rootsair
Topic Author
Posts: 4013
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:04 pm

Looking at a possibilityof organising a round the world trip with one of the alliance tickets, I realised that Skyteam actually has no no airline with destinations either in australia nor New Zealand ! Since I have flying blue programme and much like skyteam, I wanted to make this trip with them but since there cannot be a RTW trip without going to Australia I might do it with Star Alliance.

Why is it that Skyteam is so weak in Australia ?
Are they planning something to actually increase offer? This would not mean having an Australian air line in their network (now only Virgin blue could be an option), but to get an airline in its alliance which actually flies to either australia or NZ

Regards
BM
 airplane   wave 
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7131
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:33 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
Looking at a possibilityof organising a round the world trip with one of the alliance tickets, I realised that Skyteam actually has no no airline with destinations either in australia nor New Zealand ! Since I have flying blue programme and much like skyteam, I wanted to make this trip with them but since there cannot be a RTW trip without going to Australia I might do it with Star Alliance.

KE via ICN. They fly to AKL, SYD, BNE, NAN also CHC has a seasonal service.

I guess you are flying from the US though which is a bit of a gap in their network.

People have mentioned using HNL as a hub and having either an NW, DL or CO aircraft fly downunder from there with all the connections, there are other possibilities but none of the airlines seem to have the right equipment or enough say 772ER's.
 
alangirvan
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 2:13 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:17 pm

Although Qantas is a member of oneworld, they are in the Continental FF Program. So if you are looking to earn points with CO you can fly QF. You will have to read the CO rules more closely than I did if you want to use points to pay for your ride on QF.
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:21 pm

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 2):
Although Qantas is a member of oneworld, they are in the Continental FF Program. So if you are looking to earn points with CO you can fly QF. You will have to read the CO rules more closely than I did if you want to use points to pay for your ride on QF.

Also, MAS code-shares with KLM, so from Europe Australia/NZ is covered by MAS.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:41 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
Why is it that Skyteam is so weak in Australia ?

...because Malaysia Airlines is not a member (yet)
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:57 pm

Quoting KEno (Reply 4):
...because Malaysia Airlines is not a member (yet)

Skyteam needs to get MAS onboard quickly. Let's hope the rest of Skyteam don't drag their high standards down, but the other way around though!!!
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
icarus75
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:18 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:13 pm

QF codeshares with AF from CDG with a stop in Singapore.
CDG/SIN is done by AF and SIN/SYD by QF
Flying is amazing!
 
rootsair
Topic Author
Posts: 4013
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting Kappel (Reply 3):
Also, MAS code-shares with KLM, so from Europe Australia/NZ is covered by MAS.



Quoting KEno (Reply 4):
...because Malaysia Airlines is not a member (yet)



Quoting Kappel (Reply 5):
Skyteam needs to get MAS onboard quickly. Let's hope the rest of Skyteam don't drag their high standards down, but the other way around though!!!

Has MAS stated when abouts they hope to get in. I know they are in a restructuring plan and that on the short term (2-3 years) they would like to join but heard no further news about it. MAS in skyteam would be extremely beneficial !

Regads
BM
 airplane   wave 
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7131
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:37 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 7):
Has MAS stated when abouts they hope to get in. I know they are in a restructuring plan and that on the short term (2-3 years) they would like to join but heard no further news about it. MAS in skyteam would be extremely beneficial !

Still leaves a gap in the network from the US to Australia/NZ. While TN codeshare with QF and now NZ on SYD/AKL-PPT-LAX/JFK flights maybe they could join?

MH would be very good aswell since KE don't offer great connections Europe-Australia/NZ and MH offer more destinations aswell. Having said that KE have enough local traffic anyway to fill their aircraft.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 8):
While TN codeshare with QF and now NZ on SYD/AKL-PPT-LAX/JFK flights maybe they could join?

Yeah it seems as though TN or SB would be good options. I was also thinking of FJ since they offer those 'bula europe' fares in conjunction with KLM here in New Zealand, even though they are part owned by QF.
 
User avatar
deltadawg
Posts: 1013
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:56 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:06 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 7):
Has MAS stated when abouts they hope to get in. I know they are in a restructuring plan and that on the short term (2-3 years) they would like to join but heard no further news about it. MAS in skyteam would be extremely beneficial !

