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worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:19 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 48):


TXL-JFK is going to have a real hard time making it on a consistent basis in the winter.

this has been discussed many times before. The DL 757s are PW powered which has better revenue performance than RR powered aircraft. CO already does it to EWR and JFK is several miles shorter than EWR. Whether ideal on a 757 on CO or not, DL couldn't do any worse - and I don't think any other carrier is proposing new TATL service to TXL.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15364
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 50):
CO already does it to EWR and JFK is several miles shorter than EWR.

CO also spends a lot of time stopping at MAN, SNN, or YQX in the winter. As I said, it's doable, but there would be stops.
 
OB1504
Posts: 4016
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 44):
If they went to Bolivia, it'd be VVI. It's a more prosperous part of the country and has most of the oil and gas industry traffic.

What about a triangular ATL-LPB-VVI-ATL routing, like what AA does on some of their Bolivia flights out of MIA?
 
andaman
Posts: 2271
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:29 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting DLBOIFIN (Reply 47):

Andaman, you just found the market for DL from HEL! Seriously, why do th Finns have to always fly thru some European city to get to the USA? AY's HEL-JFK service is clearly designed for Russia & Baltics/Easter European market with such a late departure time (2.20pm). At that time the Finns are already half way through the flight sitting on SK, KL, LH, AF and others flights. Definitely a chance for DL, JFK-HEL on 752 or ATL-HEL on 763. Just target the Finns, and it will be a success!

US-Europe markets seem to be some higher science, but 752 could work on HEL-NYC. And yes, AY's target here is in the Eastern Europe for sure - and who knows in NYC-India in future, if they could make JFK-HEL-DEL/BOM work...
 
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centrair
Posts: 2901
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:19 am

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 10):
Any thoughts on whether any trans-Pacific routes are possible from LAX using 763?



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 26):
DL will begin using 763ERs from LAX-Asia as early as 2008, most likely 2009.

What will be the range of DL's 763ERs once ready for international use?
OZ and AC have used 767s on transpac. OZ used 763ER and AC 762ERs.

Boeing says the max range of a 763ER is 6105nm (FRA-LAX). Is that empty or in actual real life conditions?

If we go by these numbers...
Possible destinations from ATL


Possible destinations from JFK


Possible destinations from CVG


Possible destinations from LAX


Possible destinations from SLC


So All of Europe, parts of Africa, Middle East, East Asia, and South America. If they were to build up a stop at HNL, then more of Asia is accessible.

But I would venture to say that Japan and Korea will be targets from LAX. More routes from JFK and ATL to Easter Europe. But, it seems that Delta wants to go where they can make a mark. So they will expand in Africa and create connections via JFK, LAX and ATL to the rest of the world.

Personally I would like to see LAX-NGO back but only if it can connect LAX-MSP in a timely manner with little pain for getting around LAX.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:52 am

Centrair,
you get the idea. And those range charts were created before knowing what winglets will do for the 763ER. There are dozens of routes that could be candidates for 767 service - and DL likely has only 20 or so available even with some 757 swaps for 767s.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 52):
What about a triangular ATL-LPB-VVI-ATL routing, like what AA does on some of their Bolivia flights out of MIA?

I believe it is precisely because LPB is a high altitude airport that AA does the routing it does.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15364
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:24 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 52):
What about a triangular ATL-LPB-VVI-ATL routing, like what AA does on some of their Bolivia flights out of MIA?

I don't know what value LPB would have to DL. AA grabs a lot of VFR traffic ex-MIA, but I would guess that most of the traffic connecting over MIA is going to VVI.
 
ncelhr
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:53 pm

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:22 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 46):
Quoting Exusair (Reply 43):
NCE ( 757 ) yeah you heard me...NCE to be downgraded. Just a thought.

Possible for the winter only....The summer loads particularly up front are pretty incredible...There are not too many flights out there that sell out the front cabin 2-3 months in advance but NCE almost always does it from mid-June on (and DL even blocks out the discounted Business "I" fares in this market during those times, so people are either paying the high J and D fares, or they are redeeming a hefty 250K miles each for that award ticket in J).

Yes Exusair has to be kidding on this one.  Smile

It is downright impossible to get a seat in any class on that flight in the summer except if:
1. you are ready to part with an extortionate amount of cash, or
2. you purchase it months and months in advance

As for an award ticket in J on that route in the summer? I have to see it to believe it...

Winter time - they could replace the 3xweekly 763 by daily 752, although it might be stretching it...
 
jfk777
Posts: 7507
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:20 am

763ER from LAX have NEVER been used to Asia. In the whole history of 763ER's the only service from the USA or Canada to Asia has been through Vancouver or Seatle to Nagoya, seoul or Peking. The cities of NW America are close enough to North East Asia a 767 is viable. From LAX I have never heard of ANY airline, from either side of the Pacific Ocean, flying across the Pacific Ocean to/from LAX or SFO. 767 are an Atlantic thing and should remain for use to Europe, deep Latin America or Africa.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:08 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 58):
763ER from LAX have NEVER been used to Asia. In the whole history of 763ER's the only service from the USA or Canada to Asia has been through Vancouver or Seatle to Nagoya, seoul or Peking. The cities of NW America are close enough to North East Asia a 767 is viable. From LAX I have never heard of ANY airline, from either side of the Pacific Ocean, flying across the Pacific Ocean to/from LAX or SFO. 767 are an Atlantic thing and should remain for use to Europe, deep Latin America or Africa.

Hey, if DL wanted to start a Trans-Pacific hub in SEA, I'd have no problem with that at all  Smile.
 
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LTU932
Posts: 13725
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:11 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 54):
Boeing says the max range of a 763ER is 6105nm (FRA-LAX). Is that empty or in actual real life conditions?

LAX-FRA is actually 5045 nm still air distance. The 6105 nm range is the stated range with a full passenger load and their bags and a fully fueled aircraft. Payload range as always differs with the actual load and distance of the flight.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 55):
I believe it is precisely because LPB is a high altitude airport that AA does the routing it does.

Correct. An over 13,000 ft high airport will give you heavy weight restrictions when you want to fly to the US with a 757 or any widebody to e.g. MIA (like AA does), though recently the trend is to start more service to VVI, and bypass LPB completely.

[Edited 2007-04-20 22:13:19]
 
jfk777
Posts: 7507
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 59):
if DL wanted to start a Trans-Pacific hub in SEA, I'd have no problem with that at all

Chances of Delta going hubbing in Seattle are about ZERO. LAX is where there is going to be some 777LR international action from what DL's recent press releases have been.
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 61):
Chances of Delta going hubbing in Seattle are about ZERO

Yeah well that's what they said when the rumors went around about Delta expanding in MIA...or did it turn out to be FLL? Or did that just turn out to be a rumor?
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3802
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:19 am

There will be no SEA hub unless DL takes over AS, which clearly isn't in the cards.

There are airports that DL can look to serve both from JFK, ATL and LAX with the B76E.

Look for more routes to come online.
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:46 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 63):
There will be no SEA hub unless DL takes over AS, which clearly isn't in the cards.

There are airports that DL can look to serve both from JFK, ATL and LAX with the B76E.

In your opinion, do you think we will see more growth to Africa? I am not talking just about one route, such as JFK-CAI. I am talking 3-4-5 more routes, such as JFK-CMN, JFK-DKR-NBO, JFK-CAI, ATL-COO-CPT...
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3802
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 64):
In your opinion, do you think we will see more growth to Africa?

I would imagine.

 Smile
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:32 pm

More expansion in Africa is definitely something that will happen for DL, there's just alot of potential. Obviously, JFK-CAI seems to be the most logical next new routes, as well as operating a onestop service from JFK via DKR to NBO, timed to arrive and depart at DKR the same time as the ATL-DKR-JNB flight, to allow pax connection possibilities. CMN is another market that I can see, though I'd expect it to be served from ATL instead of JFK.
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:03 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 61):
Chances of Delta going hubbing in Seattle are about ZERO.

I think it was a joke... Besides, we can always dream  Big grin
 
belizexp
Posts: 274
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:56 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 64):
JFK-CMN

I can see this happening look at SA, LY and JM codeshare agreement bye bye AT hello DL....

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 64):
CAI

Will be back on DL map sooner then you know.....
 
lijnden
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 1:34 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:31 am

I would like to reply to post 45 and 46.

Delta flew many years with L1011 the route Stuttgart > Amsterdam > Atlanta

Further; If the routes to Europe will see expansion, it will be likely that will be done with the Sky Team partner connections in mind. For example routes to most African destinations, unpopular American destinations/countries like THR, BEY, Libya and Algeria will be connected via AF/KL. I think that a KL/NW deal on the routes to/from AMS might also happen for AF/DL, thus more flights for DL to CDG from destinations like MIA, IAD, BOS, MEM.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15364
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 69):
I think that a KL/NW deal on the routes to/from AMS might also happen for AF/DL, thus more flights for DL to CDG from destinations like MIA, IAD, BOS, MEM.

Why haven't they yet done this? Is it just because AF has the metal and DL does not? There would certainly be cost advantages to DL handling some of the US stations, just as NW handles service to BOS, SEA, BDL, and sometimes EWR. Since DL and AF revenue share, there's nothing stopping them.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:02 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 70):
Why haven't they yet done this? Is it just because AF has the metal and DL does not? There would certainly be cost advantages to DL handling some of the US stations, just as NW handles service to BOS, SEA, BDL, and sometimes EWR. Since DL and AF revenue share, there's nothing stopping them.

Because except for BOS, it doesn't make any sense for Delta to operate a route like MIA-CDG or IAD-CDG, given that you already have AF on those routes, and even simpler, those are neither DL hubs nor DL focus cities.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15364
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 71):
and even simpler, those are neither DL hubs nor DL focus cities.

BOS and EWR are not NW focus cities either...
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 72):
BOS and EWR are not NW focus cities either...

But AMS is, which is why they operate these flights. You also gotta consider that NW for the past years, if not decades, has been extremely AMS-concentrated with regards to flights to Europe, and preferred to feed KLM flights to smaller European destinations (smaller being a relative term), whereas DL always has preferred to operate nonstop routes from the US and only limit themselves to a small feeder hub in Europe, be it their former FRA hub, or their partner AF's CDG hub, which for DL never saw even close to the number of flights NW operates into AMS. It's simply two different strategies.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15364
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:26 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 73):
You also gotta consider that NW for the past years, if not decades, has been extremely AMS-concentrated with regards to flights to Europe, and preferred to feed KLM flights to smaller European destinations (smaller being a relative term), whereas DL always has preferred to operate nonstop routes from the US and only limit themselves to a small feeder hub in Europe, be it their former FRA hub, or their partner AF's CDG hub, which for DL never saw even close to the number of flights NW operates into AMS. It's simply two different strategies.

True. However, there are always going to be folks who need to connect over CDG to get to the Middle East, Africa (in particular; AF has quite a strong African network), or smaller destinations in central and eastern Europe. And where that market exists, DL and AF might enjoy some practical advantages from operating the flights on DL metal rather than AF metal. The carrier that actually flies the flight doesn't matter.
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: Future Delta 767-300er Routes

Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:36 am

Expect to see a daily JFK-CAI-JFK B763 service from S08.

Horus

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