've been trying to figure out for a while.

They have been installing a package on these aircrafts. Hopefully they figured the problem out.

Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 12):
but they should stick to small airplanes and leave the bigger birds to the big boys like Boeing or Airbus.

Airbus had problems with the A320 as well. They fixed the glitches or whatever you wanna call them and they are just fine now.

Wasn't it GE 777s that had engine problems at first? Nothing really big, and ultimately fixed, but should GE leave big engines to RR and PW? I don't think so.

[Edited 2007-03-26 04:51:00]

cftoa · Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:58 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 22):
Airbus had problems with the A320 as well. They fixed the glitches or whatever you wanna call them and they are just fine now.

Wasn't it GE 777s that had engine problems at first? Nothing really big, and ultimately fixed, but should GE leave big engines to RR and PW? I don't think so.

My point exactly. You cannot expect a complicated piece of equipment such as an aircraft to be 100% perfect as soon as it is released. There are many many aircraft that have had problems shortly after release, the A320 included, but these problems are of no huge issue and are eventually worked out. Embraer's aircraft are very cost effective, and ergonomic, and I know for fact they are working on fixing these issues right now.

Cheers.

cftoa · Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 12):
I think Embraer makes a great airplane, but they should stick to small airplanes and leave the bigger birds to the big boys like Boeing or Airbus.

Risks are mean't to be taken in a bussiness such as the aircraft manufacturing industry. Embraer took a huge risk by introducing the E-170/75/95 series, and have had nothing but success so far.

Cheers.

VonRichtofen · Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:31 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 4):
SAN is pretty hot, and it must me warming up this time of year, perhaps AC is running into MTOW issues as these routes are very, very long for the E-190.

That could be one reason. Another is perhaps that plane hasn't yet received the update package Embraer is installing on all jets.

I can pretty much guarantee you it was a problem with the airplane. The E-190 has had lots of problems. I mean lots. B6 is having them too. Most of the problems are software, but not all. I'd say almost 50% of the E-190's I work in a day have inoperative APU's. Not only that but often the water pressurization system completely fails, so f/a's and pax have no running water mid-flight. Also, and this relates to my job directly, is the piss poor design of the cargo holds and cargo doors. Way too many things to catch on baggage and cargo, the edge of the hold has a metal covering that within a week gets bent and catches on everything slowing down the whole process (we can turn a full 320 or 319 in half the time it takes for the E-180). The doors will indicate "closed" in the cockpit even if they aren't shut properly. The valve levers for the potable water are made of cheap plastic and break off in the cold weather...there's issues with engine starts in the cold (as in, sometimes it just won't start) the list goes on and on.

Embraer has a lot to learn it seems.

Kris

TACAA320 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:41 pm

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frederico Cavalcante

Beautiful indeed. But with some problems to be fixed.

flamant15 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:04 pm

I have flown on a 170 and a 190. I love flying on this plane. I would prefer to fly on this plane over any E-145, CRJ-200, MD-80, 717, A320 or 737.

The seats are super wide and the windows are great. Most importantly no middle seat!

I really hope that embraer can fix the issues they are having because from a passanger point of view it is a great plane.

TACAA320 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting Flamant15 (Reply 27):
I have flown on a 170 and a 190. I love flying on this plane. I would prefer to fly on this plane over any E-145, CRJ-200, MD-80, 717, A320 or 737.

Unfortunately you can ride some routes in the 190 eg. PTY/EZE. You must ride a 737 or a 320.

LipeGIG · Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:24 pm

I flew the 170 last month for the first time, and despite the fact i'm Brazilian, i have to say that it's an amazing product with the "love" seats. For sure Embraer is facing some problems with software but i'm sure all airlines will be extremely happy in the future with the E-Jets family.

Felipe

RJ100 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:34 pm

Cool picture Braulio...was good to see you in BSL on Saturday. Smile

Cannot wait to fly on this bird myself.

Take care,

Thomas

rootsair · Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:03 pm

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 30):
Cool picture Braulio...was good to see you in BSL on Saturday. Smile Cannot wait to fly on this bird myself.

Take care,

Thomas

Thanks a lot. It was very nice indeed on Saturday meeting up ! And I will tell anyone else like I told you, try flying the E190, its worth it !
Regards
BM airplane

rpaillard · Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:19 pm

The E190 will also be deployed between BIQ and CDG. Yes, it's sometimes cool to live around a small airport. I also can't wait to fly the E190. I will very soon, but I also have so far very positive feedback from relatives with this plane.

Glad that you enjoyed the trip, Braulio. At least something different from the A32X, you must be hysterically happy Big grin

rootsair · Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:24 pm

Quoting Rpaillard (Reply 32):
At least something different from the A32X, you must be hysterically happy

oh definitely! The worst is that when the bus was taking us to the a/c in CDG, it stopped in front of an A320 at the beginning and I told myelf "noooo!" but it finally continued to the E190 !!! Wink

Logos · Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:11 pm

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 25):
The valve levers for the potable water are made of cheap plastic and break off in the cold weather...there's issues with engine starts in the cold (as in, sometimes it just won't start) the list goes on and on.

It seems a lot of the problems that AC is having with the E-190 are cold weather related. You're not the first one to curse the cargo hold design, however, and that will be a problem regardless of the outside temperature.

Because there's really nothing else exactly like these planes (lower capacity but full size jet or better passenger comfort), I would imagine that they will continue to sell well for a while. But if Embraer can't overcome the dispatch reliability issues, that's in doubt for the long term. I'd like to think that most of these are the teething problems common to all new aircraft as I'd like to fly on one of these myself someday, but some of the things that VonRichtofen (may I call you Baron?) mentions would seem to be fundamental design flaws that will defy simple fixes. I'm guessing that AC will eventually want to get out the aircraft if they can't resolve the cold weather issues.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando

saab2000 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:39 pm

I have not read most of the threads here, so I will only comment on the topic of the original. I rode the other day on an EMB-190 operated by US Airways from PHL-BOS. We were deadheading to go pick up a plane in BOS and I was very impressed with the EMB-190. It is a great ride. We sat in the very last row.

The leg room is adequate (like any other plane) but where the EMB-170-190 stand out is in width. It is comfortable to sit next to someone without feeling like they are right on top of you. You can read the paper or a book without bumping shoulders.

That this plane is ever compared to the CRJ product is amazing. There is no comparison. Except supposedly the CRJ has lower direct operating costs.

But from a passenger perspective, there is no contest. The debate is over. The EMB-190 is a winner for passenger comfort.

adizzy · Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:55 pm

I have flown on B6's E -190's several times over the past few months. I have flown from BOS -JFK a few times and from BOS-NAS! I have got to say that although the E190 has its glitches from a passenger perspective it seems to be preferred over the 320. Also, haven spoken to the fight crew from Boston to Nassau they also say that they prefer working on the 190 rather than the 320. The jumpseat is better and so is the harness, the cabin seems much quieter than an 320, and seems to give a much smoother flight! Also the 190 does seem very powerful the takeoff experience on it is much similar to a full power takeoff on a 757!

I do want to say that they do need to fix the glitches on these planes. All new planes have them.....even the 320 which i believe crashed at an air show in France because of an issue with the fly-by-wire software!

I love it so much that i am trying to figure out which flights from BOS to MCO will get me on a 190. I dont mind connecting in IAD or JFK if i have too! Any suggestions?

sandrozrh · Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 22):
I don't think it's customer service here. It's some sort of glitch they've been trying to figure out for a while.

They have been installing a package on these aircrafts. Hopefully they figured the problem out.

Did you actually see my point? I didn't say Embraer is a crappy Manufacturer because the E170/190s aren't 100% perfect. Almost every new aircraft encounters problems in the beginning, however, it's the MANUFACTURER'S duty to help the airlines fix their problems, unlike you said. Just thinking "ah why should we do anything about it, the airlines can solve their problems by themselves" won't help them in the long run as airlines will buy from other manufacturers in the future where they'll actually get the support they need. And it's not all about bad planning/management on the airlines behalf either, as they need the manufacturer's support to introduce a new A/C type.

Did the penny drop now?

CRJ900 · Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:47 pm

I find it interesting that AF will fly both the E190 and the CRJ1000 from 2009 (E190 with Régional and CRJ1000 with Brit Air). Can't wait to read comparison threads here on A.net.

Perhaps AC and B6 are pushing the E190's too hard too soon, and therefore they end up breaking down because they are just plain "tired"...?

PPVRA · Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 37):
unlike you said.

That is EXACTLY what I said.

sandrozrh · Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:28 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 39):

That is EXACTLY what I said.

Whatever...

B6sFinest · Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:47 am

I think the E-180 is a great ride as well. I didnt say they werent comfortable and a great ride. I love riding out to the taxi way and back to the get. They have nice seats and the air conditioning feels good....LOL

mrocktor · Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting ADiZzy (Reply 36):
The jumpseat is better

The A320's jumpseat must be made of sharp glass then

Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 41):
(snip - nothing worth quoting)

In any situation there are people who are part of the solution and people who are part of the problem. Knowing B6's culture and work ethic, I doubt you'll last there.

[Edited 2007-03-26 18:14:28]

richierich · Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 9):
The E-180 sucks majorly...Like Ive sain in previous threads B6 needs to sink ours in the bottom of the Atlantic...As the would make better coral reefs then airplanes....

Oh come on... that's a silly statement to make.

The E190 is a very comfortable aircraft from the passenger's perspective (which is what this thread was all about, as far as I can tell!). In my 5-6 flights on JetBlue's E190s - I hope to be on a US E170 later this year - I have been lucky and not experienced any delays or problems, and the flights were very good. The seats were comfy and I am a big fan of the big windows. For anybody who thinks these are oversized regional jets, I suggest trying one first. As always, I love JetBlue's service on these planes, and watching tv or listening to XM while spending an hour taxiing for takeoff at JFK is SO MUCH better than not having either.

As for the reliability, I admit that I am not the one to ask about this. I can only say for sure that I have been lucky on my flights. But it seems to me that everybody knew there were going to be problems as this is a new aircraft type. Yes, the E170 has been around a year or two longer than the E190, but AFAIK they have completely different engines on them, so it is not exactly fair to compare the two from that point of view. Now that JetBlue's E190s have been flying a year and a half, I'd sort of hope that the major glitches have been rectified and it sounds like that has not quite happened. Hopefully this new software package will do the trick, because if the E190 can enjoy anywhere near the dispatch reliability of the A320 or B737, this aircraft will be hard to beat.

icna05e · Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
Today I left early from home(close to GVA) and took the train all the way to BSL. I had booked a one day trip BSL-CDG-BSL so I would get to fly the fokker100 and the E190 for the first time

And I thought I was an aviation geek...
Unfortunately I don't see anyone in my class doing such a thing. Me excepted perhaps but I think I would rather spend the money to fly front seat, left or right!

bobnwa · Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting B6sFinest (Reply 9):
The E-180 sucks majorly...Like Ive sain in previous threads B6 needs to sink ours in the bottom of the Atlantic...As the would make better coral reefs then airplanes....

What a juvenile remark for an airline employee to make. Do you think your opinion is the official opinion of B6, when it is discussing issues with the manufacturer?

Bicoastal · Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:24 am

fyi....AC 779, YYZ to SAN, late 2 hours yet again today.

cftoa · Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 46):
fyi....AC 779, YYZ to SAN, late 2 hours yet again today.

As funny and ironic as that is, I am not about to make a biased opinion about Embraer, especially since that isn't even what the thread is about. We are already way off topic.

Cheers.

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