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adizzy
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:27 am

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:29 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 49):
Quoting Jpax (Reply 38):
Perhaps that can be the final sales pitch from Airbus for the A340 versus the 777? "The 340 is slower and less efficient, but hell, it sure is quieter!"

LOL. Can use for the 380/748i as well. I see a new strategy coming. Running out of options with the large Boeing orders coming at Paris.

Hey at the very least one can say that since the A340 is so much quieter than other airliners....more airlines should pick them up to avoid noise abatement issues....less sounds means more flexibility......so what if it costs a little more!
 
boswashsprstar
Posts: 193
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:21 pm

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting Mustang304 (Reply 23):
Airbus A319s have unique motor noises and funky taxi clunks.

The entire A320 family makes some weird noises when taxiing in my experience--what is that, exactly? I remember being on a flight once where the noises started up again once we were at the gate and kept going for much longer than usual--people started looking around at each other with a sort of, "Glad this didn't happen until after we landed" look.

Quoting ADiZzy (Reply 34):
E190!!! It has a very quiet cabin!

Indeed. All the people on this board that love to complain about the E-jets clearly haven't flown on them, because they're exceptionally quiet, with wide seats, big windows . . . give me an E-jet over a 737 or 320 on a domestic route any day.
 
pilotatheart
Posts: 47
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RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:37 am

I recently flew in an Air Canada A330. I was shocked at how loud and rattley it was. I was expecting a smooth and quiet ride from what I had read about the A330. It sounded like screws were loose and the overhead bins were creaking bad! Upon landing, it sounded like the plane was just gonna collapse on itself. I also noticed that it was rather loud due to the engine noise. Is this normal? The Air Canada A321 that I flew on for the rest of my trip was almost silent! I flew on a United Airlines 777-200 about 4 days prior and it was just as quiet as the A321.
 
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zeke
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RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:42 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 46):

Which makes your numbers completely useless!

Well I found them useful, and I must say my own perception agrees with the relative order, and while Airbus uses SMACSONIC/SMAC CDT (http://www.caoutchouc-elastomere-suspension.com/smac.htm?produits_smac/smacsonic/smacsonic.html) and alike passengers will notice a difference.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 46):

Why dBSIL and not dBA? At what position in the cabin were they measured? At what point during the flight?

All were measurements at the same relative mid cabin point in cruise, dBSIL, a quick google would have found you the following :

"dBSIL: A dBSIL scale indicates the perception of acoustical loudness across the audible frequency range of 500 - 2,000 Hz. dBSIL is an important tool to determine the effect of background noise on speech communication level. While dBSIL levels are usually quite a bit lower than that of the dBA scale, dBSIL is a far better indicator of the ability to communicate within a given environment because the typical human voice range falls within the dBSIL scale. Elevated dBSIL scales in an environment require raised voice levels for effective communication. Additionally, greater hearing loss will occur to the human ear as compared to a corresponding 75 dBA because dBSIL values represent the frequencies which are most harmful to the human ear." from http://www.skandiainc.com/sound5.htm
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
luke7e7
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RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:11 pm

One of the reasons why 777 is louder then A330 is because it has bigger engines, and they produce more thrust, which is more noticeable in the rear of the aircraft. And it is really obvious that A340 will be quieter then 777/A330 because of its 4 small power plants. 748 will be very quiet aircraft due to very modern GEnX engines and 787 technology of insulating the cabin. In my opinion there is no reason for the 748 to be louder then A380.
 
STARalliance24
Posts: 371
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RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:18 pm

Quoting Pilotatheart (Reply 52):
I recently flew in an Air Canada A330. I was shocked at how loud and rattley it was. I was expecting a smooth and quiet ride from what I had read about the A330. It sounded like screws were loose and the overhead bins were creaking bad! Upon landing, it sounded like the plane was just gonna collapse on itself. I also noticed that it was rather loud due to the engine noise. Is this normal? The Air Canada A321 that I flew on for the rest of my trip was almost silent! I flew on a United Airlines 777-200 about 4 days prior and it was just as quiet as the A321.

