UA Fleet Age

CPT523 · Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:07 am

A couple questions.

1) How old are 733's and 735's. I just flew Denver-Vancouver on a 733 and the plane was completely falling apart.

2) When was the last airplane delivery for United (ex United Express). Was it one of their 772's or A320's? Any delivery post 9/11? It just doesn't seem like United Airlines has bought any new equipment in ages. Is it safe to consider them the next Northwest?

Your thoughts

Cheers

United787 · Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:19 am

According to AirSafe, it is 11.7 years old, better than both DL and AA!

http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/fleetage.htm

I was just on a UA A319 today and noticed how nice it is. The interior finishes are great!

I wish they would start taking delivery on some more A320 and A319 so they can retire more 737s. I also wish they would upgrade the interiors of the 744 Y Class.

atlaaron · Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting CPT523 (Thread starter):
I just flew Denver-Vancouver on a 733 and the plane was completely falling apart

Oh come on . . . define "falling apart"? I can't imagine it is any worse than some of AA's 757's.

Yflyer · Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:43 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 1):
According to AirSafe, it is 11.7 years old, better than both DL and AA!

That's the average for the entire fleet though. That doesn't answer how old the 733s/735s are. They are the oldest planes in UA's fleet, correct?

I flew on one of their 737s (I don't recall whether it was a 733 or 735) SMF-DEN in Dec. 2005. While I wouldn't go so far as to call it "falling apart" it was certianly showing its age. Certainly nowhere near as nice as the A319s, which I agree are quite nice.

[Edited 2007-04-12 01:51:22]

Viscount724 · Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:35 am

UA's first 737-300, delivered November 1986. It's only 2.5 years older than UA's oldest 747-400.

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Photo © Scott Lindsell

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Photo © Mika B Virolainen - FAP

UA's first 737-500, delivered November 1990:

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Photo © Anne Deus

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Christopher Smay

[Edited 2007-04-12 02:42:16]

aa777sjc · Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:42 am

planespotters.net has fleet lists which answer most of your questions

I may be reading some of the data wrong, but it looks like all the 733's showed up between 1986 and 1990, all the 735's showed up between Nov 1990 and Nov 1992.

They got 6 777's since 9/11 with 2 in 2001 and 4 in 2002. They got about 15 A319's in 2001 and another 8 in 2002.

CV880 · Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:46 am

DL's 738's are better than any of those old birds, but will trade U the 767's for the 777's.

RDUDDJI · Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:06 am

UA has the second youngest fleet among the U.S. majors. Their useful lives don't start to expire until 2014. UA plans to wait a few years until a new round of narrow bodies are developed (see fuel efficiency/composites) before they place a major order. I know everyone love to bash management, but UA holds a great card here and they plan to play it at exactly the right time.

nwafflyer · Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:09 am

And, sure, NW has the dc-9's (best plane in their fleet), but other than that, all planes are pretty new, so why pick on NW? Just because the DC-9's keep going forever, is that a fault of the airline?

adizzy · Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:17 am

See my previous post on UA's 757 Fleet.

Out of 13 flights i have had this year on the 757..... 8 of them have had MX issues! They need the 787 NOW!

atlaaron · Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:31 am

Quoting ADiZzy (Reply 9):
They need the 787 NOW!

I don't think the 787 will replace UA's 757 fleet.

HughesAirwest · Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 8):

And, sure, NW has the dc-9's (best plane in their fleet), but other than that, all planes are pretty new, so why pick on NW? Just because the DC-9's keep going forever, is that a fault of the airline?

The issue is not that the NW's DC-9s or that fact UA's 733s/735s are old, the real issue for the airlines are the economics of operating these less effcient a/c as opposed to buying new more efficient a/c when the new even more effifcient narrow boides are less than 10 years away. I really do not see NW or UA replace their older less efficient ac in significant numbers until the new narrow bodies are made available.

777fan · Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting CPT523 (Thread starter):
1) How old are 733's and 735's. I just flew Denver-Vancouver on a 733

I recently flew a 733 on a BWI-ORD route and agree that they're pretty tired. I try to avoid "older" 737s in general; something about its history of rudder problems gives me a bad vibe. I'll gladly take an A319/20 and absolutely love the power of the 757 but will admit that some of them (in UA's fleet) are in need of a freshening up as well.

777fan

HughesAirwest · Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting ADiZzy (Reply 9):
Out of 13 flights i have had this year on the 757..... 8 of them have had MX issues! They need the 787 NOW!

Is UA going to be the next Alaska Airlines? On Jan 31, 2000 Alaska lost an MD-80 due to MX short cuts. Could UA be deferring maintenance as a way to save money?? I hope not.

On a side note somewhat related. I fly regularly to and from Japan and have noticed that some of their aircraft, even those in the new livery, are in need of a repaint. Looking bad.. eyepopping

Cubsrule · Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:17 pm

One of the problems with the 735s is that there isn't a good Airbus replacement for them. Capacity-wise, the 318 would be an appropriate replacement, but the 190 is a superior airplane in just about every way. With the need to introduce a completely new fleet type to replace them, though, I might look for the 735s to stick around somewhat longer than the 733s (note that the 735s are younger as well).

georgebush · Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:26 pm

UA's 737 fleet and 767 fleet is older but still, not as bad as some of their competetors. I was on a 735 with a brand new interior and the F/A said UA is trying out to see if its worth investing in (according to her). But it seemd 110% better just with the new seats. I told her if Glen cut his salary in HALF they could replace all the 737's with 787's! but again that would be too much to ask of the poor guy. Their 772 fleet is prestine, especially from the view you get in international first!!

CPT523 · Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:39 pm

Thanks for the input guys. With all that being said, yes the airplanes are "tired." The next question is, does UA go Airbus or Boeing with its fleet renewel on the 733's and 735's.

Side note, my seat didn't even have seat cushion when i boarded the aircraft. Ground staff had to find a new one to install. Smile

FriendlySkies · Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:24 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
I might look for the 735s to stick around somewhat longer than the 733s (note that the 735s are younger as well).

Actually I think UA has been slowly replacing them with the 70-seat RJs...quite a few have left the fleet.

georgebush · Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:07 pm

UA doesnt fly 70 seat CRJ's if a route is being flown by UAX on a CR7 or a CR2 its operated by the UAX carriers, mainly OO YV. UA doesnt even operate the 170's those are flown by S5. It would not be in UA best interest to give their 733 and 735 routes to their express carriers.

Quoting CPT523 (Reply 16):
Side note, my seat didn't even have seat cushion when i boarded the aircraft. Ground staff had to find a new one to install.

that is crazy they even had one on hand! Perhaps someone couldnt take the flight any longer and just had to get off... Wink

FriendlySkies · Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 18):
UA doesnt fly 70 seat CRJ's if a route is being flown by UAX on a CR7 or a CR2 its operated by the UAX carriers, mainly OO YV. UA doesnt even operate the 170's those are flown by S5. It would not be in UA best interest to give their 733 and 735 routes to their express carriers.

I know that...but they can still replace mainline flying with contracted regional flying (I don't have numbers so I can't say if it's in their best interest, but I'll assume they wouldn't do it if it wasn't). There has been a huge influx of 70 seaters at UA (not OPERATED by UA...), and I can assure you it's not all for new service.

Tan Flyr · Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:13 am

As been reported in various media over the last few weeks, the Legacy carriers have been flying planes as full as possible and and as many hours daily as possible to finally make a profit on operations.

Now that fares have risen enought o help make those flight ops marginally profitable, perhaps carriers will start pulling a few more birds out of the desert into service to rotate more thru mx for complete checks and need refurbishment.

We can only hope..because you can find examples on any domestic carrier that need a face lift/tummy tuck and a few botox injections ( paint jobs, interior renewals, and audio/ visual upgrades) now!

UAL777UK · Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 1):
I also wish they would upgrade the interiors of the 744 Y Class.

you may get your wish come the end of the year!

[quote=TAN FLYR,reply=20]Now that fares have risen enought o help make those flight ops marginally profitable, perhaps carriers will start pulling a few more birds out of the desert into service to rotate more thru mx for complete checks and need refurbishment[/quote

UA, unless we are talking uneconomical old birds like 762's or 727's, all of which ahve had their day doesn't have any planes in the desert to pull.

N1120A · Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting CPT523 (Thread starter):
I just flew Denver-Vancouver on a 733 and the plane was completely falling apart.

Define "completely falling apart". I doubt the engines were hanging by their paint. If it was an interior issue, that is United, not the airplane.

Quoting United787 (Reply 1):
I wish they would start taking delivery on some more A320 and A319 so they can retire more 737s.

United is in no position to be retiring any domestic mainline capacity.

Quoting Yflyer (Reply 3):
That doesn't answer how old the 733s/735s are. They are the oldest planes in UA's fleet, correct?

No.

Quoting ADiZzy (Reply 9):
Out of 13 flights i have had this year on the 757..... 8 of them have had MX issues! They need the 787 NOW!

One, the 787 is not a replacement for the 752. Two, United's 757s are not all that old. Three, you got unlucky. I have never had a single MX issue on a United 757 besides a cracked windshield in 1992.

Flighty · Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:54 am

This thread seems to be about old interiors rather than worn-out aircraft.

Any jet needs a new interior just about every 10 years. Carriers in the USA often let it slide back to 14 or 16 years, so they only have to do one major refresh in the lifetime of the aircraft.

Anyway, let's talk about worn-out seats... that has nothing to do with Boeing or the 737 really. Instead it's about UA and the seat companies. The 733 and 735 are fine aircraft that will last 25 or 30 years if you take care of them.

CPT523 · Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Quoting Yflyer (Reply 3):
That doesn't answer how old the 733s/735s are. They are the oldest planes in UA's fleet, correct?

No.

No offense, but that doesn't add an ounce of value. What are the oldest planes in UA's fleet then?

CPT523 · Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:26 am

Yes. This post is more about interiors. So, the question is, will UA update their 733 and 735's interiors before they offload them?

gigneil · Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:36 am

UA has 735s that are newer than some of their 320s... the 735 is a reasonably recent variant of the 737.

That being said, yeah, the interiors are a smidge ratty.

NS

flybynight · Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:38 am

Are the 762's and 763's really that uneconomical as suggested above? The NW DC9's areh guzzlers, yes, but to my knowledge the 767's aren't bad.

I think for myself - as a regular UA flier - it would be interesting to see UA look into new aircrafts. I love the 757. Noy so much the 737's (maybe it because I've been on so damn many of them!!).
It's sorta like your car. After a few years you just want something new. The question of affordability of course comes to question.
I think UA might be better off waiting with replacements for the 737's to see what is happening with Boeing and their decision on what to do with a 737 replacement. It seems that Boeing is getting close to making a decision on whether the 737 NG's should be haulted with a brand new airplane (797??) to replace it, or if they will keep modifying the current NG line. Besides, UA isn't exactly swimming in profits.

I think UA should make sure their international fleet has a state-of-the-art interior. I haven't been on a UA 744 in ages, but do they have PTV's through all classes? Also, if the 763's are going to continue flying to Europe, I would love to see PTV's there as well.

United787 · Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 26):
UA has 735s that are newer than some of their 320s

Not true, their newest 735 is from October 1992 and their oldest A320 is from December 1993.

Source: http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/United%20Airlines.htm

georgebush · Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 27):
I think UA should make sure their international fleet has a state-of-the-art interior. I haven't been on a UA 744 in ages, but do they have PTV's through all classes? Also, if the 763's are going to continue flying to Europe, I would love to see PTV's there as well

You are right on sir. I dont believe they have started updating the 744 to international Y configuration yet. They have been working on the 772 for the longest time. The 763 and 744 dont not have PTV's on any of the fleet aircraft in coach. The only UA aircraft with PTV's are the internationally configured 772's which you will occasionally see on a domestic repositioning route.

I dont know if it is budget setbacks that are holding them back or what! But I will tell you one thing, flying LAX-SYD in coach with someone in your lap and absoulutly no PTV except the crooked progector at the front of the cabin, can make for a VERY long 14hrs. Who wants to fly international like this??

gigneil · Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:14 am

My mistake.

filler.

NS

UAL777UK · Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 27):
I think UA should make sure their international fleet has a state-of-the-art interior. I haven't been on a UA 744 in ages, but do they have PTV's through all classes? Also, if the 763's are going to continue flying to Europe, I would love to see PTV's there as well.

they are, the International fleet starts getting the new F Suite and J seats starting in the last quarter of this year. They do not have PTV's in the back of the 747's nor are you likley to see them, at best IMHO you will see overhead monitors positioned throughout the cabin and do away with the horrible screen at the front of the cabin. Not sure when you last flew a 767 of UA's Internationally but they have had PTV, throughout for years!

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 27):
Are the 762's and 763's really that uneconomical as suggested above?

UA dont fly 762's anymore, they were flying the JFK -SFO/LAX routes and were ditched in favour of the 757 PS Service.

georgebush · Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:18 am

And back to this thought for a second...

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 17):
Actually I think UA has been slowly replacing them with the 70-seat RJs...quite a few have left the fleet.

UA has recently (within the last 6 years) purchased a lot of the 319's. This was done when they decided to give TED an all 319 fleet. Its highly possible they replaced some of the 733's 5's with these airplanes.

georgebush · Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 31):
Not sure when you last flew a 767 of UA's Internationally but they have had PTV, throughout for years!

I geuss I havent flown on one of those in Y. My apologies, I do recall now that they upgraded those first to three cabins before they adopted their first suite.

UAL777UK · Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 33):
I geuss I havent flown on one of those in Y. My apologies, I do recall now that they upgraded those first to three cabins before they adopted their first suite.

No worries, they dont actually have the first suite on the 763's at the moment but they are going to get them when the new suites are installed. Not sure what the timetable for all that installation will be i.e. which part of in the international fleet will get it first, maybe others on here know.

ekskycargo370 · Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:35 am

UA have been struggling for years,old shoddy aircraft,they should follow EK's example!

flydreamliner · Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 2):

Oh come on . . . define "falling apart"? I can't imagine it is any worse than some of AA's 757's.

Nothing flying is in sorer shape in terms of its interior than AA's 757 fleet. All this talk of AA buying 787s, they need to overhaul their 757 fleet before they do anything else!

Quoting CPT523 (Reply 16):
Thanks for the input guys. With all that being said, yes the airplanes are "tired." The next question is, does UA go Airbus or Boeing with its fleet renewel on the 733's and 735's.

My guess is if they switched out any 737s for replacements, they'd keep adding A32x's. They don't seem to be in any hurry to let go of those 737s though.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 29):
You are right on sir. I dont believe they have started updating the 744 to international Y configuration yet. They have been working on the 772 for the longest time. The 763 and 744 dont not have PTV's on any of the fleet aircraft in coach. The only UA aircraft with PTV's are the internationally configured 772's which you will occasionally see on a domestic repositioning route.

Well, it's taken them a while to update the 777s because they have so many of them... I agree that the 744s are outdated as can be in Y, and go out of my way to schedule myself on their 772 flights as a result.

They plan to keep those 767s a while longer - and I believe you are not entirely correct to say the 763s are sans PTV in Y, they've been updating them, and if I'm not mistaken, all international market 767s have been updated:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

flybynight · Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:50 am

Correct me if I am wrong, if the 763ER's have PTV's in coach, why not the 744's? If you are flying on a UA 744 you are generally speaking on a long flight over the Pacific. It seems of all the flights that UA has, the 744's would benefit the most from PTV's.
I guess it might be a budget issue.

On a side note, I was surprised to see some recent pictures of LH's A343's and 346's - neither had PTV's in coach.

Also, I thought all international UA 772's had PTV's when delivered from Boeing. I know some of the domestic 777's (like those used to Hawaii) are without PTV's.

Sorry I opened a can of worms here with PTV's!!

[Edited 2007-04-12 21:51:19]

johnclipper · Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:51 am

All international configured B767s and B777s have seatback PTVs in Y class. The domestic/Hawaii B767s and B777s do not.

halls120 · Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 32):
This was done when they decided to give TED an all 319 fleet.

UA's TED fleet flies A320's, not the A319.

Stitch · Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:05 am

UA is refurbishing some of their 757s, even doing so outside of heavy maintenance checks (when they have to tear the plane down to the frame). Last September I flew a UA 757 SEA-IAD that had the new (5.6?) interior and it looked really nice, even though the plane was still in the old grey paint scheme so it had not recently undergone a HMX (otherwise it would have been painted in the new white scheme).

kdeg00 · Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 32):
UA has recently (within the last 6 years) purchased a lot of the 319's. This was done when they decided to give TED an all 319 fleet. Its highly possible they replaced some of the 733's 5's with these airplanes.

TED is an all 320 fleet, with 319s and 320s for mainline. My recollection is that the 735s were going away little by litle.