MH's entry is essentially being held up by AF. I agree with you all that Australia and NZ are a gap but go talk to AF to get MH into SkyTeam earlier.

Also, DL is looking at ATL-SYD but must wait on the a/c (772LR) to beat QF on the proposed SYD-DFW route. If DL does a downunder route look for both ATL-SYD as well as a LAX-SYD/ACK (as part of the LAX re-build and secondary part of international expansion).

On another note, SkyTeam I believe should be courting VirginBlue with the recent purchase of Boeings 777's and the intent to do LAX & SFO to Australia routes as well as intended Australia to SE Asia & Japan. Seems to be the logical choice.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
jfk777
Posts: 7162
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:22 pm

I would bet Delta wants to serve Australia for two reasons. The DL's LAX international push and the capabilty of the 772LR to reach Sydney from Atlanta as well. The US-Australia market is one of the least served by USA airlines and should get a second airline flying the stars and stripes down under.
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 598
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
I realised that Skyteam actually has no no airline with destinations either in australia nor New Zealand !

Not true ... not only does KE fly there as described above, but CO flies several times weekly to CNS from GUM - technically an OZ-USA nonstop. Technically. And not daily. And only with two-three stops from the US mainland.

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 2):
Although Qantas is a member of oneworld, they are in the Continental FF Program. So if you are looking to earn points with CO you can fly QF. You will have to read the CO rules more closely than I did if you want to use points to pay for your ride on QF.

QF between OZ and US gateways earn full mileage at most coach fares, with bonus for Biz or First. Also, QF's OZ flights in said premium cabins are some of the best bargains in OnePass.

The downside: No EQM's are awarded to OnePass members on any QF service.

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 10):
Also, DL is looking at ATL-SYD but must wait on the a/c (772LR) to beat QF on the proposed SYD-DFW route. If DL does a downunder route look for both ATL-SYD as well as a LAX-SYD/ACK (as part of the LAX re-build and secondary part of international expansion).

This is where the cursor rollever function gets really handy. I mean, gosh! I thought ACK was big stuff getting B6 service from JFK, and here's DL wanting to run a 77L SYD-LAX-ACK. I guess there must be a lot of rich Australian expats vacationing on Nantucket.

I'm just playing with you!!!!!!

Seriously, what's your source for the above information? I hope it's not the thread I started a few weeks back asking whether DL might do ATL-SYD...
 
iahflyer
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:34 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:53 am

CO needs to do IAH-SYD/AKL immediately. Avoiding LAX is a dream for all of us.
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
 
rootsair
Topic Author
Posts: 4013
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 11):
I would bet Delta wants to serve Australia for two reasons. The DL's LAX international push and the capabilty of the 772LR to reach Sydney from Atl

would you know when DL is getting their 772LR's ?

thanks
BM  airplane   wave 
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
Silver764
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:18 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:07 am

back about 6 months or so there were some random quote from the higher ups, in the AJC not sure if Whitehurst or Bastian mentioning Australia. Came up in a couple AJC's. Not sure if they were serious or not but it was in the paper...but to me seemed like saying it in passing. My source inside Delta has heard nothing....
 
PavlovsDog
Posts: 552
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 11):
The US-Australia market is one of the least served by USA airlines and should get a second airline flying the stars and stripes down under.

Hawaiian flies the Stars and Stripes down under. Continental does as well as though it flies from Guam not the 50 states.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 13):
CO needs to do IAH-SYD/AKL immediately

lil' difficult for them to do, as nothing in their fleet is capable of immediately instituting such a route.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3649
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
Why is it that Skyteam is so weak in Australia ?

As ZK-NBT said earlier, KE fly from ICN to:
- BNE and SYD in Australia
- AKL and CHC (seasonally) in New Zealand and
- NAN in Fiji

It is also very likely, as speculated on this thread, that MH will soon announce its SkyTeam intentions. There are also code-share links between AF & QF from Europe etc so flights from Europe and Asia aren't too poorly serviced from the SkyTeam.

The biggest weakness in the global SkyTeam network (as affects Oceania) is from North America where there are four carriers (CO, DL, NW and AM), none of which fly here (to Oceania). CO used to fly here in the 80's, NW have a strong presence in the north Pacific. There are treaty rights for another U.S. carrier to link North America to both Australia and New Zealand. Sounds like an opportunity.

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
I wanted to make this trip with them but since there cannot be a RTW trip without going to Australia I might do it with Star Alliance.

