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HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat May 26, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 146):
Well, the good news is, GA is still having excellent loads on those dom breadwinner routes... where it proves, contrary to popular belief, that QUALITY still has a place in Indonesia...

Let's rephrase that into quality by Indonesian standards and compared to the crappy service that other domestic airlines are offering. I wouldn't go as far as to call Garuda's service of high quality. As a matter of fact, I find it all very dreadful by any meaningful international experience, starting from the ticket purchase (still no online sales, long waiting lines at ticketing offices with uninterested sales staff), check in (CGK 2F isn't exactly an attractive environment), lounges (shabby, unprofessional and stingy food and drink offerings), on board experience (no IFE to speak of, uninspired catering) all the way to luggage handling.

But indeed, when compared to what the others have on offer, Garuda is indeed heaven on earth. It goes to show in what miserable state the aviation industry in Indonesian finds itself, but that remark really applies to all industries in the country. Offering merely mediocre service will earn one customer satisfaction award because of the abysmal service of one's competitors.

Quoting GFFgold (Reply 148):
Is CGK-KUL making any money for GA?

KUL is barely hanging in there because of the good loads, but the yields are not much to talk about. At best, this route breaks even, and previous experiments with SUB/JOG/DPS-KUL were nothing short of a commercial disaster.
 
je89_w
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:29 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat May 26, 2007 5:54 pm

Get ready for the arrival of PK-LFG (ex N900ER), Lion Air's second B739ER! It just stopped by HNL for a few hours and should be on its way to SPN right about now. The line number of PK-LFG is actually 1981, and PK-LFF which was delivered earlier, is 2093. So their second -900ER is actually older on the production line.
 
thaia345
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sun May 27, 2007 8:17 pm

Just arrived back to CGK from DPS for the weekend. Took the 1525 turnaround which was an A333. Can omeone please tell me where was this a/c coming from and usually used? My A333 was PK-GPE

BTW, lots of nice a/c in DPS today, saw Eva brand new A332, China AIrlines B744, Qatar AB6, TG B772. Even my wife who is a non aviation fan can comment how sad GA has become when you look at all its Asian counterparts. This is really sad but true.

But I guess DPS is a money earning route for GA as in the J cabin, it was 100% full, and mind you this was also a normal weekend!
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sun May 27, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting ThaiA345 (Reply 152):
Just arrived back to CGK from DPS for the weekend. Took the 1525 turnaround which was an A333. Can omeone please tell me where was this a/c coming from and usually used? My A333 was PK-GPE

PK-GPE came in from Melbourne early afternoon as GA719, went up and down to Denpasar-Jakarta-Denpasar and will fly to Sydney as GA714 later tonight.

Quoting ThaiA345 (Reply 152):
But I guess DPS is a money earning route for GA as in the J cabin, it was 100% full, and mind you this was also a normal weekend!

Contrary to what many people believe, CGK DPS is not a money spinner for Garuda. Sure, flights are full Friday afternoon and Saturday morning on CGK DPS and Sunday afternoon and even Monday morning on DPS CGK, as well as before and after any long weekend, but apart from those days, the only way to fill the aircraft is by selling very low priced tickets, making the overall yields of the CGK DPS route rather miserable. You might get the impression that CGK DPS is a very busy route, because, like so many passengers you fly this route when it is busy. But the aircraft you flew on DPS CGK with a 100% percent load flew back less than 40% full, likely all of them rock bottom fares, an hour later. That makes for a less than 70% overall load factor for the roundtrip. Yield estimation and management is so much more than a snapshot of one particular flight.
 
kretek
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:50 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sun May 27, 2007 11:05 pm

Over many, many years, there have been talk of Garuda being privatised to a strategic investor. Any further developments? This may be a sensitive issue with the upcoming 2009 Presidential election so there is not much time left for privatisation. Like so many things in Indo, is it only talk no action?
 
mandala499
Topic Author
Posts: 6600
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RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Mon May 28, 2007 12:41 am

Kretek,
It is on the cards, and fully supported by the minister of state enterprises. One company has been charged with "setting the required conditions and strategies" of such actions. There are a few potential partners willing to sign up, but pre-announcements requirements from each side must be bridged in order for the government to see if it is the time to do so and which conditions of selections will the government choose as the best partner for Garuda.

Apart from that, all I can say is... it's sensitive indeed... Unfortunately, it would appear that anyone that can talk about this is already bound by non-disclosure agreements...

HB-IWC, U signed that "Project Whiskey" NDA yet? I signed last week...
Just kidding guys!

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
thaia345
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Mon May 28, 2007 2:55 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 153):
That makes for a less than 70% overall load factor for the roundtrip. Yield estimation and management is so much more than a snapshot of one particular flight.

Thanks for the insight HB-IWC. When I started thinking about it, I am always in DPS its always during the weekends, no wonder flights are always full! IMO you are right coz I have a friend you has businesses in both DPS and JKT, and he always flies during the weekdays and he never ever seem to have a problem with flights!

So what is the actual status of the A333? Will they be returned/repossess? Who are these aircraft leased/financed from?

Btw, PK-GPE as I as seating in 1J, has a MAJOR front tyre FLAT SPOT!!! ...
 
mandala499
Topic Author
Posts: 6600
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Mon May 28, 2007 5:10 pm

Quoting ThaiA345 (Reply 156):
So what is the actual status of the A333? Will they be returned/repossess? Who are these aircraft leased/financed from?

6 A333s... down to 4 operating, 2 getting ready to go elsewhere... Financed through the European Credit Agency... GA's biggest foreign creditor...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Tue May 29, 2007 3:31 pm

Just last night got back from Papua and Manado. I went to Biak first, and didn't like it, so I elected not to go to Jayapura and Wamena, but to go to Manado instead. It was an excellent choice, and Manado is amazing.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 144):
Merpati's sole 737-300 in maintenance.
Merpati's venture with the Merauke regional govt has been inactive for the past 2 weeks as the aircraft in use is at Merpati Maintenance Facility over the past 2 weeks. It is unclear when this aircraft will fly its schedules again. The aircraft is reportedly owned by the Merauke regional govt. and is operated by Merpati. This is the sole 737-300/400 in Merpati currently.

Funny, I flew the UPG-BIK leg on the 20th May on an MZ 733 (I did note the reg but don't have it to hand at the moment). It wasn't in normal Merpati colours though, it had some sort of orange colour scheme.

BTW, came back yesterday on Lion. Flew the new 737-900ER PK-LFF from MDC to UPG. Not bad at all, but still no-where near as good as the classic 737-200s.

Does anyone know what the hell was going on with Lion at Makassar last night? Every Lion/Wings flight was delayed. My flight across to Surabaya was delayed 3 hrs!!!. I'm pretty narked off because not once did any of the Lion staff ever bother apologising for the delay. In fact, at the transfer desk they just handed me my ticket and didn't even bother letting me know that there was a delay.


HB-IWC,

Does Garuda have any UPG-SUB flights, and if not, why not? I wanted to get from Manado to Surabaya. On that particular day Merpati didn't have an MDC-UPG flight. That left Garuda or Lion. However with Garuda it's a double connection (either Manado-Balikpapan-Jakarta-Surabaya or Manado-Makassar-Denpasar-Surabaya). In the end I flew Lion. The appeal of going on their new plane, the cheaper ticket and the shorter journey time was hard to beat). I can't understand though, why Garuda don't have an SUB-UPG flight. They are both pretty large commercial centres.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Tue May 29, 2007 8:06 pm

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 158):
Does Garuda have any UPG-SUB flights, and if not, why not?

Garuda has been operating SUB UPG flights on and off, the last time until about 2 months ago, when the daily SUB SIN rotation was extended to UPG for while, making its UPG SUB SIN SUB UPG with the UPG SUB segment very early morning and the SUB UPG segment late in the evening. Before that, about a year and a half ago, Garuda operated SUB to Papua sectors thrice weekly via UPG. The flight operated SUB UPG DJJ TIM DJJ UPG SUB with the SUB UPG sector very early morning and the UPG SUB sector late in the evening. Both ventures failed because of very low loads and even lower yields. The only way GA could make SUB UPG work is through a better schedule, avoiding early mornings and evenings and providing double connectivity to the UPG MDC rotation, which is perfectly possible by scheduling the aircraft UPG SUB DPS UPG SUB. That, however, does not seem to be a priority for GA.

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 158):
I wanted to get from Manado to Surabaya. On that particular day Merpati didn't have an MDC-UPG flight. That left Garuda or Lion.

With respect to SUB MDC SUB, it is interesting to note that following the January crash, Adam Air have quietly withdrawn from this route. Although the flight is still listed in reservation systems and it the airline's advertisements, it doesn't seem to be operating. If that is indeed the case, there is no more nonstop connection on this route.
 
thaia345
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Tue May 29, 2007 11:20 pm

By the way, I also forgot to mention that when I went to Bali on Friday (25th May) it was on PK -GHQ and just on descending, my entire overhead panel fell, which caused a few ppl in the J cabin to scream ahahhaha  Smile It was not the oxygen masks (ppl thought it was) but was actually the entire panel with the air nozzles, lights, and all!! I tried to put it back and managed to do so with the help of 1 f/a. SHe still could smile to me and said ' dah biasa kok pak' meaning...its normal !! ahahah ..hilarious it was !!
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Wed May 30, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting ThaiA345 (Reply 160):
it was on PK -GHQ and just on descending, my entire overhead panel fell

PK-GHQ is a rustbucket, as is PK-GHR. The J-seats are also absolutely horrendous, coming from the old A300s. The entire PK-GZ* series also have these seats as do PK-GW* starting from PK-GWT and PK-GG* starting from PK-GGT. Nicer J-seats can be found in the B735s (PK-GGA tp PK-GGF), most B733s (PK-GGG to PK-GGR) and the original B734s (PK-GWL to PK-GWQ).
 
thaia345
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Wed May 30, 2007 4:02 pm

But how about the J seats on the B738's? Where did they come from?
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Wed May 30, 2007 7:25 pm

Quoting ThaiA345 (Reply 162):
But how about the J seats on the B738's? Where did they come from?

Same source... Old A300 seats. Not much to talk about in other words.
 
kretek
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:50 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Wed May 30, 2007 8:33 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 157):

Which routes are to be 'suspended' or have their frequency reduced?
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Wed May 30, 2007 9:13 pm

Quoting Kretek (Reply 164):
Which routes are to be 'suspended' or have their frequency reduced?

Suspended A333 routes:

DPS FUK
DPS NGO
DPS BNE
DPS BNE AKL
DPS ADL


Equipment downgrades:

DPS PER from A333 to B734 to B738 now again B734
CGK SIN PEK from nonstop A333 to direct A333 to B738
CGK CAN from A333 to B738


Frequency downgrades:

CGK HKG from daily to 5 weekly


The A333 remains on the following routes:

CGK SIN PVG
CGK HKG
DPS SYD
DPS MEL
DPS KIX
DPS ICN

and shuttles between DPS and CGK in the afternoon and evening. The A333 has recently been deployed on the NRT route again to cover for a presidential charter on the B744 which is normally plying that route. The president of Indonesia seems to have taken a liking in the B744 instead of the usual A333.
 
thaia345
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Thu May 31, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 163):
Same source... Old A300 seats. Not much to talk about in other words.

My god, why do they still bother to keep them. How much can newer seats costs anyway? Maybe they should source some of the older SQ seats or MH's B777 setas pre-retrofit huh!
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Thu May 31, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting ThaiA345 (Reply 166):
How much can newer seats costs anyway? Maybe they should source some of the older SQ seats or MH's B777 setas pre-retrofit huh!

The answer is simple: there is no money whatsoever for product enhancements in Garuda. Look at the sorry state of the IFE system in the A333s and B744s. There isn't even money for a badly needed cabin reconfiguration on the B744s. No matter than an increase in J-class seats and the elimination of the premium economy section could bring in loads of extra money on the NRT route - there are no funds available for this. Same with the A333s, which could do with one fewer row in J with an increased seat pitch. I guess that every rupiah spent on such projects is a rupiah that can't be syphoned off elsewhere...
 
gffgold
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:23 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Thu May 31, 2007 8:47 am

Yet on the front page of GA's website the no. 1 news article is crowing about GA having made a profit - though when you convert it to hard currency even that is miniscule.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Thu May 31, 2007 1:55 pm

Quoting GFFgold (Reply 168):
Yet on the front page of GA's website the no. 1 news article is crowing about GA having made a profit - though when you convert it to hard currency even that is miniscule.

Let's not kid ourselves: the profit the airline is refering to is profit from the operation. The operation is indeed profitable, mainly because of the relatively high fares charged im the domestic network. Yet the global financial picture of GA is still very much colored red, not least because of large amounts of mainly unserviced debts, the largest chunk of which is with the European Export Credit Agency and pertains to the acquisition of the 6 A333s ten years ago.
 
lutfi
Posts: 889
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:33 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Thu May 31, 2007 7:22 pm

Operational profits - lol! "we would make money if we didn't have to pay for our planes or other assets..."
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Thu May 31, 2007 7:39 pm

Quoting Lutfi (Reply 170):
Operational profits - lol! "we would make money if we didn't have to pay for our planes or other assets..."

Welcome to Indonesia, the home of skewed reasoning...
 
thaia345
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Thu May 31, 2007 8:42 pm

So what is my best chances of getting aboard GA's B735 (only been on them once my entire life) I usually plys the CGK-SUB route the most...so are they used on this route at all?
 
kretek
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:50 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Thu May 31, 2007 8:46 pm

Can anyone tell me what the loads are on PER -CKG on 6 June? My parents will be flying on that day. A shame they won't be flying on 738,
HB-IWC: do you know why PER is not seeing 738? Not enough business traffic to deserve the new 738?
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Thu May 31, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting ThaiA345 (Reply 172):
So what is my best chances of getting aboard GA's B735 (only been on them once my entire life) I usually plys the CGK-SUB route the most...so are they used on this route at all?

Sometimes one is deployed for day or two, at which time you can see it shuttling up and down between CGK and SUB with 4 hours cycles, but the 735 is not a regular visitor to SUB. The 735 frequently visits Medan, Palembang, Semarang, Banjarmasin and occasionally even Jayapura and Timika.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Thu May 31, 2007 9:09 pm

Quoting Kretek (Reply 173):
Can anyone tell me what the loads are on PER -CKG on 6 June?

Very light.

Quoting Kretek (Reply 173):
My parents will be flying on that day. A shame they won't be flying on 738,

I still have the flight has a B738, but that is very much subject to change.

Quoting Kretek (Reply 173):
do you know why PER is not seeing 738? Not enough business traffic to deserve the new 738?

Sometimes it is pulled off the route because of light loads and swapped with a B734 from the SUB route, where the seats are often needed.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Thu May 31, 2007 9:14 pm

Garuda adds a replacement B734 for the ill-fated PK-GZC

Garuda has successfully sourced a B734 frame to replace the ill-fated PH-GZC which was lost in the March 07 calamity in Jogjakarta. The aircraft, registered PK-GZP, was most recently in service with Air One of Italy as EI-CXI and was before used by Air Europa of Spain as EC-GPI. It was built in 1997. The maiden commercial flight of this new aircraft at Garuda is currently under way as GA194 between CGK and MES.
 
thaia345
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 176):
The maiden commercial flight of this new aircraft at Garuda is currently under way as GA194 between CGK and MES.

So what interior does this a/c have? Old A300 seats again? eheheheh or are they running a hybrid with interiors from the former users?
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting ThaiA345 (Reply 177):
So what interior does this a/c have? Old A300 seats again? eheheheh or are they running a hybrid with interiors from the former users?

It's configured indentically to all other B734s in the fleet (16C/120Y) and with seats identical to those of the PK-GZ* former Aeroflot aircraft. The J-seats are sourced from the old A300s.
 
gffgold
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:23 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:29 am

Odd article on the news this morning about GA signing a pact with Mercrapi. Is this something akin to a codeshare agreement? I couldn't work out what it was all about.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:53 pm

Quoting GFFgold (Reply 179):
Odd article on the news this morning about GA signing a pact with Mercrapi. Is this something akin to a codeshare agreement? I couldn't work out what it was all about.

I hear the operations department of Merpati may be absorbed by Garuda, so the GA Operations Control Center would be managing the MZ operation as well. That is, of course, if we can find out where exactly Merpati is flying. I am surely looking forward to that one...
 
lutfi
Posts: 889
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:33 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:11 pm

I remember that Jakarta Post or someone actually published the lease rates of the GA A330. I was actually surprised – the rates were reasonable. OK, high for a ten year aircraft, but within ballpark for a standard twelve year finance lease (i.e. if the price was set back in 1995 for a twelve year deal) Certainly didn’t look like GA were getting ripped off, or being forced to pay over the odds. Especially if you consider the credit risk!

Presumably the EU export bank renegotiated the rates after krismon to market? I can imagine that when the aircraft were originally sourced, there was some creative invoicing, but doesn’t seem to be the case now. I.e. GA doesn’t really have “those nasty bankers make us pay over the odds” as an excuse. If anything, the banks are giving them a break by leasing them aircraft without a large credit risk premium…
 
mandala499
Topic Author
Posts: 6600
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:48 pm

Lutfi,
The monthly payments do sound OK... and in reality, had GA paid them up as scheduled, there would be no problems... Now someone tried to defer payments without negotiations, so, the figures begin to snowball into a huge amount, and the 50% increase in rate option available to the ECA (in event of default or mispayment on GA) was activated (not sure on what terms after activation)... so, from 400K a month a plane (IIRC) or thereabouts, they're now up to 600k!

So, if the govt wants to put someone as the responsible black sheep for the A330, they should put the former CEO into questioning (well, he is facing an accomplice to murder charges)... for "causing financial loss to the state"... and strangely, the punishment is higher than accomplice to murder (min 10 yrs vs min 5 yrs IIRC)...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:53 pm

Well, there has been a remarkable radio silence both within the airline and in the press about the entire A330 saga. The truth is that Garuda got a great deal back in 1997. There was even some kind of grace period built into the contract, to compensate for the Asian Monetary crisis which was about to peak just around that time. Garuda has nevertheless - in true Indonesian style, I may add - largely neglected its financial obligations pertaining to these 6 aircraft. Particularly the Indra Setiawan reign has been nothing less than disastrous for Garuda's already shaky reputation in financial circles.

The current guy, a banker himself, as well as the CEO preceding Setiawan, has taken much more interest in the case, and it has now apparently been decided that there are no resources to keep these aircraft in the fleet, hence the parking of two of them. I don't expect this to be the end of the story, and I fully expect the other aircraft to leave the fleet as well at some point, but, as said, it is very difficult to get information on what is really happening. The sheer fact that neither the airline nor the government are crying foul in the media points in the direction that the entire story is less than glorious for Indonesia and its national airline.
 
gffgold
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:23 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:07 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 180):
That is, of course, if we can find out where exactly Merpati is flying. I am surely looking forward to that one...

Hee hee!

Take seven fish from seven rivers, seven eggs from seven hens, seven mangos from seven trees. Place them on the grave of an ancient mystic on the seventh day of the seventh month. Have a good slug of Cap Tikus, give your kris a good buffing, and wait for divine guidance from the oracle...
 
thaia345
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:22 pm

Quoting GFFgold (Reply 184):
Take seven fish from seven rivers, seven eggs from seven hens, seven mangos from seven trees. Place them on the grave of an ancient mystic on the seventh day of the seventh month. Have a good slug of Cap Tikus, give your kris a good buffing, and wait for divine guidance from the oracle...

Amen to that !!!
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:39 pm

Another Twin Otter bites the dust in Papua

In the revolving door of twin otter crashes in Indonesia's easternmost province, a Trigana Air aircraft seems to have come down the non conventional way in Puncak Jaya. No details so far as to the exact route of this aircraft, but it's a safe bet that it won't fly again.
 
gffgold
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:23 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:53 pm

Just seen that on the TV news. Metro TV reports that the plane 'skidded after take-off' (tergelincir setelah take-off) though I suspect there must be some error there(?)
 
thaia345
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting GFFgold (Reply 187):
skidded after take-off

somehow if we look back up to 5 years ago till now, the most common reason used for crashes is skidded off runway or overran runway!
 
n757kw
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:08 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:48 am

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 158):
Does anyone know what the hell was going on with Lion at Makassar last night? Every Lion/Wings flight was delayed. My flight across to Surabaya was delayed 3 hrs!!!. I'm pretty narked off because not once did any of the Lion staff ever bother apologising for the delay. In fact, at the transfer desk they just handed me my ticket and didn't even bother letting me know that there was a delay.

I have found this to be a common practice in Indonesia in my travels there. I just expect it now and don't worry about it. I consider the departure and arrival times advertised to be rough estimates. Big grin

Now, I just returned from my second trip to Indonesia this year. I flew 4 domestic flights. 2 on GA, 1 on QZ, and 1 on JT. QZ makes boarding on WN seem like assigned seating. My QZ flight to PLM was called for boarding and there was a mad dash to the door. Talk about jockeying for position. I highly recommend avoiding the MD90 on Lion. The legroom in economy is the worst I have ever seen. I am 5'6" and my knees were touching the seat in front of me! The last time that happened to me was in China.

N757KW
"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
 
gffgold
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:23 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting ThaiA345 (Reply 188):
the most common reason used for crashes is skidded off runway or overran runway!

Yes, dear friend, but those planes skidded after LANDING not after TAKE-OFF gitu loh. I've yet to see that happen.
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:52 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 180):
That is, of course, if we can find out where exactly Merpati is flying. I am surely looking forward to that one...

Before I went to Papua you said " Do the people at Merpati in Jakarta even know where they are flying?" It's true, they don't know!!!! I think the problem might be that schedules on these "Pioneer" routes seem to change on a daily/weekly basis.

Also, in Biak I booked an MZ ticket routing BIK-UPG-MDC. They initially wanted to send me via Jayapura but it was something like 14hr journey time to go 700 miles or so. Going via UPG was cheaper, quicker and had a more desirable departure time, although it arrives in Manado at half past sod in the morning. Anyway, the cretin at the Merpati booked my ticket for the 23 May. Only trouble was the UPG-MDC leg leaves at 0010 on the 23rd, so he'd booked my connecting flight before my initial flight!!!!! I being the complete moronic idiot that I am didn't even bother checking he'd booked the right ticket, or written down my name correctly (they never bother checking your name against ID anyway). I only found out about the problem at the transfer desk in Makassar where they were asking why I didn't go on last night's flight which I was booked for.....well dur....look at the poxy ticket!!!!!! The Merpati staff at Makassar were excellent though.

Quoting N757KW (Reply 189):
I highly recommend avoiding the MD90 on Lion

Do they have a differing pitch throughout the aircraft? I'm sure the seats at the front have more legroom!

Another question about flying in Indonesia,

Why do some airports use the 2 letter code and some the 3 letter code?
 
mandala499
Topic Author
Posts: 6600
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:04 pm

Coz some the carriers don't have 2 letter IATA or Pseudo-IATA codes...
They all have the 3 letter ICAO carrier code though...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:30 pm

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 191):
Before I went to Papua you said " Do the people at Merpati in Jakarta even know where they are flying?" It's true, they don't know!!!! I think the problem might be that schedules on these "Pioneer" routes seem to change on a daily/weekly basis.

It looks to me as if the people in Jakarta have no idea what's happening with the Merpati operation at the outskirts, particularly anything east of UPG. It is also very difficult to have anything issued on one ticket if the flight doesn't actually originate in CGK. The fares exist, but somehow there is no access to any reservation system or availability inventory. Even schedules are near impossible to go by. I have previously tried to phone the MZ DJJ and BIK offices, but that hasn't helped either. Finally, I got a hold of the private number of some MZ operations manager in the east, and he provides me with more or less accurate information when I need it.

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 191):
Only trouble was the UPG-MDC leg leaves at 0010 on the 23rd, so he'd booked my connecting flight before my initial flight

Daily occurrence here and the antiquated reservations and booking systems are of zero help in actually detecting these errors. Boarding Merpati is like boarding a bus: passenger ID, connectivity and such things are of zero importance. When booking MZ and the like, I usually advise people to leave at least a night between "connecting" flights that are not put on the same ticket.
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:02 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 193):
Daily occurrence here and the antiquated reservations and booking systems are of zero help in actually detecting these errors. Boarding Merpati is like boarding a bus: passenger ID, connectivity and such things are of zero importance. When booking MZ and the like, I usually advise people to leave at least a night between "connecting" flights that are not put on the same ticket.

This was put on the same ticket, which I why I'm amazed that the computer didn't realize the mistake!
 
thaia345
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:10 pm

By the way, I am sure all of you know that there are tons of aircraft parked in the middle of CGK. Like ol4 KLM 747, Jatayu 727, a lot of non functioning GA planes, actually the lists just goes on and on!

What are the actual fate of those aircraft? Maybe if they are just left to rot there, some of us should open a museum and charge to visit those aircraft. I am sure if we have Uang Rokok for the Angkasa Pura guys, anything is possible ahhaahhahahah  Smile
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4117
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:25 pm

Quoting ThaiA345 (Reply 195):
What are the actual fate of those aircraft?

CGK is a very cheap parking bay. Most of these frames were at one time destined for service here in the region, and some of them have actually served with Asian airlines. Now, it seems cheaper to have them sit here than to fly them to some desert in North America.
 
mandala499
Topic Author
Posts: 6600
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:26 pm

ThaiA345...
Uang rokok won't get you anywhere much nowadays.
There's a "new apron for derelict aircraft" just opposite WC1&2 from Apron D... I have yet to find the way to get there.

For the stuff in Remote C, security's quite edgy about people wanting to go there.

For the stuff in GMF... unless you're an official trip to enter GMF, or if you're just trying to shoot some photos off the fence, the security will call the police (or they point their shotguns at you)...

It's been tried...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
User avatar
paparadzi
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:16 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:15 pm

Too bad, because there are some very interesting aircraft on the ground in CGK.
Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.
 
thaia345
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 pm

RE: Indonesia Aviation Thread 1

Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:19 am

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 197):
For the stuff in Remote C, security's quite edgy about people wanting to go there.

Maybe HB-IWC can help us on this  Smile or maybe we can use 9MMAR trick to dress like a farmer working his fields next to the airoprt eheheheh then loiter into the airport grounds claiming we are looking for some lost goats !!! (just a crazy thought guys, don't shoot me on this )!!

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