AADC10 · Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:25 am

As often happens, passengers relate the condition of the cabin to the age of the aircraft. The interiors may be "falling apart" but what is falling apart? The windows shades? The seats? Wall and restroom panels? The carpeting? All of those things can be replaced or refurbished during a "D" check Most of UA's interiors are beat up as all but essential maintenance was deferred during Ch. 11. On the newer aircraft, those kinds of things will be fixed eventually but the components that keep the plane in the air were always properly maintained.

Less work is going into the 733 interiors as they are the oldest planes in the fleet and some of the oldest will be replaced by UAX and delivery of the deferred A320s. The lifespan of an aircraft is considered to be around 25 years so obviously the oldest 733s are heading toward the end of their operational life. Many aircraft can operate well beyond their expected lifespan but fuel efficiency or lack thereof is what is pushing them into retirement. If fuel was not an issue, they could replace everything in the interior and make the plane look brand new.

Flighty · Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:38 am

As an armchair CEO i will say this. It bothers me no end to see a plane with a shoddy interior, worn out F seats, etc. That stuff is so cheap. Just a six figure sum or $1 million and your plane will have another 5 years of beauty and impressing your customers.

Hyatt hotels replace the carpeting when it gets ratty. Not because it will increase revenue, but because Hyatt (as an example) has STANDARDS to UPHOLD. I really wish the airlines would take a signal from that thinking. Go ahead and maintain the product and the experience. Take some pride. It is so cheap compared to fuel, airplanes, employees and what have you.

When people believe your product is better, they will pay more. It works with hotels. Just my 2 cents.

highflyer9790 · Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:17 am

Airbus A319 55 7.1 years On 82 airlines operating this aircraft United Airlines is number 69
Airbus A320 39 10.8 years On 149 airlines operating this aircraft United Airlines is number 106
Boeing 737 90 17.3 years On 303 airlines operating this aircraft United Airlines is number 119
Boeing 747 30 11.6 years On 97 airlines operating this aircraft United Airlines is number 19
Boeing 757 97 14.8 years On 91 airlines operating this aircraft United Airlines is number 56
Boeing 767 35 11.7 years On 106 airlines operating this aircraft United Airlines is number 46
Boeing 777 52 8.5 years On 37 airlines operating this aircraft United Airlines is number 32

http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/United%20Airlines.htm

highflyer

UAL777UK · Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 37):
Correct me if I am wrong, if the 763ER's have PTV's in coach, why not the 744's?

Thats a very good question!

Quoting Flybynight (Reply 37):
I guess it might be a budget issue.

And there is your answer!

jholiiday · Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 44):

Boeing 777 52 8.5 years On 37 airlines operating this aircraft United Airlines is number 32

#32 of what? UA was the Launch customer for the T7.

UA772IAD · Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:15 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 29):
The 763 and 744 dont not have PTV's on any of the fleet aircraft in coach. The only UA aircraft with PTV's are the internationally configured 772's which you will occasionally see on a domestic repositioning route.

763s have PTVs in every Y class seat. The 66XX fleet (domestic and Hawaii flights only) do not have PTVs.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 32):
UA has recently (within the last 6 years) purchased a lot of the 319's. This was done when they decided to give TED an all 319 fleet. Its highly possible they replaced some of the 733's 5's with these airplanes.

TED uses the 320. UA does however have credit, or options (I'm not sure of the correct term) for 12-14 more 319s. I'll check on Unimatic later at work about the 320 delivery schedule to see how many more they have. Interestingly, there is still 1 more 777-200ER on "order", N230UA.

Cubsrule · Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 17):
Actually I think UA has been slowly replacing them with the 70-seat RJs...quite a few have left the fleet.

Quoting Kdeg00 (Reply 41):
My recollection is that the 735s were going away little by litle.

This was true for a while, but it's been over a year since UA retired a 735. The last to be retired was 9716, in January of last year.

Viscount724 · Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 43):
As an armchair CEO i will say this. It bothers me no end to see a plane with a shoddy interior, worn out F seats, etc. That stuff is so cheap. Just a six figure sum or $1 million and your plane will have another 5 years of beauty and impressing your customers.

When NW updated the interiors (new lavatories, seats, overhead bins etc.) on their much older DC-9s in the early 1990s sometime, they looked almost like brand-new aircraft. And the last time I flew on one (about 3 years ago) I was very impressed with its condition, both inside and out, for an aircraft that was probably at least 15 years older than UA's oldest 733.

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