If you did it with oneworld, you'd be able to to fly from Australia and New Zealand to South America with LA, the only alliance that links the two continents/parts of the world (and may provide better links to Central America).

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 12):
Not true ... not only does KE fly there as described above, but CO flies several times weekly to CNS from GUM - technically an OZ-USA nonstop. Technically. And not daily. And only with two-three stops from the US mainland.

But how does one actually get to CNS from a KE service to connect to the CO service?
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5954
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 13):
CO needs to do IAH-SYD/AKL immediately. Avoiding LAX is a dream for all of us.

The problem with both ATL/IAH-SYD is that they would have to fly over Mexico. I have heard that this is holding up the start up for some of the airlines. I personally have doubts about both routes. I would love to see IAH-SYD more than ATL-SYD.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:35 am

Link CO and KE service...

KE..ICN-GUM
CO...GUM-CNS

cheers
 
sparklehorse12
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:19 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:26 am

IAD SYD? Interesting one.........DFW to SYD is a code share on QF and I beleive it is profitable....
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
Silver764
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:18 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:29 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 20):
I would love to see IAH-SYD more than ATL-SYD.

Speaking for yourself, many of us Atlantans would love direct service and I have no doubt DL would do fine on the service from east coasters not wanting to connect in LAX and there is actually tons of people in the south that would suport the service.

Rest assured I'll be one of the first on that flight if it happens. For now, my trip this fall will do connecting in LAX to QF.

One day I'll do the Gum service into CNS.....
 
User avatar
centrair
Posts: 2896
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:33 am

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 21):
KE..ICN-GUM
CO...GUM-CNS

Then one has to backtrack. If that is okay, then do it.

You could do
KE ICN-GUM
CO GUM-CNS
CO CNS-GUM
NW GUM-NRT

Then you can connect to where you need to go.
To make more interesting.
You could go
NW GUM-KIX 752
NW KIX-HNL A333

Skyteam needs some kind of direct link down there. DL, CO, or NW could all do it. (NW used to)

You can do it will a lot of codeshares but not Skyteam members.
JetStar codeshares with NW on certain flights.
MH codeshares with some members on certain routes.
Garuda used to (not sure) give miles on certain routes as well.

What a hole in the the network!

[Edited 2007-04-11 04:36:26]
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5954
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:59 am

Quoting Silver764 (Reply 23):
Speaking for yourself, many of us Atlantans would love direct service and I have no doubt DL would do fine on the service from east coasters not wanting to connect in LAX and there is actually tons of people in the south that would suport the service.

To be honest, I have no real dog in the fight. I live in Los Angeles and as everyone on here knows, we have more than enough service to Australia. But I do think that IAH is slight better located to serve SYD than ATL assuming that they both can fly over Mexico. If not, they both suck.

I dont doubt that there are alot of people who dont wont to connect in LAX. LAX is not set up for connections. LAX has what ATL doesnt and vice versa. ATL provides easier connections and LAX's local market is much larger that ATL's. One thing to consider (and honestly this wont be known until its actually tried) is if the east coast (or IAH) can support a flight to SYD simply because most of the local market is in the West.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5044
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:39 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 25):
But I do think that IAH is slight better located to serve SYD than ATL assuming that they both can fly over Mexico. If not, they both suck.



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 20):
The problem with both ATL/IAH-SYD is that they would have to fly over Mexico. I have heard that this is holding up the start up for some of the airlines. I personally have doubts about both routes. I would love to see IAH-SYD more than ATL-SYD.

The "Mexico" problem is grossly overstated! The following list shows the distance Great Circle/the distance GC avoiding Mexican airspace by flying via SAN/the differance between the first two (all in nm):
ATL-SYD 8068/8169/101
IAH-SYD 7470/7658/188
DFW-SYD 7454/7543/89

Link: http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=a...avy&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=180&ETOPS=240

As you can see the differance is minimal.

A MUCH bigger factor is the lack of O&D traffic between Oz and ATL, IAH & DFW, it's small! DFW will most likely work on connecting traffic because of AAs vast hub and its better geographical location for connections. IAH is as good for geographical location but does CO offer anywhere the connections here as AA does at DFW? ATL seems most unlikely as it is poorly positioned geographically for anywhere NOT north or east of ATL so connection traffic will be less attractive. (I know DL has a vast number of connections at ATL, BUT comming from Oz unless your destination is north and or east of the connection point you will be back tracking. I don't know about USAians but Ozzies HATE to back track, or even side track (eg SYD-MEL-SIN). From ATL you basically only have the east coast, from DFW/IAH you have the mid west plus the east coast, from LAX of course you have the WHOLE country without back tracking, which is why services are currently consertrated there).

If DL & Skyteam is serious about services to Oz, IMHO their best bet is LAX-MEL. It currently has NO non stop service by a US carrier and is a bit short changed by QF due to operational considerations (one service daily is sent via AKL to maintain AKL-LAX service) so it offers the most oppunitity for an inoviate carrier to jump in and establish itself.

But, of course I bet DL can find MORE profitable work for their B772LR elsewhere.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 18):
The biggest weakness in the global SkyTeam network (as affects Oceania) is from North America where there are four carriers (CO, DL, NW and AM), none of which fly here (to Oceania). CO used to fly here in the 80's, NW have a strong presence in the north Pacific. There are treaty rights for another U.S. carrier to link North America to both Australia and New Zealand. Sounds like an opportunity.

True but AF flies LAX-PPT in code-share with DL

To come back to the question originally asked, you can fly around the world with a skyteam award ticket trough Australia with the following routing (by example) : LAX-PPT-NOU-SYD-SIN-CDG-etc
The PPT-NOU-SYD legs are operated by Aircalin, the airline of New Caledonia, which uses Flying Blue as their FFP. As said before, the SYD-SIN is a code-share agreement QF/AF. This is a very nice routing. How nice is French Ploynesia is well known and I strongly encourage you to stop in NOU and discover the splendors of New Caledonia.
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 598
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 26):
IAH is as good for geographical location but does CO offer anywhere the connections here as AA does at DFW?

Yes. You can go almost anyplace in North America nonstop from either hub. AA is somewhat larger, but that's as much a matter of frequency if anything else - with proper timing of the overseas flight, frequency is not an issue.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7020
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 18):
The biggest weakness in the global SkyTeam network (as affects Oceania) is from North America where there are four carriers (CO, DL, NW and AM), none of which fly here (to Oceania).

I am sending a letter to Santa Claus later this year asking for 3 weekly AM 787-800 flights routed MEX-ACA-SYD-ACA-MEX.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 24):
CO GUM-CNS
CO CNS-GUM

Seems many people forget CO flies to CNS, so thanks for reminding us Centrair... anyway, this is by no means sufficient because CNS is basically a leisure destination and is far from the two major cities of Australia. I too agree that one North American SkyTeam member should try SYD or MEL asap.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5954
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 26):
The "Mexico" problem is grossly overstated!

Ok, I can buy that.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 26):
A MUCH bigger factor is the lack of O&D traffic between Oz and ATL, IAH & DFW, it's small!

Yes, this is what ive been saying all along. There is slightly more of a market in Texas than the South for Australia, so I think IAH or DFW would be the better choice. Not to mention geographic location which is much better in Texas than ATL.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 26):
But, of course I bet DL can find MORE profitable work for their B772LR elsewhere.

Very true. I find it ridiculous that DL would even consider it, but who knows they might not be. When starting new routes from ATL, they shouldnt fight ATL's good geographic location. They should try ATL-JNB (nonstop) or ATL-INDIA, or even ATL-Asia, but not ATL-SYD. ATL's poor geogrphic location (in respect to Australia) and ATL's non existant market (with respect to Australia) would make it a failure. Flying ATL-SYD would be comparable to someone trying to fly LAX-JNB nonstop and neglecting the larger markets to South Africa on the east coast. The local market to Australia is on the west coast.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
DJ748
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:16 pm

RE: Skyteam Considering Australian/NZ Market?

Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:52 pm

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 12):
but CO flies several times weekly to CNS from GUM - technically an OZ-USA nonstop. Technically. And not daily. And only with two-three stops from the US mainland.

Certainly do, by they are flown at night. Would be better during the day if you ask me, particularly if they were to setup an agreement with DJ.

I do remember reading quite a while ago that CO were going to be replacing their GUM-HNL route with GUM-LAX. Does anyone know any further details about this? It would be good to see that happen, as it could give pax a potential leisure destination in Guam (if the beaches are any good there) on the way between the US mainland and down under.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos