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2wingtips
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Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:52 pm

Another piece from this week's electronic FI, with no available link as yet.
Udvar-Hazy is changing his tone on the 748I and says several 380 v 748I battles are going on in earnest. He mentioned BA, CX and possibly UA/NW. Previously, I don't think he spoke very favourably re the 748I, labelling it pretty much as a 747 derivative from an old design against the all new A380. The article indicated that ILFC were potentially looking at 748 orders and that the 100 mark for 748 orders could be broken quite soon.
Interestingly, SUH gave a clear indication that ILFC was about to make a Boeing purchase, when he said we are Airbus' #1 customer but only Boeing's # 2 customer. Reference was made that ILFC used to be Boeing's #1 customer and that is where they want to be. Pretty strong hint of a forthcoming order IMO. I wonder whether an ILFC 748I purchase could involve EK as a customer?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:55 pm

Well if SUH is changing his tune on the 748I, that would be because airlines are.

So it is possible UA and NW are looking at 748I leases (safer then outright purchases) and perhaps BA also might be looking at leasing some of their fleet (including an A388 fleet?) as they determine how Open Skies (and the need for VLAs with it's arrival) shakes out over the next decade...
 
EI321
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Well if SUH is changing his tune on the 748I, that would be because airlines are.

Exactly, he is a middle man.

Quoting 2wingtips (Thread starter):
He mentioned BA, CX and possibly UA/NW.

BA & CX are not news, but does he seriously think NW / UA are interested in A380s?
 
Lumberton
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:03 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Well if SUH is changing his tune on the 748I, that would be because airlines are.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
Quite a turnaround; he wasn't all that complimentary the last time he pronounced judgment.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
astuteman
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:07 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Well if SUH is changing his tune on the 748I, that would be because airlines are.

That's almost inevitable, given the current exchange rate, and also LH's purchase (which purchase S U-H quote in the article as having "repositioned the 748i as a viable contender").

Regards
 
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keesje
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
BA & CX are not news, but does he seriously think NW / UA are interested in A380s?

I think looking at the network strategy and competition of those airlines, most will fly the 748 or 380 sooner or later.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:26 pm

Interesting that he labels it as a derivative but then hints that they are likely to order some.

I wonder if we'll see any A380 748 orders this year?
 
2wingtips
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:36 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 6):
Interesting that he labels it as a derivative but then hints that they are likely to order some.

That's what he used to label it. Now it's a viable A380 contender that is right in the mix to be ordered by ILFC.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 6):
I wonder if we'll see any A380 748 orders this year?

Of course we will. BA will order one or both and LH will likely firm up more 380 options. I really don't know what the CX timetable is. Randy Tinseth who is head of the 748 program said Boeing were definitely pursuing more Intercontinental orders this year.
 
Norcal773
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:43 pm

This guy is too much 'talk' if you ask me. He reminds me of his boy, Tim Clark.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting 2wingtips (Thread starter):
The article indicated that ILFC were potentially looking at 748 orders and that the 100 mark for 748 orders could be broken quite soon.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Well if SUH is changing his tune on the 748I, that would be because airlines are.

An example is NZ. Different threads on this list have had postings saying that the case for the 777-300ER didn't make it to the Board and that NZ "is thrashing out" the possibility of a 10 frame 747-8i order. Almost for sure about one half of these would be leased and ILFC has historically had the bulk of NZ's lease business.
 
dw747400
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 8):
This guy is too much 'talk' if you ask me. He reminds me of his boy, Tim Clark.

He also runs what is probably the must successful company in the history of commercial aviation and owns more wide-body aircraft than any airline. He's earned the right to talk! Clark, well, we'll see in a few years if EK meets his expectations, but SUH is a pillar of the industry.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
EI321
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:04 pm

Has boeing made some change to the 747-8 that is making him/airlines view it differently? Or Is the A380F / A380 timetable making him/airlines see the 747-8 differently?
 
dutchjet
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Well if SUH is changing his tune on the 748I, that would be because airlines are.



Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3):


Quite a turnaround; he wasn't all that complimentary the last time he pronounced judgment.

This is a big deal, ILFC's ""endorsement"" of the 748I with a possible order will be a huge boost to the 748I program and will get the 748I into service with more carriers. Its simply a matter of time as to when more 748I orders are finalized and announced.....we have been saying that for a long time, but Boeing has no intention of building the 748I just for LH. And, in recent times, there have been no new orders for the A380 either, so all of the potential airlines that have not make a decision in the 748/A380 category are still around, lots of time has passed, but very litte has changed.

The favorites to order the 748I are the same....that BA ordered 4 additional 772ERs and did not move along to the 773ER is, I think, a clue that BA will be a 748I purchaser and could be the next announcement.

As for UA and NW.....both airlines fly certain routes which require big airplanes: traffic is growing and the A330 and 772ER are not the answer for every long haul transoceanic route, thus we can be sure that both are taking a long hard look at the 748I (and A380) and will order when finances permit.
 
SCAT15F
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting 2wingtips (Thread starter):
I wonder whether an ILFC 748I purchase could involve EK as a customer?

That will depend on how much extra range Boeing can squeeze out of the 748I; as of yet there have been no updates on the status of the weight reduction program and potential results.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 13):
That will depend on how much extra range Boeing can squeeze out of the 748I; as of yet there have been no updates on the status of the weight reduction program and potential results.

EK can get an extra 300nm out of it if they lower the seat-count. So perhaps they prefer to lease so they can configure the fleet in two versions - an 8300nm "light seating" model and an 8000nm "heavy seating" variant to meet whichever mission profile they want yet not have to worry about trying to resell them down the road, letting ILFC deal with it.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):

Quoting 2wingtips (Thread starter):
He mentioned BA, CX and possibly UA/NW.

BA & CX are not news, but does he seriously think NW / UA are interested in A380s?



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12):
As for UA and NW.....both airlines fly certain routes which require big airplanes: traffic is growing and the A330 and 772ER are not the answer for every long haul transoceanic route, thus we can be sure that both are taking a long hard look at the 748I (and A380) and will order when finances permit.

UA and NW are both in the interesting position of having 747-400 be the longest range aircraft in their fleet. NW's A330's can't run most of their transpac routes. UA's low MTOW 772ER's likewise cannot run a number of UA transpac routes (ORD-HKG, just as an example). Some of these airlines' routes require the VLA capacity, but not many.

NW has downsized a number of its pacific routes from 747s to A330 recently, despite the tight slot situation at NRT. Their strategy is to go more point to point, connecting more cities to their NRT hub and directly to other asian cities. That's what their 787 order is about... on some routes, 787 is replacing 747, like JFK-NRT.

I honestly don't see that many routes where NW needs the VLA - perhaps their DTW-NRT, and a couple of their intra-asian routes, but there are not that many. I could much sooner see NW going with an A346/777-300ER sized aircraft with more flexibility, as their 747-400s have been simply too big.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
jacobin777
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 8):
This guy is too much 'talk' if you ask me. He reminds me of his boy, Tim Clark.

 rotfl 

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 10):
Clark, well, we'll see in a few years if EK meets his expectations, but SUH is a pillar of the industry.

Once EK gets their A380's and their B777's (assuming they will), they will be the largest operators of both fleets in the world... Wow!
"Up the Irons!"
 
na
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:28 am

UA and NWA both have a 744 fleet whose age reaches from almost new (4years) to 19 years (The 747-400 prototype which is with NWA), time to think about how to replace the older ones (NWA has 10 which are 16 years and older). Both airlines will need a VLA for their trunk routes.
 
jsquared
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:52 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 15):
UA and NW are both in the interesting position of having 747-400 be the longest range aircraft in their fleet. NW's A330's can't run most of their transpac routes. UA's low MTOW 772ER's likewise cannot run a number of UA transpac routes (ORD-HKG, just as an example). Some of these airlines' routes require the VLA capacity, but not many.

I started a thread about NW and the 748 a while back, and had a lot of interesting responses about the likelihood of NW picking a few up down the road.

RE: Northwest And The 748? (by ImperialEagle Oct 21 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Do we know how many, if any, of NWs current 744s are leased? Or 330s for that matter? I guess what I'm asking is, does NW have a history of leasing widebodies?

One might think that replacing the 744s with 748s would be easier than to introduce a brand new type (say 77W), although I suppose that there's enough differences between the 744 and 748 to make this a moot point. And as others pointed out in the aforementioned thread, the fact that NW ordered RR engines on their 787s wont help the 748 cause. I guess they'll just have to order enough 748s to make the new engine type worth it...

[Edited 2007-03-26 19:54:56]
 
flysherwood
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
Once EK gets their A380's and their B777's (assuming they will), they will be the largest operators of both fleets in the world...

Let's hope that they show a profit. Having the largest of anything means nothing if you can't make a profit. Just ask JAL what it meant to be the largest operator of the 747 at one time.
 
atnight
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:19 am

Which company is right now's Boeing's #1? and how do the manufacturers consider their #1 customer? by ordered aircraft numbers or by $$$ spent? I would think it would be by $$$ spent, but I would like to know for sure... and is really ILFC Airbus' #1? Thanks for the answers...
B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
 
dhefty
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 10):

I really don't understand what Mr. Udvar-Hazy is referring to. ILFC has always been Boeing's largest leasing customer in terms of total orders over the years:

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...pageid=m25064&RequestTimeout=20000

GECAS is far behind:

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...pageid=m25064&RequestTimeout=20000

GECAS does have a slightly larger backlog, but has not ordered any 787's and therefore the value of their 100 orders in the backlog is less than ILFC's.

American Airlines is Boeing's largest customer, but it's primarily due to the large numbers of MD orders before Boeing purchased MD.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting NA (Reply 17):
UA and NWA both have a 744 fleet whose age reaches from almost new (4years) to 19 years (The 747-400 prototype which is with NWA), time to think about how to replace the older ones (NWA has 10 which are 16 years and older). Both airlines will need a VLA for their trunk routes.

Their planning will be complicated by route fragmentation as they and other US carriers overfly NRT to establish more direct routes to cities in Asia.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
airtran737
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:30 am

Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
boeingbus
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting NA (Reply 17):
UA and NWA both have a 744 fleet whose age reaches from almost new (4years) to 19 years (The 747-400 prototype which is with NWA), time to think about how to replace the older ones (NWA has 10 which are 16 years and older). Both airlines will need a VLA for their trunk routes.

 checkmark 

Additionally, both airlines have a positive Airbus experience with many follow on orders, which means that this will be hard fought battle for both Airbus and Boeing.

I personally believe the 748 has an edge but the A380 has a lot going for it. Just the marketing alone is worth millions... who doesn't want to fly the largest jumbo jet? The A380 does draw excitement and sense modernity that the 748 may not have through marketing.

At the end of the day economics win... so once there are real numbers on the A380 and more information on the 748 than we can have a better prediction.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 24):

I personally believe the 748 has an edge but the A380 has a lot going for it. Just the marketing alone is worth millions... who doesn't want to fly the largest jumbo jet? The A380 does draw excitement and sense modernity that the 748 may not have through marketing.

The 747-8I will have the 787 interior (with a few 777 pieces). From the outside, the A380 may seem more modern, but that may not be the case from within the cabin.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
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Byrdluvs747
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:04 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 24):
I personally believe the 748 has an edge but the A380 has a lot going for it.

In terms of UA and NW, the 748 has more than an edge. It almost qualifies as a guarantee.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 24):
Just the marketing alone is worth millions.

So are the costs.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 24):
who doesn't want to fly the largest jumbo jet?

Maybe, but who want's to be stuck with all that capacity when the next downturn comes? I remember reading posts about near empty 747s when the SARS epidemic broke out.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 24):
At the end of the day economics win...

I think with US carriers risk also factors in greatly.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
does he seriously think NW / UA are interested in A380s?

United and Northwest are like the two biggest Airbus customers in the world (OK and US Airways) and the A380 is a perfect fit for both in the Pacific. I think it's a 50/50 between the 747 and A380 but to say they're not even interested in the A380 is wishful thinking. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if one or both buy it. In my gut, I say NW are the more likely.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
flysherwood
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 27):
I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if one or both buy it. In my gut, I say NW are the more likely.

And on what route exactly would NWA use the A380 on? They have several 787 on order which indicates that the hub at NRT is going to be used less and less. Even JAL and ANA are going to the 777 for international flights out of there. The 748 is a stretch as it is. An A380? I don't think so.
 
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keesje
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 28):
And on what route exactly would NWA use the A380 on?

More of the same, not losing market share.

AMS-DTW
AMS-MSP
AMS-JFK/EWR
AMS-LAX

above flights in the NWA / KLM North Atlantic JV, so KLM/AF have to agree.

DTW-NRT
MSP-NRT
SEA-NRT
LAX-NRT
DTW- PEK / SVG?

Don´t hang on current capasity to much, airtraffic is supposed to tripple in the next 20 yrs according to Boeing and Airbus.
Current growth is approx. 6% / yr, so in 1012 yrs..40% more seats to not lose market share?

Same goes for UA, BA & CX. Leahy is patient, no more discounts.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
na
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 26):
Maybe, but who want's to be stuck with all that capacity when the next downturn comes? I remember reading posts about near empty 747s when the SARS epidemic broke out.

777, or 787, A330s will be equally empty in such a case, and to make business in normal times, airlines need to buy more of them and pay more crews if opting for the "small is beautiful"-alternative.
 
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zeke
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting 2wingtips (Thread starter):
He mentioned CX

Well he is wrong then, and no one has been talking to him from CX about a 748. CX are evaluating all aircraft on the market, or coming to the market, that is not an indication of anything further, and from what I hear, BA is the same.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 6):
I wonder if we'll see any A380 748 orders this year?

CX, BA, NZ, SA, NW, UA, MH, IB?
come visit the south pacific
 
mham001
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
Well he is wrong then, and no one has been talking to him from CX about a 748. CX are evaluating all aircraft on the market, or coming to the market, that is not an indication of anything further, and from what I hear, BA is the same.

And you would know all about his private conversations?
 
airfrnt
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 29):
Same goes for UA, BA & CX. Leahy is patient, no more discounts.

If Airbus doesn't discount any more, Boeing will win the remaining orders. Airbus is still 300 frames in the hole to break even, and hundreds more need to be ordered before they show any sort of meager profit.

There will be plenty of discounts on every order coming... but I don't think any of the US carriers will order a 380 or 747 sized aircraft. They have learned from their mistakes.
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting 2wingtips (Thread starter):
Interestingly, SUH gave a clear indication that ILFC was about to make a Boeing purchase, when he said we are Airbus' #1 customer but only Boeing's # 2 customer. Reference was made that ILFC used to be Boeing's #1 customer and that is where they want to be.

Seems like a pretty juvenile thing to do, compete for the top spot on Boeing's books.  Yeah sure

Is there any plausible advantage of being a manufacturer's top costumer? News to me if there is...
 
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Stitch
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 35):
Is there any plausible advantage of being a manufacturer's top costumer? News to me if there is...

Better pricing?

Better delivery positions?

Better after-sales support?

More input into - or your input has more weight - in the design for next generation programs?

McNerney and Carson take your calls on the first ring?
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 35):
Seems like a pretty juvenile thing to do, compete for the top spot on Boeing's books.

Is there any plausible advantage of being a manufacturer's top costumer? News to me if there is...

right now? oh yah there is. you get more pricing power, and configuration control the bigger you are. If you are Podunk airlines with a near scrap 737-200 and you go to order a plane new, expect to get taken to the woodshed on pricing. If you are WN you don't even have to ask for the best deal cause Boeing won't dare let you go to the other guy.

ILFC wants to get to the point where they own enough of all the planes in demand, and have enough of the impossible to get slots that they make money off of all the "podunk airlines" in the world either reselling your discounted frames, or by leasing them. Boeing wins too, though its a tough sell to the sales department why ILFC should get the small fish instead of them. If you do let companies like ILFC feed the small airlines and on up, you get a nifty bonus on the production side... far less varients of your aircraft. So its less interior configurations to design, test, certify and build.
 
zvezda
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 15):
UA and NW are both in the interesting position of having 747-400 be the longest range aircraft in their fleet. NW's A330's can't run most of their transpac routes. UA's low MTOW 772ER's likewise cannot run a number of UA transpac routes (ORD-HKG, just as an example). Some of these airlines' routes require the VLA capacity, but not many.

UA have seven routes that require (or soon will require) VLA capacity due to slot or frequency restrictions. They need a fleet of twelve VLA aircraft to operate those seven routes. All of their other long-range routes could be served by 787s or A350s -- in some cases by adding frequencies.
 
aerohottie
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 38):
UA have seven routes that require (or soon will require) VLA capacity due to slot or frequency restrictions. They need a fleet of twelve VLA aircraft to operate those seven routes. All of their other long-range routes could be served by 787s or A350s -- in some cases by adding frequencies.

What would these 7 routes be?
What?
 
zvezda
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:48 am

Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 39):
What would these 7 routes be?

ORD-PEK
ORD-PVG
SFO-PEK
SFO-PVG
SFO-NRT
LAX-NRT
ORD-NRT

All other UA routes now operating the 747-400 could use A350s or 787s operating at higher frequencies. If the US and China were to sign an Open Skies treaty, then it wouldn't make sense for UA to operate VLAs just for NRT as A350s or 787 would be able to overfly NRT and the opening of the 2nd runway will ease slot congestion.
 
Danny
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:55 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 40):
All other UA routes now operating the 747-400 could use A350s or 787s operating at higher frequencies.

This is only your theory Zvezda. It does not allow for any growth not too mention adding frequencies at for example FRA or LHR is difficult to say the least.
 
jfk777
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RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:00 am

SUH is the high priest of airline customers, if he sees the 748's day coming who are any of us to say he is wrong. The a380 is just too big for except for ten airports worldwide. LAX, SFO, SYD, NRT, SIN, Dubai, LHR, CDG,HKG and FRA are the only one seeing it reguarly. JFK will see from AF and LH once a day each, for all the 777, 767 and 744 flying to New York that is nada.
 
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Stitch
Posts: 27230
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 41):
It does not allow for any growth not too mention adding frequencies at for example FRA or LHR is difficult to say the least.

But will UA want to add frequencies to LHR or FRA?

Right now, UA splits half the revenues for everything going into FRA with LH, so why not let LH do the "heavy lifting" with the A388 and 748I and UA can appeal to their core premium (UGS and corporate) fliers with a handful of daily 777s/787s/A350XWBs.

As to LHR, UA continues to downsize their operation there and Open Skies would make BD a more effective codesharing partner both at LHR and around the UK which would reduce the pressure on UA to increase traffic.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 41):
This is only your theory Zvezda.

No, it's a fact that UA could replace 747-400s on their other routes with A350s or 787s operating at higher frequencies. Whether or not it would be the best business decision is debatable. That's it's possible is not just a theory.  Yeah sure

Quoting Danny (Reply 41):
It does not allow for any growth

Increasing frequency is a means to growth.

Quoting Danny (Reply 41):
adding frequencies at for example FRA or LHR is difficult to say the least.

UA have five slot pairs at LHR that they are not presently using (leased to VS for now). It's been about ten years since UA flew 747s into LHR and those were 747-200s. UA occasionally put a 747-400 on ORD-FRA in the summer only (not every year), but slots are not a problem for UA at FRA because they can borrow them from LH. Note that UA recently added a third daily IAD-FRA, for a total of five daily including the two codeshares operated by LH.
 
777law
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:16 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 27):
United and Northwest are like the two biggest Airbus customers in the world (OK and US Airways) and the A380 is a perfect fit for both in the Pacific. I think it's a 50/50 between the 747 and A380 but to say they're not even interested in the A380 is wishful thinking. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if one or both buy it. In my gut, I say NW are the more likely.

Huh?

UA flys a couple A319's and A320's and that's it -- hardly the making of "one of the biggest Airbus customers in the world" -- the vast majority of the UA fleet is Boeing.

NW -- yeah they fly the A319/20 and the A330, but again, I would be suprised if NW's Airbus fleet came close to being one of the world's largest. Not only that but NW's A330's will probably be phased out as NW starts taking delivery of the 787.

I think it's pretty much wishful thinking on Airbus' part to seriously consider an order for the A380 from either NW or UA. I think a 773 order is much more likely for both, followed by a 748 order. I think the A380 is just too big for both airlines.
If its not a Boeing I ain't going
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting 777law (Reply 45):
UA flys a couple A319's and A320's and that's it -- hardly the making of "one of the biggest Airbus customers in the world"

UA have 152 Airbii plus 42 on order.
 
boeingbus
Posts: 1544
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 12:37 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:46 am

Quoting 777law (Reply 45):
UA flys a couple A319's and A320's and that's it -- hardly the making of "one of the biggest Airbus customers in the world" -- the vast majority of the UA fleet is Boeing.

United flies over 100 A320 series aircraft... its owns one of top Airbus A320 fleets...
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3832
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 29):
Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 28):
And on what route exactly would NWA use the A380 on?

More of the same, not losing market share.

AMS-DTW
AMS-MSP
AMS-JFK/EWR
AMS-LAX

No, No, No , No....

Quoting Keesje (Reply 29):


DTW-NRT
MSP-NRT
SEA-NRT
LAX-NRT
DTW- PEK / SVG?

Likely, Likely, No, Yes, Maybe
 
Danny
Posts: 3752
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy On The 748I

Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 44):
UA could replace 747-400s on their other routes with A350s or 787s

Just so you know, traffic will triple in the next 20 yeas (according to Boeing as well).

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