Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 42):
I think employee work and sacrifices and pay cuts played a role also.



Quoting COewrAAtysAZ (Reply 49):
Well said, both of you. It took more than just one guy to do the dirty work that took place for three years.

Everyone got paid.

NS
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:16 pm

Without question if you become the CEO of a multi national corporation such as UAL, you should expect to get paid accordingly. After all, you have a huge amount of responsibility on your shoulders. That being said, $40 million to a company that is treading water in my opinion is fairly ridiculous. It'd be nice to see a CEO with a conscience...one, for instance, who'd say something like "well you know, if I made $40 million, i'd be living well beyond my means...let me give away $20 million of that and spread it around the company in terms of bonuses."...or something to that extent, hell give it to charity! They say that the answer to 99 out of 100 questions is money. People in upper level management have just been so used to the fact that they'll get their huge, inflated salaries that they expect nothing less. Just because I'm shooting for a Master's doesn't mean I expect to make $40 million one day. Obviously these top level CEO's have had their cards fall right in place along the way, and I applaud (most of) them for working their way up and having the vision to take risks and show true leadership. But $40 million....market value or not....that's excessive, for any walk of life. In my opinion, teachers and doctors should possess the highest average salaries in this country. Ha, that'll be the day. We'd rather give the big bucks to someone who hits a baseball or some white collar 50 year old who sits behind a desk on the 50th floor of a skyscraper and drinks bourbon on the rocks all day while answering some phone calls, taking part in vconference calls, and having his assistant prepare charasmatic speeches for him to make to the masses.
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3479
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting Coewraatysaz (Thread starter):
Glenn Tilton is one of the biggest thieves ever. I cannot believe that this is allowed to happen. This just goes to show you union's aren't worth sh*t. You pay all that money in dues and they have no muscle whatsoever to stop all of those wage and benefit cuts from going to the pigheaded bastard's pockets!!!

Glenn Tilton still has a long way to go to catch Leo Mullin!  irked  Leo not only fiddled while ATL burned, but even effectively took DL to the brink as Ken Lay did with Enron. I think Jerry Grinstein summed it up quite well when he said "there is too much of a salary derby out there." That said I do agree with you that with what Tilton is getting paid makes him another "Pig at the Trough."
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 46):
......are you suggesting Tilton "lied and cheated"?

Not at all, but for what he has provided and what hes getting paid its ALMOST the same.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 51):
Without question if you become the CEO of a multi national corporation such as UAL, you should expect to get paid accordingly. After all, you have a huge amount of responsibility on your shoulders.

And pilots with the lives of hundreds dont, or FA's or Maintenance or ground crews? I dont buy it. Just because you clawed your way up to the top through whatever means does not mean you merit such out of proportion pay. Im not saying people dont have the right to be rich, but sometimes theres overkill. Whats he going to do take his surplus money to the grave?

Remember without the employees of any company management would not be rich like they are now.

Quoting JAL777 (Reply 44):
Amazing how its management's fault when a company is in the crapper but the employee's hard work when its doing well.

Because 99.9 % of the time that is the case. Management is out for its own interests, not the customer not the stock holder not the employee. Thats a sad fact about capitalism


What i think is so ridiculous about Tiltons salary is the over valuation of his work compared to the employees. Some of that 40 million could have been used for employee bonuses or company finances, such as increasing service. Instead it goes to some manager with an over inflated sense of achievement. Thats why im angry  Angry
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4548
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 46):
LoL...but hey, you never know....maybe you are cut out to run the show...AA's Arpey started out at AA from the "bottom"...worked his way up, got his pilots license as well as MBA, and now look at him, running one of the largest carriers in the world.... Wink

.....maybe you won't be one of those who let "greed" took over.... Smile

As long as you endorse me, I could use a good counterpart to make and share my $40 mil! LOL!  Wink

I am just glad that UA is alive and well. I give all of my thanks to UA employees, and I hope they get good profit checks. Nothing will make up for what they lost, but without them (EMPLOYEES!), UA may have been lost.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:06 pm

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 53):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 46):
......are you suggesting Tilton "lied and cheated"?

Not at all, but for what he has provided and what hes getting paid its ALMOST the same.

..but the bottom line is he didn't even remotely cheat.. no ..there was no "ALMOST" cheating here..he got what others thought he deserved to get paid..

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 53):
Whats he going to do take his surplus money to the grave?