I've flown on ACA's A330-300 and didnt find it noisy at all. Maybe you experienced alot of turbulence?
 
ikramerica
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RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 25):
A380 56 dBSIL
A346 58 dBSIL
773ER 61 dBSIL
744 63 dBSIL

Yeah, but do you have the dBA numbers? Because if they aren't quoting them to you, maybe there's a reason?

And 63 dBSIL is not very high anyway. 56 is lower, and means you can probably almost whisper and be heard, but neither of them is so high that you must even talk loudly. It's the OTHER sounds that are louder.

dBSIL is fine if you want to have a conversation. But conversation is not the primary concern for people when flying on long flights. dBA factors in the higher frequency sounds that can be quite disturbing to sleep and cause headaches, the higher frequencies that I heard as the A380 tore overhead here at LAX, and seemed to have a higher pitch than the 744 right before it. I am sure the A380 interior insulation will block that out way better than the old 744 stuff.

There's also the higher/whistling sounds coming from the AirCon system, again at frequencies above dBSIL measurements for the most part. The 737/757 for example inundates you with sounds in this range, which is why I will never fly those without ear protection for longer flights.

Another factor with dBSIL. If you get too low a dBSIL background level in an environment with reflective surfaces (like curved plastic walls and ceilings), you'll hear EVERYONE talking. This is one of the major problems with noise canceling headphones. They don't drop dB levels evenly, but on a diminishing scale as frequency increases, because they have a slow response. They can knock down lower frequency hums and rumbles, but they can't knock down high frequencies nor the "random" pattern of people's speech, so they seem to make it EASIER to hear people talking that you want to block out.

The best answer for noise on an aircraft is soft foam earplugs. They block out 25-33dB depending on type and how well they are inserted, and block out frequencies across the board. Combine them with the quiet interior of the A340 or A380 series, and you'll think you are in a quiet hotel room. And you can wear real over/around the ear headphones OVER them at a higher level and still hear your movie. I've yet to have anyone say I was disturbing them using this method, and it's really effective.  Smile
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
WingedMigrator
Posts: 1771
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RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 28):
What do you do when asked by the cabin crew what you'd like to drink or eat?

I'm sorry, I can't hear you; what was that? Big grin

Quoting Tugger (Reply 45):
If it was a Boeing presentation saying the Airbus was quieter

Honestly, do you think such presentations even exist? In marketing, you won't get very far by saying your competitor's product is better than your own. Asking for such a Boeing presentation is downright ridiculous.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 16):
As for personal experience - personal experience indicates, field-wise, the A380 is just as noisy as a 747 despite what the measured noise levels indicate, as has been reported by a number of people now.

Field-wise ain't cabin-wise, which is the topic of this thread. Media reports of the A380 route proving flights have universally noted the low cabin noise levels of the A380. Some even complained about nearby conversations that could now be overheard.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11178
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RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:55 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 56):
The best answer for noise on an aircraft is soft foam earplugs. They block out 25-33dB depending on type and how well they are inserted, and block out frequencies across the board. Combine them with the quiet interior of the A340 or A380 series, and you'll think you are in a quiet hotel room. And you can wear real over/around the ear headphones OVER them at a higher level and still hear your movie. I've yet to have anyone say I was disturbing them using this method, and it's really effective. Smile

I always used to do this before I was given NC headphones. I do actually find earplugs superior in most ways to the headphones, you can sleep in them easier, they block out more noise more completely, and you don't have anything on your ears (which gets a bit bothersome after a few hours). And it is cheaper! Pennies for the earplugs and my inexpensive Sony MDR's. The ONLY things I found to be a problem were that my MP3 player ran down much faster and that a movies quiet parts are harder to hear (need to have volume equalization). Oh yeah, and it can be hard to talk with the F/A's with them in. But otherwise: 1st choice - earplugs; 2nd choice - NC headphones.

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 57):
Quoting Tugger (Reply 45):
If it was a Boeing presentation saying the Airbus was quieter

Honestly, do you think such presentations even exist? In marketing, you won't get very far by saying your competitor's product is better than your own. Asking for such a Boeing presentation is downright ridiculous.

Nah! No way!  Big grin I was more after making a point, implying that the source adds credibility or takes it away (you can see that in the full post). I almost added this comment: "(for which Randy would have a looooong conversation with or fire the employee who created the presentation)" but obviously I thought it was a bit too obvious to need it. Though in truth I could see it being POSSIBLE that an internal Boeing presentation could say this IF they perceived this to be true and they were presenting it as part of a discussion as to why this is so and how they can improve. And NO ONE who saw this would admit to this being so (would you?).

All good!  Smile

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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autothrust
Posts: 1468
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RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:44 pm

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 39):
The fact is, most people don't care or notice.



Quoting Antskip (Reply 47):
that is quite an assumption! word gets around, and given a choice, even "leisure" people will choose the nicer aircraft. they are not idiots.

Of course you're righ but you missed my point if you read what he wrote and i answered.

Quoting Pilotatheart (Reply 52):
I was shocked at how loud and rattley it was. I was expecting a smooth and quiet ride from what I had read about the A330. It sounded like screws were loose and the overhead bins were creaking bad! Upon landing, it sounded like the plane was just gonna collapse on itself.

A little exaggerating aren't you ? If not it must be a MX problem because on every A330 flight i enjoyed its quiteness compared to other planes.

Quoting BosWashSprStar (Reply 51):
The entire A320 family makes some weird noises when taxiing in my experience

IIRC its the PTU. (Power Transfer Unit) but its better some Airbus Experts answer this.
Flown on: DC-9, MD-80, Fokker 100, Bae 146 Avro, Boeing 737-300, 737-400, 747-200, 747-300,747-400, 787-9, Airbus A310, A319, A320, A321, A330-200,A330-300, A340-313, A380, Bombardier CSeries 100/300, CRJ700ER/CRJ900, Embraer 190.
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
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RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:46 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 57):
Field-wise ain't cabin-wise, which is the topic of this thread.

You are correct. I had lost sight of that fact to the comments about the A380 in general when thinking of a reporter with broadcast quality equipment having difficulty being heard in parts of the A380.

Perhaps now that cell phones look like they are going to get the green light, the "quieter" cabin will allow us all to suffer the endless yakking of others. Thanks a lot.  Wink
 
GBan
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:10 pm

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:30 am

LH comment in todays Süddeutsche Zeitung (German):

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/artikel/824/107717/

Nun, 60000 Flugkilometer und 65 Flugstunden später, zeigt sich Lufthansa-Bereichsvorstand Karl Ulrich Garnadt sehr zufrieden mit dem neuen Flaggschiff seiner Flotte. Der A380 sei deutlich leiser als der Jumbo und außerdem ,,das erste wirkliche Drei-Liter-Flugzeug''.

Translation:

Now, 60000 kilometres and 65 flying hours later Lufthansa Executive Karl Ulrich Garnadt shows himself very satisfied with the new flagship of his fleet. The A380 is significantly quieter than the Jumbo and also "the first real 3 liter airliner".
 
pilotatheart
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:59 am

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 59):
A little exaggerating aren't you ? If not it must be a MX problem because on every A330 flight i enjoyed its quiteness compared to other planes.

Actually, no. I am not exaggerating one bit. In fact, I may be underexaggerating. It was the nosiest flight ever. It felt and sounded like I was riding in a city bus or metro/subway in the sky. Also, there was no turbulence.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15104
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting Pilotatheart (Reply 62):
It felt and sounded like I was riding in a city bus or metro/subway in the sky. Also, there was no turbulence.

Maybe the AirCon system needed fixing? That contributes to quite a bit of cabin noise.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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zeke
Posts: 15703
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:56 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 56):
Yeah, but do you have the dBA numbers?

dBA is a filter that measures the sound level that is less sensitive to very high and very low frequencies, the 3 octave SIL measurement is a standard used in the industry for comparing noise levels. It is quoted by manufactures, from light jets to airlines.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 56):
Because if they aren't quoting them to you, maybe there's a reason?

Its been the standard used for a long time now, just like DNL 65 is used for ground based noise comparisons.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3673
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:03 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 57):
I'm sorry, I can't hear you; what was that?

So what do you do on a 747 when you're hungry and the cabin crew have ignored you over dinner service because you grunt at them when they asked you "Chicken or Fish?"

MH
come visit the south pacific
 
na
Posts: 9812
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:50 pm

Quoting GBan (Reply 61):
LH comment in todays S�ddeutsche Zeitung (German):

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/artikel/824/107717/

Translation:

Now, 60000 kilometres and 65 flying hours later Lufthansa Executive Karl Ulrich Garnadt shows himself very satisfied with the new flagship of his fleet. The A380 is significantly quieter than the Jumbo and also "the first real 3 liter airliner".

Thanks for posting this.
 
JAAlbert
Topic Author
Posts: 1980
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RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:55 pm

I ride lots of 737s and 320s and can't find much difference in the cabin noise levels. I am riding a WN 737 this morning though, so I will pay close attention.

I was on an AA MD-80 last week SAN to DFW, the noise and vibration from the engines in the back of the plane was deafening. Couldn't hear a conversation to save your life. Kinda fun to walk back there and feel the whole plane vibrating, but I'm glad I wasn't one of the passengers stuck back there!
 
EI321
Posts: 5069
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:16 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 67):
I ride lots of 737s and 320s and can't find much difference in the cabin noise levels.

I always thought Ryanair aircraft were noisier compared to Aer Lingus. Theres more of a roar inside the 737.
 
adizzy
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:27 am

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:16 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 67):

I love sitting in the back of the Alitalia's MD-80's. All that vibrating is GREAT! In fact they should put first class in the back of them because they would offer a GREAT new first class amenity......ON BOARD MASSAGE!
 
starguy
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:44 pm

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting Emirates029 (Reply 8):
The A346 is very very quiet

Definitely agree with you there. I work on both the B744 and A346 and I can say that the A346 is quieter in every area of the cabin especially aft of the engines. The B744 roars on throughout every stage of the flight.
 
Glom
Posts: 2056
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:41 am

If someone stuck a 100,000lb engine under your wing, you see how quiet you'd be.
 
na
Posts: 9812
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting StarGuy (Reply 70):
Definitely agree with you there. I work on both the B744 and A346 and I can say that the A346 is quieter in every area of the cabin especially aft of the engines. The B744 roars on throughout every stage of the flight.

Sure the A346 is quieter, but don´t forget that the A346 was developed ca. 15 years after the 744. When the 744 came out, it was a big achievement.
And the future champ in quiet transport seems to be the A380.
 
Lemurs
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:13 am

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:29 am

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 42):
Wrong, only tourists and leisure passanger care less but any businessman flying almost whole year will care a lot.



Quoting Antskip (Reply 47):
that is quite an assumption! word gets around, and given a choice, even "leisure" people will choose the nicer aircraft. they are not idiots. they are very price-aware, but then so is every business person - everyone wants value for dollar.

You're not wrong, but you're dramatically overstating the value. The main driver for business flyers is schedule/convenience, the main driver for leisure travelers is price. There are secondary concerns where the calculations start getting a little more complicated, like FF programs, seat comfort for knowledgable travelers, connection times, etc...the idea that cabin noise makes it into the top 10 is just going too far though. It's one of those: "Everything else about this itinerary is equal, so now I can start evaluating small intangibles...I like the 340 better because it's quieter." things. That's it. You can't win travelers with this feature if you don't compete in the Big Ones, which is why the 340 is losing to the 777 in sales despite the fact that no one disagrees the 340 is more pleasant to fly in, even the Boeing fans.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 58):
Oh yeah, and it can be hard to talk with the F/A's with them in. But otherwise: 1st choice - earplugs; 2nd choice - NC headphones.

You don't have to choose one or the other. Get Etymotic earplug monitors. Best $60 I ever spent. The speakers inside them are of AMAZING quality, and they work just as well as any set of foam earplugs you could ask for. It's really the best of both worlds. The plugs and drivers are so effective, as a matter of fact, that you can hear how poor the IFE sound quality is in many cases. (You can hear the static and clicks just as clearly as the sounds, when at low volume.) Still, when you have a choice, it's the best way to go.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: 380 Vs. 748 Interior Cabin Noise Levels

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:10 am

While I love EK's A330's, I can't say they are the "quitest things in the world" either..

"Up the Irons!"

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