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Flying-Tiger
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Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:18 pm

Quote from FI:

Quote:
The heritage de Havilland DHC-6 Twin Otter is making a comeback after two decades, following a decision by Canada’s Viking Air, which owns the type certificates for seven de Havilland heritage aircraft, to restart production.



Quote:
Viking had set a figure of around 12 orders as a benchmark to restarting production, Curtis says but the company has secured 27 orders and options already, half for seaplane configured Twin Otters.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...estarts-twin-otter-production.html

Interesting to see the 19-seater sector being revived a bit. They may not be sexy, but for many destinations and services there is nothing else sensible. Good luck to Viking, it seems that they are off to a good start.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A343/346, A359, A380,AT4,AT7,B712, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3, B762/763,B772/77W,CR2/7/9/K,ER3/4,E70/75/90/95, F50/70/100,M11,L15,SF3,S20, AR8/1, 142/143,... 330.860 miles and counting.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:22 pm

This is truly amazing that a production line that as been closed so long will be revived.

But come to think about it, there simply are no aircrafts currently on the market that can do the kind of job those old Twin Otters do.

All I can think of is the Caravan (smaller and single engine), the Beech 1900 (more expensive to operate, limited STOL capacity and no floats) or the Let 410 (not really distributed in North America, relatively unknown and no floats...).
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
FCKC
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:49 pm

So , who are the new customers ?
Probably one of them is Greek.
 
Joost
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:12 pm

Luckily, there is data to review:
http://aviation-safety.net/database/...d=typecode&var=182%&lang=en&page=3

Not all accidents are well documented. Those that are, usually do show a 'classic' list of combinations of factors that lead to crashes: the sum of bed weather, false maintainance, wrong procedures by the crew, etc, etc usually lead to the crash. There are a few crashes were engine failure was mentioned as a cause, but in the cases where it's described in more detail, it's usually just one of the things that went wrong, or a result of wrong maintainence.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:35 pm

Don't forget the fact that most Twin Otter frames are now getting old, thus cheap, and increasingly operated by third world operators less than prone on favoring safety over buckmaking...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
macc
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:14 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
They may not be sexy

I totally love them! flying low over dschungel in Borneo on MHs Twin Otter was very sexy. Compared to Cessnas or Lets, this plane is a beauty. Great to see that this plane gets a revival.
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:08 pm

Apparently the old saying "nothing can replace a DC-3, except another DC-3" applies to the Twotter as well.
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SEPilot
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 6):
Apparently the old saying "nothing can replace a DC-3, except another DC-3" applies to the Twotter as well.

Very true; new designs generally concentrate on faster, higher, and heavier; bush operators have few modern aircraft suitable except the Cessna Caravan, and that's about it. It's nice to see that at least one (and hopefully more) of the old DeHavilland planes are coming back-they really have never been equalled for bush flying.
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F9Animal
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:01 am

I bet Scenic Airlines in LAS is foaming out of the mouth with this news. It is a perfect aircraft for their operation.
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PADSpot
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 1):
This is truly amazing that a production line that as been closed so long will be revived.

The article doesn't say whether they're gonna use the old tooling and jigs ...
 
a380heavy
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:09 am

I wouldn't be too surprised if Maldivian Air Taxi don't order some.

I have had the pleasure of flying 4 times in their Twin Otter floatplanes.

Pilots were dressed in crisp white shirts, khaki shorts and bare feet!!!

This is real flying - if you get chance get yourselves down to Male airport and experience Maldivian Air Taxi's for yourselves. These people fly/sail with amazing skill and you sit directly behind the pilots able to watch everything they're doing.

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c172akula
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting A380Heavy (Reply 10):
I wouldn't be too surprised if Maldivian Air Taxi don't order some.

Well that would be Kenn Borek Air up in YYC that would order them, as they operate the Maldivian Air Taxi over there.

I think they are the largest operator of the type currently, I'd have to think they'd get in on some new frames as well.
 
DesertAir
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:20 am

I flew on a Twin Otter in the early 80's from SFO to SCK. It was a great ride on this small plane. We flew low enough to get a good look at the Altamonts and Central Valley.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
I bet Scenic Airlines in LAS is foaming out of the mouth with this news. It is a perfect aircraft for their operation.

Don't they currently use the Caravan? When I flew into 61B (Boulder City), there was a tour operator on the field who used the Caravan for Grand Canyon flights...
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KELPkid
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:46 am

Good news for the Twotter, and for "real" aviation enthusiasts all over the world  cloudnine  I just wonder if they'll upgrade the engines/props for Stage III and Stage IV compliance...if there's one thing the Twotter wasn't, it wasn't quiet  Wink
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Goldenshield
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:01 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 13):
Don't they currently use the Caravan?

They use the twin otter for sight-seeing and limited part 121 flying, and the Beech 1900 strictly for 121 use.
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panam330
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:25 am

Very good to hear! It will certainly be odd to see a Twin Otter with a glass cockpit though!
 
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knope2001
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:30 am

Wow...I really had to check if this thread was started on 4/1. But it appears to not be an April Fool's joke. Good for them!
 
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LTU932
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:33 am

I wonder if 5C (Nature Air) will eventually order those Twin Otter NGs. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if they do, because they have a sizeable fleet of Twin Otters operating domestic flights out of SYQ.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
fridgmus
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:52 am

OUTSTANDING! Made a lot skydives out of Twin Otters, one of my most favorite jump planes. Even mooched a little right seat time from a cool pilot!  bigthumbsup 

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dhhornet
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:53 am

Twin Otter 1 - Rekkof 0
 
KELPkid
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting DHHornet (Reply 20):
Twin Otter 1 - Rekkof 0

ooh, hope Willem (Aviopic) doesn't see that  Sad
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CX747
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:02 am

Outstanding news. This aircraft is an amazing platform and it is good to hear that a "quality" design will once again be rolling down the assembly lines.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
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LTU932
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):
ooh, hope Willem (Aviopic) doesn't see that

Don't worry, it's not like the DHC-6 is competing directly against the Fokker 100.  Wink
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
dhhornet
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 23):
Don't worry, it's not like the DHC-6 is competing directly against the Fokker 100

But it will be a reality!
 
Viscount724
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 6):
Apparently the old saying "nothing can replace a DC-3, except another DC-3" applies to the Twotter as well.

Several other De Havilland Canada products also never really had any good replacements, especially the single-engine Beaver which remains one of the most capable aircraft of its type (especially when on floats) almost 60 years after its first flight (August 16, 1947). Many of the almost 1700 built are still flying.

And the single Otter (to which the Twin Otter is closely related...same fuselage section and almost identical wing), plus the Caribou, Buffalo and Dash-7 had unique capabilities also, especially their impressive STOL (short takeoff/landing) performance, like the Twin Otter.
 
smashme33
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:53 am

This is really great news!
 
Viscount724
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:03 am

One happy customer, probably the only carrier with both 787s and Twin Otters on order:

http://www.nation.sc/index1024.php?art=8767

[Edited 2007-04-03 22:05:00]
 
miaskies
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:24 am

Awesome news! great little aircraft... Maybe Air Caraibes can get some news one. Love seeing them dive into St. Barth's.
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FoxBravo
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:25 am

This is fantastic news indeed. I am a big fan of the Twin Otter and have enjoyed flights on them in beautiful and remote places from Moorea to Tanzania.

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 1):
All I can think of is the Caravan (smaller and single engine), the Beech 1900 (more expensive to operate, limited STOL capacity and no floats) or the Let 410 (not really distributed in North America, relatively unknown and no floats...).

Exactly. The Dornier 228 and Harbin Y-12 have also tried, with limited success, to break into this market. However, the fact that so many Twin Otters remain in service in so many parts of the world is a tribute to the fact that no one has been able to develop a perfect replacement. With more powerful engines, an upgraded cockpit and other improvements, the Twotter will be even harder to beat!

I wish Viking the best of luck in this exciting project, and look forward to seeing the first Series 400 roll off the line!

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MCOflyer
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting Macc (Reply 5):
Compared to Cessnas or Lets, this plane is a beauty. Great to see that this plane gets a revival.



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
I bet Scenic Airlines in LAS is foaming out of the mouth with this news. It is a perfect aircraft for their operation.

Agreed. Any idea on what type of PWC engines their using?

MCOflyer
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AirbusA6
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:34 am

Thinking about alternatives, the Chinese Y12 is probably the only one in production? I can't see too many western operators choosing it over a relaunched Twin Otter though...
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:36 am

Are those Eagle F-27s (ex Mesaba) still at GCY? There were a couple tour carriers flying Twin otters when I was out there in 1999.
 
bond007
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 30):
Agreed. Any idea on what type of PWC engines their using?

PT6A-34 or -35

Jimbo
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MaverickM11
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 2):
who are the new customers ?

Apparently Air Seychelles
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PavlovsDog
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:09 am

I see on the Beriev web page that they have an interesting amphibious design called the BE-112.



They state that: "Be-112 is a unique amphibian platform that can pioneer new routes for passenger/cargo transportation, tourist and special flights.
Be-112 is fitted with a cargo ramp in the aft part to enable loading of various cargo including vehicles and oversize cargo, which significantly improves the operating versatility of the amphibious aircraft.

Maximum takeoff weight, kg 11,000
Maximum payload, kg 2350
Ecocnomic cruise speed (ISA, 3,000 m), km/h 370
Flight range with loa 2100 kg (ISA, 3,000 m, 0.5 hour fuel reserve), km 1,000
Takeoff run on water, m 860
Landing roll on water, m 515
Numbur of passenger (seats pitch 810 mm) 27"

Anyways the new of the Twin Otter getting new lease on life is certainly positive. I just hope they're quieter than the current aircraft.
 
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breiz
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
if there's one thing the Twotter wasn't, it wasn't quiet

Quite right, and rough as well. But it brought you there. Landings in snowy, windy dark winter days on small land-stripes were always a show (inside and outside, although you would be greener inside).
The Norwegians living in remote places were so fond of the Twin Otter that a song was written about it.
I'm glad it will be produced again.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:29 am

What about restarting the GAF Nomad line. Think Boeing have the rights there.

Ruscoe
 
Jj
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:39 am

Looks great!

http://www.vikingair.com/uploadedFiles/to_brochure.pdf

Hope they do great in this project and decide to restart other DeHavilland classics!
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:07 am

For sure some of the airlines down here in BZE coudl use them....they have a few on lease right now that operate alongside the caravans....

everyone is focussing on the floats....but remember not all of the orders are for float planes....

I would think them restarting the line would spur many to get a few orders in while they have the chance..everyone from skydiving teams to 3rd world scheduled operators to artic users.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
if there's one thing the Twotter wasn't, it wasn't quiet

In my case, it isn't. I lived so many years near SYQ, 5C's home base, that nowadays, I can distinguish the sound of a Twin Otter from any other prop that flies in and out of SYQ.  Wink

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CanadianNorth
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 7):
old DeHavilland planes are coming back-they really have never been equalled for bush flying.

Sounds great eh. It's really great that they are making a comeback. Agree 100%, when it comes to bush flying you simply can't beat the Beavers, Otters and Twin Otters. Simply awesome bush planes, built like tanks and can pretty much take off and land on my front lawn...



CanadianNorth
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:37 pm

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 4):
Don't forget the fact that most Twin Otter frames are now getting old, thus cheap, and increasingly operated by third world operators less than prone on favoring safety over buckmaking...

And don't forget that not a lot of Trotters only see 10,000 by 150 foot paved runways exclusively either.

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 16):
It will certainly be odd to see a Twin Otter with a glass cockpit though!

The one that is used by Shared Services on the North Slope of Alaska has one. It was originally purchased by ARCO oil back in the late 80's and I think it is the sixth to the last one off the original production line.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 37):
What about restarting the GAF Nomad line.

The Nomad has a couple of issues, it uses Allison 250 engines, which while an excellent and widespread helicopter engine, seems to have stalled out once you put a prop on it. They also are underpowered with their smaller plants.

I have been told that some of the mining companies in Australia are prohibited from chartering Nomads for crew changes from remote sites by their insurance providers. They MU-2 is also another one they don't like.
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757MDE
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:59 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 31):
Thinking about alternatives, the Chinese Y12 is probably the only one in production? I can't see too many western operators choosing it over a relaunched Twin Otter though...

The CASA 212-400 is also in production as far as I know, I don't know how good of a replacement it would be for the Twin Otter, but it's a quite sturdy and simple Aircraft with STOL performance as well.

I'm quite glad to see the Twin Otter being produced again, had the chance to fly them several times when they were operated by Aces Colombia. Flying in a small plane without cockpit door has got to be a blast!
If, for example, you came at four o'clock in the afternoon, then at three o'clock I shall begin to have existential angst because you nag as hell. www.alpharamirez.com
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:08 pm

The Let 410 UPV-E20 is also under some kind of revival and may be a cheaper alternative.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...evive-as-expansion-plan-takes.html

Not sure if P&W PT6A-27s are still an option on these - ditto with western avionics. But it would be tough beating the Twotter.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:51 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 44):
Not sure if P&W PT6A-27s are still an option on these - ditto with western avionics. But it would be tough beating the Twotter.

AFAIK they still come with the Walters. Those last generation Walters now come with a higher, more 'respectable' TBO, more power and have come to be pretty reliable. Furthermore, they're still waaaay cheaper than PT-6s.

What they do now is take an old airframe, strip it completely and rebuild it completely from the ground up with the new engines, avionics and all kinds of upgrades. They come JAR (and FAR, I believe) certified out of the box.
They're still pretty good aicrafts, cheap to operate and to maintain if you find a good mechanic and know where to get the spares.

It has had limited exposure in western countries though and few people have enough knowledge of it to effectively market it and give operators good support.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
planemaker
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:01 am

FYI, it was Boeing that shut down the DHC-6 production line!!

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 4):
Don't forget the fact that most Twin Otter frames are now getting old, thus cheap, and increasingly operated by third world operators less than prone on favoring safety over buckmaking...

They are not getting cheap as they are snapped up immediately when one is rearely available.

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 11):
Well that would be Kenn Borek Air up in YYC that would order them, as they operate the Maldivian Air Taxi over there.

I think they are the largest operator of the type currently, I'd have to think they'd get in on some new frames as well.

Here is a top 10 list of who is using the DHC-6:

Maldavian Air Taxi 18
Trans Maldavian 16
Libyian Arab Airlines 16
Kenn Borak Air 14
Scenic Airlines11
Zimex 10
Sonair 9
LADE 9
Air Tindi 6
Air Inuit 6

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 43):
The CASA 212-400 is also in production as far as I know, I don't know how good of a replacement it would be for the Twin Otter, but it's a quite sturdy and simple Aircraft with STOL performance as well.

In comparison to the DHC-6... the 212-400 ain't STOL. Nothing is STOL like the DHC-6!!! With 60 degrees of flap (and a not recommended application of "beta" on the approach)... no other twin can remotely drop into a clearing like it!  Big grin
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757MDE
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 46):
Here is a top 10 list of who is using the DHC-6

Aerolínea de Antioquia here in Colombia uses three ex Aces' birds.

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 46):
Nothing is STOL like the DHC-6!!!

That's true!, but the C-212-400 has good take off performance. I used to see Satena's C-212-300 when they were operating and they also took off quite fast. You're right though, nothing is really STOL compared to the Twin Otter!.
I still wonder how good a replacement the C-212-400 would be.

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 45):
It has had limited exposure in western countries though and few people have enough knowledge of it to effectively market it and give operators good support

The Let-410 fleet in Colombia has done anything but grow in Colombia in the last years, that must be a sign that they're good Aircraft because we don't have the easier operating conditions. Two of them have crashed but the both crashes were a combination of crew error and bad weather. I wouldn't feel unsafe in a Let-410 at all.
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avt007
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 46):
Libyian Arab Airlines 16

Libyan Arab's entire fleet is grounded due to lack of money/maintenance. However, there are a number of Twotters in the country, since they can land almost anywhere in the desert, great for oilfield support.
 
planemaker
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RE: Twin Otter To Be Restarted, 27 Commitments

Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:38 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 47):
That's true!, but the C-212-400 has good take off performance. I used to see Satena's C-212-300 when they were operating and they also took off quite fast. You're right though, nothing is really STOL compared to the Twin Otter!.

Of course, everything is relative. The DHC-6 was designed for STOL while the 212 wasn't.

FYI, here is the data for the DHC-6...

STOL take-off: 700 ft. (over 50 ft obstacle - 1200 ft.)
STOL landing: 515 ft. (over 50 ft obstacle - 1050 ft.)

For the C-212-400...

T/O: 1388/1886
Landing: 881/1704
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