...lots of taxes first.. Wink

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 53):

Because 99.9 % of the time that is the case. Management is out for its own interests, not the customer not the stock holder not the employee. Thats a sad fact about capitalism

...the beauty of capitalism is that no one is stopping you....remember..."life, liberty and persuit of happiness".... Smile

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 53):

What i think is so ridiculous about Tiltons salary is the over valuation of his work compared to the employees. Some of that 40 million could have been used for employee bonuses or company finances, such as increasing service. Instead it goes to some manager with an over inflated sense of achievement. Thats why im angry Angry

angry for what? he didn't steal, swindle, lie or do anything....

capitalism is what allows people to peform 110% rather than 60%-80% (or even 90-99%)......I wouldn't trade in capitalism for the world... no 

we need people out there who give the 110%, its that rare breed of people who make all the difference...not the average "yo-man"......

take it with the good and bad...for every one "bad" facet of capitalism, there are tens of thousands of "good" facets...Maybe you don't see that?  confused 

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 54):
As long as you endorse me, I could use a good counterpart to make and share my $40 mil! LOL!  Wink

...you got my vote (for now, also, I want to make sure there is something in it for me too-greedy bugger I am)... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:00 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 43):
Nor did he do much to the airline itself. I have not seen much in the way of restructure or fixing up the routes. I also have not seen much in the way of UA rebranding

Are you blind or just stupid? Under Tilton there is a new brand, new livery, new and innovative services and a complete reshuffle of routes to express carriers where UA couldnt make money. In case you are not blind, and just stupid lets revisit a few of these:

1) Ted
2) New livery and branding
3) ExPlus
4) P.S.
5) Soon to be launched updated F and C product
6) Winning the Beijing Route authority
7) Paying down a HUGE amount of UAL debt and renegotiating the existing debt to lower rates
 
JAL777
Posts: 2453
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:13 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:07 pm

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 53):
Management is out for its own interests, not the customer not the stock holder not the employee. Thats a sad fact about capitalism

And what exactly do you think YOU'RE doing when you go to work? You're first priority isn't the company, nor the stock holder, nor your customers, fellow employees. etc. You're first priority (as it should be) is you.
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:53 pm

Quoting Ctheworld (Reply 56):
Are you blind or just stupid? Under Tilton there is a new brand, new livery, new and innovative services and a complete reshuffle of routes to express carriers where UA couldnt make money. In case you are not blind, and just stupid lets revisit a few of these:

1) Ted
2) New livery and branding
3) ExPlus
4) P.S.
5) Soon to be launched updated F and C product
6) Winning the Beijing Route authority
7) Paying down a HUGE amount of UAL debt and renegotiating the existing debt to lower rates

 checkmark 
 
eyes2thesky
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:15 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:11 pm

It's been said that class warfare is going to characterize the 21st century. This thread seems to epitomize that.

IMHO: It's not appropriate to make Tilton out as a villain, any more than it is to make the CEO from EXXON that walked away with a 400 million separation package a villain. They're just taking what the market gives them. If enough important people feel that the CEO compensation is excessive, then the market should respond and CEO compensation should drop. It's too early for this adjustment to happen, though, because CEO compensation only just recently became a hot-button issue. You have to allow a few years (at least) for the market to respond. In the meantime, some people will walk away rich beyond most peoples' wildest dreams. Tilton happens to be one of them.
AA,AL,B6,CO,C5,C8,DA,DL,FI,F9,HP,LH,MQ,NW,OO,TZ,UA,US,WN,XJ,YV,ZW,VX
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 53):
Because 99.9 % of the time that is the case. Management is out for its own interests, not the customer not the stock holder not the employee. Thats a sad fact about capitalism

Simply not true, compensation is tied to performance of the stock, therefor making the companies health very much in their interest. THATS THE WHOLE POINT!

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 49):
So let's catalog your position:

Great post!

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 29):
A 40 million dollar salary when employees barely make ends meets, and the company struggles? Makes me want to turn Communist and drag him off to a gulag, and im a republican! Really this is ridiculous. NOTHING justifies a salary that large. Capitalism sucks. its also nice to know many robber Baron capitalists here have no social ethics regarding equal distribution of wealth. What angers me is the fact that he earns this much, through whatever means when the company is struggling. no one person despite how "good" a job is solely responsible for saving an airline certainly not management or the CEO's. I cant believe there are people defending this guy's earnings. This is what sucks about the USA, land of opportunity for the wealthy only. I wont rant too much off topic, but this is crap. I have family members in the airline industry who work three times as long and hard than he does and get paid 1/10000 what he does. Saving an airline is a team effort by the employees and (though i hate to admit it) management. no one person deserves this much of a reward.

How can you be a Republican and not understand capitalism at all? Not even one little bit?

What you and many here simply do not understand is that without that CEO, there would be no company. If wall street and the people with the money do not have faith in a corps CEO, the bond ratings, credit ratings and the recommended stock positions from the analysts suffer and the company goes down. Its really not that complicated guys. However heroic and sacrificial the workers are, their efforts would be in vein were it not for a CEO with full Wall Street confidence.

