380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

JAAlbert · Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:38 pm

The photos and trip reports of those lucky enough to travel on the A380 demonstration flights have almost all commented on how quiet the cabin is. Noise from the engines and airconditioning system over a long flight can really wear a passenger (such as myself) down. A significant decrease in cabin noise should make for a much more pleasant flight and could tip passenger preference to the quieter plane. With this in mind, will Boeing's 748 have a similarly quiet cabin? What is Boeing doing to match the noise levels? And what accounts for the quiet 380 cabin? Is it that the engines do not run as high, they are farther away from the cabin on the wing, better insulation?

Of course the 748 has not been built yet, but your thoughts would be interesting

UAEflyer · Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:59 pm

AFAIK the Airbus worked very hard on the A330 to make it the quietest in the air, from inside and outside, and you can feel that when you travel aboard it.
Boeing have a record of being noisy, look at the B744, very noisy

PhilSquares · Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:36 pm

Boeing takes a different approach to the ECS. AFAIK, the 748 will be similar to other Boeings and most likely not the quietest cabin in the sky.

BlatantEcho · Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:36 pm

with noise cx headphones on, I could be on a VC-10 or a A380, and it wouldn't make much difference.

oh technology Smile

chrisrad · Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 1):
AFAIK the Airbus worked very hard on the A330 to make it the quietest in the air, from inside and outside, and you can feel that when you travel aboard it.
Boeing have a record of being noisy, look at the B744, very noisy

Have to agree, having flown nearly every model of both A and B, Airbus is nearly always quieter in the cabin. The 744 and 777's particulary noisey I find.

khobar · Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:12 pm

One of the reasons for the quiet A380 cabin is a) where you sit and b) where the engines are hung (they are further away from the cabin). There are plenty of videos on youtube.com, etc. that demonstrate a noisy A380 cabin and a quiet 747 cabin and visa versa just the same way as there are videos that demonstrate a noisy A380 field-op versus a 747. Although the monitoring equipment says otherwise, perception plays a big part.

One must also remember that the A380's smaller noise footprint over the 747 is due to it's better climb performance.

I was unimpressed with the T7 up front on BA. I was expecting it to be quieter. On the plus side - I didn't have to listen to everyone else chatter. Wink

christopherwoo · Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:12 pm

on the same topic of cabins, i flew back with easyjet from charles de gaulle to luton the other day on one of our 737 700's. I was shocked at the inside of the cabin, it was like we were back in the 1970's! are all cabins on the 737 ng dingy with rectangle windows and nasty lighting? compared to our A319's it was just awful!

GBan · Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:59 pm

Quoting Chrisrad (Reply 4):
Have to agree, having flown nearly every model of both A and B, Airbus is nearly always quieter in the cabin. The 744 and 777's particulary noisey I find.

I agree with this, and I'd add that the 340 seems to be particulary quiet.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 5):
One of the reasons for the quiet A380 cabin is a) where you sit and b) where the engines are hung (they are further away from the cabin). There are plenty of videos on youtube.com, etc. that demonstrate a noisy A380 cabin and a quiet 747 cabin and visa versa just the same way as there are videos that demonstrate a noisy A380 field-op versus a 747. Although the monitoring equipment says otherwise, perception plays a big part.

And disagree here. You can't make any judgment by watching videos on youtube - the recording equipment used has a big influence. Measured noise levels and personal experience are certainly more valid than sound levels on (low quality) videos.

Emirates029 · Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:14 pm

The A346 is very very quiet

halls120 · Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 3):
with noise cx headphones on, I could be on a VC-10 or a A380, and it wouldn't make much difference.

EI321 · Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:23 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 9):
Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 3):
with noise cx headphones on, I could be on a VC-10 or a A380, and it wouldn't make much difference.

But how many passengers on a plane own noise headphones. Its not exactly a comfortable way to spend a flight, esp if you want to talk to someone.

Rivet42 · Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:55 pm

The biggest problem I find is not noise itself, but the amount of low frequency vibration. For that, the worst by far in my experience has been the B.777 - I was quite alarmed on a BA flight, seated about half-way down the Club World cabin, to notice a strong cyclical vibration, with a wavelength of several seconds. I've not noticed that on any other type, Boeing or Airbus. I imagine it was due to the rev setting on the engines, manifested as a standing wave by the airframe, but quite disturbing when trying to sleep (clearly I hadn't drunk enough bubbly!!).

PhiL P

CXfirst · Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:02 pm

At LHR a few years ago, airbus had big banners saying that their A340 was the quietest cabin in the sky (as well as the longest for the A346). When compared to the 777, which is comparable in size and technology, the A340 beats the 777 in quietness hands down. So I presume that the about equally technologically advanced A380 will be far quieter than the 748. From the start Airbus have been focusing that on the media, even before the first one was built, while Boeing hasn't even mentioned it.

-CXfirst

EI321 · Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
When compared to the 777, which is comparable in size and technology, the A340 beats the 777 in quietness hands down.

The 777-300ER is a big, noisy, piledriver of an aircraft!

halls120 · Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:53 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 10):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 9):
Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 3):
with noise cx headphones on, I could be on a VC-10 or a A380, and it wouldn't make much difference.

But how many passengers on a plane own noise headphones. Its not exactly a comfortable way to spend a flight, esp if you want to talk to someone.

Most of my flying is solo, so I don't care that I can't talk to my seatmate.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
So I presume that the about equally technologically advanced A380 will be far quieter than the 748.

You can presume it when you have no idea what Boeing is going to do with the 748?

Wow.

CHRISBA777ER · Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:00 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 13):
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
When compared to the 777, which is comparable in size and technology, the A340 beats the 777 in quietness hands down.

The 777-300ER is a big, noisy, piledriver of an aircraft

I found the 777 to be very noisy. A345 quietest I've ever been on, I'd say, although A343 comes close.

khobar · Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting GBan (Reply 7):
And disagree here. You can't make any judgment by watching videos on youtube - the recording equipment used has a big influence. Measured noise levels and personal experience are certainly more valid than sound levels on (low quality) videos.

Measured noise levels seem to be much like computer benchmarks.

As for youtube, I think if you reread what I wrote you'll see that you are essentially restating my point.

As for personal experience - personal experience indicates, field-wise, the A380 is just as noisy as a 747 despite what the measured noise levels indicate, as has been reported by a number of people now.

AA777 · Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:02 am

I never found the 777 to be excessively noisy, esp when compared to almost every other aircraft type. Its better than all other Boeing series, except maybe the 737 NGs? In any case.... what I DO know is that the A332 is extremely quiet. Its the only plane that I've sat in economy class, and felt like I could have a normal conversation without raising my voice to be heard. Truly a nice, comfortable airplane. And KLM's AVOD didnt hurt either Smile

-AA777

EI321 · Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting AA777 (Reply 17):
Its better than all other Boeing series, except maybe the 737 NGs?

I remember reading that the 737NG has the noisiest cockpit of any modern airliner, is this true?

sparkingwave · Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:30 am

Interior cabin noise levels vary by plane, by where you are sitting in the aircraft, and what phase the airplane is in while flying (takeoff, cruise, descent, landing), what altitude the pilot is flying the craft, and other variables, including your mood and health.

I've actually found the B777 to be nice and quiet, and no other aircraft to be more so. I've flown on the A330 and it wasn't significantly quieter.

I don't know any aircraft that's going to make you feel like you're in a library.

I'm sure the 748 will be taking lessons from the 787 on improving overall interior passenger comfort. so we'll be able to expect quieter cabins.

SparkingWave ~~~

Stratofortress · Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:35 am

Doesnt level of noise primarily depend on your location within the aircraft. I was seated in the very first row on an MD-80 and it was the quitest ride I have ever experienced. On the other hand, if you are seated towards the back, good luck enjoying the flight without noise cancelling headphones.

With 380 being so big, it means that a large number of seats are placed further away from the engines allowing for a quiter ride for a larger number of people. (In addition to lay out, the design was geared toward lowering the noise).

As for the 747-8, one would assume that the quiter GenEx engines will help lower the noise, and I certainly hope that we have learned something about improved noise insulation since we built the last itteration of 747s.

My experience with the T7 was, in one word: Noisy!... Given I was seated towards the end of the cabin. If only I could have sat in the front.

So, like with all real estate.... Location, location, location.

egnr · Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:41 am

When I flew with SAS CPH-SEA on an A343, I was stunned as to just how quiet the cabin was.

When I have flown with Ryanair, I have always been surprised at how noisy the 738's cabin is. The BAe 146 is not particualrly quiet in the cabin either... but noiseist cabin I've experienced is on a BAC 1-11 Smile

jacobin777 · Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 15):
I found the 777 to be very noisy. A345 quietest I've ever been on, I'd say, although A343 comes close.

I found noise cancellation headphones to cure all noise problems...even if sitting next to a Trent 892.... Wink

mustang304 · Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:56 am

A lot of statements on how noisy aircraft are. Did any of you guys never flew in the old non-turbofan days? Anyone here remember the noise levels on a 707, 727, DC-8 or a DC-9 in the back? How about the IL-76 or a Concorde?

The new airliners (777 included) are *ALL* much better than the old jets. I've never had an issue with the noise level in the new aircraft. While some are slightly better, like the A340/A330 and 747 Upper deck, the newer aircraft interior noise is significantly less, except for the location near the toilets. In fact, I actually like to notice the noise that is specific to a particular aircraft. The 777 fans have a particular whine that is different and unique. Airbus A319s have unique motor noises and funky taxi clunks. Spoilers on most aircraft provide that cool, feel it in the floor and in your seat low frequency rumble. MD-80s with their loud thrust reversers.

Heck even the newer turbo-props are better on noise than the older turbo-props. As GBAN stated above, you can't judge noise levels from video, as the levels can be different for different hardware. And as far as the 747-800, we'll have to wait and see when it rolls out, but I'd expect it to be significantly better than the 747-400.

billreid · Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:00 am

What is interesting is that the A380 is quiet and according to Emirates grossly overweight.
This is a great trade off. Nice customer service at a loss for the airlines.
Perhaps all that weight is filtering out so much noise confused

As I work in this industry I would rather have 10% more noise and profitability! twocents

zeke · Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Thread starter):
And what accounts for the quiet 380 cabin? Is it that the engines do not run as high, they are farther away from the cabin on the wing, better insulation?

Airbus has always put a lot of effort in aircraft noise levels, and have as an option additional insulation packages such as EK use in their first class cabin to make things quieter still.

Flight testing of aircraft in cruise has shown that the 380 is over 5 dB quieter than a 744 or 773ER, results measured have the cabin noise levels during cruise of :

A380 56 dBSIL
A346 58 dBSIL
773ER 61 dBSIL
744 63 dBSIL

In practical terms, the 5 dB noise level difference between the 773ER/744 and the A380 would be like standing 2' infront of a TV and adjusting the volume to a normal conversation level, then moving back about 10', that would be about 5 dB difference in noise level.

It is not too bad if you are actually watching the TV, but obviously trying to sleep when further away from the TV it is quieter.

Quoting BillReid (Reply 24):
What is interesting is that the A380 is quiet and according to Emirates grossly overweight.

What config, and what type of 380 is EK referring to ? they have 3 types on order .... and what are we talking about in terms of a percentage of MTOW ? From what I have seen, and other airlines have seen, it is on weight targets, but I don't know what is in EKs contract.

EI321 · Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 24):
What is interesting is that the A380 is quiet and according to Emirates grossly overweight.

Clark says that the A380 is 6 tonnes heavier than what was originally ordered. Its also known that the aircraft is within performance guarentees. So how will this cost more money? And how is the 10% figure you quote in any way relevant, or even realistic?

Quote:

A spokeswoman for Airbus countered that the plane is meeting performance guarantees even if its maximum takeoff weight is 1 percent over the specification, which was set at 569 metric tons.

"Nothing has changed with regard to the weight of the A380 for the past three years," spokeswoman Barbara Kracht said in a phone interview from Airbus headquarters. "Flight test results have demonstrated we are meeting the guaranteed performance."

pygmalion · Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 25):
Flight testing of aircraft in cruise has shown that the 380 is over 5 dB quieter than a 744 or 773ER, results measured have the cabin noise levels during cruise of :

Zeke, do you have a source for this?
Thanks

Motorhussy · Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 3):
with noise cx headphones on, I could be on a VC-10 or a A380, and it wouldn't make much difference.

So on a long-haul flight you obviously choose to stay in your seat as much as possible and not get up to relieve yourself or stretch your legs, such bladder control! What do you do when asked by the cabin crew what you'd like to drink or eat?

flydreamliner · Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:09 am

The A330/340 is a very quiet aircraft. I find that 777 and 767 are louder on takeoff, but at cruise, the are not THAT much louder. You make it sound like they are like riding a DC-9 or something. 777 is perfectly comfortable... 744 can be loud.

Boeing says 787 will be the quietest plane to fly on in the sky, so hopefully some of that technology makes it over to 747-8.

It also makes a difference where on the plane you are seated.

zeke · Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 27):
Zeke, do you have a source for this?

Just some briefing material presented to airlines.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 29):
Boeing says 787 will be the quietest plane to fly on in the sky, so hopefully some of that technology makes it over to 747-8.

The 380 cabin level now is apparently below what the target level is for the 787, so I fail to see how it will be the "quietest plane to fly on in the sky".

777236ER · Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 30):
Just some briefing material presented to airlines.

By who? Posting numbers without any reference is pointless.

ourboeing · Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:22 am

I live near BWI airport and I can easily tell when an A318-321 are flying over my house. The engines, particularly on this Airbus type are extremely loud as compared to 737NGs.

BTW, a lot of Northwest, Americawest (now US Air) Airbus fly in and out of BWI.

halls120 · Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 28):
Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 3):
with noise cx headphones on, I could be on a VC-10 or a A380, and it wouldn't make much difference.

So on a long-haul flight you obviously choose to stay in your seat as much as possible and not get up to relieve yourself or stretch your legs, such bladder control! What do you do when asked by the cabin crew what you'd like to drink or eat?

When I get up to visit the lav, or the F/A asks what I want to eat, I take off my headphones. No big deal. Smile

You can have the quietest plan around (engineering-wise) yet still need headphones. Like the time I was surrounded by two dozen teenagers on a school trip to Europe that just couldn't sleep...

adizzy · Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:32 am

I do agree with most that airbus cabins do tend to be quieter than most boeing plane. However the quietest cabin i have experience thus far is that of the....

E190!!! It has a very quiet cabin!

I love Boeing jets and find that the 757 has the quietest cabin across the BOEING! It comes neck and neck with an Airbus! I love the 757!

CF-CPI · Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:48 am

If the A380 approaches anything like the A340-300 in cruise, it will be incredibly quiet and vibration-free.

My experience with the 777s is mixed. I rode on a CO machine, with the GE90, and sat in the engine line. During cruise there was surprisingly little vibration, but there was tons of it on spool-up and spool-down at the gate at the moment when the rpms matched some resonance in the fuselage. OTOH, I have flown on two UA 777s, equipped with the P&W engine, and there seemed to be quite a bit of vibration on takeoff, as well as that low frequency rumbling someone mentioned, which continued throughout cruise. I haven't tried the RR 777s yet. Have others had the same experience?

zeke · Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 31):
Posting numbers without any reference is pointless.

Presentations made to airlines are not on the internet, so it is pointless asking for a reference which I cannot provide, you will just have to take my word for it.

You will find the noise levels I listed are equivalent to noise levels one would find in a normal household, some parts of a house are noisier than others.

flyabunch · Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 6):
on the same topic of cabins, i flew back with easyjet from charles de gaulle to luton the other day on one of our 737 700's. I was shocked at the inside of the cabin, it was like we were back in the 1970's! are all cabins on the 737 ng dingy with rectangle windows and nasty lighting? compared to our A319's it was just awful!

I don't get this at all. I fly almost equally on 737 NG's and A319/320's and I think the noise is about the same. As far as the dingy 1970's cabin, I take issue with that too. The NG cabins are every bit as nice as the Airbus cabins. It is all in how the airlines furnish them.

On the big jets, the 777 and 747 vs the 340's, I think the 340's are slightly quieter. But, there is not enough difference to make me want to always pick the Airbus. Where you sit on a particular plane is still a huge factor. I still think the quietest planes are the MD-80 series planes when you are sitting forward. They are the worst when in the back.

Mike

Jpax · Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
When compared to the 777, which is comparable in size and technology, the A340 beats the 777 in quietness hands down

Perhaps that can be the final sales pitch from Airbus for the A340 versus the 777?

"The 340 is slower and less efficient, but hell, it sure is quieter!"

You never know, some airlines with money to fling around may buy into it! Wink

UA772IAD · Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:08 am

I haven't really noticed a significant difference in A v. B. I think that the 777 is pretty quiet, but maybe its because I've flown them enough or like to hear the engines to notice a difference. What I have noticed is that engines sound on Airbuses seem to "throb" like a heart while in cruise. The fact is though, its not really the engine noise that's loud, its the slipstream, the air past the fusalage at higher speeds that makes most of the noise from the cabin. The engines are relatively quiet during take-off and descent/landing, even if you're sitting next to them.

I do think its great that Airbus is working to make quieter aircraft, but I do think it's perception. The fact is, most people don't care or notice. The wallet is the driving factor. To quote Smithsonian Air & Space curator Robert van der Linden, "most passengers don't have any idea what kind of aircraft they're flying on, and they don't care. It's get me home, on time and do it for as little money as possible". I can't see the common public (or an airline for that matter) choosing to fly either Boeing or Airbus because one is quiter. The seasoned and frequent flyers know to bring noise cancelling headsets, or other ways of distraction. The rest, don't fly enough to care.

Stitch · Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:17 am

I don't really notice the noise, myself, having flown so much I just get used to it. I'm always up front, which helps, I guess.

The A320 family is quiter then the 737 Classic at least on UA, but the 737NG's I have flown on AS have been pretty quiet.

I do recall the L-1011 and A300 were both noticeably more quiet then the 767 when I flew on them in quick succession on TW.

The 777 doesn't strike me as loud (but then I am so fond of her I imagine I just look past her faults) and having yet to fly on an A330 or A340, I cannot compare them directly.

Motorhussy · Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting Jpax (Reply 38):
"The 340 is slower and less efficient, but hell, it sure is quieter!"

LOL!

autothrust · Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 39):
The fact is, most people don't care or notice.

Wrong, only tourists and leisure passanger care less but any businessman flying almost whole year will care a lot. And i know some wich try to avoid to fly on a 777 because the noise levels compared to the A340/330. Its not they wouldnt like the 777 but from my experience i can only agree. As much as i love the 747 classics, the 744 is better compared to the old IMO but still noisy. And between the 737 and A320 there is no notable diffrence for me. I expect the 748 be a little less quiter then the 744 but not in the same class as the A380.

Superfly · Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 3):
with noise cx headphones on, I could be on a VC-10 or a A380, and it wouldn't make much difference.

Well according to Vickers ad campaign, a flight on a VC-10 was as quiet as an English meadow. Wink

Anyone here remember that ad from National Geograhic magazines back in the 1960s?

na · Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:51 am

Seems everybody agrees that Airbusses are generally quieter than Boeings, inside and out. Thats also my experience, the A340-600 being the quietest aircraft I´ve ever flown in. Very positive though is also the Fokker 100, not mentioned in this thread so far.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 29):
Boeing says 787 will be the quietest plane to fly on in the sky, so hopefully some of that technology makes it over to 747-8.

Well, engines are usually the single most important noise factor on airplanes, and the 747-8I will have almost the same engines as the 787, and similar interior design/materials, so expect it to be considerably quieter than the 744, which, I must agree, didn´t set any positive standards here. First class in the front of a 744 though is quiet.

Tugger · Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 28):
So on a long-haul flight you obviously choose to stay in your seat as much as possible and not get up to relieve yourself or stretch your legs, such bladder control! What do you do when asked by the cabin crew what you'd like to drink or eat?

Actually, I just leave them on and go the lav or speak with the F/A's with them on. Never had a problem so far.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 36):
Presentations made to airlines are not on the internet, so it is pointless asking for a reference which I cannot provide, you will just have to take my word for it.

I believe the "reference" 777236ER was wondering about was WHO was providing the presentation materials? If it was a Boeing presentation saying the Airbus was quieter that would be one thing, if an independent party (TRULY independent, which is very hard to find in my opinion) is stating it then that would be another, but if it a non-independant party saying they are quieter there may be some "marketing" involved that could skew the numbers a bit (where/when/etc the samples are taken).

On another note, could four vs two engines have a big effect due to resonance? I assume that a twin will have worse resonance than a quad.
Also how are "sound levels" measured? Are they isolated from the airframe somehow and can they filter out engine resonance and airframe vibration? If so that would really make the numbers questionable as we humans are never isolated from those things. Are butts tend to be firmly planted in seats that are directly connected to the floor and frame (humor intended). Just curious.

Tug

777236ER · Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 36):
Presentations made to airlines are not on the internet, so it is pointless asking for a reference which I cannot provide, you will just have to take my word for it.

Which makes your numbers completely useless! Quoting numbers without a source, let alone a proper reference, is worth nothing - anything can do that.

Why dBSIL and not dBA? At what position in the cabin were they measured? At what point during the flight?

antskip · Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:52 am

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 42):
only tourists and leisure passenger care less

that is quite an assumption! word gets around, and given a choice, even "leisure" people will choose the nicer aircraft. they are not idiots. they are very price-aware, but then so is every business person - everyone wants value for dollar. part of the value is the quality of the flight - and aircraft do vary widely in features, just as do airlines. I am probably what you call a "leisure" traveller, but recently was given the choice of a B773ER or a A340 to MEL-DXB. I have flown on both aircraft, often. The A345 is quieter. It was one factor in my decision to fly the A345 over the B777. If I was only offered a B777, would I fly it happily? Of course I would! - so would any "business" traveller.

remcor · Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:20 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 46):
Which makes your numbers completely useless! Quoting numbers without a source, let alone a proper reference, is worth nothing - anything can do that.

Why dBSIL and not dBA? At what position in the cabin were they measured? At what point during the flight?

Chill dude. They're just relative comparisons. You think if he said that a sales manager called Mr. Snodgrass from Airbus gave this speech in October we'd suddenly be more enlightened?

Plus, the numbers he gave roughly match with what everyone else has been saying in this thread.

glideslope · Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting Jpax (Reply 38):
Perhaps that can be the final sales pitch from Airbus for the A340 versus the 777? "The 340 is slower and less efficient, but hell, it sure is quieter!"

LOL. Can use for the 380/748i as well. I see a new strategy coming. Running out of options with the large Boeing orders coming at Paris. dollarsign

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