Look at ti this way, if Ronald McDonald was shown molesting kids in a McDs commercial, that company would never be the same if it survived. If a corporation has a clown as CEO, they are doomed, one major misstep and its all over. One person can make or break a multi billion dollar company. Its a fact.

Did Chrysler and Iaccoca teach you all nothing? There are many more common knowledge examples like that, do you people live under rocks or simply not know anything about business?
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 60):
What you and many here simply do not understand is that without that CEO, there would be no company.

And with out employees? Im sure one CEO could fly all the routes and do all the scheduling. Give the employees more credit.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 60):
Did Chrysler and Iaccoca teach you all nothing? There are many more common knowledge examples like that, do you people live under rocks or simply not know anything about business?

No, i just think there should be some ethics in the buisness world, although i realize thats an oxymoron. It seems as though people here think the rich have no social responsibility to the less fortunate. Let them starve and all. As a christian i cant swallow that. YES I REALIZE RELIGION HAS NO ROLE IN BUSINESS. Its just sad to see this guy horde so much money for nothing. One person CANT save a company by himself, he can destroy it though. I just hope more americans are getting fed up with the wealthy so something can change. After all if the masses are in poverty better everyone be poor than a few super wealthy people (OPINION). Point is Tiltion relied on the employees, if there had been mass lack of cooperation, every thing he had done would be to no effect.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 60):

How can you be a Republican and not understand capitalism at all? Not even one little bit?

I dont have to agree with everything the party supports...

Quoting Eyes2thesky (Reply 59):
In the meantime, some people will walk away rich beyond most people's wildest dreams. Tilton happens to be one of them.

Not if people realize the social injustice in this...

Quoting JAL777 (Reply 57):
You're first priority (as it should be) is you.

I dont make enough money to pay off some national debts... CEO's have more to be responsible for than to themselves. So many 19th century railroad barons on this thread...


Im not trying to hijack this thread, i just want to point out that the employees should deserve most of the credit not Tilton, im not saying he doesn't deserve any, just not 40 million dollars worth, especially considering the state of the company, and the sacrifices the employees made in the first place because management could not cope with post 9/11. Some great posts here though. This is a great thread, i just respectfully disagree with the opinion that capitalism should not involve ethics.

JRDC9  Smile
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 61):
I just hope more americans are getting fed up with the wealthy so something can change.

Try Venezuela or Cuba or China buddy....that isn't what made this country and isn't what will keep it going. Without JP Getty, J.D Rockefeller, Carnegie, Crocker, Huntington, Douglas, Boeing, Gates etc...all the evil, horrible, disgusting, rich people you so loathe, this country wouldnt be what it is today. If it had evolved the way you wanted it to, we would be a bunch of sharecroppers, living in rural communal bliss. You are naive and one day will realize that the world doesn't operate to your ideal, it actually runs a whole heck of a lot better!
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 53):
And pilots with the lives of hundreds dont, or FA's or Maintenance or ground crews? I dont buy it. Just because you clawed your way up to the top through whatever means does not mean you merit such out of proportion pay. Im not saying people dont have the right to be rich, but sometimes theres overkill. Whats he going to do take his surplus money to the grave?

Remember without the employees of any company management would not be rich like they are now.

Oh don't get me wrong. The front line employees should be making much more than what they are making. You just need someone to steer the ship, as it were, and that person should command a decent wage; however, I don't even think a CEO should make $1 million, let alone $40, when you have public school teachers who, trying to shape the course of kids' lives, make what....$30k a year if that? If you make $40 mill a year...or 20...or 10...or 5...or 1...chances are you never really value anything since you can have anything you want. All that money leads to greed and arrogance, in my opinion.
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 63):
All that money leads to greed and arrogance, in my opinion.

Actually it leads to JOBS. How many people work for a poor guy? THINK ABOUT IT!

Rich people INVEST they dont sit on top of a big pile of cash and become idle. This isnt
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 64):
Actually it leads to JOBS.

Ok, all of the above then. But you don't need $40 million to be considered "rich".

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 64):
Rich people INVEST they dont sit on top of a big pile of cash and become idle

When you have that kind of money, you can pretty much do whatever you want to do.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 63):
Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 53):
And pilots with the lives of hundreds dont, or FA's or Maintenance or ground crews? I dont buy it. Just because you clawed your way up to the top through whatever means does not mean you merit such out of proportion pay. Im not saying people dont have the right to be rich, but sometimes theres overkill. Whats he going to do take his surplus money to the grave?

Remember without the employees of any company management would not be rich like they are now.

Oh don't get me wrong. The front line employees should be making much more than what they are making. You just need someone to steer the ship, as it were, and that person should command a decent wage; however, I don't even think a CEO should make $1 million, let alone $40, when you have public school teachers who, trying to shape the course of kids' lives, make what....$30k a year if that? If you make $40 mill a year...or 20...or 10...or 5...or 1...chances are you never really value anything since you can have anything you want. All that money leads to greed and arrogance, in my opinion.

...again, this is a free market society people have the right to choose where the want to go and what they want to be.....no one is forcing anyone to be a school teacher.. no 

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 65):
Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 64):
Actually it leads to JOBS.

Ok, all of the above then. But you don't need $40 million to be considered "rich"

....that's your definition of "rich" (and yes, I saw your quotes)...however, compared to Bill Gates, he's living in poverty... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 65):
When you have that kind of money, you can pretty much do whatever you want to do.

Not really, our system discourages hoarding wealth, and encourages investing. By investing in business, religion, charity, whatever, you avoid taxes to the extent that hoarding becomes unaffordable.

Remember, EVERYONE makes the same in the USA, NO ENOUGH. Everyone's taxes are the same, TOO MUCH. To think that "rich" people are really any different in they way the perceive income and wealth than you is naive.

Jealousy of the rich is what sticks out in this thread. Too bad, because when the tables are turned and you have a lot of money, you see the hypocrisy in the people like you who think they would act any differently when confronted with a large sum of money.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 66):
no one is forcing anyone to be a school teacher..

Actually yes, the lack of funding for college education keep many from pursuing a career that can lead to a wealthy life style. You need money to earn money. if your born poor? Now a days your screwed? I understand UAL needs some one to steer the ship but 40 Million Common it really could be put to better use for the airline itself rather than one individual

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 67):
Jealousy of the rich is what sticks out in this thread. Too bad, because when the tables are turned and you have a lot of money, you see the hypocrisy in the people like you who think they would act any differently when confronted with a large sum of money.

You cant say that for certain, can you read minds? I dont envy being rich, i would hate to turn into a heartless person. I reiterate what ive been saying the whole time. Is this justified when considering the salaries of the average employee and their sacrifices? Also is it justifiable when there are places UAL could use 40 million to improve on?
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 68):
You cant say that for certain, can you read minds?

I have experience.

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 68):
I dont envy being rich, i would hate to turn into a heartless person.

The two are mutually exclusive. Too bad you dont see that.

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 68):
Is this justified when considering the salaries of the average employee and their sacrifices?

Yes. They chose their carreer, he chose his. Both have benifits and sacrifices. Job security, time with the family, and reasonable levels of stress are not the benifits a CEO gets.

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 68):
Also is it justifiable when there are places UAL could use 40 million to improve on

Yes. The money was well spent, he easily paid for himself and a huge amount beyond that with his actions.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 68):
40 Million

Again folks, this isn't $40mil CASH we are talking about. You all need to read a little better, or take a basic buisness class in high school, the total comp package is $40 million, which includes options if stock hits $50 some odd a share. Hell, I could be a billionaire tomorrow, if I granted my stock in own company and said "if this hits $1000 a share, I am rich!"
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4548
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting Ctheworld (Reply 56):
Are you blind or just stupid? Under Tilton there is a new brand, new livery, new and innovative services and a complete reshuffle of routes to express carriers where UA couldnt make money. In case you are not blind, and just stupid lets revisit a few of these:

1) Ted
2) New livery and branding
3) ExPlus
4) P.S.
5) Soon to be launched updated F and C product
6) Winning the Beijing Route authority
7) Paying down a HUGE amount of UAL debt and renegotiating the existing debt to lower rates

Wow! Your first sentence is a little under the belt, but hey. I will be nice. 2

Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 62):
Try Venezuela or Cuba or China buddy....that isn't what made this country and isn't what will keep it going. Without JP Getty, J.D Rockefeller, Carnegie, Crocker, Huntington, Douglas, Boeing, Gates etc...all the evil, horrible, disgusting, rich people you so loathe, this country wouldnt be what it is today. If it had evolved the way you wanted it to, we would be a bunch of sharecroppers, living in rural communal bliss. You are naive and one day will realize that the world doesn't operate to your ideal, it actually runs a whole heck of a lot better!



Quoting Ctheworld (Reply 56):
Are you blind or just stupid?

Wow! I find that you are very critical of others with your comments.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4548
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 70):
You all need to read a little better, or take a basic buisness class in high school,

I can take a buisness class? I tried a google search and could not find anything for it. Perhaps you should consider taking a writing class.  rotfl 

Could you tone down your critical/verbal assaults a bit? Thanks!!!!!!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
FLY2LIM
Posts: 1095
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 6:01 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Coewraatysaz (Thread starter):
Glenn Tilton is one of the biggest thieves ever. I cannot believe that this is allowed to happen. This just goes to show you union's aren't worth sh*t. You pay all that money in dues and they have no muscle whatsoever to stop all of those wage and benefit cuts from going to the pigheaded bastard's pockets!!!

Your reply shows how little you know about the business world.

Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 6):
40mm is still scary, even if part of it is not guaranteed. CEOs nowadays make insane salaries, they should not be earning more than a 100 times what their average co-worker gets

Doesn't a CEO have 100x (or more) responsibility than the guy loading bags?

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 7):
According to an article in the Baltimore Sun last week, Southwest Airlines Co.'s chief executive Gary Kelly received a salary and benefits package of $976,021 in 2006 as the airline posted its 34th continuous year of profitability.

What the article does not state, I presume, is how much his retirement package is (he will retire some day, and it's already been negotiated, most likely) and how many stock options he holds.

Quoting JEdward (Reply 10):
I doubt anyone will disagree that good people are hard to find, especially for upper management, but do you really think Tilton did UAUA $40,000,000 worth of service?

I am guessing he is one of the few people who stepped up to the job and took the risk. If UA doesn't emerge from bankruptcy, he gets nothing, and gets blacklisted.

Quoting JEdward (Reply 10):
With regards to executive compensation, Kelly, Kellner and Grinstein have taken their respective airlines through hard times yet their compensation is far short of Tilton's. Moreover, their companies seem far better poised to deal with the challenges the market will throw at them.

That is purely opinion, based on what? United Airlines is no longer in bankruptcy, if I understand correctly. Therefore, Tilton did the job he promised.

Quoting COewrAAtysAZ (Reply 13):
Whatever you Tilton supporters say, NO ONE, let me say that again, NO ONE is worth $40 million IN WHATEVER WAY AND Irtysh-Avia (Kazakhstan)">IT COMES. I don't care if your Tilton, Derek Jeter, Peyton Manning... NO ONE is worth $40 million.

I mean, come on... A CAR AND DRIVER? Hell, when you're making $40 million why can't you just by the Benz and drive it yourself? You guys are ridiculous if you think that type of salary and benefits is actually justifiable.

Funny, you probably pay 50, 100, 200 dollars to go see a professional sports event live, or pay insane amounts of money to watch NFL or NBA or MLB on a specialized channel. Derek Jeter is paid Tilton's salary EVERY MONTH for hitting a ball with a stick (and, apparently, not very well) yet, somehow, people feel he's "worth it" when it comes to the high compensation.
This is a society where people like Tilton gets scolded for earning a high salary, but it's ok for teams to pay people like Jeter and Manning ridiculous amounts of money for something as irrelevant as football or baseball. If you have ever paid 50 dollars to watch a game, or bought a 35 dollar team jersey, or paid 20 dollars for an autographed picture of an aging sports "hero," you have no business criticizing those who make a lot of money for the work they do. And don't forget, I am a teacher and I'm not rich.

FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:26 am

An even bigger thief than Noel F.? LOL
How is this possible?

Quoting Coewraatysaz (Thread starter):
Glenn Tilton is one of the biggest thieves ever.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
flydl2atl
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:47 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:38 am

The solution is to vote with your wallet...don't fly United! (As if you really needed another reason) After all who wants their money to go into that pig's wallet. There are plenty of companies where the executives don't steal from the employees and customers in order to line their greedy pockets with more money. It's our responsibility to be an informed consumer and we can chose to not support the decisions.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 68):
Actually yes, the lack of funding for college education keep many from pursuing a career that can lead to a wealthy life style. You need money to earn money. if your born poor? Now a days your screwed? I understand UAL needs some one to steer the ship but 40 Million Common it really could be put to better use for the airline itself rather than one individual

..that's incorrect, the beauty of the United States is everyone has the ability to go to school/university/college....regardless of race, colour, creed, wealth, etc..

When I worked at the hospital, I had friends who grew up in some of the worst housing project in the United States..some of my friends at my University were dirt poor impoverished, but had the motivation to succeed..and indeed they did...x-tra kudos to them.. thumbsup ....

Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 70):
Again folks, this isn't $40mil CASH we are talking about. You all need to read a little better, or take a basic buisness class in high school, the total comp package is $40 million, which includes options if stock hits $50 some odd a share. Hell, I could be a billionaire tomorrow, if I granted my stock in own company and said "if this hits $1000 a share, I am rich!"

...don't bother...(i.e.-see my 3 million posts above stating the same thing).. Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 75):
It's our responsibility to be an informed consumer and we can chose to not support the decisions.

Except that you're obviously not an informed consumer.

We're all comparing apples and oranges. Tilton was issued stock, this is not salary.

The CEO of my company makes a mil or so a year, but his STOCK is worth several hundred million dollars and he sells a few hundred mil a year. Nobody complains, because that is stock, not salary.

The employees of UA were handed a billion dollars in stock. A lot of those folks are unskilled or one-skill laborers who would never get that anywhere else, but look, here they did.

NS
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 67):
Too bad, because when the tables are turned and you have a lot of money, you see the hypocrisy in the people like you who think they would act any differently when confronted with a large sum of money.

Yea, not so much at all really. Don't assume that I would think differently if I had that kind of money.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 67):
Jealousy of the rich is what sticks out in this thread.

I don't think that sticks out at all. I think a lot of people are question the reasoning behind it. And honestly, there's not much reasoning. Not for that kind of money/incentive package.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 66):
...again, this is a free market society people have the right to choose where the want to go and what they want to be.....no one is forcing anyone to be a school teacher..

Very true, and all things being equal, there are some professions which deserve better compensation that others.
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 67):
Too bad, because when the tables are turned and you have a lot of money, you see the hypocrisy in the people like you who think they would act any differently when confronted with a large sum of money.

Yea, not so much at all really. Don't assume that I would think differently if I had that kind of money.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 67):
Jealousy of the rich is what sticks out in this thread.

I don't think that sticks out at all. I think a lot of people are question the reasoning behind it. And honestly, there's not much reasoning. Not for that kind of money/incentive package.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 66):
...again, this is a free market society people have the right to choose where the want to go and what they want to be.....no one is forcing anyone to be a school teacher..

Very true, and all things being equal, there are some professions which deserve better compensation than others.
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 67):
To think that "rich" people are really any different in they way the perceive income and wealth than you is naive.

And if I "is" naive, that's fine. At least I passed English 101.
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 76):
some of my friends at my University were dirt poor impoverished, but had the motivation to succeed..and indeed they did...x-tra kudos to them..

Nice it worked out for them, but for most despite all the hype ,college is just to far out of reach, condemning one to poverty.Motivation cant always make up for poverty. But this is a different topic. Alot of people make enough money not to get financial aid, but not enough to pay for college.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 77):
The employees of UA were handed a billion dollars in stock. A lot of those folks are unskilled or one-skill laborers who would never get that anywhere else, but look, here they did.

Unskilled labor that keep the airline functioning.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 78):
I don't think that sticks out at all. I think a lot of people are question the reasoning behind it. And honestly, there's not much reasoning. Not for that kind of money/incentive package.

Agreed. Who decides whats worth 40 million and whats not? the market. that condemns millions to poverty and suffering. say what you will about communist nations, but not too many people starve in china, unlike the US.

My main critique it that the reasoning behind his award is just plain morally and ethically wrong, but then capitalism lacks those qualities inherently doesn't it? And should not have any right?
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
flydl2atl
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:47 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 77):
We're all comparing apples and oranges. Tilton was issued stock, this is not salary.

We're not comparing apples and oragnes....Granted maybe the stock went up more than the BOD originally thought...So how much did the BOD think the total compensation package was going to be worth...only 20 million??? How about issuing more stock to the employees and less to Mgmt. Re-read the thread....UA mgmt has already shown themselves to be greedy thieves who wish to live off the work of the employees. Or houw about Mr. Tilton give some back like Jerry Grinstein has done at Delta. Honestly, this guy sucks.
 
COewrAAtysAZ
Topic Author
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:15 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 73):
Funny, you probably pay 50, 100, 200 dollars to go see a professional sports event live, or pay insane amounts of money to watch NFL or NBA or MLB on a specialized channel. Derek Jeter is paid Tilton's salary EVERY MONTH for hitting a ball with a stick (and, apparently, not very well) yet, somehow, people feel he's "worth it" when it comes to the high compensation.

Nope, sorry I can't say I have or do. No pride or tradition in professional leagues... I'm purely a college sports fan. Nice try, though. I repeat my original statement, NO ONE is worth $40 million a day, week, month, year whether a baseball player or airline CEO.

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 73):
you have no business criticizing those who make a lot of money for the work they do

With all do respect, I have more of a right than you do Mr. Teacher. When you work for the airline and they are your boss... you do have that right.
Continental Airlines: Trabajar con empe�?��?�±o, Volar con Pasi�?��?�³n
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 80):
And if I "is" naive, that's fine. At least I passed English 101.

Read it again smart guy, "To think (whatever) is naive" is correct grammer. I did not say or intend to say "then you are naive", you read that in to it. If you passed, why the trouble comprehending the sentence?

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 82):
How about issuing more stock to the employees and less to Mgmt

Then expect less qualified upper management, because other companies will outbid you.

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 82):
UA mgmt has already shown themselves to be greedy thieves who wish to live off the work of the employees.

How? did they break the law? If so why have you not filed a complaint with the SEC?

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 82):
Or houw about Mr. Tilton give some back like Jerry Grinstein has done at Delta. Honestly, this guy sucks.

Why dont you give back some of your money to your employer?

[Edited 2007-03-28 23:12:19]
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 78):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 66):
...again, this is a free market society people have the right to choose where the want to go and what they want to be.....no one is forcing anyone to be a school teacher..

Very true, and all things being equal, there are some professions which deserve better compensation that others.

...I don't agree on that point, I certainly think teachers should get paid more...

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 79):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 66):
...again, this is a free market society people have the right to choose where the want to go and what they want to be.....no one is forcing anyone to be a school teacher..

Very true, and all things being equal, there are some professions which deserve better compensation than others.

.....I'll agree with you again.... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 67):
To think that "rich" people are really any different in they way the perceive income and wealth than you is naive.

I'm not here to argue the English language really, I just needed to point out that the above statement makes little sense. No comprehension problems on this end, sir.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 84):
Why dont you give back some of your money to your employer?

I doubt he has a few extra mill lying around which he doesn't know what to do with.  Yeah sure
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2811
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 86):
I'm not here to argue the English language really, I just needed to point out that the above statement makes little sense. No comprehension problems on this end, sir.

Let me break it down for you:

1) To think that

2) "rich" people are really any different in they way the perceive income and wealth than you

3) is naive.

A missing comma is not a federal crime and should not affect comprehension.

Now how bout this..

it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm.

Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

So much for the spelling nazis anyway....

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 86):
I doubt he has a few extra mill lying around which he doesn't know what to do with

Nobody has any money lying around they dont know what to do with. I would be willing to bet 90% or more of his assets are investments making other people more money than he is making of them. The idea rich people have "money" is misguided. They have investments that are at risk.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 87):
Let me break it down for you:

No need to, really. I appreciate the offer, though.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 87):
The idea rich people have "money" is misguided.

That's interesting, but likely not entirely true; however, this isn't CharlesSchwab.com, so I don't want to delve into this any further.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 45):
I think too many people are comparing Glenn Tilton to his counterpart at DL, Gerald Grinstein. Keep in mind Grinstein made a fortune as a Seattle based corporate attorney back in the 1960s & 70s, as Western CEO, as well as Burlington Northern Railroad CEO. He has worked for the last three years with very little remuneration, and then this past week told the DL Directors; "Give My Bonus Away!"

He did better then that: he started a fund for DL employees and their kids...
 
flydl2atl
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:47 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:58 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 84):
Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 82):
How about issuing more stock to the employees and less to Mgmt

Then expect less qualified upper management, because other companies will outbid you.

Sorry...I don't buy the assumption that executive talent is limited to a highly competitive small pool of talent. The whole notion that these people deserve this kind of money because they're ''that good'' is absolute bs. There are junior execs at many airlines at numerous airlines all of whom make signifigantly less (as valued through both salary and stock grants) than this pig. I would be interested to see any study that directly links executive pay with company performance.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 84):
Why dont you give back some of your money to your employer?

I would if my compensation was valued at $40 million.
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:28 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 84):
Then expect less qualified upper management, because other companies will outbid you.

Not true, thats like saying if you dont pay management 300 million you get morons. How about the other capable people just entering the market? or are there only 100 qualified ceo's in the nation. I have a general dislike of all management, but at least grinstien has acknowledged the employees, albeit somewhat insubstantially. (Aside): i think the US would be ETHICALLY better off with a mixed capitalist/socialist economy like Europe. Too bad it wont happen soon enough.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 84):
How? did they break the law? If so why have you not filed a complaint with the SEC?

Because my good sir there is yet a law to cap income... soon enough though... plenty of americans feel "displeased" to say the least about the abuses by the wealthy in this nation. Their time will come.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:41 am

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 53):

Remember without the employees of any company management would not be rich like they are now.

What do you think a company would be like without management?

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 91):
i think the US would be ETHICALLY better off with a mixed capitalist/socialist economy like Europe. Too bad it wont happen soon enough.

We already have a mixed economy.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:15 am

Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 82):
How about issuing more stock to the employees and less to Mgmt.

I don't want to put too fine a point on it, but the employees aren't worth more than a billion dollar stock plan.

A lot of them are blue collar workers. Tilton was a hotly recruited CEO with experience managing multibillion dollar international corporations.

The employees are, to the stockholders, expendable. Tilton isn't.

Its jealousy. Sure, whatever, Gerald Grinstein is a better person. But Tilton is worth every penny he got paid, and actually likely worth a lot more. Had he stayed in the oil business, he might have made $400 million last year.

NS
 
ContnlEliteCMH
Posts: 1391
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:19 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:11 pm

I have two basic questions for those who think they can pass judgement on what somebody is "worth" or "should make." You know who you are, and I think you should answer these questions.

(1) How much should somebody make? I'd like a real number, please. I won't even ask you for justification; just provide the number.

(2) May I assume that if somebody offered you compensation in excess of the value you provide above, you will decline the offer?
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:22 pm

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 94):
(1) How much should somebody make? I'd like a real number, please. I won't even ask you for justification; just provide the number.

there are no "real" numbers..it doesn't exist... no 

the market dictates what a CEO/school teacher/pilot/professor/ball player/baggage loader will make...its as simple as that... yes 

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 94):
(2) May I assume that if somebody offered you compensation in excess of the value you provide above, you will decline the offer?

which proves my point...."somebody" (in this case, an entire panel, including the bk judge) offered one compensation...Tilton isn't going down to the local bank and looting UA's coffers... no 
"Up the Irons!"
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:46 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 93):
A lot of them are blue collar workers. Tilton was a hotly recruited CEO with experience managing multibillion dollar international corporations.

The employees are, to the stockholders, expendable. Tilton isn't.

Good they can keep Tilton, and ALL the employees can quit and find new jobs, how much is the company worth then?  Yeah sure Thats how expendable they are. People are amazing, defending the exploitation of labor at the cost of human decency. nice to know ethics is too expensive to afford in the US not only amongst its businesses but amongst its people. I suppose we should further reduce laws on corporations so they dont have to pay minimum wage? Tilton was lucky and greedy plain and simple. UAL got ripped off but then again the stock holders could care less because they're rich, let those poor employees eat cake. survival of the greediest right?
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
Ctermua
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:22 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:54 pm

So nice to hear that all us lowly blue collered employees, with obviously very little education, should be just damn thankful that Mr Tilton came our way and turned our company into the shining example it is now. That 40 mil got us such a well oiled machine, where employee morale is at an alltime low. Our equipment is so ratty and breaks down so often that Third World airlines would scorn us. Our customer service scores are at THE bottom...below US lately. Our corporate culture is defined by a bloated middle management of complete morons whose only concern is making their "numbers" There is very little sensical decision making going on at lower lovels of manegment..almost nonexistant. The "billions" that we recieved in stock...well forgive mefor not getting down on my knees and thanking the Tilton god for giving us a percentage, a small one at that, of the givebacks we've had taken out of our pockets over the last five years. That includes, paycuts...benefit cuts...pension dissolvance...ect. Oh, and those "Success Sharing" checks that United touts in endless amounts of written drivel, all based on the "numbers" that can be completely erased by one month of ORD weather. Last quarter, I recieved the grand total of $36.00. But hey, we are the undereducated working class, we should smile and give thanks that we have such a great management team.
So quit!... To the mindless..beat ya to the punch. Quitting is an option for me, but for alot of really amazing long time employees, it's not. And for alot of others who do move on, the company could care less, to them it's penny wise to hire someone to replace him/her at 10bucks an hour as opposed to the employee who left making 20 an hour. Let me tell you...just as everything else in life...you get what you pay for. Ask the frequent flyers...ask those who call reservations in India. It's short sighted thinking and United is completely blinded by it.
As far as I'm concerned..give him his 40 million, and move on. We need a CEO that sees the obvious connection between employee morale/empowerment which positively affects the customer which positvely affects the bottom line. (See Continental or Southwest)
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:55 pm

I'm so sick of hearing about ethics from 16 year olds.

This is the real world and there is absolutely nothing unethical or even uncommon for the CEO of a company with billions in yearly revenue to receive variable compensation that far exceeds this.

He doesn't set his own salary, and he dragged a sinking ship with what, 100,000 souls aboard back above water.

$40 million dollars in STOCK, jesus christ we're talking about STOCK OPTIONS people, is a goddamn BARGAIN. The CEO of my company has stock options outstanding worth some $600 million dollars and I think he is worth twice that.

You do realize not a penny of that money cost anyone anything? Right? It was an arbitrary assignment made when the company's shares were reissued.

A BILLION dollars in stock issued to the employees. A BILLION DOLLARS.

NS
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: Tilton Makes Almost $40 Million At UAL

Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:06 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 98):
I'm so sick of hearing about ethics from 16 year olds.

Amen brother, AMEN. Most of the dweebs of this board haven't even finished puberty yet, but because they see mommy or daddy in whatever career they have chosen languish, or the real world doesn't mesh with whatever ideal pulp culture has placed in their heads, all "rich" people (who, btw make the world go around) are evil and greedy! It is too much. Monday morning quarterbacks are better than the bunch that post here. Maybe they should start a new forum called "Fantasy General Aviation" so they can live out their fantasies and mental ma$turba+ion there!!!

C

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos